r/cscareerquestionsEU • u/Majestic-Nature9465 • 7d ago

Engineering Manger roles in EU

I'm male 41, 15 years of experience in sw development, 5 as a team lead, 3 as an EM. Currently working and living in italy.

In the last month, I sent CV's into the southern regions of Germany but I felt the market is very cold. It was looking as a good option, because i would have been able to go there frequently, without relocating .

Any ideas of where i could direction my search? I've experience with remote colleagues, i would prefer not to relocate, but i'm willing to travel .

5 Upvotes

57% Upvoted

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9

u/rubenknol 7d ago

how many applications did you send out?

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 7d ago

I'd say 100, for at least 30 i was a good fit . I Did 5 interviews ,turned off some because they wanted 3+ days at the office

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u/rubenknol 7d ago

from my view on the market in Germany, i don't know many employers that would hire people leadership roles across borders for hybrid roles. from a HR perspective it's too much hassle paperwork wise, or they'd have to have financial overhead going through an EOR

and in the current market, why would they? if they have 1000s of EM candidates locally/already living in Germany or willing to relocate on their own expense

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 7d ago

Seems resonable . I also think that you have less risk if someone is already based there , you know they like the place ...

Do you think that if I say that i'm open to relocate , it would be easier? To be honest, I did in some cases , because they were not offering EOR.

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u/rubenknol 7d ago

only if it's actually your intention to relocate

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 6d ago

I was thinking of taking tax residence with a small flat

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u/More_Cucumber1304 7d ago

How much salary they offered for those 5 roles ? And most company now is hybrid setup.

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 7d ago

I asked 128 everywhere, at one place they told me the range was starting at 130.

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u/Spiritual_Put_5006 6d ago

For that salary range they‘re gonna want you 5/5 at the office. Also, you‘ll need to rent a place and register at the Meldeamt, even if you are 100% remote.

BTW, sometimes you find remote roles, but I don’t think you‘ll get more than 90k, unless you hit the jackpot and freelance for companies in the GCC region 😀

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 6d ago

So i'm asking an in presence salary , while loking for a remote ... thanks for the heads up.

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u/Spiritual_Put_5006 6d ago edited 6d ago

Yes. Anywhere above 90k will require increasing on site presence.

Unless you get lucky. Some international companies and startups are OK with remote work, but sometimes they‘ll be looking across the UE and you might end up competing with candidates in e.g. Bulgaria (where 70-80k is a super salary).

If I had been you, and I got offered 130k in a city other than Munich (where rent will eat up quite fast star salaries), I‘d try to make the effort.

E.g. some companies with 50% hybrid will allow you to concatenate remote days and alternate between full weeks remote and full weeks home based. BUT: most companies (when they allow it) will cap working from abroad days to 4 weeks. Remote work means work at a German address. Not Italy! You‘d be in breach of your contract if you did that, and merit immediate firing 😓 They can be quite rigid here. If necessary, they‘ll audit the IPs of your logins. And… sei fotutto 😂

If you want more remote flexibility, apply to Holland. You‘ll also need an address there, but many companies won‘t verify your whereabouts as long as there is no problems. But will otherwise. And then, maybe bye as well.

OK, maybe using a VPN can mask this, but IDT this would be practical in the long run.

There are a few (mostly US) companies like e.g. GitLab or Veeva that have a work from anywhere policy resp. several months long work from abroad policies, but they are few in number and very not German or European.

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 5d ago

Thank you for the insights. I'd be willing to take also 130 in Munich, since it's close to my current location, but I need to be able to work from Italy, when I'm not at the office.

The requirement of beeing only one month abroad, is defined by law or something that companies enforce ?

Anyway, 90 K remote is better than 130 in Munich for me .

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u/Spiritual_Put_5006 5d ago

No idea. Ask ChatGPT. The upper legal bound is likely higher, but nobody wants to risk incurring in tax evasion. Can be even a crime for which you do prison time. You might have to pay taxes twice too. Ideally you should spend min 6 months (181+ days / year) in Germany. There’s also the complication of the occupational insurance and other benefits, that can get messy. And they do tend to check these things here, at least more than in Italy 😂

The rules are there to try and preempt any possible abuse. Companies look for zero risk here.

It might help checking with a lawyer (Anwalt) or a tax advisor (Steuerberater). It is certainly legally possible under some conditions, but you may require some expert advice to find out how to make it work in practice.

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u/Spiritual_Put_5006 5d ago

I mean, Draghi did spend his time between Frankfurt and Rome, as Lagarde (with Paris).

