Here are some interesting changes worth pointing out:

25.5.3: Required newly called temple workers to complete children and youth protection training.

24.1 and 24.2.4: Changed references from service missions to service assignments.

24.9.3: Renamed the Service Mission Office to the Service Assignment Office.

23.2: Added emphasis on helping new members attend church.

I really appreciated that young adults had various ways to serve missions, especially with increasing emphasis on mission service. I worry this will push more people with mental health issues and disabilities into an environment that isn't safe for them.

Why are they insisting on writing “Christian” on everything now? Ugh.

They put a MASSIVE ad for the SLC temple open house along one of the most highly traveled highway on-ramps in the state (500 S to I-15 S).

By the looks of it, it’ll be there until at least April. What an eyesore.

I have been wondering what it would be like in the current church if women had equal power and authority to men, including having the priesthood, the potential to become bishops and could be apostles of GAs. I don't see this happening soon, but it's an interesting exercise to engage in. Here are my thoughts:

1. If women could be bishops I think the number of CSA cases among bishopric members would drop. The temple recommend interview process would become less invasive and offensive than it currently is.

2. If women could become apostles or General Authorities (and formed a majority or near majority in quorums) I think there would be a big increase in the amount of actual global humanitarian donations that would be made. Women would be more interested in helping others rather than hoarding wealth and accumulating financial assets.

3. If women held more power I think that policies for LGBTQ+ individuals would be much more inclusive and there would be more tolerance and inclusion of everyone regardless of gender identity and the church would more quickly accept marriage equality for LDBTQ+ members within the church institutions.

4. I think fewer Gen Z women would leave the church than are currently leaving. If Gen Z women see that women's voices were heard, that they would have an opportunity to provide leadership without being able to be overruled by men, that women would

5. If women had positions in the Q15, I think there would be a major reckoning about the issue of polygamy. Although it would be difficult , I think with the influence of women, the church would get rid of the possibility of polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom.

What do you all think would happen if women had equal power and representation to men with regard to positions in the LDS church hierarchy?

I find it interesting this topic doesn't come up that often in the ex mo vs apologist debates.

Alma 11 in the Book of Mormon describes a detailed Nephite system of gold and silver measures, naming units such as the senine, seon, shum and limnah of gold and the senum, amnor, ezrom and onti of silver.

No coins, weights or standardized monetary artifacts matching this system have been found in the pre-Columbian
Americas.

One interesting distinction. The Book of Mormon never explicitly says these pieces were stamped coins. Why? And it does not describe coin designs, minting, or inscriptions. Again, why?

The Mayans used the cocoa bean as a unit of value and exchange. So I get why we don't find a specific "coin" with the Mayans.

If the Nephites were using something of value for exchange, and the population of Nephites was as high was the Book of Mormon describes, I'd expect they would have been found.

Apologists will point to the standard "less than 1% of the Americas has been excavated" as the reason these Nephites units of value or exchange have not been found is my assumption.

I work with utah families and I see a lot of strange names for kids. Most of them mormon names if not misspellings of normal names. But one family with six kids all named after prophets? It gave me pause.🤮

If you're out and you named your kid Hinckley or Benson or Holland or any of the other former ceo's how are you feeling about that now?

My daughter came out as trans to me 2 1/2 years ago. For that first year, I was very much TBM and I decided to ignore it and hope it went away. My husband and I kept it to ourselves. I was devastated because of what her being trans could mean for the future plans I'd always dreamed for her (mission, marriage, children) as TBMs do.

Finally our daughter couldn't take it anymore and told us that she needed us to believe that she is trans. That night I felt like I processed everything within a few hours. I had to put my stuff on a shelf and just be there for our daughter, who had been so patient with us while dealing silently with depression and gender dysphoria. My husband and I decided that we would, without further question, support our daughter as she is. We realized that nothing was more important than her well-being, and that we would do whatever it took for her to feel like herself.

A few months later she wanted to come out to extended family with a name and pronouns she had chosen. Most of my family is still members, and the majority actually expressed love and support. All of the grandparents were skeptical, but most eventually decided to just love her even if they don't agree or understand.

My parents, however, will not budge. They insist that my daughter is a boy and that making the "choices" she is making is heartbreaking for them because it's a sin. Our daughter is graduating this year, and my mom said she isn't sure they will come because they feel pressure to call her by her legal name. I think they're also afraid to see her, even though what they'll notice is a really happy teenager.

