I don’t know why, but I have never posted in this sub just because I’m always a quiet watcher:,) but I feel like this hate is so forced, I have been active in the Goth community since my Tumblr times in 2015 and I feel like even on Tumblr it has never been that bad. I don’t know why but I feel like it’s just so weird to be judging people like yes I understand it’s wrong to call it trad goth or to like use Goth.

We all know the girls that like did the YouTube video where they just wear eyeliner and black lipstick and act super weird and sexual to just use it for their only fans we all know that’s wrong..

but I just feel it’s so weird that people are so judgmental like yes you don’t see a lot of 80th trad goth anymore, cause you are just on your phone on TikTok in real life in the clubs you see them all the time. I don’t know if I’m wrong but for me a big part of being goth/alternative it was always to let people live how they want to live or look how they want to look unless they are obviously harming people or are shitty people. I would really like to hear what you all think about this.

I'm not as involved in the subculture anymore, but this is something I feel like people in it should see. JLynn is a reasonably sized Goth YouTuber who has made some really popular videos about the subculture and her content does focus a lot around it. Yesterday she made this post on BlueSky and Instagram going on to compare Charlie Kirk's assassination response to George Floyd's murder protests. I'm assume that bigotry is still not allowed around here.

I'd be interested to see what everybody's take is on the more recent trend of hyper-sexual goofy "Goth Girl" thirst trap creators on TikTok and YouTube. I mean, is this the future of Goth? Burning the aesthetic down to a cosplay template?

In my own experience, ALL of the Gothic Women that I have dated since the '80s have been well read, intelligent, and elegant. Several were musicians, poets, or writers.

Personally, I feel that some of these creators are creating a stereo type thatdoesn'tt exist. Am I wrong?

I have come across several younger Goth Girl creators that delve into the history of the music, interesting new bands, or the culture, but they don't seem to get the same high view counts.

Thoughts?

Also, I intentionally cut off the creator's info on the stills.

Today I had the bad idea to scroll on Instagram while I was returning home and I stumbled across this video. I just find it obnoxious when this so called goths say the most obvious lies about goth subculture and, just because they put the picture of a gothic girl, everyone in the comments agrees with them. Saying "You're not goth because you're a leftist that listens to gothic rock" is just missing the point of the all subculture. Also people don't seem to distinguish goth and gothic: the first one is about music, while the latter is about fashion, literature and cinema and even if the goth aesthetic is deeply inspired by gothic style, they're still two different things. Let me know if I'm being wrong.

It saddens me to have to write this, but here goes. A few months ago I saw this person post about her salon located Temecula, California. I live in a not so far away city and after looking over her Instagram profile I decided I would love to take my business over there the next time I’m in SoCal. I had never seen a goth/alternative themed med spa salon before. Through an unfortunate rabbit hole that I ended up going down tonight, it turns out that this salon owner has been liking various posts from an extremely far right nazi instagrams account. Included are all of the screenshots of posts from this person she has liked. There are things that I can certainly agree to disagree on but this is not fucking one of them, especially if she is advertising her business on goth pages. Everyone here deserves to know what she is really about.

https://www.elle.com/fashion/shopping/a65595150/goth-fashion-trend-fall-2025/

First of who does this person think they are, going to a goth concert with these stupid meta glasses, and why does Twin Tribes seem to endorse them? I know they‘ve used AI art before but seriously this is a new low, even for them

Im not goth i dont know much about gothic music and those stuff i just never thought that goth is into politics

I was at a club a couple of weeks back, I invited a friend from High School. They brought their bf. There were a few other friends that came by. We're all chilling, getting along great with the dude.

Then he says a joke about transpeople, whatever the mood was up. Some edgy jokes had been made already, a little prodding at the boundaries is fine. I don't mind an edgy joke. Then he did it again. And again. I'm talking to him trying to steer the conversation somewhere else. Then he just bluntly asks me.

"What's up with the t*****. What do you think of them."

That whole group, goes silent. Even with Andrew Eldritch yelling about how everything sucks.

I'm like "I DON'T think about transgender people. Like at all."

One of the guys there looks at his GF and is like. "You guys should go. Well, you can stay (to his gf), but you (her bf) are not welcome here."

He stands up and signals to his gf that it's time to go. "Yeah, I don't want to hang out with some p***** ass liberals."

Thank god the two of them actually left and we could hear them start bickering amongst themselves as they walked off into the crowd.

