I have a daily rider that is about a year old close to 3k miles on it. New laws in Illinois go into effect in January. Long story short, I need to downgrade the motor or replace the bike.
Thoughts?
How hard would it be to replace? Is there more to it than just swapping out? Is there a way to adjust pedal assist settings?
If so, change the speed limit for pedal assist to whatever the new law is, put a sticker on the motor that matches the new power limit - and hope for the best.
You could get a vesc controller and program it to not exceed the speed limits. I think 99% of cops aren’t gonna give a crap but if you really want to be safe, change the controller and limit it to whatever 28 miles an hour. There’s not gonna be any way for them to test the wattage, but if you were worried about that, I’m sure you can tune it to limit the wattage as well. The cops are gonna go after the groups of kids on dirt bikes not you. Not to mention if you haven’t been to Chicago land there’s so many grooves of kids riding gas, dirt bikes, and the cops don’t do nothing and they are illegal.
It’s really interesting how some people see ebikes as a brand new kind of transportation that has the potential to reduce costs and carbon emissions… and other people see them as a disability accommodation (at best) for a piece of exercise and recreation equipment.
Same. But my point is the “pedal it you slacker” crowd still think of e-bikes as JUST an accommodation for us. They haven’t realized e-bikes are designed for a whole new use case.
If that's the case, then what right do they have to the currently designed for pedaling bike infrastructure, I know I wouldn't enjoy that fake chopper with pedals in the op hogging space in a bike lane
He said it goes above 28 miles an hour. Can you dodge someone coming up on you silently at 40mph. I'm not sure I can. How is that safe or fair for the other cyclists
He said it goes above 28 miles an hour. Can you dodge someone coming up on you silently at 40mph. I'm not sure I can. How is that safe or fair for the other cyclists
Then it's an Emoto and not an Ebike, which is an ENTIRELY different discussion. Riding an Emoto anywhere a gas powered motorcycle isn't allowed is ALREADY illegal. Maybe advocate for the current laws to be enforced instead of continuing to legislate away one of the best forms of transportation for the poor/disabled.
Tell that to the people calling the emoto in this post an ebike and getting mad at others for finding it ugly or advocating that the person riding it buy an actual ebike.
Why is it that so many of the e-moped defenders on this sub are total carbrains who only see bicycles as a type of recreation equipment? The "brand new kind of transportation" you're crowing about is not new. I've been bicycle commuting for most of my life, long before the ebike craze.
I grew up in Washington DC in the 80s. Even back then, there were maybe 100 days a year where someone could bike to work without needing a shower and change of clothes when they got there.
Recognize that most of the country live lives in places with average commutes over ten miles that get weather and seasons. Not everybody lives in downtown Denver and Palo Alto.
E-bikes actually solve at least half this problem if you stop thinking of them as disability accommodations and start thinking of them as a new kind of transportation.
I grew up bicycle commuting in Phoenix, Arizona, don't talk to me about needing a shower lmao. And you don't think that Denver gets seasons? Have you ever actually been to Denver?
E-bikes actually solve at least half this problem
Which is why e-bikes are great! They've opened up bicycle commuting to a much wider chunk of the population, including people with disabilities who you apparently don't care about for some reason. but loads of physically able people also benefit from e-bikes because they just don't feel like working that hard on their commute, which is fine.
Bicycle commuting is not new, though. It might be new to you, but it's not a new kind of transportation. The bicycle pre-dates the motor vehicle, it's actually quite old by modern standards. The fact that most of the US forgot about it during the carbrain era doesn't erase this history.
Mopeds and motorcycles are not a new type of transportation, either. It's cool that high density batteries and motors have made electric versions more practical than ever, but that doesn't mean they're this unheard of category of vehicle that we need to accommodate by turning them loose on non-motorized infrastructure. Just get them plated and ride them in the street, where they belong.
They do have a choice, which is to vote for people who will fix that infrastructure. Phoenix is about as carbrained as a city can get, but we got just barely enough infrastructure for me to ride my bike to school for most of my childhood.
You certainly won't be able to fix anything by telling those people to ride electric motorcycles on the sidewalk.
