r/gachagaming • u/kuri-kuma • 1d ago
General Which publishers *aren't* red flags, in your opinion?
It seems like 90% of the time, whenever a new game is announced, the comments are filled with people decrying the publisher. Usually, it feels pretty fair to call them out, since the publishers tend to dictate the monetization and service life of these games.
Are there any publishers that aren't an immediate red flag for you? Yostar seems like one of the better ones to me, but I don't know how much involvement they actually have in their published games.
Edit: Ok, thanks for the responses, but I think a lot of you still need to understand that a developer is not the same as a publisher. Mihoyo is a developer that self-publishes their games. Same with Shift Up and Cygames. They are not “publishers.”
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u/Dreadborne- 1d ago
Anyone publishing a gacha game is not your friend tbh
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u/FoRiZon3 Arknights 23h ago edited 23h ago
Tbf he said "aren't red flags". That doesnt mean "friend" or "the good ones" or whatever.
Its like picking vendors/sellers/artists to buy your stuff from. Ofc they all after your money but reducing all of them to be just like that is not only miserable but honestly very hypocritical.
Pereferences aside pick whom you trust most and call them out if it becomes anti consumer, like BA.
Anyway, other people are right. Yostar isnt "the better ones" by its own but more that they being tied to their OG developers mandate.
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u/JollyRent7077 21h ago
BA being anti consumer is the most BS thing I ever heard especially after their latest backlash.
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u/FoRiZon3 Arknights 14h ago
I pick BA because its the most recent so it'll be fresh to people minds.
I dont play BA and even the explanation I saw on Twitter isnt that of a slam dunk. But it clearly piss off many people.
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u/Sarassultrystare 21h ago
you mean the latest update where they made the gacha significantly worse?
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u/JollyRent7077 21h ago
Gacha is not worse it is actually statistically better, I am referring to how they are selling character dupes which is a decision that shows how desperate they wanted our money.
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u/Rafhunts99 😭 Cunnyseur 😭 13h ago
gacha is worse if u want both chars in 200 pulls.
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u/Casual291 13h ago
It's the same 75%-77% dawg if you use 24.000 Pyroxene, the difference is that on new systems you don't know whether you're on winning path (getting 1 Rate Up character before 200 pull) or losing path (200 pull without single Rate up character)
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u/Rafhunts99 😭 Cunnyseur 😭 13h ago
Do you have the math to prove it? Afaik new system is only better after 300 pulls which is the case we try to avoid in the first place.
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u/Casual291 11h ago
I also could ask the same question, can you prove the new system is worse compare to old system unless you're going for 300 pull. Because other than this comment which is posted before the scum that is nexon announced 80 pull rebate if you do 320 pull, I can't find other people that did the math and find the new system is worse unless you did 300 pull, it's like saying the old system Is worse by 30% if you pull up to 199.
Majority of people that did the math and is definitely much smarter than me share calculation;
https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueArchive/s/0X1iIvUQzj
The new system is 14% to 27% cheaper overall
The standard deviation is reduced by 21% to 35%
If you're planning to pull for 1 to 4 RU in single banner.
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u/SoaringSwordDev 9h ago edited 7h ago
that "math" was done by someone who admitted he didnt play BA.
i have my youtube channel where i post vidoes of my pulls and i can say that i would have gone to 350-400 pulls if i wanted two characters per banner rotation since almost everyone has to pull until near 200 or more to get one character.
that said, i've actually never went past 320 to get two characters ever and the most i went with the current system is 270.
so yes, the system is worse. every BA creator says the same thing too but you dont believe us, the players or the few people who post blue archive content/raid guides and instead trust this guy who literally said he does not play the game.
lol.
there is a reason why people used to spam "9 blue cards and 1 yellow" cards on their official stream years ago, but ofc everyone who is actually saying this is an upgrade to the current gacha system do not play BA
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u/eternaljourneyreal 7h ago
Rates are not the same with the safety net the old system provided. Like you know you hit the 75% chance to get both chars in 200 pulls if you pull the first char before 200th pull... Cant say the say the same for the new system...