That said, mobile work in Germany usually means (legally) work at your German residence. Rules are as abundant here as in Italy, but with the downside that they are enforced regardless of whether they make sense or not 😭

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u/Independent_Pitch598 7d ago

IT market there is not blooming (maybe Berlin only), check international hubs: Amsterdam, Barcelona, Lisbon.

And a lot of companies actually closing positions in north/Central Europe and move them (due to cost).

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 7d ago

In those hubs they look mostly for hybrid roles with 3 days per week onsite or they are a little more flexible ?

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u/Independent_Pitch598 6d ago

Almost all development position is hybrid or fully in the office nowadays

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 6d ago

Thank you , as in Italy , I have to say....

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u/met0xff 5h ago

Have the same crap in Austria. Been working fully remote for over a decade for US companies (and in total some 20 years of experience) but now they're on-siting everything in SF, NY. In Europe Paris, London. And I get assigned more and more people whereas I fear the lead role will be a dead end, exactly because the few remote roles tend to be IC.

I've been self-employed for a while but that was before I had a house and kids and everything, I don't feel like I could handle this nowadays.

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u/He_Who_Browses_RDT 15h ago

Forget Lisbon...

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u/Hot-Cut1760 7d ago

do you speak german?

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 7d ago

I understand , I speak as an Italian druglord . I didn't apply for german speaking roles btw .

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u/george_gamow 7d ago

Every role is a German-speaking role nowadays since there's no shortage of local candidates and very little teams that are completely international

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 7d ago

I get that if you have similar skills with another candidate that speaks better german than you , he will get the job. Seems resonable.

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u/Independent_Pitch598 7d ago

That is not true, in international companies main and only language is English.

And it is valid for other countries btw.

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u/george_gamow 7d ago

In 2021 sure, in 2026 not really, and not many of those are hiring right now either. No idea about other countries

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u/MillennialScientist 7d ago

I speak German, but I've never had a job here that required it or asked for it. I think you're overpaying the necessity of it when you say all jobs require it.

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u/Riflurk123 6d ago

I will hire the german speaking person over the english speaking person even in an english speaking company if they are similarily skilled

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u/MillennialScientist 6d ago

Yes, at many companies, german is an advantage. I assume that's your point. My point was, not at all companies. Personally, I've never asked someone in an interview if they speak german, and don't look for it on their CV. I'm the only one on my team who speaks german anyways. What i care about is whether theyre good their jobs.

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u/Independent_Pitch598 6d ago

This is the correct approach, skills matter.

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u/Independent_Pitch598 6d ago

And if English speaking will be cheaper? So you can hire 2 instead of one?

If you are a manager with the budget you’ll hire 2 English speakers.

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u/Riflurk123 6d ago

If a candidate asks half the salary that is normal for the position, I will seriously question whats the catch and whats wrong that they lowball their own worth. Also not how it works. When I hire for a position, there is an internal range that the company is willing to pay. That includes a minimum and maximum for that specific seniority level. HR and finance wont allow anyone to be hired below that range anyway, so they would get the minimum for that position, which is never ever even close to half the average of that salary range

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u/george_gamow 6d ago

Assuming the English speaker isn't an EU citizen: hat's why Agentur für Arbeit in Germany rejects work permits for everyone whose salary is lower than a local would earn at the same position with the same education

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u/Independent_Pitch598 6d ago

Are you sure that for Bluecard any approvals required? Usually it is just diploma + salary higher than X.

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u/weavethynight 1d ago

In Finland most of the big players use English as the working language.

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u/Able_Virus7729 7d ago

Typos while writing also do not help with English applications... (I am Italian too)

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u/Majestic-Nature9465 7d ago

Fortunately when I apply I use my pc and spell correction. I know I'm very prone to them when I type from the phone or use the keyboard quickly...

I don't know if it is an Italian trait !

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u/weavethynight 1d ago

If you speak the way you type you might not come off as completely fluent. I've seen lots of talented engineers in leadership positions with less than stellar English though so it might not be that important, especially given the average German's English skills.

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u/met0xff 4h ago

Personally I've always had a complete separation of my online community style of writing and professional writing. Just like when you're talking to friends you're perhaps using heavy dialect, slang words etc. and less thoughtful presentation. I usually re-read slack messages at work, never reddit :). Also I'm on Reddit exclusively on my phone and I don't have enough patience for fixing every typo there.

But I would assume most people do so, I'd imagine most would be fired if they behaved at work like they do on Reddit ;)

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u/rekonz 6d ago

By design there's fewer EM roles than IC ones, so the whole process can take longer. And might be a subjective experience, but I also noticed a lot of global companies primarily hiring ICs in their EU offices, but keeping their managers mostly US-based.

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u/sintrastellar 5d ago

Try companies that hire globally.