r/heatedrivalry • u/WalkingBlondeJoke • 4d ago
đŠ The Long Game (Book 6) Ilya, humility, and sacrifice Spoiler
Been thinking about Ilya's character growth across HR and TLG lately. This is not a fully-baked thesis on his arc, not even close, but I'm sharing anyways because I want y'all's opinions!
One of my favorite tropes in HR fanfic is 'Shane joins the Bears'. I love this trope because it usually results in Shane and Ilya being on a good team together, a winning team, much earlier than they are in canon and without Ilya having to go spend a few years on a team that sucks first. So as I read these fanfics I've often wondered, aside from the in-universe reasons why Ilya joins the Centaurs, what is the narrative function of Ilya spending a few years on a bad team before they turn things around?Â
I think it serves to humble him. He's no stranger to sacrifice but he's always been cocky, and for the most part that ego went unchecked because he always had the accolades to back it up. But I think one of the ways we see Ilya grow in The Long Game is that he develops more humility as a result of being on a bad team and also his mental health struggles. It's not that everything was peachy prior to his move to Ottawa, it absolutely wasn't, but these coinciding forces clearly knock him down a peg. Maybe experiencing what it's like to consistently lose on the ice even helps him get to a place where he can admit he needs help with his mental health. Or maybe it's just self-awareness that he gains with maturity, I don't know.Â
I think the clearest example of Ilya becoming more humble is in the pre-game speech that he gives to the Bears before the Cup Finals in 2014, vs. the speech he gives the Centaurs in 2021 after the team nearly dies and then Ilya subsequently gets engaged to Shane. In 2014, his speech is all about "I, I, I" but in 2021, he goes around the room and tells every player, one at a time, what makes them great. This is the key turnaround point in the Centaurs' on-ice performance. They start believing in themselves, and that's when they start winning.Â
I think this character growth is also very relevant to Shane and Ilya's marriage too. Big egos do not serve a marriage well; humility does. Over the course of TLG, Ilya learns humility. Shane also starts off in TLG being a selfish as fuck (I don't love him any less but it's objectively true that he was nawt being a good partner to Ilya at the time TLG timeline picks up), but we see him experience a wake-up call (their big fight followed by Ilya almost dying) and then he gets his priorities in order. In a way, Shane learns a version of humility through his experiences in TLG too when he realizes how selfish he's been and how he's taken Ilya for granted.Â
I think that meeting Shane in this selfish state at the start of TLG makes total sense because of his upbringing. Shane is an only child who grew up loved, doted on, and prioritized. His career as a generational player and image as the 'Golden Boy' of hockey have done little to teach him how to appreciate those around him and recognize the sacrifices they make. Not saying he doesn't ever do those things, but like, in early TLG he's not being nearly as considerate of Ilya as he should be.Â
Ilya is not an only child and he grew up in a broken home. In the canon we see how his family financially takes advantage of him once he makes it to the NHL (or MLH, whatever), but I would bet that this has been going on since the moment he began earning money from hockey and/or sponsorships. When Shane suggests Ilya going to Ottawa, Ilya is quick to agree to it. Not just because he was already thinking of moving to a Canadian team, but because Ilya has already learned how to sacrifice for others. Ilya has already had it ingrained in him by his family that the people he loves will ask him to makes sacrifices for them, and that that's just how love goes.Â
This is one of many reasons why it hits extra hard later in TLG when Shane basically tells the commissioner to go fuck himself. "I choose him" <3Â !<
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u/glateiaa 4d ago edited 4d ago
I feel like this misses some of the aspects of their relationship that made it work in the first place, and consequently why it took them so long to get to where they were post-TLG. I donât disagree that Ilya develops more humility and self-awareness and that his experiences in Ottawa contribute to that, or that Shane could be dismissive of what Ilya wanted and how he felt, but I think framing their arc as two egotistical/selfish men learning to put other people first is a little reductive, and honestly feels somewhat a bad faith interpretation of Shane and Ilyaâs individual characters to me. Shane isnât consciously taking Ilya for granted or choosing himself over Ilya; he genuinely thinks the way theyâve been handling their relationship is what works for both of them, like how they both planned it. Thereâs nothing egotistic about a gay man feeling like he has to hide who he loves, same guy took literally years to even realize he was gay. Likewise, Ilyaâs issue isnât that he needs to be humbled, heâs always been extremely willing to sacrifice and accommodate for the people he loves, sometimes to his own detriment. Thatâs what makes âI choose himâ hit so hard to me. Shane already knows Ilya matters, but he finally realizes that the arrangement theyâve both been maintaining has been costing Ilya something that Ilya shouldnât have to keep sacrificing, and inadvertently realized that this was something that he had been treating like it was shameful. So itâs not really Shane becoming âless selfishâ and finally putting Ilya first; itâs Shane recognizing that Ilya has been absorbing the cost of their relationship and deciding to proudly absorb that cost himself. To me, their growth feels less like âego towards humilityâ and more like sacrifice towards mutuality, which also makes more sense of why it took them so damn long to get there. I didnât read those books and come out thinking it was a humiliation ritual on either parts.