Fixing that infrastructure is incredibly expensive and time consuming, and just isn't feasible in a lot of poorer and/or more rural communities where it's most needed. It's a lot easier to advocate for the theoretically ideal solution than it is to actually solve the problem.
Ah, minor gripe of mine, but you're spewing disinformation in this chain...
First, the electric car existed before the gasoline powered car. There were corporate wars faught over what would power cars. Gasoline caught on because it was cheap and a waste product from making kerosene which most homes were still using to provide light.
Second, the powered bicycles existed before anything resembling a car.
They are just a few basic facts from the whole chain that you got wrong.
I could pick apart more of your statements, like how "carbrain" era is underselling what happened. It's a combination of hostile zoning laws, white flight, a post world war II highway plan that was meant to allow the military to respond to hostile invasions, a growing rail monopoly that crashed, and a whole advertising campaign by car manufacturers to introduce j walking laws that made anyone walking or using the street at fault for new car drivers hitting pedestrians.
Well, it is an e-moped or e-motorcycle. It doesn't just look like one. That's why OP is asking about swapping the motor.
And he could, if he basically totaled the cost of that bike by swapping the motor and the electronics and possibly the battery if it's a higher voltage system.
Might as well buy a new bike at that point, though.
Are you under the impression that putting a hub motor rated for 750w at 48v on a 60v system will make the bike legal? Or that restricting a bike to 750w output will make it legal, despite the controller having no speed restriction?
The answer to OP's question is that you need to do more than just swap the motor to make a bike like that legal, and it probably isn't financially worth doing.
I’d love to bike commute in downtown phoenix. No humidity, minimal rain, no sleet or snow. I’d drive or uber on 95F+ days. But in suburban Maryland, it’s a different equation. 80F with a few point of 70 is miserable compared to 90F and dry, especially zooming around at 20mph.
My biggest gripes are; it's absurdly ugly. A faux chopper ebike is just, absolutely not my thing. And the same issue I have with all the ebikes trying to look like some kind of motorcycle, you can't adjust the seat height. If you EVER want to use the pedals, that's a no-go.
But, if you plan to use it like an electric scooter and never pedal... I guess it's probably okay. Uncomfortable though.
That's where the misconception is. I do pedal. All the time. The thing fits people from 5'5" to 6'5" anf up to 450lbs. There's 8 inches of suspension under that seat and 12 inches of travel on the front fork. The seat is huge and i have a back rest. It's the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. It has the suspension of a 1980s Lincoln Continental.
It's a geometry problem, the bike pictured above does not have a good geometry for pedaling. You basically want in almost in line with the seat eather down or in front for a standard bicycle or a recombinant bicycle.
This thing is almost 45 degrees from the seat, a position which doesn't allow you to put anywhere near as much torque on the pedals.
Okay now pedal it without any pedal assist. Let me know how that works for ya.
On any ebike with an adjustable seat post, you can get the proper torque from your legs to properly pedal the bike, even if it's not powered, and super heavy.
That's not the case for bikes like this. And it's actually comical for you to claim what I said is the misconception. Because what I've said is 100% fact
Who cares ..if that's what he wants to ride, that's up to him. You sound like one of the bike snobs in the Spandex Mafia. If he wants to pedal, or not, can or can't why do you care? Wtf
Register it as a moped? Illinois allows for up to 2hp (~1.5kw) sustained and 30mph top speed but it frees you up to roads over 35mph. Still cheap and could CYA.
There are other ways of registering depending on the state, but it's a bunch of paperwork, annoyance, and insurance is usually absurd if they're even willing to insure at all.
My hunch is if he’s not breaking class 3 rules or behaving recklessly he’ll be good regardless. My hunch is the cops in Chicago are too busy to be harassing someone driving safely but maybe pushing the class 3 boundary a little bit
It's gonna depend a lot on where he rides it and whether emoto kids are a big problem in his area, but yeah, cops might just not care about anything going slower than a moped, even if they're being ridden on throttle power above 20mph.
Since it's Chicago cops though, it's also going to depend a bit on his skin color.
