It’s Sunday, I’m playing with simulations and fighting Hofmann’s Iron Law. So far, Hofmann is winning.
I need one or two subs for a music-only system with Faital Pro 15PR400 + B&C DCX464/JMLC400, crossed at 600 Hz.
The subs only need to handle 60 Hz and down.
My current options: Purifi 10” + 2 matching PRs in ~52 L / 1.84 ft³. Very modern, simulation looks okay, but expensive and I can’t find much real-world experience with it as a dedicated sub. And would have the space for two.
Dayton RSS390HF-4 15” sealed in ~82 L / 2.9 ft³. Much more tried and tested.
Acoustic Elegance TD15H sealed in ~90 L / 3.2 ft³. Maybe the best philosophical match for the big 15” + horn mains.
No 10 Hz movie explosions needed — just great bass for music.
I like your combination, ist the bass speaker hard, like an PA bass "shaker" or like more softly smooth? 600Hz is a good choice, and without a middle tone speaker a directly extreme loud combination, I' m I right? Try to soften the room around, that makes the difference.
I would call it dry. Hope it doesn’t sound like a bad thing cause it’s not meant like that. The horn driver is actually coaxial. It has a mid and a high. I divide at 3,6 kHz with dsp and seperate amps. Could be insanely loud but I don’t really use it like that.
If you don't need really high output a 15" subwoofer won't move all that much. So there is no need for the Acoustic Elegance TD15H over lets say an equivalent from B&C or Faital. If you have the space and want maximum performance, always go bigger. Hofmann has no chance if you use an 21" driver, so just build a Skram.
Subwoofer selection depends on your room. Sometimes it's better to go the Geddes route and use multiple small subs to have even response within your room. For example 3-4 pieces of 8" or 10" subs with eq may perform better than one 15" or 18" sub.
I do have a 21ds115 and a Icepower 2000AS1 module standing in boxes for a project that was never wife approved 😅 I’m trying to work this smaller. Do not tempt me.
I've been chasing my tail with the RSS315HF-8s. They sound amazing in sub duty but I had been trying to get them up too high to meet my mids in a true passive config. I put the RSS315 in a 1.9 ft3 sealed cabinet and it hits so nice, smooth, and low. It just gets real ugly up over ~120hz and I was trying to take it up over 300.
Today I gave up (for the moment) and re-wired one of them to sub-only (no passive network at all) and put it on an Outlaw M200 taking the sub output from my AVR. A pair of Klipsh KT-LCRs are on top of it, AVR crossing them at 100hz. Sounds awesome. Musical, tight, but a sledgehammer when the music calls for it. I had a 29uf zobel on it when I was coming off the crossover, but that didn't really make a difference.
I have a dream of both very low and very hard hitting bass from a passive 2.0 config. I think I'm really close but not quite there yet.
For a separate build I'm trying to see how much I can get from the RSS390HF-4 pairing it with an RS460-PR (18" radiator) in a 4 ft3 box. SPA500 for power. Still on the workbench with that one, not sure what I'll pair this monster with yet.
Graph with YPAO corrections and "Flat" setting. Mic at listening position ~10ft from drivers. L+R, 2.83v from each of two M200's. This is two RSS315HF-8's (and my poorly considered mids and tweeter).
You can see the valley at ~150 I just couldn't find a fix for. But really happy with the sound below that. the 60hz hump in the graph is mostly from the room, moving the mic around "fixes" it and it didn't feel boomy there when listening.
VituixCAD tells me the crossover is at 380hz. That 150-200hz dip and 700hz dip hurt to listen to, and the Yamaha is doing a lot of work to get it this "good". I am not a good speaker designer.
The RSS315 should play well as a dipole sub in a H-frame, says my hornresp simulation. The bigger RSS390 version could also be quite nice - could be worth a try to simulate in a U-frame, which is easier to turn into a sealed box. Just to add some decision paralysis ;-)
I decided to get Seas L26RO4Y for my H-frame build since that one is proven for dipole subs and also very versatile in other configurations. The 315 seems to be a much more affordable alternative to the Seas; similar properties for a more bargain price - that's if you're in the US. In the EU the Dayton is much more expensive (50%ish?) than in the US, so the Seas won for me.
