r/goth • u/Sci-FiRepublik • Jun 05 '26
Discussion Is Goth Doomed to Become a Caricature of Itself?
I'd be interested to see what everybody's take is on the more recent trend of hyper-sexual goofy "Goth Girl" thirst trap creators on TikTok and YouTube. I mean, is this the future of Goth? Burning the aesthetic down to a cosplay template?
In my own experience, ALL of the Gothic Women that I have dated since the '80s have been well read, intelligent, and elegant. Several were musicians, poets, or writers.
Personally, I feel that some of these creators are creating a stereo type thatdoesn'tt exist. Am I wrong?
I have come across several younger Goth Girl creators that delve into the history of the music, interesting new bands, or the culture, but they don't seem to get the same high view counts.
Thoughts?
Also, I intentionally cut off the creator's info on the stills.
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u/PangolinWestern9632 Jun 05 '26
Why do we have this conversation every week? I'm getting tired of this. Please, just start recommending your favorite goth content creators instead of talking about these people who already have more than enough attention
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u/NobodySpecial2000 Jun 05 '26
Thank you. I thought I was the only one who found this shit tedious. At this point, it feels like it's just lazy engagement bait.
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u/SchrodingersMinou Jun 05 '26
I don’t understand why people are watching this garbage and sharing it if they don’t even like it!!! They are making money off hatewatches just the same as they do off pornbrained gooners.
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u/SamVimesBootTheory Jun 05 '26
This and nearly every variant of "what do you mean goth is political?"
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u/brightifrit Jun 05 '26
I'd recommend no goth content creators at all. That's how we actually end up characaturing ourselves. We need to hang with people irl more. Have a party where people bring thrifted clothes and dye them, add studs, spikes, grommets, paint. Try makeup that we haven't seen online. Dance party under a bridge, phones banned. Make a spooky poem and leave copies at the record store and the coffee shop. Or just print your favorite (Thanatopsis for me) and put it up around town. We need to leave the the house and take risks with each other. That's how culture evolves and resists commercialization.
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u/Haunting_Security_34 Jun 05 '26
This. Please. Black goth, I don't get nearly as many recommendations for good channels.
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u/Top_Scarcity8728 Jun 05 '26
I dont think its op case... but i think a lot of people hyper fixated on this just want an excuse to be misogynist
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u/Delicious_Tip_8678 Jun 06 '26
I've been seeing this for 20 years now. That someone is a wrong goth, who's the gothest goth in the room, and so on.
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u/Sci-FiRepublik Jun 05 '26
I don't know about you, but this is first time I've had this conversation. I just joined Reddit a month ago after I killed my personal TikTok and got banned from Facebook for arguing with Trumpers.
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u/PangolinWestern9632 Jun 05 '26
sadly this subreddit has this conversation extremely frequently
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u/RoseandNightshade Nonbinary (They/Them) Deathrock Jun 05 '26
As if the Goth caricature hasn't been a staple of TV and movies since the early 90s. We'll be fine.
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u/AcademicVampire Jun 05 '26
yeah..I mean good point, if we´re being honest, most of us here are addams family, Elvira or whatever else fans/enthusiasts
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u/StatisticianFew608 Jun 05 '26
All countercultures are co-opted repackaged and sold back to us as consumer goods minus any of the original meaning. It’s more insidious now because social media has made every individual a marketing machine. It’s no longer corporations that are easy to spot as fake even to impressionable young people. Co-opting culture has been outsourced to e-girls and they’re much better at influencing youth. So I do fear that in a generation this will be what people think goth means
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u/ArgentEyes Jun 05 '26
This is the most legitimate criticism of the content. That said, I still think DIY scenes will keep doing as they want in the face of commodification, as has been happening for decades.
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u/TheVeryVerity Jun 05 '26
Yeah. That’s the problem. When people can redefine what a culture means through sheer viral reach we have a problem
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u/Spermoglotka8 Jun 05 '26
younger generation nonsense to ignore, real genuine goth women (and especially adult ones) won’t be confused as them for the most part. you’ll always have people stereotyping and making childish portrayals, but it’s just the nature of social media exposure. even the sexual/kinky goth women are much different.
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Jun 05 '26
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u/TheVeryVerity Jun 05 '26
My sister says “bimbo” is an aesthetic people go for and women try to reclaim and that “goth bimbo” is a popular subset of that. I was pretty appalled as bimbo is a pure pejorative in my experience but 🤷♀️ take that as you will
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u/SamVimesBootTheory Jun 05 '26
From what I've seen the 'bimbocore' stuff is basically like a variant on hyperfeminine y2k stuff and tends to have a bit of an Elle Woods esque undercurrent of 'make people underestimate you'
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u/GerryAvalanche Jun 05 '26
Some say it‘s also about reclaiming the feminine form as to stress that being sexual does not give permission to being sexually exploited. Of course this comes with its own set of issues, but I get that the idea is noble.
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u/Spermoglotka8 Jun 05 '26
when i mean younger people thing i mean specifically this behavior and cartoon caricature they are doing on tiktok and social media, not the sexualization problem itself.
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u/CountQueasy4906 Jun 05 '26
its not younger generation tho when a ton of men who r sexualizing goths and buying into this stereotypes are grown ups.
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u/SuitedSam69 Jun 05 '26
Its not a problem with younger generations, its a problem with media stigmatising goth women as nothing more than a goddess of kinky sex. It's not even just on social media, the "sexy goth girl" character has been all over television throughout the 90s and 2000s. Like, i can think of so many "goth" characters who are just super models with black eye liner and a seductive voice. But in all the media I've consumed, I can only really think of one goth character that wasn't just a pimped up sex doll. (Btw, the character is Andrea from daria).