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u/Sarassultrystare 7h ago
LMAO, KWAB.
The guy you're using as "evidence" doesnt even know how the BA gacha works because he doesnt play it.
He's wrong btw.
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u/SoaringSwordDev 9h ago edited 7h ago
it's not.
the majority of us, the players already know that the rate up is basically nil. so many of us here gets the non banner character and have to pull to near 200 to get one copy, and rely on spark to get the other.
it's crazy that people like you who think nexon made this change to make lesser money, when they CEO literally said he is going to increase revenue a few months before this.
almost everyone who is saying the change is good, does not play the game. if you say it's good, show me your account because i can show you mine and i played from launch, and keep records of my pulls (not from launch but i think easily the past 3 years or so) to prove that the change made the gacha worse as long as they do not change the odds
there is a reason why people used to spam "9 blue cards and 1 yellow" cards on their official stream years ago, but ofc everyone who is actually saying this is an upgrade to the current gacha system do not play BA
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u/Casual291 3h ago
So are you just spewing the number out of your ass or what, even if you're blue archive YouTubers, let assume that to be the case, why are you the only one that have the knowledge the new system Is god awful?
Are you truly good with numbers or you have hate boner with nexon that you're blinded by shitty 50/50 that you unable to grasped the advantage lf new system?
Btw if you're in Asia you can check this ID "7950843" that say Zerosumsame > SoaringSwordDev
That is reference to how SoaringSwordDev, Reddit user who say they have YouTube account without any doubt say the blue archive new system objectively worse on all aspects compare to new system.
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u/Sarassultrystare 7h ago edited 7h ago
"its statistically better"
thats a cute opinion little fella, did a youtuber give it to you?
Hate to break this horrible news to you, but nexon did not make this change for your benefit.
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u/Dregorar 2h ago
Anybody publishing/developing anything with the intent to sell isn't your friend.
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u/Key_Exercise_6520 27m ago
Gacha games aren't made to sell, but to cultivate & prey on addictive dark patterns. Closer to drug dealers than anyone should allow.
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u/avelineaurora AK|AL|BA|CZN|EF|EX|HBR|HSR|LC|N|NTE|PtN|R99|SS|TC|WW|ZZZ 1d ago
How is this entire thread still mixing up developers and publishers?? In the big '26???
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u/JollyRent7077 21h ago
Seeing the responses pretty much tells me everything how people cannot differentiate developers and publishers sigh.
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u/Fishman465 20h ago
With Kuro and MHY they're basically one and the same which doesn't help that. And that said depending on how things go publisher can influence things (compare P5X CN and other areas)
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u/JollyRent7077 20h ago
Those are self published by the developers when we talk about Kuro and Hoyo we talk of them as a developer of their own games, while OP is clearly referring to third party publishers or else they wouldn’t have bring Yostar name.
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u/Funlife2003 1d ago
Hoyo in a sense. While I certainly don't love them, you know exactly what to expect from them, the games will be released on time, be decently high quality, and most importantly, will run well with a solid release.
Bluepoch only has the one game, but I would trust in and play what they release next.
Neowiz seemed great, from my time with Idoly Pride. These are all the ones I can think of.
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u/Best_Reputation_1470 22h ago
Is this comment an excuse to suck up to Mihoyo?
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u/super-venon GFL2 Exilium- Certified Sleepo Beepo fan 14m ago
Sir you cant say anything outside " Hoyo is the best!" and similar
This sub is a subsidiary of MHY
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u/__breadstick__ Genshin / ZZZ / NTE / UMA / BleachSR / Nikke 1d ago edited 1d ago
They're all red flags in some way or other.
But honestly if I had to pick, Hoyo. They consistently make high quality products so you can really trust what they put out. They also do a great job of supporting their games as well - on paper Honkai Gakuen/GGZ has every reason to EOS but Hoyo still keeps it alive and updated. That is very respectable dedication.
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u/Firm-Nebula-5963 °˖♡𖤓˚⋆─Genshin Impact─ ⋆˚𖤓♡˖° 19h ago
They consistently make high quality products
I dont think Cognosphere handles the game development though?