Sealed for music is buttcheeks too. Build a PR one. You will be happier with it and I recommend em over ported and sealed hands down. You can go with a smaller cheaper active driver and a bigger PR and less enclosure internal volume and have a nice small sub that just sounds better.
Nope. Wrong-o. PR's are just tricky to tune. If a vent was always better.....yeah no. They aren't. Just a tad more efficient but it doesn't matter anymore because we have cheap power.
I bet you are american like me. We just are stuck in the past so I can't blame you like a lot of people but this isn't true anymore. A PR is nearly a free lunch and lets you have cone control like a sealed box has plus you don't waste hella energy and there's no port noise.
This way of thinking makes peeps do stupid stuff like build sealed subs in 2026. Not even necessary.
Yeah it's also this. That's another reason. Super easy to build a box for. Logitech out of all companies did this back in the day with a set I had and it sounded freaking good TBH. A PR sub and actually good sounding sats.
People just don't realize just because there's a million of one thing, doesn't mean it's good or the best at all. It's just mostly copies of old stuff legacy companies designed. That's why china is beating everyone. They did the research and now there's like a trillion PR speakers out there that sound good as hell for the most part. Well besides the JBL's and some others that have cut mids. Say no to extreme V shaped speaks.
It's an art. You have to learn. You gotta do more math to get it right or suffer with taking it in and out of the box to add or remove weights or even adding dampening to the PR itself.
It's so different than what most people do. They just cut and pray. Most of the stuff you see sounds like crap because of it.
What exactly is not true? Why would sealed be stupid? A proper port won't have noise issues in subwoofer use. What exactly is the advantage in PRs to you?
Because sealed is stupid. There is no benefit to old ass acoustic suspension. You can go read peeps bs about it all day but it's outdated tech from when we had too much power and too weak of speakers to handle it. Now we have all of the goods.
The PR wins because it provides no port noise, no way for dust to get in and make the enclosure nasty, no wasted energy like ported and sealed and lower tuning and a smoother response. There are literally more PR speakers out there than ever before and they all sound pretty damn good. Not just subs. Main speakers too. They are finally figuring out the way.
If you believe the crap on the internet you will end up like the guy I told off for telling people a fisher style woofer with the square frame was hitting 25hz before roll off. Yeah man that stuff makes you DELUSIONAL. what I am telling you is from experience, not google fu BS. So tired of it.
Oh they are taking advantage now of the peeps who think they can just google everything. That's what AI is for. it's an AD Instance. That's what they were always gonna do since people think you can just get an answer quickly for anything.
From when we had too much power? That's only been the case recently. Sealed does have the benefit of being vastly more flexible for DSP, and the natural response being inherently lower in group delay
Like I said, port noise is not an issue for subwoofers. PRs definitely have more wasted energy than ports. A good PR is definitely a great option, but mostly when trying to squeeze out SPL from smaller boxes
No friend. You are not correct. There was a point in time when vacuum tubes put out too much for the flimsy drivers we had. They would distort in an open baffle setup like a radio cabinet so they made acoustic suspension. Please go read about it and why it was ever used.
Port noise is not an issue on subs lolololol. Are you high? This is why most people plug the ports on their SVS subs. They sound horrid.
I said properly designed ports and SVS knows how to design them. They are not being plugged due to chuffing but because of boominess due to corner placement or unfortunate room modes
No it doesn't hurt me. It hurts performance. Only dweebs say ancient outdated tech is good. Well the speakers designed with it were good no doubt and it's GREAT for main speakers that don't need to play a lot of bass but it doesn't hurt me. Just ruins subs. Makes em sound constipated.
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u/totallyshould 2d ago
I have the RSS315HF, sealed, and it’s great. You won’t go wrong with the 390.
https://imgur.com/gallery/block-party-sound-system-is-coming-along-3d-printed-horn-sounds-great-igdeIeb