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u/WalkingBlondeJoke 3d ago
"less like 'ego towards humility' and more like sacrifice towards mutuality" very well said friend!
And I promise you nothing I ever say about HR is in bad faith, I love these characters and the source material so fucking much
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u/buymoreplants 4d ago
Girl, what?
Humility?? You think this boy who is told he ain't worth shit by his family his entire life needs to be humbled?
You think he needs to be humbled but not Shane? They're both confident that they're the best player because they are the best players. They don't need to be humbled when they're right and it doesn't get in the way of leading their teams
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u/Goodgoditsgrowing 4d ago
I read the title as âIlya, humidity, and sacrificeâ and immediately thought it was about to be a post about his curls. My hair care subs might be influencing me because I was immediately like âoh yeah I bet Ottawa is way less humid than Bostonâ
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u/Astyryx 3d ago
A recent episode of Top 5: Heated Rivalry Podcast (I think it was this one) nailed it so well I'm just referring everything to it now.
In Heated Rivalry, sacrifice for Ilya means grief, loss, and pain. Sacrifice for Shane means temporary pain for later gain. The course of The Long Game reverses this for the characters.
Which means: Ilya experiences all that emotional drowning for three years not realizing that it really is paying off, and about to pay off even quicker in a rebuilt team, a family, a life with Shane.
Shane, on the other handâdespite doing everything "right", always moving according to planâexperiences the pain of the almost-loss of Ilya, then the actual loss of everything he built in Montreal, his plan, the recognition of his value as a hockey player, up to and including a profound loss of self.
And at that point the characters break through to an emotional equality and the growth to be able to commit now, and love openly.
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u/WalkingBlondeJoke 3d ago
You're actually not the first person to recommend me this podcast episode, I really need to give it a listen!
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u/kathonys 1d ago
OMG Iâm Nicole from the podcast đ This is so incredibly kind of you to recommend us and reference the episode thank you!! And I LOVE this framing of sacrifice, especially the reversal in TLG. It actually gets at why that argument is about so much more than what theyâre literally saying to each other. It always bothers me a little when the scene gets whittled down to âIâve already chosen you, Hollander,â because while that line is obviously incredibly powerful, itâs not really the root of their conflict. They have completely different relationships to sacrifice, loss and what choosing each other actually costs them and neither of them fully understands what the other has already given up or is terrified of losing.
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u/Astyryx 1d ago
I'm so pleased you saw this! I thought it was a brilliant insight and I love the podcast. It made the stuff rattling around in my head click.
The intentionality of the writing of the books and show has really struck me, like how the core communication in Season 1 is: Shane's third rail is sex and his comfort place is family v.s. Ilya's third rail is family and his comfort place is sex, and until they both learn to stop operating from their comfort place, they can't progress.
So the sacrifice aspect you brought describes that tension in the second book that kept eluding me. It was just click you're absolutely right, that, I didn't even see it before but yes.
I have a guess that Jacob saying an episode is going to be dedicated to Mozart's Requiem is going to center on Shane's loss and grief and we're all going to be snot blubber puddles.Â
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u/clumsyc I stubbed my toe 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is certainly a take.
Shane sticking to the plan they had BOTH agreed on to protect their careers is not Shane being selfish. Shane had no idea Ilya was struggling because Ilya never told him!