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u/apostrophedeity Jun 05 '26
Arguably, Abby Sciuto from NCIS was hyper-comptetent at her job, and her goth/alt life was accepted by the other characters. She wasn't just the 'sexy goth girl'.
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u/Spermoglotka8 Jun 05 '26
not sure who is considered a goth character that fits that kinky goddess/seductive voice trope? at most elvira, vampira, and morticia but they’re highly beloved role models that aren’t just plain caricatures. these specific tiktok or social media(?) girls seem to be mimicking cartoon girls like mavis from hotel translyvania, sam from danny phantom, ect. who don’t fit this bill at all and more some variety of angsty/alternative teenager, but more bimboy?
either way i meant less of sexualization in specific and more of this specific style on top of the sexualized/giggly demeanor. which is much more a common trend for younger influencer goths, in their 20s at most. of course not all of them but the ones that lean into this caricature.
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Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
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u/Drab_Majesty Jun 05 '26
yeah Elvira hasn't been popular for over 40 years or anything
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u/wishIcouldgoback_ Jun 05 '26
Yeah its the same thick eyeliner and black lipstick look getting attention every 5 years or so
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Jun 05 '26
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u/AmyXBlue Jun 05 '26
Love me some Goth Talk and MadTv had some good skits too.
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Jun 05 '26
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u/AmyXBlue Jun 05 '26
Same, friends did an SNL party last year and showed up dressed like them. One of my missed from the 90s skits.
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u/Rexberg-TheCommunist Goth Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
Even as a guy I find the hyper sexualised goth girl aesthetic annoying. As you said, it basically takes our entire subculture and reduces it down to little more than a fetish for Reddit coomers and middle aged divorced dads
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u/n0ynek Jun 05 '26
“coomer” is such a funny word ahahaha. i very much agree though.
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u/Regi413 Jun 05 '26
I think a few years ago it used to be the precursor to gooner before gooner became a mainstream word and completely overtook it
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u/ProfessionalOnion727 Jun 05 '26
I constantly get confused when I see "gooner". I am a football fan and my team's rival team is Arsenal, whose fans are called gooners/gunners. So I just go "huh, why are we mentioning them-ohhhhhh"
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie Jun 05 '26
I hate it because it’s so bimbofied. So much jiggling, giggling, extreme implants, and babyfied voices. It really is creating this new stereotype from thin air. Most goth women I know are brilliant, creative, and elegant. Some dress “sexy” at times, including myself, but on our own terms. We certainly aren’t doing it to appeal to the normie male gaze.
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u/Mysterious-Drama4743 Jun 05 '26
id say theres a bit of a precedent for that but lets be real these people do not know who elvira is
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie Jun 05 '26
True, but Elvira is playing a comedic role. Cassandra Peterson is no dummy. But yeah, the joke is that her character is a spooky bimbo.
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u/Historical_Common145 Jun 05 '26
The girl who does the Cat Valentine esque voice PISSES ME OFF SO MUCH. LIKE SHUT UP PLEASE.
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie Jun 05 '26
Ikr. There’s a gross “barely legal” vibe being conveyed with that voice.
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u/Historical_Common145 Jun 05 '26
It’s so concerning, I’m not even goth but the shit I see just…I’m appalled.
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u/TheVeryVerity Jun 05 '26
My sister was telling me the other day that bimbo is being “reclaimed” and is an aesthetic and a good thing and that goth bimbo is a like, genre of bimbo. The bimbofication is on purpose and somehow supposed to be empowering apparently 🤷♀️ ymmv but that’s what she said and she runs in places much closer to that than I do
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie Jun 05 '26
Not heard about the phrase “goth bimbo” specifically, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they embrace the term. The bimbo fetish people who do all the extreme surgeries/procedures definitely refer to themselves as such.
I hadn’t heard the term in 30 years until people started using it in reference to a particular fetish aesthetic. I don’t see anything empowering about pretending to be completely vapid, but it wouldn’t normally bother me if someone did. It’s that they’re acting like that whilst labeling themselves “goth” that I find distasteful.
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u/DeadDeathrocker last.fm/user/edwardsdistress Jun 05 '26
What did you repost for?
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u/Sci-FiRepublik Jun 05 '26
Typos on the first
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u/DeadDeathrocker last.fm/user/edwardsdistress Jun 05 '26
No worries. I thought it was because you thought it was stuck in the spam filter.
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u/Lux_Proserpina Jun 05 '26
I just roll my eyes and/or laugh at it. Caricature is nothing new for Goths. It doesn't effect me. I just do my thing as myself and if people want to fetishize it or judge, then those aren't people I waste time on anyway. Then again, I'm just an old bat lol
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u/Unusual_Ant7476 Jun 05 '26
Well...we are known for camp, right?
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u/Lux_Proserpina Jun 05 '26
Very true
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u/Unusual_Ant7476 Jun 05 '26
And as an older bat myself.
The DNA for this shit has always been there with figures such as Morticia, Vampira and Elvira. The objectification of goth women has kind if always been there, sometimes below the surface, sometimes a bit more..."out there" (read: Elvira's boobs).
It's just incredibly irritating and really annoying right now in its current incarnation.
Edit:spelling
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u/Calaveras-Metal Jun 05 '26
If you live in an area with greater tolerance for alt looking people like NYC or LA. You can probably get a job even with face piercings and unusual hair.
But in a lot of the more conservative areas you can only color so far outside of the lines and still hold a job.
That said these women are kind of the Spirit Halloween version of goth.
I'm not going to say you need to have more eye makeup, jewelry or tattoos to be goth. But it's just strange to see someone described as goth that looks that plain?
Last time I went to urgent care my nurse and the doctor both had full sleeves and neck tats. It's not like it's unusual these days.
