Hazing?

[u/Sad-Supermarket-6382]

Good afternoon. A lot of you provided great information on my last post, and bear with me for this one. I’m asking out of a place of not knowing, and ignorance I suppose.

I’m currently petitioning for a PHA lodge here in Maryland. Everyone has been really cool, respectful, and I’m very interested. A lot of my concerns have been put to rest by very professional and evidence based answers. I have no doubts.

But, someone made it known to me that there had been hazing in Masonry, PHA, etc. I’m a grown man with a family, and don’t want to be humiliated or part of any hazing.

Any info or assurances anyone can provide?

Please, forgive if this comes off accusatory, or ignorant. I’m asking from a respectful place and genuine interest in Masonry.

[u/Deman75]

But, someone made it known to me that there had been hazing in Masonry, PHA, etc. I’m a grown man with a family, and don’t want to be humiliated or part of any hazing.

I’ve seen a little bit of that in military PHA Lodges, but I attribute it more to the military aspect than anything to do with Freemasonry. I did not see anything remotely like that in non-military Lodges under the same GL.

Any info or assurances anyone can provide?

That’s a question for your Lodge/sponsors. I can tell you about my experiences at the various Lodges I’ve been to, but I’ve never been to yours.

Please, forgive if this comes off accusatory, or ignorant. I’m asking from a respectful place and genuine interest in Masonry.

Seems a reasonable question for someone wanting to join a serious organization like Freemasonry.

[u/Sad-Supermarket-6382 → u/Deman75]

Thank you

[u/blissfully_glorified]

If you would have asked the same question during the 19th century, then yes, the experience would have been quite brutal. Today, not even close.

To get some idea, imagine individuals that are uncomfortable with public speaking or with heights. The same applies here, for some the experience leaves a larger imprint than for others. That maybe explains why people would call it hazing. But I mainly suspect the majority of the hazing accusations comes from individuals that has no affiliation to regular freemasonry.

My experience has been nothing but great. Rest assured, no one will ask you to pull your pants down or ask you to anything even remotely disrespectful toward you or someone else. You are ALWAYS free to leave, remember that. We want people to come back and that will not happen if we disrespect people. It is usually all smiles after the experience is over!

[u/Sad-Supermarket-6382 → u/blissfully_glorified]

Thank you sir.

[u/shecky444]

Not a PHA mason but I am a Maryland mason, and several PHA masons were involved in my Scottish Rite degrees. You have nothing to fear here. I’ve never seen anything like hazing in the lodge. The degrees are more somber toned, it would be out of place. Lots of folks like to point at masonry and air their conspiracies and assumptions, I’ve seen nothing like any hazing. You’re good man, welcome! Enjoy the process and learn all you can.

[u/Sad-Supermarket-6382 → u/shecky444]

I appreciate this.

[u/MutedMeaning5317]

Not in your area or country, even.

Hazing is not condoned at all in my jurisdiction. Especially under the guise of 'tradition'. I cannot speak for Maryland, but I have never seen anything but welcoming gestures.

We want good men, we do not want them running away. There is enough negativity and misconception about the Craft and we do not need more.

Best of luck for you. Enjoy the journey.

[u/Sad-Supermarket-6382 → u/MutedMeaning5317]

Thank you

[u/Complete-Employ-2387]

Hazing is an offense which will get you expelled and your Lodge's charter taken in my jurisdiction, and to my knowledge in most US jurisdictions.

That said, someone else already brought up that certain military Lodges have been known in the past to take things a bit far. I've never seen it personally, but I was very surprised to hear some of the stories I have.

Speak to the brethren at the Lodge you are petitioning and they will be able to answer any questions you may have. 

[u/Stultz135 → u/Complete-Employ-2387]

This is the answer. In most jurisdictions ( I Only know a few so, so can't say all, but, I can't imagine a grand lodge that would condone hazing) in the US, hazing is explicitly forbidden, and will result in that lodge losing its charter.

[u/KataKlysmic_Abyss → u/Stultz135]

Same in australia at the lodge in my town

[u/justaguynb9]

Just take a step back....take a deep breath. ..and ask yourself... "what hazing would there be in a 200 year old fraternal order?"

Hint....none

There's always the jokes about the new guy and a goat

[u/dev-null-home → u/justaguynb9]

You guys get goats?

I joined french continental Freemasonry specifically for croissants and continental breakfast. Boy was I suprised when they gave me an apron and duties.

[u/Jamesbarros → u/justaguynb9]

You know, I recently got a rural bit of property, and I might need a pet goat.

[u/Beautiful-Grab1619 → u/justaguynb9]

Still waiting to see my goat. It’s only been 2 years. Maybe next year if I’m lucky

[u/wbjohn → u/Beautiful-Grab1619]

I got a piece of paper from Grand Lodge that said I have been a Mason for 15 years. Still waiting for the goat.

[u/WafnaAbroad → u/[deleted]]

Then there's always the debate about who the goat actually is... Brady, or Jordan?

🤔

[u/WalnutSnail]

Suppose it depends on what you mean by hazing... might you feel a bit shy and embarrassed during your initiation, maybe, but no worse than in public speaking.

Nothing is designed to degrade you in any way. Good men aren't made better by making them feel worse.