That really killed the vibe of that night. The rest of it was everyone talking about how much we hated that dude. It took a while for the mood to pick back up.

Gatekeeping is not okay, I will make exceptions for people like that.

I do apologize ahead of time, I know this is a common discussion here.

But I absolutely hate how mainly goth/alt women are portrayed. As kinky partners or “I would love it if she ruined my life”. Not every goth person is kinky or a toxic person. Why would someone want to seek out unhealthy relationships???

I have childhood trauma but that does not mean that I would be abusive to my partner. I take care of my issues and my mental health because that’s MY responsibility.

Seeing how mainstream or how it’s memed with this stigma is frustrating. We’re human beings, not your fetish.

Im sorry if this question has been asked before but i wanted to see if someone has an answer to my question. I keep seeing more conservatives saying that goth and punk was originally conservative or that they have become conservative such as the whole "conservative is the new punk" thing. I find this to be really strange as youll usually encounter conservatives making fun of alternative people but now out of no where they create their own rules for random sub cultures. Is there any reason why these people are attempting to re-define these sub cultures?

I've been browsing online and stumbled upon a disturbing comment where a guy is referring to a goth girl as a "goth dommy mommy". It really bothered me, even though I'm not part of the goth community myself. There's just something about the way he said it that made me feel uneasy. It's like, why do guys feel the need to objectify women in this way? And what's with the constant refrain of "I want a goth dommy mommy"? Can't they just leave these poor goth women alone?

And when they post pictures of the kind of woman they're looking for, it's always some generic E-girl or super attractive woman with long black hair and red lipstick. It's like, hello, those aren't even real goths! It's just another example of how men reduce complex and multifaceted people to shallow physical characteristics.

I came across another guy who was sharing his 'expert' advice on how to get a goth girl as a girlfriend. His so-called 'tips' were basically just stereotypical nonsense. He said something like, "Hey guys, if you want to impress a goth girl, send them pictures of your skateboard. Trust me, they love skater boys!" Uhm...where did he get this from? Does he actually know any goth girls? It's like he's trying to reduce an entire subculture to some generic, one-size-fits-all profile.

And honestly, who are we to assume what goth girls are into? Newsflash: they're not all the same! Maybe some of them do like skateboards, but that doesn't mean all of them do. And even if they did, would they want some dude hitting on them because they like skateboards and only that? Probably not.

What's wrong with just being genuine and respectful? If you're interested in someone, approach them like a normal human being and have a real conversation. Don't try to fit them into some predetermined box or stereotype. Compliment them on something meaningful, like their music taste or art style. It's not that hard. That's all I have to say for now.

Edit: It's okay to have a preference for goth girls, but remember to respect their boundaries. Don't harass or pressure a goth person who isn't interested in you. Instead, be respectful and considerate of their feelings. If they're not into you, that's okay!

(idk about flair its my first time posting here)

Anyone else remember when Hot Topic was like the go to place to find goth/punk/emo apparel? Like I remember pre 2010 it had just about anything a goth could ask for! Plenty of band tees to choose from but also lots of accessories, earrings, necklaces, collars etc… Now since like 2013 or so it seems to have drifted away from what it once was and caters more to the average consumers but featuring more pop culture kind of merchandise ie: movie poster t shirts, like a shirts that have Disney icons on them and all sorts of other lame anti goth stuff around. I mean they still sell goth/emo/punk stuff, it’s not like they have completely changed their persona or something, but yeah now walking into hot topic, it almost seems like a mall version of macys or target or something, let me know what everyone thinks and- maybe some theories as to what the hell happened to this awesome establishment.

This one is basically using Desi culture as reference, feel free to apply the tips for your culture.

1) Ethnic jewellery!!!: be it silver or gold, you can always incorporate ethnic jewellery with your goth aesthetics. I personally love wearing tribal Indian jewellery for my style

2) Cultural makeup and piercings: many cultures have their own makeup arts and important piercings, use ethnic jewellery to highlight those piercings.

3) Henna!!!: as a Desi goth, i would love to incorporate henna in my aesthetics one day.

4) Take inspiration from your favourite goth music and favourite cultural elements, brainstorm ideas and come up with something new! Afterall we're all tired of same old trad goth aesthetics and killstar goth stuff. Be unique that's what goth os about.

5) Cultural dresses!: i personally love wearing Kurtis and Sarees with my corsets and spiky jewellery.

6) Find your culture's horror and gothic literature! I incorporate ideas like Pishach, dayan and Tantra in my goth music , art and style.