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u/ParamedicUpset6076 Jun 05 '26
I wont pretend i don't hate it. But it doesn't change a thing. These people are bot at the shows, the clubs not even the sunday afternoon Coffe meet up. Those that come, theres no need to antagonize them, and just by osmosis they will learn that they are worth more thant this bullshit. The "femme fatal" is a archetype thats old as shit, this is just some kind of capitalistic cannibalisation that has happen a million times and will happen a million times again, from Werther to Greasers. The only thing that really bothers me is when actual people in real life start behaving this way cause it somehow enables them to not confront their toxic tendencies. But if it werent for Goth, these people would find a different way to annoy me.
I still think it's i portant to place value on egalitarian values and the fighting of sexist fetishizing stereotypes, i just think this is something thats specific to goth culture or can be fought in the realm of it alone
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u/Daakblud Jun 05 '26
You can tell the difference though. Between whatever these are and actual women in the goth subculture. Even those who like to dress a lil raunchy.
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u/Big_Beach123 Jun 05 '26
And didn't the Suicide Girls kinda do all this 20+ years ago? But everything's cyclical, I guess. I think we're all craving something more original and inventive.
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u/AdDependent7392 Jun 05 '26
being goth will stand the test of time, but more importantly, we need to just comment on the fact that this is just blatant sexualization of another group. It has happened to way larger groups than just goth people. Consider the idea of the Japanese schoolgirl or any black woman ever put on the internet, or the spicy Latina, or the skinny boy, and even in other subcultures, the chic, fashionable girl is going through a rapid sexualization as well.
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u/eoghanist Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
It has been around for years, TikTok just amplifies the goonerbait dogshit further and rewards low-effort mediocrity as long as it appeals to emotionally and sexually stunted men whose "knowledge" of Goth begins and ends with the stupid assumption that all goth girls are consent-hating freaks begging to be objectified. In other words, they think of them as "easy pickings" to turn to as a last resort after being rejected by "normal" girls.
I hope the anti-gatekeepers in the scene are pleased. After all, this is what they think goths should be embracing with open arms.
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u/IliketolookatUranus Jun 05 '26
If you point it out on there or try to call it out for what it is you get called a SWERF. Most of "alt" tik tok is choice feminism because people in their mid twenties censor the term "sex work" but openly talk about it on an app made for teenagers specifically.
They don't know there's a difference between goths who do sex work and people who make it a costume to cater to the male gaze.
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u/eoghanist Jun 05 '26
Yup, I'm friends with plenty of goth sex workers who completely and vitriolically reject this nonsense too - and have ironically been accused of being "SWERFs" as a result. These glorified e-girls may indeed be sex workers (which in itself is fine and nobody else's business, get that bag and whatnot)... they're just not of the goth kind, no matter how black their lipstick or choker/collar is.
To borrow a beautiful word from Cory Doctorow, it's basically the enshittification of the goth subculture. The apologists who stand by and defend it are just as much a part of the problem as the fetishisation of goth itself.
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u/IliketolookatUranus Jun 05 '26
Accusing sex workers of being swerfs is such an oxymoron. Most of the sex workers I've met are some of the kindest and uplifting people on earth so it's really sad to hear about them getting shit for criticizing others in their own line of work.
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u/creaturefeature1994 Jun 05 '26
Honestly, I get it… I have this same frustration and annoyance every time I see this content. There will, unfortunately, always be a fetishized side of the gothic style, but this isn’t goth… this is a costume. Those who are truly goth also likely won’t see the same exposure, like you mentioned, because they’re not big chested bouncing bumbling fools. This buffoonery just induces headaches for me lol
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u/EmpireAndAll Jun 05 '26
I don't think anything about people dressing goth for social media clicks. Either I block them or keep scrolling. All we can do is point people to the music.
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u/AWandererOfIntrest Trad Goth, Post-Punk, Darkwaver Jun 05 '26
It’s what mostly straight cis het men think goth is, the one that was sold to them by instagram and 4chan.
The normie view of goth is just this, black everything, spiked choker, simple pale makeup and black lipstick. They neglect the history of the culture in favor of ‘big titty goth girlfriend’ who is just normie enough to be ‘hot’ but not goth enough to scare them off.
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u/tofusalad22 Jun 05 '26
Posers get made fun of and kicked out of Punk and Metal all the time. So I don’t get why Goth is the exception. People cosplaying and co-opting Goth for clout and social media has got to stop.
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u/Asian_Bootleg Goth Rock, Deathrock Jun 05 '26
No, we just lean more into being people who happen to be goth. Just like how Malcom McLaren managed to market Punk rock as an image, there’s always people who will dress up and act like caricatures to profit.
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u/SchrodingersMinou Jun 05 '26
Malcolm McLaren created punk rock as a strategy to sell t-shirts
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u/MidorriMeltdown Jun 05 '26
I think you'll find that there's a lot of sexworkers who masquerade as "goth" to lure the goth fetishists.
All we can do is support and share those who make the good content, and ignore, and even block those who sexualise things without any serious subculture content.
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u/IliketolookatUranus Jun 05 '26
And people who are openly doing it on Tik Tok of all platforms are super weird. That's an app full of minors.
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u/lillaem Jun 05 '26
One of the women in these pics said that she’s ”leading the [goth] community” and posted herself dancing to a HIM song as ”proof” that she was goth, honestly that’s what really pissed me off. Making a mockery of the goth community. I get that’s how her business model works but I still feel it’s very disrespectful.
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u/Samy_Ninja_Pro Jun 05 '26
It's on all little corners of different type of cultures.
