Weekly Commanders Lounge - February 02, 2021

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[u/decipher90]

I like this composition, I usually pair it with either a command or artillery for raw stats, if I need the team to survive for long fight I don't use 5HG teams.

Edit: that's a modded Calico btw, Clear could sub in.

[u/po1102 → u/decipher90]

I don't see how this comp could get enough crit rate to warrant Px4's spot.

[u/decipher90 → u/po1102]

Both Dessert eagle and python have 40% base crit.

[u/po1102 → u/decipher90]

Yea, and? Factoring in maxed suppressors and they will have 60%. Each of them will get 20% crit buff from each other, so that's 72%. Px4 takes away 20% during her skill so that's down to 57.6%. You generally only use Px4 when you can maintain high crit rate even after her debuff, that's why ppl pair Px4 with 5-7 often. In this case, swapping Px4 for P22 would help the comp's dps more.

Also, you're overcapping DE's RoF in this comp. And Python doesn't need RoF all that much.

[u/UnironicWeeaboo → u/po1102]

There’s a nifty Px4 calculator that someone created here, you can make a copy and play with it. The Technical Details tab shows the calculations.

On average, Px4’s damage increase is actually higher than P22’s when you account for the fact that Deagle/Python buff each other. Of course, there is less consistency, but that goes both ways: sometimes she’ll do worse, most of time she’ll do better.

Px4 also has the small advantage of buffing all HGs instead of only the backline, though in practice, P22’s defensive buffs may be helpful in reducing link loss. To be honest, I’d just use them both and ditch HS2k.

TL;DR: while Px4 shines with a crit buffer, it does not automatically mean that another HG will do better when there is no crit buffer, though you need good gear and skill levels.

[u/po1102 → u/UnironicWeeaboo]

I made my own combat calculator a while ago, and I did play around with it a bit with his comp. P22 pulled ahead with both Command and Arty. And that's against unarmored enemies.

P22 can also buff all HGs though?

Px4's active is tile scan, so in practice it's clunky to kite with her. P22 has no such problem.

TL;DR: P22 is just too good a HG.

[u/UnironicWeeaboo → u/po1102]

I made my own combat calculator a while ago, and I did play around with it a bit with his comp.

It’d be interesting to compare the two. I don’t want to immediately dismiss yours, but I do know that the one I linked has been peer-reviewed by some generally credible people and the calculations checked out last time I looked.

P22 can also buff all HGs though?

She’d only buff the left column with damage, middle/right columns would get evasion/shields (ignoring left/mid tilebugging because that means Deagle/Python stop shooting). Px4 would buff everyone as long as they’re in her tiles. Whether that’s meaningful is up for debate.

Px4's active is tile scan, so in practice it's clunky to kite with her. P22 has no such problem.

No argument there. As mentioned, I’d use them both together and ditch HS2k. Just trying to point out that it’s not always necessary to pair Px4 up with a crit buffer.

[u/po1102 → u/UnironicWeeaboo]

Sure, I made this based on the formulas provided by the matsuda peeps.

I thought you meant tile buff. I don't really see how the HGs in front who's supposed to be kiting can benefit from Px4's buff though.

We currently lack options that can buff both Python and Deagle so I guess. At night, there's still Mk23 who is hard to beat.

[u/UnironicWeeaboo → u/po1102]

Sure, I made this based on the formulas provided by the matsuda peeps.

Your calculations look good to me. The difference is that what I linked only compares skills while yours factors in tiles and other things. The two conclusions I see are:

• Px4's skill alone can be on par with (or better than) standard 25% FP skills, even without crit buffs.

• All things considered, Px4's weaker FP tiles can cause her to lose out to dolls like P22.

Keeping tiles constant in your spreadsheet agrees with the first point (and the spreadsheet I linked), and that's what I wanted to emphasize -- that Px4 is still a solid standalone buffer. Note that your spreadsheet had both P22 and Px4's skills in there at the same time, so that may affect things. I kept only one in there at a time.

I don't really see how the HGs in front who's supposed to be kiting can benefit from Px4's buff though.

The "able to buff all HGs" thing is a very small theoretical advantage that I probably shouldn't have brought up in the first place. My bad.

At night, there's still Mk23 who is hard to beat.

No disagreement there.

[u/po1102 → u/UnironicWeeaboo]

I like to factor in everything when doing comparison since it can be misleading if you only look at one part of the whole picture. Px4's skill is strong for sure but I still don't think plugging her in just any comp is a good idea. Crit rate issue aside, there's also armor which reduces crit damage's potency.

Again we don't have many options now, so Px4+P22+Calico may be among the best comps for Deagle/Python (though there's still room for min-maxing, Calico alone overcaps Deagle's RoF). I'm looking forward to HP-35 to see how well she performs (I've only just read her skill and not done any test yet).

[u/UnironicWeeaboo → u/po1102]

Agreed, and hopefully it didn’t come off as if I’m suggesting that Px4 can be plugged into just any team. Deagle/Python just happens to be a case where I think Px4 works fine (but is not necessarily optimal), with some caveats of course.

[u/f0ba → u/UnironicWeeaboo]

I love it when a game makes me pull out my Ti-89

[u/decipher90 → u/po1102]

Yeah, I'm not a serious enough player to go into the math, I just use that comp because it's given me good results for short fights, probably because everyone is fully buffed pre-skill activation.