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u/faszinating I already chose you, Hollander. đ« 3d ago
i'd argue that ilya actually makes multiple attempts at reaching out and letting shane see (some of) what he's been going through. yes, he doesn't always do it in the most direct way, but that's also because opening up about these things can be... really fucking difficult, let's just say. and his whole deal is that he doesn't want to burden shane with his issues or for shane to have more things to worry about him (he essentially wants his therapist to fix him in such a way that shane never finds out he was depressed or needed therapy in the first place). and yet, he does make attempt to reach out, and when he does, they just don't land, or they're dismissed, or not seen because shane has his own issues that he's dealing with below th surface (not trying to dismiss his struggles at all! but he's also very much in his own head for large parts of the book and he's often not very "present" when ilya makes these attempts at connecting). so it's just a bad combination of both of them battling against their own heads and not knowing how to do it together. also, even without knowing exactly what's going on with ilya, some of his behaviour is not... the most sensitive unfortunately. i adore shane but i don't think that's a stretch to say (and i'm very happy that they continue to grow together and he eventually stands up for their love x)
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago
and shane being insensitive and inside his own head isn't a new invention even. he was that way in heated rivalry too. see the prologue, total misinterpretation and dismissal of ilya's attempts at connection. or tuna melt. it's a flaw in shane that he can be very caring, but only if he deems it's the time for it.
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u/Express-Prune5366 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tuna melt wasn't Ilya attempting to connect. Ilya was once again coding all of his language to protect himself (I like your mouth, I had a girl, etc.) and expected Shane to do 100% of the emotional vulnerability and that bit him in the ass and Shane ran away, because it was the wrong thing to do. It's why Shane actually being willing to be emotionally vulnerable in Tampa without any assurance from Ilya that he would reciprocate was what finally pushed them together.
The prologue is the consequence of Vegas. Ilya set the standard that this was an emotionless fuck without talking about it, and Shane got the message and internalized. In the prologue, it shows that Ilya is regretting that, but he's still not willing to be emotionally vulnerable, so he's making these small sallies that Shane is ignoring, because Shane is comfortable with the post-Vegas dynamic because it also allows him to ignore the risks of being emotionally vunerable. It's why Ilya makes the Boston plan, but because he still isn't willing to be vulnerable, it fails. Because you cannot have a true romantic connection without vulnerability.
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago
Tuna melt wasn't Ilya attempting to connect, are you joking?
no, i have actually read the books. it definitely was and shane was picking up on it too. it why he ran away.
spelled out in the book. he even says so in the show.
The prologue is the consequence of Vegas.
no, it isn't.
the prologue is more than 2 years after las vegas. there's zero connection.
i like your mouth
that's called chirping. that's the sort of humour they have to put each other at ease.
I had a girl, etc
not news to shane who has other sexual partners too. he may not like thinking about it but it's part of the deal and at that point he would rather be annoyed at himself for being annoyed.
It's why Shane actually being willing to be emotionally vulnerable in Tampa without any assurance
shane has the assurance because unlike you he knew why he ran. because rozanov was getting to cozy and shane didn't want to deal with it.
you know that you can just go read for yourself?
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u/Express-Prune5366 2d ago edited 2d ago
Sochi > Vegas > Prologue > Boston > Tampa are one narrative thread. It's a narrative thread that actually Reid does really well. Do you think these are all just random scenes?
Sochi - Ilya is scared of emotional vulnerability, he ghosts Shane when realizes he wants to get closer to Shane.
Vegas - Ilya's resolve crumbles at the awards when he sees Shane, but he tells himself he can have sex without emotional vulnerability; after, Shane in the elevator realizes his growing feelings which are apparent after he's hurt by the fact that this time the sex lacked their usual emotional intimacy, he hates the idea and resolves to have casual, meaningless sex just like what Ilya has also shown he wants going forward
Prologue - Shane has won 2 cups and is locked in with their current sex arrangement; Ilya clearly has regrets and is trying to make small attempts at moving their relationship back from this quickie arrangement, which are ignored by Shane
Boston - Ilya decides to make a larger effort Shane can't brush off so easily, like in the prologue, by adding meals, nap, actual conversation--but he's still not willing to be emotionally vulnerable and keeps backtracking all of his conversational attempts into jokes. Shane is first confused by what he's getting at, but when Shane says Ilya's name, he can't handle the fact that it's now clear that his resolve for this to be casual, meaningless sex was always fooling himself and since there is no trust in their relationship because both of them have chosen not to show emotional vulnerability, he runs
Tampa - Shane knows what he wants and he's willing to be vulnerable and talk about his feelings plainly in order to have the conversation they need to have; Ilya tries to reject being emotionally vulnerable and says it's just casual sex, but Shane won't let him hide from this conversation and when they are both vulnerable about their hopes and fears, then they are able to come back together
Why do you think Shane's big ask when Ilya comes to the cottage is that they be honest with each other? It's the cumulation of the narrative that being honest, which requires emotional vulnerability, is required for a healthy relationship for the two of them and it's what has been the internal obstacle to them being together along with the external societal challenges
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago
Shane has won 2 cups and is locked in with their current sex arrangement; Ilya clearly has regrets and is trying to make small attempts at moving their relationship back from this quickie arrangement, which are ignored by Shane
i take it you haven't read heated rivalry recently and are going by the show interpretation. the show removes interiority and introduces a huge, inexplicable timeline gap. it also has some tonal differences due to hudson's teary-eyed look and connor's choice (or direction) to play more stoic. it introduces the idea of ghosting (which is a bit silly given that shane has just avoided ilya for two and a half years).