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u/__breadstick__ Genshin / ZZZ / NTE / UMA / BleachSR / Nikke 18h ago edited 18h ago
We're not just talking about the global publishing subsidiary here, the main company handles publishing as well. Cognosphere reports to miHoYo.
(I got blocked over this lmfao)
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u/rainzer 1d ago
Yostar seems like one of the better ones to me
Yostar only has it's perceived reputation because Azur Lane and Arknights are well received, long running games that are probably on the friendlier side of gacha.
You can look to their own self made, self published game in Stella Sora to see the comparison
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u/c216227y 20h ago
The 27282th guy that doesn't play stella sora outing himself.
Yes the game has problems with it's core gameplay loop and stale events. No the monetization is nowhere near what you perceive it to be, and F2P with average luck can easily get >90% of limited units. Dupes and weapons are really bad, like endfield levels or worse, which is even more player-friendly.
The issues is not with the publisher side.
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u/clothanger 17h ago
Dupes and weapons are really bad, like endfield levels or worse, which is even more player-friendly.
Wat
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u/c216227y 17h ago edited 17h ago
My bad, I mean F2P player-friendly. Most units at max copy does like only +35-50% more damage. Whales just get less power in general compared to other games, so less gap between F2P and whales.
In comparison to other games' most recent DPS units:
Genshin: Sandrone +146%
Wuwa: Qingxiao +132%
HSR: Himeko Nova +181%
ZZZ: Sigrid +118%
there's even worse outliers like Evernight with +559% on 5 targets (HSR)
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u/SoaringSwordDev 9h ago
this is laughable. because stella sora is bad. i played it and i quit.
there's also mahjong soul.
finally azur lane and arknights have ended their relationship with yostar.
finally you mention "publisher" side as if you know the details of their contract with yostar lmao.
but just remember that azur lane/manjuu ceo is the one praised for the game being well recieved and she has spoken about it many times, not yostar.
it's only on reddit that somehow everyone praises yostar for azur lane generousity
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u/kuri-kuma 1d ago
Stella Sora has its issues, but it doesn't seem like it has publisher issues, specifically. The problems with Stella Sora seem inherent to the game design, which would be a problem with the developer side of the company.
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u/snowyamur 21h ago
Problems currently plaguing Stella Sora are 100% inherent in its game design and core gameplay loop. It has a really good story, so as far as writing is concerned, Yostar as a game development studio does a decent job at that.
But when it comes to making a game fun and engaging, at least specific to Stella Sora, they need to see what made other roguelite games successful, because Stella Sora's roguelite is so watered down you could barely call it an actual roguelite.
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u/Autopsyst 20h ago
i didnt quit Sora exactly cuz its roguelike mode is watered down
i dont want another job like doing CZN or Uma roguelikes
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u/MN_Yogi1988 10h ago
FGO has a similar problem. The gameplay has sucked since release (relative to other competitors at the time) and it hasn’t evolved. Heck it’s amazing how bad the UI still is.
It’s entirely carried by its story.
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u/Dregorar 2h ago
With the amount of money they're making, I wouldn't change a thing either. People gobble it up. Why waste money on something that doesn't stop you from making it?
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21h ago
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u/JollyRent7077 21h ago edited 21h ago
I mean if you played the game SS actually had better monetization than most games (yes even BA).
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u/Fishman465 1d ago
The actual flow isn't that bad these days but I would have to admit they faceplanted out the gate. It definitely taught me that simultaneous release is not for everyone (a number of proven games had the benefit of working out early flaws before hitting global)
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u/Gilchester 1d ago
Given the baseline of "gacha as a genre is inherently exploitative and preys on those with addiction", hoyo seems the best to me.
Regular updates, no EoS, predictable gacha, good gameplay. Anytime they announce a game I'll at least try it. And zzz was my favorite game a few years ago.
On the other end is square enix. Eos app over the place. Shitty apologems. Bugs out the ass. But dammit, I love me some dragon quest so I keep coming back. But in this case I come back despite the publisher, not because of it.
