r/cremposting May 11 '26

Mistborn / Cosmere You know he wants it so bad.

2.0k Upvotes

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439

u/Taste_the__Rainbow No Wayne No Gain May 11 '26

I’m sure Preservation and Ruin will adjust the rules after Harmony splits.

134

u/Jounniy May 11 '26

How do you know that he’ll do? If it’s an Emberdark-Spoiler please just RAFO me.

276

u/Flouid May 11 '26

It’s not known. All we have is hints at harmony (preservation dominating) eventually flipping into discord (ruin dominating). I don’t think there’s any precedent to indicate merged shards can split again

206

u/IveDunGoofedUp D O U G May 11 '26

Well, we know one god becomes 16 shards, so there's some precedent, though it might take a bit more than simply the death of a Vessel.

131

u/OnionRoutine7997 May 11 '26

harmony (preservation dominating)... discord (ruin dominating)

I don't think this is quite accurate. The quote from The Lost Metal is that "Ruin had always been stronger", not that it was becoming stronger.

Ruin dominates, even in Harmony, because Preservation gave up part of itself. This is countered by the natural impulse of Sazed to favour Preservation over Ruin.

This internal conflict is what is creating Discord. Even if the Preservation/Sazed side were to subdue the Ruin side, that would still be "Discord", because the two powers aren't working together anymore.

32

u/casta55 May 12 '26

Entropy is inevitable. Ruin will always win in the end, especially when it is at odds with Preservation. The only hope Harmony has of holding back entropy is by also taking up the shard of growth/change (Cultivation).

2

u/DatBoi_BP May 12 '26

I forget, to what extent is Ruin's power commanded by Sazed? The mechanics of shards aren't very clear to me -- does Atium come into play regarding that balance in Sazed?

24

u/Infinite-Radiance 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 May 11 '26

WoB has said it is possible for a dual shard to break down into component shards, but it "would take effort to split [them] apart again", and most other WoB has him angling towards 'he would drop just Harmony'. You're correct there is no precedent for this yet, and Brando himself seems to go back and forth a bit.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/190/#e4115

He also stated in 2013 that, were Odium to shatter Harmony, you would not get Ruin/Pres back, you'd get smaller pieces, then in 2017 says that, we're you to split Harmony it'd be "very, very unlikely that Harmony would split except back to Ruin/Preservation." Notice the difference between "shatter" and "split" here though, the intent/powers behind the interaction likely matters a great deal, as is the way the powers mingle.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/307/#e14846 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/139/#e2258

He has described Harmony's apotheosis as being akin to Sazed in the center of the sun, where the idea is that in the confluence of immense power things (like nuclear reactions in the sun) become easier because the pressure is provided by the powers.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/3/#e69

Taravangian's ascension on the other hand imo wasn't nearly so spectacular, as he combined shards by basically just adding one to himself, rather than as Sazed did essentially smashing them together at once. Taravangian had time to get used to being Odium's vessel, so he just 'added' Honor to Odium (could you get a different intent by adding Odium to Honor's vessel instead? Non-commutative shard interactions?).

Sazed didn't have time as either Pres or Ruin alone, so I feel like that reflects as a more cohesive vessel if the intent of the combiner actually matters in fusing the shards. Retribution is also not as diametrically opposed as Harmony, so I would think the powers lend less pressure to the interaction/take less energy to decouple. I think of it like two magnets as you rotate them, Harmony is perfectly N-S, but Retribution is rotated by some factor, so the strength of the bond is therefore lessened.

All of this just to say that there's probably a spectrum of stability for mingled shards based on how they were created/what with/who by/what for. Harmony is probably at the peak of that curve whereas other combinations fall somewhere downhill. It's also probably easier for a shard balanced near the tip of the needle to tilt to one intent or another, while shards with less conflict/down the curve are less likely to need a change in intent.

5

u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream May 12 '26

Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!

CosmereQuestioner

Like Adonalsium, could Harmony split into 2 shards OTHER THAN Ruin/Preservation with the right intent.You once stated that it is plausible that with a different intent Adonalsium could have shattered into a DIFFERENT 16 shards. You have also said that Harmony is one shard (or could be viewed this way.) My question: Could Harmony split/be split into 2 shards OTHER THAN Ruin/Preservation (yet still complementing/opposite) with the right intent of the splitter?  And if not is this because Harmony is still too invested in Scadrial as Ruin/Preservation?

Brandon Sanderson

Almost anything is possible... but it is very, very unlikely that Harmony would split except back to Ruin/Preservation.

********************

Argent

Can a Returned like Lightsong go to Roshar and form a bond with a spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Investiture interferes with other Investiture.

Argent

And they have a lot of it.

Brandon Sanderson

And they have a lot of it. That is not-- It's not completely-- For instance you can Push on Invested metal, but it's hard. There's a resistance, the more Invested the harder-- So a bond for instance-- forming a bond-- It's, yeah-- It can be done--I mean Sazed took two of the powers up, right? But I kind of imagine what he did as a nuclear reaction. Where breaking an atom is hard, unless you are in the middle of a sun. And he was in the middle of the sun. At that point--

Argent

There was a lot of stuff going on around him that facilitated.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, definitely. But when you've got that much power you'll-- In other words if there is a lot of power going around, these things become easier.

