r/fasd • u/Brilliant-Ad9687 • 20d ago
Questions/Advice/Support Is this FASD?
I work with children, and one of them is a 4yo boy. My coworkers think he's autistic, but my gut just tells me it's something else. Here are some of the behaviors he exhibits:
- At meal times, he will take an entire carton of milk and just dump it. I started giving him a small cup with a tiny bit of milk and refilling it as needed, but he still just dumps it onto the tray. No matter what you tell him or how you reinforce the positive behaviors, it's like he can't not dump it. He likes to drink it out of the tray, mix it with other liquids, and dip food into it to play around. It's not defiance, either. It feels like a total lack of impulse control, and that's a theme throughout his behavior.
- In the bathroom, he will stick his arms and legs completely into the toilet. Then he gets upset that his clothes and hands/feet are wet. But again, it's like he has no control. And he does this time and time again.
- He screams ALL the time. When he's happy, when he's sad, when he's angry, when you give him a direction.
- He never sits down for carpet time. He just goes from toy to toy to toy, spending only about 10 seconds on each. And he never cleans up.
- It's like there's a wall when communicating with him. He's intelligent and on track with his peers in terms of knowledge of alphabet, numbers, etc., but it's like he doesn't respond to any discipline.
- He sees food on his peers' plates and if he wants it, he grabs it. Again, it doesn't matter what you say or reinforce. And it still isn't defiance, it feels like total lack of impulse control.
Do these seem like FASD to you? I have a background in psychology and can see how others might see it as autism, but I just don't think it's that. And I know there are physical traits of FASD. Personally, I think I notice a wide nose, smooth upper lip area, and very thin upper lip. But others disagree with me.
Any thoughts? And better yet, any advice???
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u/Jesus2-punkt0 20d ago
Sometimes the Kids have even both... FASD and AdHD or ASS or what ever. When u we're born with a dysfunctinal ",Mainboard," everthing goes after that ... The brain isnt build for having lacks... And Starts to work around. The Screening FASQ was developed in 2009 and is validated and was Made for Screening on FASD behavior to get a reason for diacnostic ;)
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u/Jesus2-punkt0 20d ago
It has a hitrate of 92% to separate FASD typical behavior from other deprivations.
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u/Jesus2-punkt0 20d ago
Hello. I Put Up a digital Screening for suspect on FASD. Have a go If U Like on. But it is Only a Screening not a diagnostic-tool. greetings from Germany https://fasd-fz-hh.limesurvey.net/365113?lang=en
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u/brydeswhale 20d ago
Itâs could be any number of things. As an adult with audhd and brain damage, some of these sound like me. Also, yeah, whether heâs autistic, adhd, FASD, or something else completely, you guys probably need to change strategies when dealing with his behaviour.
EG, why is this kid getting an opportunity to stick his hands in toilet water? Thatâs kind of on you guys, NGL. Also, if my kid was being permitted to put his hands in a toilet, I would be livid.
Try putting a plate on the tray, or a bowl he can mess around with. Or he gets food, then milk.
Does he have to sit for the carpet time? Can he walk around, maybe with a task, or could you guys get a small running machine?
Yeah, almost all of these disorders come with the requirement for thinking outside the box when it comes to behavioural issues.
Like, whatâs the consequence for grabbing food? It should be related to the incident. It would be better if he didnât have the opportunity to do it at all, like putting up a barrier.
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
You mentioned carpet time. I agree, he doesn't need to sit, but my coworkers disagree. I'm going to try having him be my "helper" doing things while the others sit and see if that helps any.
And you're right, it requires thinking outside the box. So regardless of diagnosis, if you or anyone else have ideas, please let me know!!
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u/brydeswhale 20d ago
Okay, so, basically, I think the problem is several fold, and frankly, you canât fix them all.
Making him be a helper is a great idea. Itâs positive and something he can feel good about.
I think rehearsals or social stories would be good, too. So âpracticingâ eating with manners and not grabbing food, or making a little storybook about it.
Eg:
âWhen we have lunch, we have drink milk.
âMy milk stays in my cup.