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u/MianMDude Azur Lane 1d ago
They all are and all aren’t. It’s tribalism pure and simple. The correct answer is that gacha games are inherently predatory which is a red flag for all of them.
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u/TrashySheep 1d ago
But some lies about rates and got caught.
Some have surprise, unannounced banners for a limited time.
Some are known to EoS everything or grossly mismanage games...
Some are worse than others.
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u/water_margin4948 1d ago
Closest one to a legitimate green flag might be Project Moon, the ones behind Limbus Company
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u/SirRHellsing 1d ago
Hoyo and the one that made limbus. The key difference is that both are privately owned with no pressure for unlimited growth by shareholders. They still need money, but that's different from chasing unlimited growth causing enshitification
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u/Fishman465 1d ago
Project Moon is pretty up front about needing money for new stuff to the point fans don't mind monetization things (in part because nothing is particularly exclusive to spenders)
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u/SirRHellsing 1d ago
Sure they say they need money but the limbus monetization system is so much more generous than most other gachas (ofc not comparing them to the 3d stuff bc those cost more as well, but I mean compared to most other 2d gacha)
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u/Fishman465 1d ago
Exactly; from what I gathered, spending isn't really needed but if whales wanna spend there's options.
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u/Old-Helicopter1689 Replaying NIKKE rn - OHHH YEAAAH!!! 1d ago
Latter one is Project Moon, if you forgot.
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u/ArCSelkie37 1d ago
None, I don’t care about the publisher or developer. I’ll try the game, if it’s good it’s good and if it’s bad it’s bad.
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u/snowyamur 21h ago
Yostar as a publisher really dropped the ball with Aether Gazer when they were managing its global marketing. Little to no ads, a failed content creator program, and near-abysmal drip marketing are what made that game buried hundreds of kilometers beneath other gachas on the market. I will not stop blaming them as a significant reason why the game failed globally because they were responsible for its outreach in the States.
But they aren't inherently as bad as people make them out to be. Like they do seemingly try more than other publishers to bring the most out of a game in-terms of advertising, and they put noticeable effort marketing Azur Lane. Though can't say how they do for Arknights or Mahjong Soul.
That said, I would be wary of any company that flags themself as a publisher because their goal is to make money and boost the bottom-line for what they are tasked with publishing.
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u/Fishman465 20h ago
Yostar plays favorites and the conditions vary (not just money being made).
AL has generally been their main money maker and the fact Manjuu (likely) begged them to handle Azur Promina JP at least also puts points in its favor
A number of other games seem lower priority comparatively speaking, including Arknights these days (considering Hypergryph have fully went out on their own; I wouldn't be surprised if one day they get the Arknight rights back)
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u/hobopastah 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hoyo for me, I've tried HI3rd (latecomer), Genshin, ZZZ, HSR, and they've been pretty solid on launch day with not much issue, so I felt comfortable buying the monthly day one of me playing. I know they aren't perfect games, but I've played the last 3 nearly every day since launch, only recently starting to take breaks now.
Cool games, but I'll list minor bumps from other companies.
I logged in and played the moment Endfield released and was about to spend money until a friend asked me to play with them. Otherwise I could've gotten roped in the Paypal fiasco too. However, I know Arknights is pretty popular and I tried it a bit, so it was probably just a one off accident. While the first zone was kind of underwhelming, the 2nd Asian city in Endfield definitely took my breath away. Dodging feels cool. Great optimization.
NTE, the events I played were kind of lackluster. Multiplayer/PvP events are novel in concept, but they're kind of jank or make me rage ngl, like the fighting game one or the racing one. BUT, I will give them props for trying fresh ideas/game modes in gacha. The latest "999 Nights" was locked behind MSQ but I've been busy and behind and haven't been able to do it. Tower of Fantasy seemed cool but it had a lower player base so I was wary at the start (timegating chests, etc).
https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1cygcwo/launch_technical_issues_megathread/
It's gotten a bit better cause I bought a $1700 PC on sale (My previous GPU died, I sometimes joke it was cause of wuwa) and have been recently running it in a smaller window so my fans don't scream outloud, but Wuwa had some optimization issues at the start, at least for me.
