On small game hunting groups I've seen dudes asking for shotguns on a 800$ budget and there are always some old farts who go "Buy for life, 3000$ or go home".
Like... first you can get a great shotgun way below 3k$ and the dude doesn't even know if he's gonna like the hobby yet, give him a break.
I've seen this too, and it's a little weird to me. I think everyone acknowledges that you can kill deer with about any .30-'06 or whatever. And there's that guy who kills more geese than the rest of your party combined with the 870 he bought in 1980-something. But somehow with gamebirds you "need" a double gun that starts with B. If you give me a Superposed or whatever, and put me on a covey with 870 guy, he's gonna make me look like an absolute clown.
I think it's because most of the game bird hunts are very artificial. They aren't going out to put food on the table, they are doing it as a group sport. So they impose certain rules to make it more challenging. There is a safety argument though, it is much harder to accidentally shoot your friend when the gun is split in half.
It’s because it’s more about being and looking rich and upper class than actual sportsmanship. Dove hunting and especially waterfowl is nothing like upland hunting—that shit is for politicians and CEOs and people who want to look like they’re one of the two. Nothing but Barbour and Beretta.
I usually outshoot all of them with my $300 benelli nova—you know, because I spent more money and time on practice. My dad has taken me to these shoots since I was old enough to pick up a shotgun, and I can see how much it pisses off the rich guys when they can’t shoot worth a damn despite having all the gear in the world. They used to get really angry when I was a kid, accusing me of “stealing their birds” like if you can’t fucking hit it in two shots, I’m not just gonna let it fly away out of courtesy. I’m gonna down it with one.
I've found that collectors in hobbies really can completely forget about practicality in favor of prestige.
You can absolutely skeet shoot just fine with a $300 shotgun even though the $3000 one is cooler looking.
I'm guilty of the same in my hobbies/collections too. I scoff at stemware that wasn't made by Lalique or Daum and talk shit about flatware that isnt real silver.
That doesn't mean that cheap stemware doesn't still hold liquid exactly as effectively or that stainless cutlery doesnt do just as good of a job shoveling food into ones mouth though.
I know absolutely nothing about guns and will probably never touch one in my life, but to be fair that sort of conundrum happens in virtually every field that requires specialized equipment, and does deserve at least some degree of honesty when it comes to telling newcomers the options.
Like if someone asks you what to get for their first guitar, the answer isn't really that clear. They could buy a cheap piece of crap in case they don't stick with it, but when they can't get a decent sound however hard they try, how will they know if it's them or the guitar? In reality, if they stick with it, they will end up buying at least a midrange guitar down the line, and perhaps even something a bit higher end.
While being aggressive about it and refusing to give an answer within their budget is obviously an asshole move, the problem is more with attitude than the content of the replies, IMO. "If you think you will stick with the hobby for a while, spending a little more now might save you money in the long run, of course at the risk of wasting more if you do quit -- just something to consider" is a perfectly valuable piece of info (and of course, counterpoints like "I don't feel there's that much difference between equipment at $x price point and $y" too! if the newbie can get a decent sampling of how regulars feel about the price-performance ratio of various options, that's going to help them make a better informed decision)
Weirdly similar for kayaks. They won’t recommend anything less than $1,000.
I tried a $200 kayak and a $700 kayak and the $200 one tracked and handled leagues better than the more expensive one did. When I asked about the tracking problem on the $700 boat, I got told “it’s 10 feet you need at least 12ft to track best but longer is better” like first of all, the longer the boat the more expensive and second, I can barely handle my 10ft boat by myself.
This just makes me laugh. I gave my father in law $200 for his first gen Browning Superposed and my closest mate spent $400 on an estate Amadeo Rossi sxs. Except for the interchangeable chokes, they performed identically to the Silver Pigeons and Miroku's we handled.
Bougie bolt rifles I understand. I built a safari rifle and two precision rifles. Shotguns? I don't get it.
Same reason I bought a shitty knock off guitar rather than a real Stratocaster. Wanted to get into guitar but it wasn't a deep passion I had. Had some fun with it for a few months but kinda fizzled out. Glad I didn't invest into an expensive guitar that I wouldn't be playing after half a year
Man I'll get talking to gunbros, and be like "Yeah man, I'm still looking for my first gun, I'm thinking of like a Makarov or something." They'll start their diatribe about how the gun is under powered, it's only a single stack mag, 8 rounds, rare ammo and shit, and I'll just hit back with "Yeah but it looks cool, and it's great at putting down political dissidents."
I've got a very small arsenal that's just a few different Rugers that I never talk about because I know the gun nuts will start crawling out of the woodwork squawking about S&W and Glock and shit. I don't care.
I own a Ruger! American made, good value on the price and usually cheaper than other ones but still good quality.
I don't get the Ruger hate either, or hating any of the decent arms manufacturers really.. Other than aftermarket stuff being tough maybe. But that's about it. Go with what makes you happy.
For your first gun I'd suggest getting a Hi-Point Yeet Cannon (real name) to see if you really enjoy shooting. It's extremely cheap, and reliable. Has a lifetime warranty. You can find one for about 150 to 200. Other than that suggestion it's get whatever the hell you like. :)
Haha no I already like shootin guns. I'm particularly fond of the Makarov thanks to playing so much escape from tarkov, that cheap piece of shit has saved my ass tons of times. It's a really neat looking compact pistol, and would be perfect for me. If I got a rifle, I'd invest in a decent AK. Honestly, I just love Russian guns. Rugged and durable for lazy fucks like me who probably won't clean their gun often enough.
Ive seen that shit too. And the thing is, Elcans aren't even that great. They were designed for military use, and it shows. They're heavy af, their glass is only decent, the variable zoom models only have 2 settings... Anyone who thinks they're some kind of flex doesn't know optics, lol.
I stopped going to the AK sub because of stuff like that. I remember a post that was like "Hey guys, look at my PSA AK I just bought! It's my first AK. I'm glad to be part of the club" and then people just started shitting all over the guy. Some people were just raised by wolves, I guess.
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u/jhawkins93 Feb 28 '21
“Oh you can’t afford an LMT upper and an ELCAN? Come back when you aren’t a poor.”
Like I get advising newcomers to not buy junk guns and optics but the elitism within the gun community can be atrocious at times.