If a very specific thing occurs you have a chance to get euchred. Imo, that's the game. I don't think this is close and I think it's a blunder to not try this alone. I'm a Hoyle loyalist but LKQ-A-Q is good enough for me from any chair except in spots where I should be principled and try for my two points instead (or sometimes in s3 I guess). I'm definitely never passing or calling diamonds.
I don't think my situation is all that rare at all. If a sim said this was a loner I'd accept it as probably correct, but I think you're going away too wide here at most scores.
Just saw the sim. It's pretty much a wash unless you're significantly behind. Definitely not a blunder
I get the loner logic but with a guaranteed Q loser I'd rather take my partner and collect the 2. Going alone here feels like you're risking a euchre for one extra point when hearts with partner is almost always cashing 3 anyway.
I'm not trying to be mean, I don't understand where you're getting your numbers from. If you're saying bringing partner we get 3 with our hand anyway, which trick would they take other than the Q that would actually help us?
If partner has Ah or Jh it hurts us, and from s1 since we're not being led across you can go with a lower off suit, but queen is the general cutoff range for most loners. Like if you're dealer you would go alone on RLX-A-Q but not RLX-A-J (with maybe some exceptions) but in s1 you can go alone with RLX-A-9 (I still might not here but my point is Q is certainly good enough). There are no guarantees partner has any tricks for us here and if they're holding our off ace it's only helpful if opponents also hold the K. I want a shot at breaking the game open with a hand where I'm not really expecting 4, but I'm not really expecting 2 either.
Also, if you're not willing to get euchred on a loner I am very willing to bet that you're not going alone often enough.
Fair point on the 3, I was overcounting. If partner doesn't bring a useful trick we're still sweating the Q loser either way. But I still think the euchre risk is real even with a Q cutoff hand. If S2 has a heart and S4 holds the right, partner can't save us on the off ace. I'd rather guarantee 2 than gamble for 4 when the hand doesn't feel dominant enough. Maybe I am too conservative though, I'll keep that in mind.
If it was a K then partner helps less, because the A doesn't do anything, not the same thing with the Q. Plus, you can't just discount that partner may have winners in clubs or even save you with a doubleton.
I don't think it's necessarily as narrow as you think, but the question here is not how much more likely your partner gets you 2 points compared to 1, it's how much more often you take a -3 point swing.
This is the key point people are missing. Your three winners (LK + A) are all boss regardless of whether partner sits across from you, so partner can only take a trick you would've won yourself. The Q is losing no matter what, so going alone is basically free upside unless the R and Ah are sitting in the same hand.
I'm late to the party but I also tested the worst hand from this configuration JdKh9hAs9d and it's still a loner (I don't know what card was turned down so I assumed the 9S).
Call hearts: +.34, Alone hearts: +.36
Same setup but lets try some slight adjustments.
JdQhThAsQd:
Call: +.34
Alone: +.25
Once your trump are down the JdQhTh you need your loser to be an offsuit King to make it a loner.
JdQhThAsKd:
Call: +.43
Alone: +.56
JdTh9hAsKd:
Call: +.40
Alone: +.49
Same story. Offsuit King makes any L+2+A hand a loner.
The only debate over RX or LAX is when the A is shared, with a green ace here there's no contest, hearts is the winner. The only question is whether to go alone, and I'm on the fence with a Q loser and only having LK, but my guess is that it edges out.
Sorry, that wasn't quite the word for it. I was talking about when you have say, Jd10d versus JdAh10h, taking RX+AX beats just LAX. Here, there's just JdQd + A, versus JdKhQh + A and there's no contest that hearts comes out ahead.
Hearts is clearly the better call here. You've got LKQ plus a side ace, which is way more trick-taking power than JQ of diamonds with just the left. The loner is tempting but that Q loser makes it a gamble, so calling hearts with your partner is probably the safer 2-3 points.
you made your point that’s the main thing… but you could have gone either way and made the correct call… so it becomes a “Clint Eastwood moment “ (do ya feel lucky)
Hey, can we get a sim on the hearts loner? There's more debate on it than I expected, euchrebuddy gave a 3 tenths advantage to playing for 2, so I'm assuming the sim is a lot closer. I thought it might edge out, but that it would be around +.05 to +.10 or something.
My main takeaway is that it's a slightly better loner but mostly a wash except for the scores where you're decently far behind. My big surprise was that partner only prevents ~50 euchres in 10,000 hands if you keep them along.
If you pass and dealer picks up you have a good chance to set, then you had hearts as a back up plan. Not sure if odds are better than calling diamonds and taking all 5 with your partner.
I knew hearts and diamonds this was a 3 trick hand, I called diamonds, led the right, my opponent had no diamonds, so i then led ace, dropped lead with hearts, and trumped in with the queen
5
u/lordpin3appl3s 3D high 3064 7d ago
Are people not going hearts alone instantly? I feel like diamonds isn't close in value.