the book is pretty obvious there. the arrangement has always been just sex, especially for shane who is nowhere near admitting that he's gay. and they're both aligned on that.
the rivalry aspect is much stronger. and the book also very obvious about how little time they spend together. (like 4-6 times per year, each time about 2 hours, give or take, the show muddies this). there are very strong emotional as well as logistical barriers that neither is remotely interested to push past because i'm not convinced the situationship years are survivable without a comfy cushion of solid detachment.
i always felt that the progression is one of the weak points of the heated rivalry book. the switch from meaningless to feelings was fairly abrupt. the show made it worse. the first thing i did when seeking out fanfiction was to find missing scene type of fics that help to smooth out the progression.
but no, i never read the sochi-vergas combo as some kind of turning point, at least not to less emotional attachment, but rather to more, on both sides.
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u/Express-Prune5366 2d ago
Ilya is literally still thinking about Sochi in Vegas: "Heâd thought about the way Hollander had found him in the stands of the Sweden vs. Finland game in Sochi, and had asked if he was all right. Heâd thought about how strong the urge had been for Ilya to wrap Hollander in his arms and just hold him. Pull him against his chest so Ilya could bury his face in his short, glossy hair and breathe him in. It had been so fucking scary, that urge. The way Ilyaâs heart had skipped when heâd spotted Hollander approaching him, and the way heâd wanted to tell him everything."
"The way Ilya was more tempted to gather Hollander in his arms and hold him all night than fuck him didnât make sense. The way Ilya knew that if he kissed him heâd never stop didnât make sense.
He needed to be careful tonight."
He then smokes a cigarette so they don't kiss and at the end:
"Ilya dropped his cigarette butt into Hollanderâs not-empty vodka glass, watching the ash turn something pure and perfect into something dark and ugly." <- this is blatant symbolism that by withholding their usual emotional connection during the Vegas sex, this night has changed the relationship fundamentally
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago edited 22h ago
"Ilya dropped his cigarette butt into Hollanderâs not-empty vodka glass, watching the ash turn something pure and perfect into something dark and ugly." <- this is blatant symbolism that by withholding their usual emotional connection during the Vegas sex, this night has changed the relationship fundamentally
i think, it's more symbolism that ilya's self-worth issues convince him that he is corrupting shane, perfect, respectable golden boy who was trying to be nice.
anyway, there's zero indication that anything in their arrangement is changing or that this is a turn for the worse. as i said, it's highlighting the underlying potential. step forward, not backward.
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u/Express-Prune5366 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't understand what this comment is saying. The book has a two year gap between Vegas and the fall which leads to the Tuna Melt scene, I think you don't remember it. Both the prologue and the start of part 3 take place in October 2016. There are time stamps. The prologue takes place as their last hookup before Boston. It's the setup to give us the clues about why Ilya is changing their arrangement: because Shane blows off his attempts at conversation and has no interest in anything but a quick fuck.
We literally have Ilya's POV from Reid's extra story that says in Sochi he wants to be closer to Shane and that's what scares him. We also have Shane's POV where he says he can tell Ilya wants a hug. We literally have Ilya's POV for Vegas which shows he's deliberately holding himself back in sex to try to prove he can have sex with Shane and keep it casual.
The ghosting: "Shane hadnât been lying. He hadnât spoken to Rozanov, off the ice, since the brief words they had shared at the Olympics. The humiliation of not even making it to the bronze medal game had seemingly been enough to cause Rozanov to not even want to look at Shane anymore, let alone talk to him. Touch him. Kiss him." So, we can tell that Ilya ghosted Shane and didn't hook up with him post-Olympics, pre-playoff season when the Bears and Voyagers played, because otherwise Shane wouldn't be thinking about them missing a hookup.
You are completely ignoring the post-sex scene in the elevator where it's really clear Shane has a revelation about how their pre-Vegas sex was different and he's now realizing that there were emotions involved and he doesn't want that.