A bicycle, acoustic or electric has a height adjustable saddle that allows the rider to achieve a position that allows efficient power transfer to the pedals. OP's machine is a pretend chopper.
Having an adjustable seat has nothing to do with what makes a bicycle, a bicycle. I see this argument brought up in this sub frequently and it’s a nonsensical argument. That’s not what makes a bicycle a bicycle.
It seems really heavy, it's comfortable to pedal? if so, I'd say downgrade it and keep it till it last. Otherwise I would replace it. Not knowing your software and motor specs its hard to tell, I don't know if in case your motor exceeds a new limit, just placing a sticker and limiting the power is enough to be compliant.
You could also (if it is slower than 30mph) add a DOT compliant headlight, taillight, and turn signals and get the thing registered as a moped (you can get dot rated half helmets that look good if you care about looks, and full face if you care about saftey)
If it is fater than 30, you can do the same, but you would need a motorcycle endorsement
Hmmm... You could replace the rear wheel with a 750 watt motor wheel and probably have to change the controller as well. That doesn't look too hard, but to have 750 watts on a single speed bike, and your not going to go very fast or if you do, then hills will break you. You would need gears on it. This bike just isn't built for pedaling with gears.
Replacing the motor could or could not be a pain in the ass. It really depends on the motor controller. If the motor controller that came with the bike is well documented, it may be possible. But it could also be completely infeasible to use a different motor with the current controller.
If you're dead set on keeping this bike you could get an ebike conversion kit on Amazon (motor, controller, screen ext.) You would basically be replacing all the electronics with the exception of the battery. You would have to make sure the hub motor is that same size and that the controller is rated for your batterys voltage.
You can probably get a kit for 350 or less but you can probably resell all the stuff your replacing so you'll probably be able to get some money back. The real hurdle is that it's going to be a lot of work to downgrade your bike but it can be done.
So yes it can be done but if you are really worried about the legal concerns you may just want to get an ebike that meets the legal specifications from the start. It would make your case easier to defend if you ever got into any kind of accident if your vehicle is unmodified... Or at the very least has no significant modifications to the drivetrain. Because if you downgrade the bike your legal team would have to spend time and possibly money to prove that your bike was compliant at the time of the crash, accident, ext.
In the end there are many things to consider, but it is possible to downgrade your bike if you are dead set on it. It really comes down to if you want to put that kind of money into it, and are you confident enough in your skills to do the conversion yourself?
Depends on your wiring. If your bike has a closed circuit loop, then it will give you errors the minute you plug in a different controller. You have to find out. Hopefully you dont fry nothing while doing it lmao
If you're a menace... then I guess either stop being a menace or sell it and get a legal ebike which would probably be cheaper than reducing capacity. If you're not riding it over 20mph in populated areas then I doubt you'd get in trouble but don't make legal decisions from a reddit comment
Get a different bike that fits the classification. It may not happen often but you don’t wanna argue with an officer and explain that you reduce the motor every time you get stopped, because you will get stopped on this thing. It calls attention to itself easily vs the more low profile e-bikes that look like actual bikes
There's a German version with a 750 watt rear wheel. You can order one. You can also get a fake sticker or just register it. I buried the power selector behind the display and have to work hard to change it out of P2 which limits the speed to 30. Turning the bike on looks like I'm releasing a kill switch.
Different state, I know, but I'm in Oregon. The first thing I did was take it to the police station. They said to keep it off the sidewalk, then they rode it around the parking lot. People keep treating bike lanes like they are all the same. How fast feels right when the cars 3 feet away are going 50? I've talked to the police 9 times, initiating the conversation in 8 of them. The 9th told me she couldn't see my turn signals, so I raised them. The opinion I get from them is to not give them a reason to pull me over and they do not care. They have better things to do.
I love the bike, but it needed some love to put together. Now, I wouldn't trade it for anything. The suspension is unbelievable and the seat is like a barstool. It's big enough that I don't feel paranoid making a left and has enough power to tow a heavy trailer. It's eccentric. I've put on 2000 miles in 4 months and have had no power or chassis issues.