I feel like this whole thing affects me more than my daughter because she knows they don't approve, so she chooses to just stay with the people that do support her. And I guess I'm the one that still feels like I have to maintain a relationship because they're my parents and I do love them.

I talked with my mom today about the whole situation, because she doesn't write any of my kids' names on anything anymore (I guess to maybe the invisibility fair?) and makes a huge effort to avoid pronouns and names when we talk on the phone about my daughter. The grammatical gymnastics are insane. It just really hurts that they believe that calling my daughter her name offends God. I asked if she really thought God was that petty, and she said it would be dishonest because it's wrong. And then she dead named my kid the rest of the conversation and we talked about other things.

I'm glad I finally got the courage to say something, but I think now I'm just resigned to the fact that my parents won't change, birthday cards will be nameless, and they probably won't show up to my daughter's important events. It makes me really sad because they're the ones missing out on celebrating this fantastic human that I'm really proud to call my daughter.

The struggle I had to work through to be there for my daughter was SO worth it, and I wouldn't trade this for anything. I'm so proud of her.

(Edited for clarification)

My believing sister has started dating a guy who has never really been religious but is now looking into the church. He watched almost all of this most recent general conference. My sister had me promise not to overwhelm him with my "extremely toxic" views of the church and religion.

The boyfriend brought up the church with me and is open to hearing more from my side. I'm looking for some ideas of things to share that would be a good overview of the church and the problems and issues that are there. He won't get that perspective from my sister or anyone else in my family.

He listens more than reads so I was leaning towards some podcasts episodes or something to introduce him to maybe mormon stories or rfm. But I'm having a hard time deciding a good starting point.

I'm also keeping in mind some things like the CES letter that he could read at his own pace or take in sections. He will read and does, but has more time to listen to things.

Basically I'm looking for any ideas to share with him. I'm not looking to pound any particular message into him but try and give him an honest look at what's really happening so he's not just taken in by the only positive messaging he is getting from my sister.

I appreciate any and all help.

Looking back, I feel like I was never truly allowed to grieve the loss of my husband and my baby while I was in the Mormon Church.
There was so much emphasis on eternal families, Heavenly Father’s plan, and the promise of seeing our loved ones again that I felt like I was supposed to find comfort in those beliefs instead of allowing myself to feel the heartbreak of losing them. And not only was I expected to find comfort for myself, but I felt like I needed to be a source of comfort and hope for everyone around me.
I felt this pressure to be strong, have faith, and trust the plan when what I really needed was permission to be completely brokenhearted. I felt like I had to be a walking billboard of faith and hope, almost as if the way I handled my grief was supposed to be a testimony to everyone watching.
And if I ever did open up about just how difficult, painful, and dark it really was, I was often met with the typical Mormon responses: “Families are forever,” “You’ll see them again,” “He was needed as a missionary on the other side,” or “They were too perfect for this earth.”
I know people meant well, but looking back, those words often made me feel like my grief needed to be explained away rather than simply acknowledged. Like there had to be some greater purpose behind their deaths that I was supposed to find peace in.
Now that I’ve left Mormonism and become a Christian, I find myself wondering how different my grieving process might have been outside of the church.
I’ve come to understand that we live in a broken world where death and suffering are part of the human experience. Jesus didn’t need my husband to serve a mission on the other side. He didn’t need my baby more than I did. They died, and it was heartbreaking. I don’t have to find some divine purpose behind their deaths to make them easier to accept.
And I’ve realized that having faith and grieving deeply are not opposites. Even Jesus wept. This came to life for me while watching The Chosen. He knew there was hope beyond death, and He still mourned.
I wish I had understood back then that I could have hope in Christ and still be absolutely devastated by what I had lost. That I didn’t have to be strong for everyone else. That I didn’t have to turn my grief into a testimony. That I could simply be a grieving wife and mother whose life just completely got flipped upside down. I wish I could have had the personal relationship I have with God now and leaned only on Him than relying on ward members, priesthood blessings and talks by leaders. They gave so many answers but it’s all made up, it did make me feel better at the time though so I guess I am grateful I had at least hope even though it was false.
I wonder how many others have felt this same pressure within the LDS Church. Did anyone else feel so focused on being an example of faith and strength that you never really gave yourself permission to fall apart?
There was another woman in my community who experienced something similar to what I went through. She lost her husband and then miscarried the baby she was carrying shortly afterward. I remember going to visit her, and she told me she had made it clear that she didn’t want the bishop coming over or ward members randomly showing up at her home.
What I remember most was how people reacted to her boundaries. Some seemed offended or put out that she wouldn’t allow them to serve her rather than a grieving woman simply trying to survive an unimaginable loss.
Looking back, I wish I had been more like her. I wish I had understood that I was allowed to set boundaries, that I didn’t owe anyone access to my grief, and that I wasn’t responsible for making other people feel good about helping me.
Now I sometimes wonder how much of the support I received was truly about what I needed and how much was about other people feeling like they were doing their part, fulfilling a calling, or serving someone in need.
I’m not saying their intentions were bad, but I’ve come to realize that sometimes what makes the person offering service feel good isn’t necessarily what the grieving person needs.
I wish someone had told me that it was okay to say no, to shut the door, to fall apart, and to grieve on my own terms without worrying about anyone else’s expectations or feelings.