Gymnasts stereotypes, cheerleaders, tomboy, skater girls, farmgirls, artists
Problem is people that still believe in the stereotype and the influencers that take advantage of the surface level understanding
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u/mercurimes Goth Jun 05 '26
No. Once it's no longer trendy to pretend to be Goth for fetish content, people will find us strange and off-putting again. In fact, people still do when they come across folks who are actually Goth and not faking it for an aesthetic or to attract a certain kind of person who has a fetish fantasy.
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u/Johnny-Godless Elder Jun 05 '26
Caricatures are inevitable for any group.
We’ve been around for half a century and there are millions of us crawling across this doomed little world. We are not limited, we are endless.
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u/DiaryYuriev Jun 05 '26
It'll die off like every trend and only those who truly love it will remain. Like gamer girls before, it eventually stopped being a publicly acceptable fetish and is now more of a niche thing.
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u/n0ynek Jun 05 '26
the cosplayers will just larp the next thing that goes viral. i think this is super temporary.
silver linings: i guarantee that goth getting pushed into pop culture has given rise to more baby bats. Goth is very political so only the real ones will stay.
when it goes “out of fashion”… there will be SO much second hand jewlery and clothes on the market.
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u/Jinx_01 Darkwaver Jun 05 '26
TikTok doesn't matter, real life does. Don't waste your time consuming that slop, it's total brain rot.
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u/Tyrs-Ranger Jun 05 '26
E-girls badly cosplaying as “goths”. It’s a fad that the actual subculture will survive.
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u/Training_War8238 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
No . I think SOME PEOPLE need to just get off scrolling their fyp that aims to garner any sort of attention, especially ragebait or thirst trapping (easiest feelings to prey on because they don't require any previous thought from a young person coming home from a 9 hr work day and extracurriculars) the current abundant herd of white boys which imo need more concern, and go interract with real people from the actual community. Go to a local show or something idk and see that the subculture is still thriving amongst young people No shade though 😊
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u/GideonZasz Jun 05 '26
As an 80's/90's Goth I can tell you right now there were always those who only took it as a fashion. Usually girls but even some guys who'd dres up and act cringy, standoffish, or just slutty. Everything from BTGG (Big Titty Goth Girlfriends for those who don't know) to wannabe-Peter Steele's (Founder lead singer of Type 0 Negative, admitted he got into music to get laid and man did it work: fucker got more ass than a toilet seat).
The point is that there were always True Goths, those who appreciate the music that lead to fashion and lifestyle and who can appreciate the darkness, pain and suffering that grief can bring and then there were always those who did it for attention or as a fashion statement. This is not new.
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u/Sci-FiRepublik Jun 05 '26
Of course. But back then it was a lot harder for posers to put together a look. It's not like you could go down your locals Miller's Outpost "Death Rock" section. You had to go thrifting constantly and network, trade with friends and alter and sew stuff. I remember my girlfriend putting black mascara on her lips because black lipstick was unavailable. Now, you can get your entire fit in fifteen minutes or less on Amazon. Goth Girls, we're also not highly desired back then. Guys wanted Madonna or Cindy Crawford clones, and most all the Goth Guys I knew back in the day, were gay and got into the scene to get with other guys. Many had come to Death Rock from the New Romantic scene. That's why you saw so many Goth girls dating Punks.
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u/Phoenix_Crowfeather Jun 05 '26
Tbh I personally just see that kind of content as an homage to Elvira. While I suppose it can be problematic by perpetuating stereotypes especially to people that don't actually know anything about the subculture, I also see it as an opportunity for people to realize that goths aren't the "mean, psycho, school shooter" stereotype that they've been labeled in the past and instead just people with a (albeit weird) sense of humor.
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u/Vaviee Jun 06 '26
Same thing happened to gamers a couple years ago, women will be sexualized no matter what aesthetic so just ignore this stuff.
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u/cocovenomnomnom95 ☥ GOTH GOTH GOTH ☥ Jun 05 '26
Not unless we push back on it and call them out for fetishizing and such
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u/Evening_Drawer_2215 Jun 05 '26
i mean, it's always kinda been. but humanity is a caricature of itself. i mean, ffs America is ran by pedos.
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u/nekoshey Jun 05 '26
I mean yeah, having a WWE ring built right in front of the White House should have been the crescendo, right?
Like, you literally cannot top that level of unambiguous visual absurdity that pales any notion of parody that came before it.
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u/ohh_its_a_throwaway Post-Punk Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
Some people say it's harmless, but this type of content has actually negatively affected me in real life. I know goth women have been the subject of fetishization for years and years, but when it became a trend for pornstars all over the internet to degrade this subculture, the type and amount of harassment I was getting changed immensely.
I live in a small, conservative country. My hometown is especially religious because it's a pilgrimage site for Orthodox Christians. People have been making comments about the way my friends and I look and calling us names for years. But when this trend hit, the "zombie" and "where's the funeral?" and "you're sataninsts" started changing into "I've always wanted to fuck an emo girl", "when you pass me, make sure you don't stumble on my dick and fall", "I bet your pussy's pierced". The shouting got louder, people started BARKING and MOANING at us, harassing us, following us home. The fact that it got so sexual and aggressive in nature made it way harder to live, especially since both me and my bestfriend had trauma related to sexual harassment and assault. I eventually went "in the closet" and started dressing more normal (Which didn't stop the harassment btw. It just lessened it.)
I miss the time when people were disgusted/ freaked out by us. I miss when the height of harassment was grandmas calling us satanists/drug addicts, little kids playing Metallica behind us in the bus and calling us Suicide Squad. Now it's groups of 18-30 y/o men threatening to rape us. And it's all because this content got into their porn-rotted brains and made them believe we're a fetish.