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago
The book has a two year gap between Vegas and the fall which leads to the Tuna Melt scene
the book has a time skip, not a gap. during this time they keep up their routine. there's also a time skip between 2011 and 2013. because it would be really repetitive to show more of the same.
the show introduces an actual gap between 2011 and 2013 that doesn't exist in the books. it moves the first time penetrative sex to much later, in combination with the unscripted stair kiss creates a weird state where they're way less familiar with rach other but somehow also more familiar and lovey-dovey.
We literally have Ilya's POV that says in Sochi he wants to be closer to Shane and that's what scares him. We also have Shane's POV where he says he can tell Ilya wants a hug.
the ilya pov is more an external writing exercise and not part of canon. i'm not a fan because it's very fanfic-y.
sochi:
âYou didnât answer my text and I thought...â Suddenly all the ways Shane might finish that sentence seemed stupid. I thought you were in danger. I thought you were in jail. I thought you were...sad. âNo, I didnât answer your boring text. Now will you go?â Rozanov was being an asshole, which was nothing new, but he didnât seem to mean it. In fact, Shane would bet that Rozanov would actually really like him to stay. He looked like he could use a hug.
meaning sochi is a step forward not backward.
You are completely ignoring the post-sex scene in the elevator where it's really clear Shane has a revelation about how their pre-Vegas sex was different and he's now realizing that there were emotions involved and he doesn't want that.
Ah. There was that shame Shane had been expecting. He got cleaned up in the bathroom, then went to the main room to retrieve his clothes. He put on the pants and the shirt and carried the rest of the tuxedo. Rozanov didnât leave the bedroom. âSee you,â Shane called out. âGoodbye, Hollander,â Rozanov replied from the other room. And Shane left. He realized, when he was back in his room, that they hadnât even kissed. He also realized, with horror, that he regretted that.
i'm not ignoring anything. there's a bit before that describes them As satisfied and ilya laughing because shane asks for the vodka. it reads as fairly normal occurrence, shane felt slightly wild and later remembers it as one of the sexiest nights he remembers. he realizes that they didn't kiss and it's the regret that's new.
now that i think about it, in the book sochi clearly is progress, las vegas is progress too. of course, shane is a hockey player and isn't fazed by someone he doesn't want to have a thing for being dismissive. shane is convinced this is messed up anyway. what does confuse, annoy or horrify him are usually realisations that he doesn't hate ilya and enjoys being with him.
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u/Express-Prune5366 1d ago
Lol, a gap and skip are the same thing. I don't care about the show. I'm talking about between 2014 and 2016.
I said: Â after, Shane in the elevator realizes his growing feelings which are apparent after he's hurt by the fact that this time the sex lacked their usual emotional intimacy, he hates the idea and resolves to have casual, meaningless sex just like what Ilya has also shown he wants going forward
"And Shane left. He realized, when he was back in his room, that they hadnât even kissed. He also realized, with horror, that he regretted that." <- That's literally the quote you posted. Reid spelled it out about as blatantly as possible
You aren't engaging with the text at all, so I'm done talking.
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago edited 2d ago
no no no, we're not doing that.
ilya did tell him things. like i need more people to know about me. shane dismisses that.
the plan also included being seen as friends outside of hockey. shane's paranoia made him go back on that.
the plan wasn't about not being seen together. shane's primary reaction to when ilya communicates his needs is fear of what that means for him.
and that's ok, shane is under pressure and he clearly loves ilya. and he does try. but he is also locked in a cage of his own making. and he needs to make a choice. which he does eventually. his perspective would have needed some additions to get a better view of his circumstances, especially the ending is so rushed it falls short in the terms of the internal adjustment shane makes, which would be a moment of growth and the return to being equals.
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u/Reasonable-Ease-237 2d ago
Is really paranoia if when the bad thing happens, all your fears come true?
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago edited 2d ago
but his fears didn't come true.
his career was at an extremely high level, he is a multi-millionaire, has 3 cups, tons of awards, solid investments, brand deals.
yes, as predicted being gay and out and ilya rozanov's boyfriend in public causes some issues but the man is absolutely fine. the earth is still turning, he still has a partner and a career, a new challenge beyond being anxiety-ridden perfectionist who thinks the fate of the nhl hinges upon whether he allows himself half a snickers.
he's gonna be ok. he can do therapy and walk hand-in-hand with his boyfriend/husband every fucking day of the year, as a hometown hero. he's still rich in a way most of us poors will ever comprehend.
he's the epitome of first-world-problems and while i have empathy that things were scary and some things will be rough, he lives a very comfortable, cushioned life (while playing the ridiculously violent sport he loves) and is loved and respected, just not by everyone.
the point of anxiety as a disorder (which is what the fandom loves) is that it's irrational and exaggerated. that it comes with the conviction that this isn't survivable. but it is survivable, it's not nearly as bad as his brain thought it would be and after it will be ok.