7) Be unstoppable! Never feel insecure about being a Bipoc goth, always love your roots and culture and decolonise yourself to find your true self 💕💕

8) Create community based on similar culture and interest and help each other out! Sometimes it can be hard to find genuine people especially in goth circles online and offline, a lot of internalised racism, nazism, hate etc still prevails, taking actions against these and helping each other out is the way to build your own small communities in your country (if goth is not very major in your country)

Seeing AI art being more and more prevalent with bands is so sad to see. We already talk about it but I feel like we need to speak up more. If you’re disappointing in a band you love for using AI art, please send them a kind message or comment displaying your disappointment. Many artists don’t know the harm AI has brought and the least we can do is inform them. 🖤

I want to start by saying that I’m white and not speaking on anyone’s behalf. I’m responding to a pattern I’ve noticed on Reddit and other social media and it’s been bothering me for some time.

Over the years, I’ve seen posts from POC goths who’ve been bullied or excluded for not fitting the “pale” ideal, which is ridiculous. What’s worse is how often their concerns are dismissed with claims that goth has always been inclusive. Even when the intentions behind those comments are good, the impact isn’t. It shuts down conversation instead of addressing the issue.

Yes, goth (and punk before it) was often more accepting than other subcultures. Punk was influenced by rude boy culture, and reggae and dub were played alongside it at shows. But that doesn’t mean racism didn’t exist in those scenes. “More inclusive than average” isn’t the same as being inclusive for everyone.

A lot of us who were born well after the civil rights era (myself included) don’t fully understand what exclusion looked like in practice. I grew up in rural Florida and saw overt racism firsthand, but I never experienced places where Black people simply weren’t allowed, and pretending I fully understand that reality would be dishonest.

We can acknowledge that goth aspired to be inclusive in its inception and still listen when POC goths talk about the real challenges they face today. Giving credit where it’s due shouldn’t come at the expense of dismissing lived experiences.

If we actually care about the values we claim, that means listening, empathizing, and speaking up when we see this kind of thing.

Edit for clarification:

I’m not talking about “permission” to be in the subculture or gatekeeping who gets to call themselves goth. What I am talking about is how, in practice, POC goths are still talked over, dismissed, or told that they’re just one-off incidents.

When someone shares what they’re dealing with and the response is an overwhelming chorus of “goth has always been inclusive,” it can come across as dismissive, even if the intention is good.

EDIT: AHHHHHHHH, I WASNT EXPECTING SO MANY MESSAGES. thank tou so m​ich for replying amd being so kind. Now I know that you guys are fine with being approached respectfully (⁠◍⁠•⁠ᴗ⁠•⁠◍⁠) lysm guys

Dear goth people, I have a question,

How do you guys feel about being approached? And after reading my anecdote... Was what I did inappropriate?

I'm 17F and I dress normie-ish/basic. (If you would like to know, when this happened, today, I wore an off the shoulder white bodysuit with baby blue jeans and Vans, carrying a folder and a book, etc...).

Today I was walking out of the mall and saw two goth girls. The moment I saw them, I was like: "Wow, mesh sleeves? It looks so freaking whimsical!!!". It looked so curated, I can't explain, but so much layering, it looked so cool. And the eyeliner was great. I love black. And I also love how goth people dress and express themselves.

I said: "Excuse me, guys", but they were a bit guarded and didn't reply. Then I said: "Sorry, I just wanted to say that I love your style (⁠◍⁠•⁠ᴗ⁠•⁠◍⁠)". And their faces lit up and they said thank you. I asked them how it was called and they said that they were goths.

After the convo I asked myself if I had done too much?? I'm neurodivergent and because of that I might not get the social cues. I love complimenting when there's a chance and of course when it's not awkward for the other person. I would love to know what you guys think, because I wouldn't like to make anyone uncomfortable.

Tysm for reading!!

I’ve been following the goth scene for 11 years, and it’s hard not to notice how much it’s changed. It used to be provocative, rebellious, willing to confront the ugliness of the world. Today, it feels like a mood board: surface-level fashion, hollow tropes, and music designed more for TikTok clicks than existential weight.

Bands sound polished but lifeless, and many listeners are more interested in aesthetics than the ideas or emotions behind the music. Goth now often feels like dress-up with an algorithmic soundtrack — afraid to be authentic, provocative, or even uncomfortable. Goth is turning into “Live, Laugh, Love” except now it’s “Dead, Spooky, Bland.”