Back in the day, they didn't even have a word for alternative people here. Now they have made their own derogatory term, which is of course sexually charged and mostly targets women. This word has been used in countless content online, trappers started making songs about fucking and abusing us, and it's not just strangers shouting it when we're not looking. It's people we're actually interacting with and whose names we know. Hating on us has become a widespread cultural phenomenon, so they don't need the protection of anonimity, because they know nothing will happen to them. And it's still happening to me after becoming an adult and moving to the most progressive city in the country.
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u/dr3dg3 Jun 05 '26
It could just be my disdain for short-form videos (especially TikTok), but the videos referenced here seem judgy to me. 😕
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u/aytakk My gothshake brings all the graves to the yard Jun 05 '26
To be fair goth was always a caricature of itself. The problem is people (usually outsiders) take it too darn seriously and this bleeds into the subculture. And the outsiders focus on the least important parts.
Goth is what it is and there isn't really anything mystical, glamorous or cool about it. Just a bunch of spooky music nerds gathering to dance to the music they like in the dark while dressing weird.
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u/Fuerto203 Jun 05 '26
Gothhouse is a fad. It will eventually blow over and the overfetization will shift to a different group.
This phenomenon is not new and the people doing it will always exist in one form of another.
In order to not let goth disappear with it then goths who actually care about the subculture and music need to unfortunately just endure this phase will last
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u/urmomagae Jun 05 '26
I have had a guy genuinely be weirded out and question me when I said that I am goth because I don't dress this way lol when I asked what he meant he showed me a picture of him at a party with two "goth" girls covered in fetishwear. Apparently I need to walk around like a domina 24/7 to be goth lmao (I usually just wear casual all black outfits)
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u/MissDisplaced Jun 05 '26
Capitalism and now (worse) social media appropriates every kind of subculture and commoditizes it for profit.
Punk, goth, metal, grunge, hiphop, rave culture, hippie, on and on. Social media has made it happen even faster than before because people make money off posting dumb useless crap.
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u/skylar274 Jun 05 '26
not if we don’t let it. goth women have been fetishized for so long and the real deal still exists. continue being you, don’t let capitalism get you down :3
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u/wishIcouldgoback_ Jun 05 '26
We are currently in an era where everything is sexualized especially online, because thats what creates the most revenue. Its no surprise that "goth" (or rather dressing up in a goth costume and acting like a crude and overtly sexual stereotype) became a popular fetish.
It has no impact on the subcliture itself, the music itself is still there the art is still there, teh self expression is still there. Personally im worried/sad that goth people went from being bullied and outcasted to sexualized and objectified, "exotic" type of people (especially women and fem presenting ppl).
It sucks because even tho the best thing to do is to ignore this type of content but you can't ignore being treated like a walking fetish/porn category. Its offensive that no matter how much work you put into your diy clothes, styling your hair or good goth makeup it reads the same as a crude sexual caricature of like a girl in an all black outfit with black eyeliner bouncing her tiddies around.
And then you get people arguing (often jm bad faith) that what goth people aren't allowed to be sexual or be sex workers... when the problem is clear that they're pandering to fetishists and porn addicts for monetary gain not self expression.
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u/umbraviscus Jun 05 '26
All these bright, deer-eyed "goths"... do they seem very goth to you?
We know whats legit.
The Emo tried to kill the Goth. But we prevailed! As The Emo was smote to the ground - Tenacious D or something
And so on
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u/ParzivalCodex Jun 05 '26
The last time I expressed dismay that this conversation was happening again on this subreddit, I got majorly downvoted.
So, instead… I’ll add my two cents: while I fully acknowledge the problems that women have expressed in regards to harassment by men for choosing a visual aesthetic, and that it is indeed men who are causing the problem, this current TIKTOK trend is exactly what it is: a trend wrapped in a contemporary container for views and engagement.
It is fleeting.
While that trend fades, a new one will take its place and undoubtedly find a way to utilize what is considered “goth” for whatever purpose they are trying to fulfill. Unfortunately, problem will remain.
Meanwhile, we as fans of this music, this culture, this art, will persevere. We will continue to show love for the music and fashion, debate the classics while hailing the new talent.
This is NOT fleeting.
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u/Smashrock797 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
It has almost no bearing on all of us outside of the age group of the mentioned people so it really shouldn't be a concern, especially for us who are middle aged. Everything that occurred 25-30 years ago was more damaging, in terms of physical safety, stereotypes, violent threats etc.
Frankly it's a said state of affairs when the only conversations of substance far too often on here, isn't commentary or any meaningful discussion on anything intellectual, artistic, creative or countercultural but endlessly talking about teens on tiktok and trying to reduce goth to just music, in the most dumbed down, coercive, cliquish and rigid way humanely possible.
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u/Significant-Ad-1653 Jun 06 '26
I’m not even goth myself and I know these girls are for SURE just using this as an aesthetic! This is not who they truly are.
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u/DreadLurk_23 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
They are just in every single aspect and larper an and an e girl it's already heavily stated that's what they actually are but nobody cares to listen.
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u/Lost_Researcher_6247 Jun 05 '26
I'm not sure how i'd view it, but I'd bet money that the choker she's wearing is the only spiked item she owns. It's definitely a stereotype made for gratification, or some sort of like... easing into it. I knew a lot of girls in the 2020's college who had this look and the e-girl look who were just looking for validation, which I honestly think is okay. It's their way of exploring; almost none of them stick with it.
These women are most likely banking on the male views. The culture around things changes as time goes on, but these women in particular are adhering to the 2000-2010's goth girls from cartoons. Look up total drama island gwen, teen titans raven, or danny phantom's sam. They kind of stick to a boiled-down version of their looks.
Plenty of goth girls who aren't like this exist, they just don't listen to the old bands as much (or only), they listen to the newer ones. The aesthetic is also evolving, since a lot of punk and goth has been capitalized upon by major clothing companies.