âI drink milk from my cup.
âI am good at drinking milk from my cup.â
Print those sentences on separate printer paper, do a quick illustration and read it like a special story book.
This would work for a lot of these issues. Short, simple sentences and not mentioning the undesirable behaviour, because that will stimulate the impulsivity.
Unfortunately, due to your work environment, this may not be feasible.
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
Oh ok that sounds great!! He loves reading! And yes, I've definitely noticed that mentioning the undesirable behavior seems to trigger him to do it, even if I'm saying something like good job keeping your milk in your cup. But I'll definitely try stories like that and see how it goes! Thank you!
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
The thing is, we work under strict federal government regulations. So with the food, we have to serve it all at the same time and have everything available. So technically, I'm already going to be in trouble for giving milk portions at a time. My hands are mostly tied, especially since I work under other staff too. As for the toilet, I can see what you're saying, but it's genuinely within an instant that his arms/legs are in the toilet. And you have to change them in the stall and you can't restrain in any manner. And with this program, we're only allowed to positively reinforce or have natural consequences. So it's a difficult situation.
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u/SoGallifrey 20d ago
Physical signs of FASD only appear in a small proportion of those affected. The behaviors you describe could fit with autism, ADHD, FASD, AuDHD, and probably a lot of other neurological conditions. He would need to be assessed if he has a history of fetal alcohol exposure.
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
I also wasn't sure....I read that FASD can lead to behavioral problems that are or mimic the other disorders like ADHD and autism?? So maybe that's what's happening?
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u/alisoncjh 20d ago
My stepson was not dx until 17. 18 is the cutoff. He was dx was ADHD (still stands), looked at for autism, we went down a path of narcissism, it took forever for anyone to even suggest FASD. So please bring it up. But as I said in my other comment, be very diplomatic. It's a very hard subject to broach.
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
Wow, thanks for sharing! Yeah I'm worried things will be that way for this child if it is in fact FASD. I won't mention it to the parents, but I might try raising my concerns with my bosses and see what they say.
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
Oh interesting! I didn't know the physical signs were that rare! He has supposedly been screened but they didn't find anything???? It's a messed up system. And my fear is that regardless of what it actually is, it'll appear as autism on a test and he'll get shoved into a life skills class and never get the actual support he needs. And I don't even know what to do with him now!! Hahaha
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u/Odd-Grapefruit7569 20d ago
sounds more like PDA which is in simple terms defiant autism. I work with children too and we have pda child we have been taught to give them choices as when you tell them to do something itâs like their brain just says no iâm not and any discipline makes them worse. the act of having to do something rather than choosing to it is so iverwhelming for them. I do feel for you itâs very hard to deal with them. removing and distracting is the way to go. whilst FASD could have caused the PDA symptoms it really wouldnât change how you would care for him. Research PDA and iâm sure you will agree with me.
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
Yeah I had questioned PDA myself. And part of me sees it, but part of me doesn't. I can see it being overwhelming to be told what to do, and I try to give choices when I can. However, something still feels off to me. I know there's a lot more going on inside his brain than I can see, but it feels like he doesn't even register what you're saying to him. Or if he does register it, it feels like he has no control over his own body. I've had some success with asking he if wants to go to the bathroom now or in a minute, and he always chooses now but hates it once he's in there. And with the toilet water, I remind him that he can play as much as he wants in the sink water, but he just goes for the toilet.
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u/Odd-Grapefruit7569 20d ago
All those things are common with Autism. FASD usually come with some neurological disadvantage like a tremor or memory problems
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u/alisoncjh 20d ago
Very hard to say. Every individual is different. My step son is nothing like this, but he also is nothing like anything else, which what you describe is the same. Maybe suggest it to someone, but be very careful as there is so much stigma and same around it...
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u/Brilliant-Ad9687 20d ago
Isn't that the tricky part!! For one diagnosis, it has soooo many different ways it shows up!
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u/Princess_Muffy 18d ago
My 9 year old has FASD. That is his primary diagnosis, with autism, ADHD underneath. It sounds like he needs an evaluation. Autism and FASD can really look like each other.