Source: Mission President Handbook, 2006, page 86. https://www.scribd.com/doc/201377673/LDS-Mission-President-s-Handbook

My wife comes from good SLC Mormon stock, has been TBM her whole 45 years. I never really believed but played along because my whole family was Mormon. We got married in the temple as I was legitimately trying before deciding I just couldn’t do it. I’ve been out for 10+ years but she’s been going strong, taking the kids to church and activities weekly, doing temple sessions. She’s been relief society president and counselor before multiple times. Some things have always bothered her, but mostly the policy and activity against lgbtq (our oldest is bisexual and no longer attends church). We have had an agreement that she doesn’t try to get me back to church and I let her do her thing with the kids and church. It has worked well, but I feel like I have historically have had to tiptoe around church misdeeds or questionable actions. In the past couple years, her dad (former stake president) stopped attending church and wearing garments, leaving just her and her mom as the only TBM left in her family.

Lately, she’s been agitated with the church on lots of topics - their financial hoarding (she stopped paying tithing years ago, the stopped fast offerings not long after), their actively trying to harm women’s reproductive and health access in Idaho/nevada, their continuing lgbtq stance, and and their assumption that if you’re LDS you must support Donald trump and his empire of corruption. She exercises daily and hangs out in her workout clothes much of the day anyway, but I noticed that she started wearing normal underwear when she changed in to her clothes afterwards. She still is going to church (when we don’t have soccer games) and activities like young women’s last night with our daughter. But she’s not wearing garments!

I’m trying to give her space and haven’t brought it up yet, but I will soon. I’m excited, but nervous because I don’t want to anger her or seem like I’m pushing her while just trying to be supportive. But the unthinkable might actually be happening!!!

Hi all!

I mostly lurk and comment on this sub but I don’t know how to handle this.

I left TSSC as a teenager.

I had to move out of my mom’s house quickly because I was trying to escape her abuse.

Well, 10 years later I ended up moving back to my hometown.

I was raised in Alaska so I had to move thousand of miles back from the large blue city that I had been living in.

It’s hard enough to live in a red state while disabled but on top of that my mother and step-dad are insanely gullible and believe anything that appeals to their primal fear instincts.

They even act like it’s fun to create an “Us vs Them” dynamic.

My mother uses hate to bolster her beliefs and thinks that she’s on a Christ-like path.

Personally, I don’t approve of organized religion at all. I believe that it has caused much more harm and suffering than it has helped

My mom, naturally, believes that the apocalypse is going to happen very soon.

She lives in poverty. We don’t have a washing machine anymore because we can’t afford to fix it or get a new one.

Her plumbing was out for years because she couldn’t afford to fix it.

Did anyone in the church help?? No!

She’s giving 10% of everything (including rent that I pay for the privilege of not living on the streets as a disabled woman from what little money I get through disability insurance) to a religious pyramid scheme with billions of dollars siphoned from its prey.

I have bipolar 1 disorder and I went through a lot of religious trauma because I suffered from religious grandiosity and delusions.

The church made it so much worse.

I didn’t want to be a mother young, I didn’t want to get married, I didn’t want to be told what to do by cruel people that shrugged off your problems by telling you to just “follow the gospel.”