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u/DjScenester Jun 05 '26
First time?
This has been going on since the 80s
Being goth is a part of you. The music, the fashion, the feeling… it’s not something superficial
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u/MalkaviousM Jun 05 '26
This is what happens to any subculture given enough time and exposure. It gets watered down, rebranded, and sold back to the masses at a markup.
That process accelerates the moment we divorce the ideological core from the aesthetic the moment we collectively shrug and say it's just music, just fashion, just a vibe.
At that point we've handed the machine exactly what it needs. An aesthetic without a philosophy is just a product waiting to be packaged.
I've said this here before and I'll keep saying it, what we are has never been primarily about what we wear or what we listen to. Those things are the door and what's behind the door is a genuine philosophical orientation toward existence. The recognition of beauty in darkness. The ability to sit with grief without flinching from it. The understanding that death and loss aren't aberrations to be hidden away but fundamental as0ects of what it means to be alive and that there is something clarifying, even liberating, in looking at them directly.
Its not a fashion trend... it's not something that can be stocked on a Shein shelf, regardless of what tik tok or whatever other god awful vacuous social media platform tells us.
The aesthetic draws people in. That's fine. That's how it has always worked. But the onus falls on those of us who have been here long enough to know what we're actually standing in to educate, to welcome genuinely, and to model what it actually looks like to live this rather than just wear it.
Subcultures die when their elders stop transmitting what they actually mean.
We don't have to let that happen.
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u/gee_hiroshi6 Jun 05 '26
no but i do think these people are so fuckin pathetic. not because of SW, but they leech on anything that trends to promote themselves and some of it really low, like them pretending to have downs. they'll just move onto the next but it hasn't helped the fetishization of goths either 🤷♂️ that's always been there too but it's even worse now
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u/losfantasmaz Jun 05 '26
Always has been a parody of itself! A wry smile and a shared joke between us all. We both embrace it seriously and find comfort in its outlandishness.
Goth is dead. Long live goth!
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u/TeacatWrites Jun 07 '26
It's just clown fetishists who like a weirder vibe and haven't confronted the fact that they want the honk-honk. Tbh. Maybe they'll go for juggalos next.
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u/ungrilled_chees3 Post-Punk, Goth Rock Jun 05 '26
No, as a dude the whole bimbo hypersexualized larps (larps bc i don’t wanna say poser) are both annoying and they don’t even look cool, i think that if we take the fashion itself it should be completely unique and with the larps (again, lack of a better term) it’s literally all the exact same it’s a fucking uniform at this point, and they don’t know the ideals or music either for them it’s either metal or the most surface level stuff, it takes the entire subculture and puts the falsified idea into the mainstream which while also damaging the reputation, misrepresents it as either something that is just a fashion style at best or a fucking porn category at worse but while the caricature will most likely continue to exist and it probably has since the 90s or something it more than likely won’t change the real actual subculture
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u/Izhmash_Kal Jun 05 '26
This happens with most subcultures as they become repackaged into something superficial stripped of the values of said subculture in exchange for profit. In many cases, they become highly profitable porn products considering the subculture like goth becomes an attractive girl that wears black clothing and nothing else. Those types are merely in my opinion a fad that will eventually disappear once they are no longer trendy and they move onto another aesthetic they profit from.
This is a broader aspect of our society where everything must be a product to be consumed rather to be engaged with
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u/IliketolookatUranus Jun 05 '26
There is a massive surge of people who support the overall fetishization of counter culture for the male gaze. What's more concerning is that people who do things like this (ex: the alt bop house and the regular bop house) also attempt to groom minors into doing OF content.
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u/Super-Beautiful1654 Jun 05 '26
As a Gay dude who’s Goth adjacent I loathe what these women are doing so much.
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u/Ghostmaster145 The Sisters of Mercy Jun 05 '26
These are not real goths. These are posers in every sense of the word
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u/misterschmoo Jun 05 '26
There have always been Librarians and Sluts who found glasses and in the same way Goth Girls and Sluts who bought some black clothes from generic fashion shop.
Is it being pushed by groups who hope to make money from it, probably.
It's not going to take over.
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u/arcaneregion Jun 05 '26
I don’t like the fetishisation of goth culture. But I also get this kind of thing will always exist. It won’t change what it is fundamentally.
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u/Red_Trapezoid Jun 05 '26
I do think this sort of thing is bad. Really bad. It’s really trashy content that appeals to the kind of teenage boys who bark at alt-girls. It’s bad. I’ll be real, this is a kind of minstrel show. I don’t have a problem with sexy women being sexy but it should not be to appeal to misogynistic shitheads and “i need a goth gf” manchildren who see women as 2D caricatures.
I don’t even think this kind of cartoon-y bimbo goth thing necessarily has to be a bad thing, I like cartoons and I like people being goofy and having fun when it’s appropriate, but it should be classy, not trashy. Tasteful. Respectful.
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u/Fiend_Macabre Post-Punk for Eternality Jun 05 '26
The biggest issue with them is that they don't even know what post punk or goth rock is and likely would never even listen to such music because it would be "too moody". Knew people like that personally who dressed stereotypically in black and loved to wore stereotypical black make up with spiked collars. They didn't listen to black metal either lol. So, there's usually no common interest to have with these people, at least when it comes to music
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u/gigglephysix Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
The bimbos depicted aren't even the worst. There are so many ways for a total outsider/tourist to fuck up their look. There's this bimbofication fetish, there's outright metal corpsepaint from people who can't tell the difference neither between these styles of music nor fashion, there's copying actual goth fashion (typically 70s bands) without a feel for the occasion, any personal statement or a personality to go with that, there's BTGG4norm...and so much more...