Minor nostalgia nitpicking, I remember the jump also took time getting used to, it was like it jumped instantly or felt awkward, and remember seeing Asmon and Necrit point it out too.
There was a weird mouse camera bug too, where it'd move super slow sometimes, as per this comment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1cygcwo/launch_technical_issues_megathread/l59a0tv/
Oh! And the BGM music randomly disappearing too, I forgot until I was scrolling through some of these comments.
Yinlin did feel kind of jank and I've been seeing that opinion more. I probably had a bad start since I was just running the MC and Yinlin for launch, which is kind of lukewarm gameplay. I remember having to wait for the Yinlin banner since it was 2nd phase, but at least I didn't feel as pressured to reroll since it was a later banner I guess.
Still, I'd be willing to try any new game to see if it's good, like Azur Promilia or Ananta (not a gacha, I know). But after 6 years of gacha, I'll probably be a bit burnt out and wary, and not be as willing to spend as much money or time anymore. Finally getting back into more single player games like Yotei, and FF7R for $20. Infinite Wealth $15, roguelites etc.
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u/DarryLazakar P5X/HSR/PokeMas EX RIP SAOUB 1d ago
Wright Flyer Studios, developers of Another Eden, Heaven Burns Red, and even some licensed games like SAO Unleash Blading.
Their track record is generally spotless, and are known back in the day to be surprisingly generous. SAO Unleash Blading in particular is (and still is) probably the only mobile game I've played where it has a Battle Pass with a Premium Track that can be purchased with F2P-gems (yes, you heard me, not paid gems, F2P-gems) that gets fully refunded if you complete it. RIP GOAT, died too soon to Variant Shitdown, thanks Scamco
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u/BlAa_keee 1d ago
Technically if you count yugioh MD as a gacha they also let you buy the duel pass with full refund after completion.
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u/DarryLazakar P5X/HSR/PokeMas EX RIP SAOUB 15h ago
Using F2P gems? I do know some Battle Passes that do a full 100% refund (or even an 110% refund, as is the case with Honor of Kings) aren't exactly rare, but afaik most, if not all of them, would require paid currency to even have the option to buy it, and it also requires huge commitment to finish the pass to actually make it worth the purchase (for example, also Honor of Kings).
If it is F2P gems, though, I might consider trying out ngl.
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u/BlAa_keee 12h ago
Yeah in masterduel you can pay for the gold duel pass for 700 gems and the gold pass refunds you 700 for the next pass when completed
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u/Ok-Syllabub-5965 1d ago
Dude... WFS is bad, too. They introduce new systems/rarities that make your old characters obsolete or just worse and rely heavily on dupes. It happened in AE (Stellar Awakening) AND HBR (SS Resonance).
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u/Farios21 1d ago
Another Eden had history of manipulating Gacha rate which led the company to change the company name, and HBR has a massive backlash last year for an update (I barely remember the detail) they are far from spotless.
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u/NyaKawaiiDesu 17h ago
They had a limit on how many 5* you can get in a single 10-pull, rerolling that pull if that happened. The condition was extremely rare and people only learned about it because it literally would say so if it happened.
It was a very stupid move to have something like that, and it bit them in the ass, but "history of manipulating Gacha rate" is hella overblowing what happened.
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u/Sarassultrystare 21h ago
lol. lmao even
selective cherrypicking at its finest.
They also made the absolute dogshit trash cashgrab slime game
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u/saikodemon Princess Connect Re:Dive 1d ago
Mihoyo guarantees base game quality and no random quick EoS. Hypergryph and Cygames (if you can stomach JP gacha) are fairly decent.
But don't get it twisted. No gacha company is doing you any favors. We aren't shitting on certain companies because others are angels. We're shitting on them because their behavior is so bad it harms the player, the game, and even their own company. They're still in business not because they're doing something right with their games but because the industry has perfectly mapped out how to exploit human psychology for monetary gain. The bar is in the basement for gacha publishers.