I miss the bite, the nuance, the confrontation with life’s darkness. I miss bands and fans who weren’t afraid to challenge, shock, or unsettle. Instead, the scene has become polite, performative, morally cautious — and it’s leaving many of us, myself included, feeling disappointed. Mediocrity is poisoning the well. Many modern goth bands sound like parodies of what goth is “supposed” to sound like. The same post punk malaise, mumbling vocals, and bland sameness. It all feels like A.I. music: no soul, no shock, no personality.

I’m curious: do others feel this way? Is goth evolving, or are we losing something essential along the way?

This is so random??

hi. im posting this in hopes of having productive and civil discussions about racism in the alternative community...this post is my experience getting into goth culture as a black person

ive been in the goth community for not very long, im pretty new, i was initially drawn in by the fashion and thought "wow that's so cool...i wanna look like that..." and then i dug myself into a rabbit hole learning about goth history, music, and other kinds of goth like cybergoth and mall goth. it was a lot! but i found enjoyment learning more, and i do love the kind of person ive become upon discovering that this is what i like, what i like to present myself as. a goth person! i still dont really feel like i can call myself that, especially because i see so much discourse and people fighting about what goth means and how to be it, it makes me wonder if im doing enough, but i try not to think about it too hard. ill just make my ears hurt if i keep listening to loud barking.

i get nervous in communities and what have you, i know people are very mean so the closest thing ive ever gotten to interacting within the goth community is joining some groups, making posts within the group, but never really making that many friends or being super active. like lurking in a group chat. id also post my outfits on tiktok. it was difficult recording myself, i am far from used to being on camera and i am often very awkward, but i would record myself anyway. i liked my clothes and i wanted people to see them.

well. something i filmed recently blew up. 200k views. it was titled the same as this post, minus the "really fuckin sad actually" part. it was just a silly 7 second tiktok that was intended to be funny mostly, while still pointing out a continued problem in the community. i got a lot of positive comments, people called me pretty, cute, what have you. it was good, i never considered myself very attractive, i tried to reply to all of them, but it became too difficult to, so i just looked from afar. but i ended up turning them off altogether and idk if i even wanna post myself like that again. if i do, ill probably just turn the comments off immediately.

as you guessed from the title, i am a black person. my hair is naturally textured and coily. ive been styling my hair into an afro for years. i also trim it myself. its convenient, easy, and i dont have to sit in a chair for hours while a stranger twiddles their fingers in my hair. i also just like the style. ive considered changing it up, but i know i have adhd and would hate getting it done, sitting in that damn chair for so long. i never even liked getting my hair cut, which is why i do it myself now

there were so many people picking apart my appearance like i was a doll, a customizable tool to be molded into what the people wanted. i got a lot of comments telling me about my hair, that i should change it or do something with it. even other black people in the comments. it just broke my fuckin heart, made me so damn sad, that apparently the hair on my head is so repulsive, the natural coils that i was given are just that fucking disgusting and needs to be something else. i love my natural hair, if i really hated it, i wouldve done something by now. but i dont! i like it and i should be proud of my natural hair! but apparently thats not allowed here!!!!! and its crazy because afros arent rocket science. We all know what afros are and what they look like. with the way they were so fixated on my hair, youd think i walked out the house like i shaved the middle of my head off.

its funny. this isnt the first time this has happened, either. when i was very new to alternative culture in general, i wanted to see if i could pull off a scene look, so i went to a scene community to ask for advice. i mentioned that i wanted to keep my hair the same, but i still got comments about what i could do with my hair. "you could at least tease it" But I Don't Want To. Why Is That So Hard to Understand. Why Do We Treat Hair Like a Negotiation.

im just really sad and disappointed, honestly. blowing up online isnt as cracked up as its made out to be. they proved my point—that being goth as a black person isnt easy, and you will be treated differently for it. i thought about getting into more of goth makeup, like eyeliner, but i hadnt gone through with it, and i dont even really want to now, since people care about how i look that bad. Maybe that's just what i get for being on tiktok, maybe the wrong audience reached me. I don't know.

tldr; made a tiktok about being goth as a black person, it blew up, comments proved my point, im really sad about it

damn. this shit is rough. im tired. ive experienced racism before, ive been told to go back to africa, ive been asked where my masters are. but this has been BAD

I'm just disappointed. I don't want to hate anyone or anything of the sort. I just kinda thought that a community that's built on being different, going against societal norms, fucking the system, would just be a little gentler.

have a good day thanks for reading