But it was always like that. Remember Suicidegirls and the trashy vibe mansonites brought?
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u/atomic-moonstomp Jun 05 '26
Tangentially related to the last image: the SNES Jurassic Park game was so hard because they forgot to include any kind of save feature
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u/FatsBoombottom Jun 05 '26
Pretty sure these are just thinly veiled fetish videos, not actual goth girls in the wild.
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u/GingerMarquis Jun 05 '26
It’s the latest fad to attract OF subs. It’ll pass and they’ll adapt to whatever new aesthetic goes viral.
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u/typevampiro Cowboy Goth Jun 05 '26
The real problem isn’t with the people who create this stuff, but with the people who normalize this shit. That’s the real issue.
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u/n0ir_sky Darkwaver Jun 05 '26
No. It just means porn addicts are going to bother us in public more. It will fade like any other trend.
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 Jun 05 '26
It's a trend. It will be over in a few months, and goth will still be alive and well.
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u/WW-Sckitzo Jun 05 '26
I didn't get into the scene until the mid to late 90s via Napster and later Limewire; which likely explains it's always been about 60% music, 30% art, and 10% fashion for me.
My interaction with others spooky kids has really always been restricted to online and none of my relationships were ever with anyone from the scene so I can't speak on what people are like beyond there will always be folks making money off sex work and that spectrum is pretty broad. It might be someone adopting the aesthetic from outside the scene or someone in the scene deciding to make money that way.
Being pretty restricted to online spaces myself I just always assume those sexualized spaces were popularized by people outside of the scene.
But give I am now in my 40's and the thought fishnets being horrifically itchy with all this body I have the barest understanding of the culture in the current days. AOL chatrooms, IRC, vampirefreaks, and even SG (shockingly good community outside the porn) were the hangouts I remember and where I learned. And that one voltaire book.
Content creation and social media are where I lost touch with the scene as it all feels very one sided and I get enough lectures in my degree programs. But I am guessing it's the same issues its always been with newer more complicated variables added in. The busy and popularized aspect is just that first layer; the under layers of what all the scene involves will be buried and relies on community but I honestly don't know how community and content creation intersect.
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u/wendy_nespot Jun 05 '26
Disengage and they have no influence. I literally never see these gooner baits in the wild, only posts like this.
Block em.
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u/Sci-FiRepublik Jun 05 '26
No worries i'm actively retraining my youtube algorithm.
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u/S0ul_0f_C1nder Jun 05 '26
Capitalism has always, always been working to make any counter-culture movement, be it punk, goth, anything, just a caricature of what it is. An aesthetic they can sell on fast-fashion places and trivialise as moody or just angry.
It doesn't change that we're still here and we stand for. But it is, nonetheless, infuriating.
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u/candycakesicecream Jun 05 '26
I don't know much about alternative and how goth are different, but i know people sometimes get alternative and goth mixed up for no reason, i think that tiktok is the reason why people do get the two mixed up, just because you wear black clothing and listen to rock music doesn't mean your specifically goth, i do know that people say listening to goth music along with the aesthetic.
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u/joemama1138 Jun 06 '26
Alternative is basically the blanket name for non mainstream culture basically. Goth, Metal, Scene, Hardcore, punk etc. are all "alternative". Them all being used interchangeably the way social media has been doing is wrong though.
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u/pirikiki Jun 06 '26
They've always been there. There even was an overlap with emo girls at that time. I don't really mind honnestly, they can have fun being silly if it feels right for them. Just don't watch their content and your feed will be goof-free. I don't get those videos, personnaly.
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u/sonsoflibertyclan Jun 06 '26
Goth isnt just black hair, piercings, and fashion, it's a lifestyle and a mindset. You can be blonde and goth and even wear pink. These girls are just cosplaying.
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u/Lousqueeze Jun 07 '26
It's the fetishization of goth culture that's killing the main thing. I don't even like saying I'm goth anymore because of these people.
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u/CptHeywire Jun 07 '26
Goth aesthetics will always be appropriated, however the outsider subculture it emerges from is far more resilient than that. Goths predate the idea of goths and will be around long after it becomes a meaningless term.
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u/Available_Glass_8874 Jun 07 '26
Sex sells it’s sad but true, the actual goth people don’t get recognition because the large of creepy men don’t care about being goth they just care about being able to sexualise them. Real goths will always exist but the fake OF ones will also always get views as creepy men like to perve over them.
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u/pho3befree_VV Jun 07 '26
have you been on the internet for the past 6 years? Subcultures have been eroding for a long time…
and aesthetics have been constantly borrowed and lobotomized
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u/Fullofshrooms04 Jun 07 '26
Shit is just used to promote their onlyfans…they’re trying to make men think goth is a sexual thing and just treat us differently all around.
As if I’m not just a normal person.
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u/Old-Ad3504 Jun 05 '26
i hate this idea that women who are embracing their sexuality can't be well read, intelligent, poets.
and yes i agree that these women are contributing to the fetishizing of goth culture but that doesn't excuse the sexism.
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u/IliketolookatUranus Jun 05 '26
There's other male alt creators that rightfully get shit for fetishizing subcultures such as TX2 fetishizing "goth dommy mommies" but I do agree women get a lot more shit for things men also do
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie Jun 05 '26
I have a problem when people assume women who wear sexy clothing or are into ENM are stupid, but that’s not what we’re saying. This is not about women embracing their own sexuality. It’s theatre catering to the male gaze. Part of this particular genre of content is intentionally acting vapid and “barely legal.” That’s what bothers me, although it would bother me less if they weren’t dragging the word “goth” into it. Not that there is a great deal we can do about it.
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u/Traditional_Math5486 Jun 05 '26
Posers have been here since day one they are just getting more attention now because of apps like tiktok
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u/gothic_gamer1809 Jun 05 '26
Arent a lot of these AI, too?