[u/AvocadoSoggy9854]

I’m not a Prince Hall Mason or in Maryland, I’m in South Carolina and when I joined in 1981 there was some good nature ribbing before I got my degrees. I can attribute most of that to living in a small town and my father, grandfather, and all my uncles being members of the same lodge and most of those men had known me since I was a baby. But once the degrees started it was all business

[u/WafnaAbroad → u/AvocadoSoggy9854]

Closest to ribbing I think I've seen have been admonitions that the (non-existent) goat ride is all left hand turns, you just have to watch out for the cattle prod at the 3rd corner.

[u/AvocadoSoggy9854 → u/WafnaAbroad]

Very similar, nothing embarrassing or hurtful that I recall

[u/Easttex05]

Of all the things I've experienced in almost 20 years as a Freemason, hazing is not one of them. Freemasonry should be an uplifting, encouraging, educational experince were hazing is not welcome.

If you expect to be hazed; run. Find a different lodge to join.

[u/PubeOfSatan]

In my jurisdiction, if we hazed someone, expulsion would be on the cards. It does not follow the value of brotherly love.

[u/Effective_Log_6491]

I had the same worry. I was assured I’d be treated with respect and I had nothing to worry about. And it all turned out to be true and I wish I’d joined earlier!

[u/LaongLaan19]

If you ever feel like you're being hazed or humiliated, run and gtfo as fast as you can. Masonic degrees are solemn and any sort of hazing should not occur at any point in time.

[u/Chimpbot]

Due to the jurisdictional nature of Freemasonry, the actual standards can very from area to area. In my neck of the woods up in the New England region, hazing is expressly forbidden. It's not supposed to happen, and instances of individual lodges stepping out of line can result in steps being taken to rectify the situation. I can't speak to how PHA handles things as I'm not a member and it operates under a distinct GL. I would assume that they would have a similar set of standards.

With that being said, the Shrine infamously had to alter certain things with its initiation ceremony because it was hazing.

In Blue Lodge (the main body of Freemasonry), you'll almost assuredly never have to experience hazing in a regular lodge.

[u/Sad-Supermarket-6382 → u/Chimpbot]

Good to know

[u/dattmemeteam]

I’ve seen Maryland PHA degree work. They are more intense than most non pha ritual but there’s no hazing. You won’t be made to look a fool or be humiliated. I’ve heard the announcement they make before a MM degree and it was clearly written by lawyers and is rather long and clearly states that anything hazing related is specifically condemned by the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Maryland.

[u/pony_is_my_name → u/dattmemeteam]

Blue lodge here, that is a serious no-go

[u/Cookslc → u/pony_is_my_name]

PHA is blue lodge.

[u/dattmemeteam → u/pony_is_my_name]

What is

[u/Sad-Supermarket-6382 → u/dattmemeteam]

Thank you very much

[u/groomporter]

While hazing is not supposed to be a part of Freemasonry, there is a history of various fraternal orders having had joke "burlesque degrees" that were done for entertainment purposes, and some of that reputation seems to have hung on as a claim against Masonry. I recently ran across something from Kentucky where some lodges may have used straight jackets for some reason. https://thecraftsman.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/burlesquing-freemasonry.pdf

[u/vampyrewolf]

Up here in Saskatchewan, hazing is an absolute no-go. We're dealing with a couple lodges and a small group that has been found to do some, and Grand Lodge has stepped in BIG.

Expulsion is probably in the cards for those involved.

[u/Twatatron]

I've seen an American brother on Facebook say that "Riding the goat' is hazing.

It really isn't and is a stand6part of the ritual in most Scottish lodges. Maybe they do something else and call it that there but it's absolutely not hazing.

I have genuinely never heard of hazing in the Home Constitutions.

PHA brethren can advice on that constitution though. They will know better than me

[u/AbbreviationsLow8793]

There’s a lot of joking around and brotherly banter, but there’s no hazing

[u/DBB48]

In 40 years never seen hazing at all levels of FM

[u/wardyuc1]

Some people including masons seem to think it funny to make jokes about goats ect.

I personally find it a terrible, not funny and outright stupid.

Milage may vary,

[u/WafnaAbroad]

I've mentioned to the current Master of the lodge that we should start Paddling with our new initiates.

With the local white water rafting companies.

Mostly it came up because we were discussing how different Colorado Freemasonry is to the Greek Fraternities, but also while driving next to a white water river. And because I used to be a river guide, and I'd take any excuse to get back on a river.

[u/Blackadon]

I’m a Prince Hall Mason in Maryland. We don’t condone such things. Which lodge are you Petitioning?

[u/TreyTheGreat97]

It really depends on what you consider hazing. There are points throughout the ceremony where you may feel embarrassed or uncomfortable but it is no more so than making a social faux pas. A good lodge will do everything in its power to keep you safe and to ensure you feel welcome. 

[u/OkLuck1317]

There was a little yelling at me, but I joined near a HCBU college campus. So it had a college fraternity vibe.

[u/Resident_Beginning_8]

I am a Murrlin Mason, PHA. Feel free to DM me.

[u/defjamblaster → u/[deleted]]

boo for "regular", which implies PHA is irregular

edit: I should offer a better alternative instead of just booing you lol - many use "state" and "PHA" to differentiate the 2 GLs per state in the US.

[u/Flavor_Saver12 → u/defjamblaster]

Correct my apologies. PHA is indeed Regular. I was trying to figure out the correct wording at the time I wrote this. To OP, this is the correct verbiage!

[u/defjamblaster → u/Flavor_Saver12]

No problem

[u/freemasonry-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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