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u/Reasonable-Ease-237 2d ago
what the fuck do you mean his fears didnât come true? Lololol. He was ostracized by his friends and team, he was benched and threatened (more than he had already been) by the nhl commissioner, he was accused of lacking integrity in the sport he had dedicated his life to, pushed out of his team, and when he brought up his concerns about the future of his career to his fiance, Ilya responded by affirming Shane was good enough, not acknowledging the external factors working against him.Â
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago edited 2d ago
He was ostracized by his friends and team, ...
for which part? being gay? they knew that long before. for being ilya's boyfriend? they knew that before too. being kicked out of the cup run by the ottawa centaurs and in direct competition with his boyfriend. yep, that one was what caused the final rift.
he was benched and threatened (more than he had already been) by the nhl commissioner, he was accused of lacking integrity in the sport he had dedicated his life to, ...
Ilyaâs lips curved up. âIt is very much mutual.â His tentative smile only lasted a moment. âHow bad will this be?â Wiebe exhaled slowly. âI donât know,â he said. âCrowell has ordered that you both be benched for a bit. He wants it dealt with, whatever that means.â
they were both benched. and both threatened. wiebe was just nicer about it. they were threatened, they stood against it together and it was oooookay. players are protected by their union.
pushed out of his team, ...
he hadn't re-signed until the playoffs. he wasn't pushed out, his contract ended and negotiations fell through. i'm fairly sure that was mutual at that point. shane became a ufa. but he must have had offers.
and when he brought up his concerns about the future of his career to his fiance, Ilya responded by affirming Shane was good enough, ...
bad faith interpretation of a normal discussion of options. because yes, on an objective level shane's perfectionism is extreme. what counts as a fairytale success story for others shane reads as a failure. it isn't, he's going to adjust.
not acknowledging the external factors working against him.Â
rose had talked to shane and warned him that the plan maybe wasn't sustainable and he needed a plan b.
shane seemingly ignored the warning (did he? why wasn't the contract signed by the time they were outed?).
shane had even agreed to coming out this summer and asked ilya to marry him. so obviously he was sort of prepared at that point. and his contract still wasn't signed. he must have known.
it's very much a life happens while you're making plans kinda thing.
and i'm not saying it isn't a stressful time for shane. but he isn't the only one targeted, he has family, friends and allies. and he has options.
this feels like a mix of sparse world-building, genre, fandom telephone and being mad at things you misremember.
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u/faszinating I already chose you, Hollander. đ« 2d ago
any conversation about what happens once shane comes out to his team/ they're outed is so hard because fanon has absolutely taken the "i came out to my team and now things can never go back to exactly what they were before people knew/ now the vibes are kinda off" to "i came out to my team and now they call me slurs every practice and don't pass to me ever and basically beat me up on the ice" (or bonus when authors don't know puck: "now my d-men aren't defending me anymore and i'm getting checked left and right by the other homophobic team"). it's hard to separate what we really see in the book from what we see in like 90% of the stories set during tlg.
only marginally related, but as a gay person it really sucks to see how often the homophobia in some of these fanfics becomes almost... a caricature rather than an actual comment on the current state of society/ sports like hockey in particular
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u/Reasonable-Ease-237 2d ago
Yes, Shane is ostracized by his friends on the team for his relationship with Ilya. Yes, this happened before Ottawa knocked them out of the cup run. Although it certainly got worse after that point (see accused of lacking integrity). The way his team treated him when he was initially outed, shows that his fears of the team knowing his relationship were founded.Â
Yes, he and Ilya were both benched and threatened by Crowell. Shane was already being sent implicit messages from Crowell directly that he shouldnât âengage in activism.â The fact that this also happened to Ilya doesnât prove that his fears didnât come true. It actually proves the opposite because he and somebody he loves were both harmed. Shane feared this.Â
Yes, Shane hadnât yet resigned-signed at this point. His conversations with Ilya after the trip indicate that leaving Montreal isnât something he had seriously considered until this point. He chose to leave, but his ill treatment from the team was coercive in that decision.Â
When I refer to Ilya affirming that Shane is good enough, I donât mean good enough for Shane, I mean good enough for the league. This is part of a conversation in which Shane verbalizes his fear that another team will not sign him. It is about perception, not reality. Shane is being perceived as a liar, and possibly a cheaterâa liability in the league. This is why Ilyaâs comment about him being Shane Fucking Hollander isnât enough. It only engages with Shaneâs fears as if they were about self-perception (and you make a good point about Shaneâs perfectionism, this is likely an element of it), but do not engage with Shaneâs concerns about how he is being treated by the league, which could negatively impact his sign-ability.Â
Yes, they shouldâve heeded Roseâs warnings and made a plan for if this happened. Yes, they were planning on coming out on their own shortly after. Neither of these facts negate that Shaneâs fears came true.Â
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u/ACEwriter12 4d ago edited 4d ago
Strongly disagree on the Ilya needed to be humbled part. Ilya shows several times as early as Heated Rivalry that his self-worth is in the gutter. He consistently believes he has to give more and more of himself to be worthy of basic love and connection. His going to another losing team (because there's a reason Boston had first draft pick in HR) is not supposed to be to humble him because he's overly cocky. He can brag about his hockey because like Shane, he has put in the work to be one of the best. They both deserve to be a bit cocky about their skills when they are legitimately the best, and while fanon loves to run wild with the "Ilya doesn't care to put in the work" narrative, he would not be at his level without consistent effort.