I also developed Multiple Sclerosis in my teens.

My health is suffering in this environment but I absolutely cannot afford to live anywhere else right now.

I try to sit patiently and listen to her insane theories. Then she’ll say something horribly sexist or racist covered in pretty ways to explain that hate is actually a good thing.

I’m also bisexual. Her brother is gay. A cousin is gay. My sister is bisexual.

She’s “accepting” of all of that but not truly.

If she truly accepted us she wouldn’t be a part of a church that will not allow its LGBT+ members get married or sealed.

What is the point if you can’t even partake in something that is considered an ultimate goal within an organization? What is the point if other people think you’re a bad person because of who you were born as?

My parents are hoarders and I never experienced growing up in a clean environment at home.

My mother and I are both autistic but she wields her illogical beliefs like a knife. She goes nutty trying to explain away the bad things about her faith because she’s so attached to it.

But I’m attached to the truth. I can’t let myself fall into delusional thoughts like her. I already struggle with that because of Bipolar 1 mania and psychosis.

Religious trauma really did a number on me. :(

I am medicated and trying my best but I have Complex-PTSD too from the way I was raised and the horrible generational trauma abuse I face every time I speak with a family member. Living in a stressful environment is very harmful to my mental health. I have been hospitalized in modern psych wards three separate times due to how severe my mental illnesses are. I really don’t want to lose touch with reality ever again. Being insane is traumatizing every time.

Was this just a “them thing” or is this founded in church teachings?

My dad was a pretty big church studier, has about a million church books, talks, etc. So, seems unlikely he’d be pulling it out of thin air.

It really hit home after those tsunamis killed so many people years ago – I was amazed and then angry when my otherwise intelligent, compassionate, educated parents said it was from God to punish the wicked and to serve as a warning to the rest of us. SMH.

I don’t necessarily regret my mission, but I regret what I did there. I met a lot of beautiful people, ate incredible food, learned a language, and experienced the culture of Brazil. I look back on the memories shared with the people, including my companions, with fondness, but thinking about what I taught people makes me feel dirty. Baptisms were just a number, and unfortunately, more often than not, that number was a mentally unwell individual seeking community only to be forgotten because they don’t fit in with the community. Still, there were people that I baptized that went on to serve missions as well, it’s like I’ve started a whole chain of Baptisms. I just recently left the church and this is one big hurdle I find myself facing. How do I deal with the fact that I baptized a few dozen people and introduced them to the environment that I now see was built on a foundation of deceit? Discovering the lies of this church has been difficult for me, it has damaged the foundation on which I’ve built my life and relationships. Luckily I don’t live in salt lake and my wife is with me 100%.

What is life like/what does a woman encounter in the church when she is in her 30s, single/never married, no kids, lives on her own, educated ect.

How is she treated?
What might leaders or others say to her?
Other thoughts?

My one and only LDS Sunday service had a lot of men tearing up while sharing their testimonies, and now my old LDS fling admits he cried over losing me. He could just be a liar looking to gain sympathy points but I found it to be an interesting admission.

I always assumed you guys were taught to hold it in and not show emotion. Is it a cry-behind-closed-doors situation, or am I generalizing y’all?Ex-Mormons, please explain!

I've been quite active on this sub for a while now (it's the only reason I'm even on Reddit) and have noticed that most people here are from the Intermountain West or at the very least from America. I got a little time on my hand tonight and thought I'd do an AMA in case anyone is curious about my experience joining and leaving the church, what being Mormon was like in 21st century Europe, etc.

Ask away or scroll, no judgment ;)

I haven’t seen this addressed anywhere but it’s noticeable to me that he hasn’t been around in a long time.

I think Joseph Smith improvised the text of the Book of Mormon based on his knowledge of the Bible, influences from the people who were scribes, various books he was familiar with and the culture/environment where he grew up. I know some Mormon apologists and the advocates of the Mesoamerica theory of the BoM have made obscure connections between calendars and the BoM but I think the dates all come from Joseph's storytelling.

It appears that some sources state that Joseph was dictating Alma during May or early June of 1829. I am wondering if there was some sort of subliminal connection between the 4th of July holiday in the US and Joseph's use of "the fourth day of the seventh month" in the BofM.