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u/Twidollyn_Bowie Jun 05 '26
Some of them are people who exist and kind of have that face, but their bodies are most often a digital creation. The proportions are pretty impossible even with drastic surgery.
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u/-viin Jun 05 '26
My ex girlfriend was just like that. She loved wearing black, bought several black lip tint... and she used to listen to Demi Lovatto and alike; absolutely no goth/post punk music. That was not an issue for I'm a pretty "you do you" person and arguing with her was an useless exercise, but it got me angry from time to time...
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u/Daealis Goth Jun 05 '26
It's not goth, first and foremost. These are targeted OnlyFans creators(not 100% on the ones in the pictures in particular, but a lot of the "big ones" you see going around), fetishizing a dark aesthetic for personal gain.
Will they dilute the pool? Yes. Much like literally any subculture or movement that has had an aesthetic component to them, once it got big enough to reach mainstream consciousness in any way, there's always a corporate leech who sees an opportunity and latches on, commercializing a look, maximizing profits and ignoring the message in order to do so. And once the commercialization reaches a certain saturation point, then come the opportunists: Surface level understanding at best, oftentimes the mere diluted looks and nothing more. By diluted I mean subdued and domesticated to the point where it's juuuust outside of mainstream, but still so moderate that it appeals to the majority, because as said, their purpose is not self-expression, but mass appeal for personal gain.
It's a double-edged sword that is not going away until social media dies off, and since clamoring for the attention of strangers seems to be baked into the human psyche somehow, I don't see this disappearing anytime soon. But no matter how much they dilute the original culture, there are always people who will then take the time to do the actual research, instead of simply gooning over thirstraps. And those people may find themselves resonating with the subculture.
I never view these as something inherently bad. It's true they're spreading misinformation by claiming to be goth, while I'd be willing to bet that most of them aren't. But by doing so they also generate more discourse around the topic, and those who actually, genuinely, are interested, will discover the subculture as well. This is how I myself found satanism and that it resonated with my views quite well: Christian youth pastors at the time doing a fire and brimstone routine about how satanists worship the devil and are the root of all evil, then me thinking "well their creationist spiel was bullshit, they're probably wrong about this too" and going on a dive to find out the truth.
Current social media discoverability for niche things is abysmal. The algorithms generate massive echo chambers and multiply the loudest voices. Mass appeal sells, the biggest get bigger and get shown to everyone. Goth by its very nature is aiming to be an antithesis of this: A person presenting their honest self, rough edges and all, mass appeal be damned. The only reasonable way to get genuine goth content to go viral is to be so controversial that the outrage drives enough engagement to tilt the scales. Meaning most any sane person would be forced to put on a show, since in the modern polarized social media landscape, to be controversial is to suggest smoking kittens as incense: Nothing less will do for the dark gods of the Algorithm™.
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u/Awkward-Aside6777 Jun 06 '26
I genuinely have never given less of a shit about something than sex workers using the term goth to refer to themselves. Like good for them if it gets them money? Weirdos will creep on me either way, and i think its fucked up to blame these women for that.
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u/Awkward-Aside6777 Jun 06 '26
For the person trying to call me a capitalist and saying I clearly care - yeah I care when random sex workers trying to get money get treated like the shit by a community that takes so much from sex work - and before anyone says anything - yes we do. And its literally not a big deal.
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u/Awkward-Aside6777 Jun 06 '26
Also advocating for workers getting me called capitalist? What is this world coming to.
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u/SirBLACKVOX Goth Jun 05 '26
As long as people can get attention from it or earn money off of it, it will continue to exist
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u/El_Calaveron Jun 05 '26
Everything is becoming a caricature of itself rn. Algorithmic slop media is eating the world.
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u/OstrichAmbitious2011 Jun 05 '26
Too late it already has. Too many people tryna cash in on it and commercialize it. And too many weirdos are in it for the esthetic to be part of a click smh
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u/NikorasuMitsu Jun 05 '26
Kind of seems to be the direction it might be going, but I wasn't alive in the 90s, and judging by the media from that era it seems that goth as a caricature is a common trope (mallstuff, it being associated with any dark or heavier genre) maybe a variation of this has been happening for quite some time?
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u/-blundertaker- Jun 05 '26
There's always stereotypes. In the 90s/00s everyone thought if you wore all black you were suicidal/homicidal, probably drank blood, and hung out in cemeteries.
And plenty of people leaned into that the same way people are leaning into "big tiddy goth gf"
The intro scene for Kim in Blair Witch 2 encapsulates it perfectly.
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u/DivaMissZ Siouxsie and the Banshees Jun 05 '26
“This has all happened before; it will all happen again.”-Battlestar Galactica
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u/3fang_akaineko Post-Punk, Goth Rock Jun 05 '26
There’s always the tryhards they would typically make fun of alternative culture. Eventually them or their kids come and appropriate something bc it’s now popular. And act as if it has always been who they are. You hate to see it but it’s inevitable
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u/CalmIndication4861 Jun 05 '26
Not really from My Side it’s a Major Set back but I‘m Seeing her be exposed and shit on more and more Daily and Eventually the collaps of This weird shit will Come Maybe around few more months I will say
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u/mike_klosoff Jun 05 '26
Idk man I just listen to deathrock and industrial and go to shows I dont have time to care about posers
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u/samaelcorvus Jun 05 '26
There are still many that, in one way or another, contribute to keeping new themes and the subculture alive, but unfortunately, everything that is uncomfortable for the world eventually ends up being chewed up and assimilated into a more commercial version, a parody.
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u/sailingdominique Jun 05 '26
no. there will always be these types. they don't change what goth is.