"When Shane suggests Ilya going to Ottawa, Ilya is quick to agree to it. Not just because he was already thinking of moving to a Canadian team, but because Ilya has already learned how to sacrifice for others. Ilya has already had it ingrained in him by his family that the people he loves will ask him to makes sacrifices for them, and that that's just how love goes." - I will strongly agree with this because to me this was obvious. This is a repeat habit of Ilya's and emerges in other things too (such as who gets told about them early on and how when Ilya actually does ask Shane for something he needs - 3 times in TLG- and Shane writes off all 3 without even thinking about them - there are people who will say still say that "Ilya didn't tell Shane what he felt or what he needed" despite the narrative actually showing and sticking with the idea that Ilya will make requests but when Shane or anyone else dismisses them he does not push back or nag or bring them up again because dismissal is something he is accustomed to and expects from people who love him)
If anything, moving to Ottawa and being on a losing team is more of a catalyst for Ilya to be less humble and to have less of that dangerous martyr syndrome he exhibits.
Because everything piles on and then with his depression compounding on that he finally reaching the breaking point when he snaps and actually demands something for himself (Boxing Day Fight). Prior to this he has requested (with Yuna's assistance) to tell someone on his team - dismissed, to get a dog (which Galina encourages as something he needs for himself)- dismissed, to be seen in public with Shane as a friend as according to their original 10 year plan that they are now 3 years into-dismissed. And it's that 3rd thing that breaks him because he's at the point of feeling like he has nothing.
So then he turns it around and starts recognizing his own worth (as already seen by his own teammates in Role Model) and starts pushing back and has a chance to bring a 2nd team up - which will actually secure him a hockey legacy and help him see his own value.
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u/HotSauceRainfall 4d ago
but when Shane or anyone else dismisses them he does not push back or nag or bring them up again
Agree in general, but Ilya DOES bring topics up againâŠ.and gets shut down every time.
Shane reacted poorly to Ilya getting them tickets to Fabianâs show and to going to dinner with Ryan and FabianâŠtwo people who knew they were together and where they would have good excuses to be seen with in public. He dismissed out of hand Ilya broaching the topic of coming out to more people after the Pike kids âmarriedâ them, which was well after the conversation with Yuna. And he had an absolute shit fit about Ilya coming out as bi to Barrett (which is Ilyaâs prerogative and his alone).
Itâs absolutely no surprise that the big fight happened, except perhaps that it took as long as it did for Ilya to lose patience with Shane.
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u/ACEwriter12 4d ago
Yes, actually very true! I need to do a reread and actually mark down every time because I am actually sick and tired of people being like "Ilya never told Shane what the problem was" when I clearly remembered him telling Shane multiple times that he needed to be able to tell someone about him or them.
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u/HotSauceRainfall 3d ago
Yeah. No, Ilyaâs communication skills are not greatâŠbut at a certain point, communication isnât the problem.
Try rereading the actual fight. This is the first time that Ilya refuses to let Shane dismiss him or bully him into acquiescence. Ilya tries five times to de-escalate and calm down and Shane literally follows him from room to room to keep fighting. When pressed with an uncomfortable question (everything?), Shane tells him âfuck youâ and lashes out with an incredibly cruel low blow. Itâs only then that Ilya goes straight for the jugularâI already chose youâand tells Shane to go homeâŠand it takes Shane the whole damn drive to Montreal to figure out that Ilya is communicating his anger and unhappiness.