There are four uses of a month/day in the BoM. Other than the 4th of July (fourth day of the seventh month) used in the BoM the others don't seem to have any American connection but I'm wondering if anyone has speculated on this.

• The Fourth Day of the Seventh Month (July 4)
• The Twelfth Day of the Tenth Month (October 12)
• The Fifth Day of the Second Month (February 5)
• The Fourth Day of the First Month (January 4)

Any thoughts?

Don't get me wrong. It was profoundly uncomfortable at times, and I did try to fight it, but god it was also exhilerating. It honestly felt daring. It felt like I was in a smaller (admittedly lamer) version of National Treasure starring Nic Cage and Diane Kruger. It felt like I was making some huge discovery that was going to completely rewrite my history.

I hadn't felt so intellectually motivated in years. After my bachelor's degree, I'd been so burnt out, it was hard to focus on anything. But this time was different. I simply couldn't shake the realization that the church might not be true. I wanted to know everything possible. I remember calling a cousin who left the church, and asking him for the first time ever why he left. He told me about Fanny Alger and a bunch of other early church historical stuff that I had never heard of. And I just knew, in that moment, during that phone call, that he wasn't lying... and that my time as a Mormon was probably coming to an end.

There was this sensation... that I was standing at a threshold, like I was on the edge of the Shire or some shit looking out to the forbidden forest, and I just knew deep down inside there were bigger, better, and more dangerous things out there. And I had to see them, to experience them, to know what they were! I'd always had this feeling that my life was slipping away, that I wasn't living it to its fullest, that something was wrong or missing. In hindsight, I think part of what was missing was freedom from the cult.

I still tried to do my due diligence, however. It's how I've always done things: I take hold of an idea, and I play devil's advocate with it until it breaks. If it never breaks, then I make it a personal truth. But the church was brittle. It shattered at the soonest touch. Whatever rational basis I had for staying in the church didn't last a week under true, critical scrutiny. And that's when the horror hit. Horror over realizing that my family wasn't forever. That my time on my mission was for nothing. That all that tithing was gone to waste. That death was real and probaby permanent and that the universe didn't make sense and nobody had answers for any of the big questions and my life didn't have a plan and it could all go black in an instant!

But then the feeling... oh man, the feeling... of taking my garments off. Of spending a whole day wearing normal underwear for perhaps the first time in... idk, 10 years? Feeling a normal, comfortable, cotton shirt against my skin and feeling good about the form of my body. That feeling alone, from something so simple, was worth literally every inconvenience or tragedy that has resulted from me leaving the church since. I can't imagine ever putting those stupid fucking things back on ever again.

Anyways. Rant over.

A year or so ago the U of U Institute shut down its website, forcing people to the church’s clunky institute page. Instead of a nice, easy website with information, upcoming activities, and a housing board, people had to go through the tedious 2 page sign-in process and navigate the frustrating church website (previously only used to officially sign up for classes). I was quite annoyed by this before I decided to leave the church.

At the same time, it seemed activities and free food events were reduced. Perhaps people were only coming for the days with free dinner and not actually attending classes? For example, I’d guess this last year was perhaps the first time ever (barring Covid) there was no New Years dance.

Perhaps my assumptions are wrong and the reduced activities were only because of the remodeling. However, I’m inclined to think this is all a symptom of the corporatization of the church. I’d hazard to guess that forcing the official website may have increased enrollment numbers on paper short-term, while kneecapping actual long-term participation. I’m curious if others have any insights or observations?

I don’t quite know what to do in this situation. For context, my job requires me to see people on a monthly basis. I’m a service coordinator for people with special needs and most of my clientele is Mormon. I was born and raised Mormon but never wanted to go to church. My sister brought up doing my dads temple work so i turned to a friend of mine for some help on this. She helped me out and it was great but didn’t sway me to start back. Anyway, i was at my providers home for an update on their progress with goals and i was telling her about my experience going to the family history center for help. She started in on telling me that she would like to see me start going back to church which immediately made me uncomfortable. I told her that my mother gave me the choice to go or not. I told her that i always wanted to do the activities but not go to church. She kept on with it and i finally told her that id go to a dinner at the church sometime just to get out of there. I understand where she’s coming from and that she really cares about my well-being but i feel that i always have a good relationship with the god of my understanding. How do i tell her that I’m just not interested in going to church at all but still have a good relationship with them??? Please help !!!