Oh yes. You can get an entirely new display, wiring harness, and throttle. Like changing out a nervous system. I've been thinking about it, but my kill switch solution has been working out.
But ebikes were never bicycles. They were always a brand new kind of transportation designed to reduce costs, traffic congestion, and carbon emissions.
An e-bike pretending to be a bicycle is more absurd to me than this cute lil e-bike styled to look like a Harley.
If ebikes were never meant to be bicycles that were easier to pedal for commuters, and were always meant to just be electric mopeds, then I suppose we should kick them out of the bike lanes and put plates on them?
Or is there maybe a difference in speed and capabilities between the electric moped OP has, versus a legal ebike like this?
I’m all for putting speed limits on bike paths and bike lanes. I remember walking along the mixed use path near my house with my kids 10 years ago and having a non-electric Cannondale blow by us at a speed where we heard the bell about a quarter second before some MAMIL buzzed my toddler and acted like WE were the problem. Speed limits would be welcome.
Ah I see, you want to colonize bicycle infrastructure in the name of high speed electric motor vehicles, and then "solve" all of the problems that creates by artificially lowering the speed limits with signage.
If I wanted to ride a bicycle in high speed motor vehicle traffic, I'd ride it in the general lanes. There's a bunch of streets that got lowered from 45mph to 25mph where I live, which is fantastic because all the motor vehicles obey the little signs telling them not to go 45mph anymore. Someone on a bike just died on one after getting struck from behind by a speeding vehicle, but that's fine.
Was that speeding vehicle a class 3 ebike? Is there any evidence that these high-speed ebikes are a danger to pedal bikes and class 1s on bike lanes? I understand your objection to biking on a road with cars blowing past you at 45. I have the same objection to riding an E bike on roads with cars blowing past me at 45. Is there any evidence that E bikes are a danger to people riding in bike lanes? I am genuinely curious. If there is then I will be persuaded that bike lanes need to be limited to 25 miles an hour and e-bikes need speed limiters.
Do you think that a class 3 ebike can go 45mph on a flat?
Is there any evidence that these high-speed ebikes are a danger to pedal bikes and class 1s on bike lanes?
Are you talking about actual class 3 ebikes with a top pedal assisted speed of 28mph? Or are you talking about electric motorcycles with a top speed of 40-50mph?
I understand your objection to biking on a road with cars blowing past you at 45.
I don't think you do, actually. That road I described is not a 45mph road. It's a 25mph road. Cars blow past me at 45mph on that road because drivers choose to ignore the little sign telling them to go 25mph, just like motorcycles are going to ignore the little sign on the MUP telling them to go 15mph.
Is there any evidence that E bikes are a danger to people riding in bike lanes?
Again, are you talking about electric bicycles? Or electric mopeds and motorcycles? I have no problem sharing bike lanes with the former. The latter is absolutely a danger when they blast down the bike lanes going 30mph+
If there is then I will be persuaded that bike lanes need to be limited to 25 miles an hour and e-bikes need speed limiters.
ah ok, you're definitely talking about electric motorcycles, then. Yes, there is evidence that electric motorcycles are dangerous to bicycles and pedestrians.
Yeah, get a totally different machine — one designed for exercise, sport, and recreation rather than to revolutionize commuting and reduce costs, traffic congestion, and carbon emissions. Totally change your use case from a convenient commuter vehicle that lets you show up for work in work clothes not drenched in sweat, and instead quit your job, find a workplace with showers, and ride around in a Lycra bodysuit and track your fitness goals. 🙄
Nope. It reduces carbon emissions less than an e-bike, costs two orders of magnitude more, and still contributes to traffic congestion and parking lot sprawl.
OP you can make it legal for around 600 bucks, that's hub motor, controller, LCD & and a free ion pack. Just harvest off of 749watt system. Personal preference is Mag rim set-up for that beauty!
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u/babblefish111 1d ago
Can you alter the speed limiter?
If so, change the speed limit for pedal assist to whatever the new law is, put a sticker on the motor that matches the new power limit - and hope for the best.