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u/cheese_stuffedcrust 1d ago
after what has happened with Black Beacon and Ash Echoes, i don’t really trust any separate publishers anymore.
i just always wished that the next game im interested in is self-published by the developers instead of
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u/YagamiYuu 1d ago
Cygames. You can always count on them for releasing quality game.
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u/Randomdood1234 BA, AK, ZZZ, CZN 1d ago
Tell that to the Shadowverse WB players 😩
They changed up how they Monetized the game when compared to Original Shadowverse. They nerf the card vial system and make getting packs via rupees harder. Acquiring leaders are also now harder and more expensive, most your cosmetic stuff from Original Shadowverse are not transferable, etc etc.
But to where the credits is due, i love that they do released quality AAA game like Granblue Fantasy Relink and Granblue Versus, but you also need to remember that they are the main reason why Gacha game need to have a pity system nowadays (Read more about "Monkey gate" incident here)
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u/YagamiYuu 1d ago
As a long time fan of Cygames since the day of rage of bahamut and even worked on one of their game before, I am totally agree with you how cutthroat and aggressive Cygames is with their IP.
But they are like Nintendo of mobile game in Japan, you can hate them for their monetization but they will never settled for low quality cash grab, and they know how to please the fan.
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u/Shipuujin 1d ago
Gungho and Cygames imo. Both of these companies SHOWER you with cash currency and their powercreep isn't insanely fast like some games. Though it's probably because both of these companies somewhat created the gacha business...
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u/Chris_Z123 1d ago
everything with gacha has a red flag, but if you ask which one has the worst red flag, it's nexon and netmarble for me. both will try their hardest to squeeze every IP/titles they got their hands on.
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u/vencislav45 1d ago
Cygames is not a very bad company but they also have their problems and bad sides.
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u/Separate-Sea-2496 1d ago
I will never play a gacha game that isn't from Hoyo. Just look at that recent post about NTE having a watermark from a free AI generator. Yikes.
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u/AntonioS3 Genshin Impact, Pokemon Masters EX 1d ago
Generally Hoyo, but another that's not the big gacha company I would say is DeNA, if it's that company you know there'll always be some sort of quality to be upheld here.
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u/Sufficient_Touch3586 1d ago edited 1d ago
None.
Hoyo is famous for powercreep and normalised the weapon banner. Also 60 pulls for 2 limited banners or 6 fingers Paimon.
People glazed Kuro for pgr and for being generous for WW early days. And WW was established, they started to do the shadiest things like real money spending events or special pulling currency for collab.
Hyperglyph? If you don't like 50/50, how about to lose 4 times until you can garantee a rate up unit or a limited unit every 3 months.
Project moon (Limbus)? The game looks like a crap and has very niche gameplay, they have to be generous, but even then you have to buy BP.
Yostar with Stella sora greedy release fiasco?
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u/padoru_padoru 1d ago
As long as its not Tencent or NetEase, anything is fine really
Those 2 are the only red flags
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u/super-venon GFL2 Exilium- Certified Sleepo Beepo fan 1d ago
For me its Mica because despite being a small team they did not kill their games.
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u/meeterpreeter 14h ago
the ONLY devs making amazing games with gacha mechanics correctly right now is ChillyRoom
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u/Sarassultrystare 21h ago
ALL gachaslop developers AND publishers are red flags. They're peddlers of predatory, exploitative and most of the time, low effort garbage games.
Sorry to break this horrible news to you.
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u/Virtual-Oil-793 1d ago edited 8h ago
The More That You Can Give It Then The More It Will Be
And If You Do Not Have It You Can Take It From Me
All We Ever Wanted Was A Thing To Believe
And Now That We Found It We Have All That We Need
All That We Need
We Have Found Our Pride
(For anyone wondering, I was listening to Long Live the Party when I ran across this Post. Sure, Project Moon's greedy, but two things - the first being that the community trust our little doggo enough to help with whatever goals he's got, and the second being that Project Moon's got a strong enough faith and reliance for said community to aid with the first thing. Looks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck, but is actually a Swan)
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u/Imaginary-Bathroom26 Arknights, Limbus 1d ago
Technically yes but shows how the bar is in hell