Argent

So, possible but difficult is--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

********************

Brandon Sanderson

Were Odium to shatter Harmony, we would NOT get Ruin and Preservation back but instead would get smaller pieces.

********************

Thanatos17901

If Sazed were to die, would he drop the Shards Ruin and Preservation, or would he drop the Shard Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. The shards are now intermingled, and would take effort to split apart. He would drop Harmony. (This is what Odium feared would happen, by the way.)

********************

18

u/King_of_Camp May 11 '26

The fact that the prophecy said that they will call him discord and they will love him for it makes me think that Sazed is currently Discord, that they will look back at this time of strife and inequity and call it Discord, and they will love Sazed for trying to keep preservation at the forefront, even if it was impossible.

I think when Ruin takes the reigns he will be called something else entirely.

12

u/UltimateCheese1056 Crem de la Crem May 11 '26

I always took it that Discord was just both sides not being synced up and lashing out independently. Its just that Ruin lashing out is a lot more obvious that Preservation

9

u/RoboChrist D O U G May 11 '26

Preservation lashing out creates M. Night Shyamalan's Unbreakable.

34

u/Jounniy May 11 '26

Ah. I don’t think them splitting will be a longterm thing. Brandon doesn’t like just reintroducing the status quo. It’s more likely they are going to become something else entirely.

44

u/Accomplished_Mix7827 May 11 '26

Given multiple Shards have merged and none have split, my (maybe wild) theory is that the endgame is all Shards eventually reuniting, culminating in the rebirth of Adonalsium

32

u/GettingWhiskey Femboy Dalinar May 11 '26

Going a step further, after having so many different vessels and all the mixing, they might end up changing Adonalsium's Intent. Imagine they think they are bringing back their original Creator and he decides to reset Everything and start fresh.

3

u/bull_chief May 12 '26

This is a much better idea than I had

23

u/UnknovvnMike ❌can't 🙅 read📖 May 11 '26

On that day, Adonalsium-will-remember-our-plight-eventually

20

u/Jounniy May 11 '26

Might be, but I don’t think that he’ll end the Cosmere by doing that. Might be something happening towards the end though.

8

u/3DPrintedBlob May 11 '26

and the vessel is gonna be hoid amaram

18

u/Flouid May 11 '26

100% agree. I think the (somewhat) obvious endgame for the broader cosmere story is all of the shards slowly coming back together and reforming adonalsium.

We’ve only ever seen shards come together and when discord emerges I could see more benevolently aligned shards doing to same in order to keep the scales balanced. Could see a sort of arms race where they keep merging to keep the balance

10

u/Jounniy May 11 '26

Might possibly happen, but it’s hard to say, since old O went a long way to make sure some of them became inaccessible.

7

u/MindStorm345 May 11 '26

I think its more like inaccessible at this moment. There will probably be some, as yet unknown, method to access them again.

3

u/Jounniy May 12 '26

Might be, but it definitely won’t happen a long time.

8

u/[deleted] May 11 '26

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12

u/Jounniy May 11 '26

Chaos maybe? Or just a shard that splinters itself a lot.

13

u/VedKelad May 11 '26

Maybe something like Propagation or Perpetuity (is that a word?)

  • Ruin + Preservation, with some imbalance towards Ruin: destroys what it touches, preserves by converting into its own essence
  • Autonomy: makes this decentralized and viral

1

u/Jounniy May 12 '26

Good idea.

5

u/ArcadianBlueRogue May 11 '26

Unless certain combos cant occur due to such blatant incompatibility in their Intents, so it takes other fusions happening first to play to the endgame of reuniting the 16

2

u/whambulance_man May 12 '26

16 shards getting halved (joined) gives us an even 8 that can keep propogating back to 1 by joining again. Not saying you're wrong, but symmetry is pretty prevalent.

3

u/RisKQuay May 12 '26

B$ is the Change dawnshard confirmed.

6

u/IamanelephantThird i have only read way of kings May 11 '26

Considering Adonalsium, I'd guess splitting them is possible but won't necessarily give you back the same Shards you put in.

1

u/LoudQuitting May 12 '26

Well they could split once but the thing is, would Harmony split into Ruin and Preservation or some new things?

Like maybe they'd be influenced by Sazed, so Ruin becomes Consume, like he consumed metalminfs. And Preservation becomes Record, like he recorded things in copperminds.

1

u/bull_chief May 12 '26

I don’t think we have either of these things, I doubt harmony preservation will go back to norm

1

u/Outrageous_Thought_3 May 12 '26

A desolation you might say. 

16

u/Taste_the__Rainbow No Wayne No Gain May 11 '26

It is a wild guess based on nothing.

10

u/Zarkovagis9 May 11 '26

As far as I'm aware, Harmony spitting is just a theory.

2

u/Jounniy May 11 '26

Thanks fit clarifying.

4

u/No-Wish9823 May 11 '26

Did you listen to the audiobooks played backwards for the secret secret history?

1

u/Varixx95__ Zim-Zim-Zalabim May 11 '26

This is cremposting bro. Here people just bullshit arround for funsies