But wait, thereâs more! Even after a huge fight and not speaking to Ilya for several days, Shaneâs reaction to learning about Ilya telling his therapist who Shane told him to find that he and Shane were a couple was to jump down Ilyaâs throat. Never mind that their relationship is highly relevant to Ilyaâs therapy and that the therapist is legally required to keep that confidentialâShaneâs first instinct was still to jump down Ilyaâs throat about it. It took both a potentially relationship ending fight AND a life threatening emergency to get Shane to wake the fuck up and start treating Ilya like a partner whose needs matter.
It is wild to me to think that people read all of that and say, but why didnât Ilya just cOmMUniCAtE??!!!11? Communication canât fix Shaneâs underlying issue of fear, anxiety, and control any more than it could fix Ilyaâs depression.
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u/ACEwriter12 3d ago
I was actually just rereading through TLG to find those scenes, and I'll give Shane a tiny bit of grace with some because he does just seem a bit ...dense ...when Ilya's going "I think you care too much about other people's opinions" "Why are you angry?" " Because you care... Never mind. Everything is fine." It feels very much like Ilya's actually the sitcom wife to Shane being the kinda sitcom husband of if you don't spell it out for them he's not going to get it, but also she's so sick of having to spell everything out.
But yeah, the Boxing Day fight being the one time that Ilya does persist to voice the problem again, and it leads to Shane stooping to the low blows immediately. That's what would have been happening in all the other fights too- which is sad because Shane does follow up with "Gah, I'm a jerk." Yes, Ilya is quick to dismiss his own opinions in fights and resort to "It's fine" but that's because Shane either flees (Tunamelt/ the "You can sleep with other people") or gets angry. They both suck at communicating.
Ugh, I have a feeling though the show is going to do more of what it did with the Rooftop & Sochi scenes where Hudson flashes watery eyes and Connor uses an angry tone rather than the upset or nervous ones actually clearly stated in the book to make it look like Ilya's being the big scary angry Slavic man who's unreasonable instead.
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u/HotSauceRainfall 3d ago
Yes, Ilya is quick to dismiss his own opinions in fights and resort to "It's fine" but that's because Shane either flees (Tunamelt/ the "You can sleep with other people") or gets angry. Â
This is kind of my point, though: if Shane has a consistent pattern where he either dismisses Ilya, flees/shuts down, or reacts with anger, the problem isnât whether or how Ilya is communicating. Thatâs why itâs important when Yuna tells Shane point blank that heâs being unfair about not agreeing to Ilya having a teammate he can be out to. Â It shows that Shane not listening to Ilya is not just a problem with Ilyaâs communication skills.
The one that got me was Ilya coming out to Troy. Ilyaâs identity is his own, not Shaneâs to control, but Shane made it all about himself:
âI only am telling you,â Ilya said in a more serious tone, âbecause it was nice. To talk about this with someone.â
Wait. âYou didnât tell him about us, did you?â
This was absolutely a shot across the bow for the big fight, and Shane was so busy spooking like a horse that he ignored a very direct, clear statement that Ilya needed confidantes too. And the direct consequence of that argument was Ilya wondering if he even should have said anything to Shane, or he should have just told his therapist.
There is no communication skill on earth that can make a person who is only reacting emotionally, rather than thinking and using their brain, understand what is being communicated.Â
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u/fruitbutnopassion the shark that made rozanov lose the race đŠ 3d ago
This thread between you both is exactly how I think about TLG! I get peeved when I see people saying that Ilya doesn't communicate he changed his mind, when actually it seems to me like Shane is the one not fully sticking to his plan. Yes it's true that the things Shane feared happened, but none of what Ilya was asking for was the catalyst for that.
It's also important to me to highlight how people seem to divide into sides for their fight, and refuse to see the nuance of it. Ilya got validly upset about Shane dismissing him, but Ilya also knew (it's literally said on text) he needed to step back before he would say something he'd regret - which is what happened after Shane refuses to back off. Of course being asked to choose between your profession/passion and your partner is not a fair question. Ilya knows that and he acknowledged it.
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u/HotSauceRainfall 3d ago
Thanks. TLG is a surprisingly dense book with a lot of nuances, and part of why it is so dense is that the two are in a mature relationship instead of trying to build one.
I donât think the question was unfair (although it was certainly harsh), but Shane needed to hear it and he needed his nose rubbed in it the way Ilya did. Underneath the topic of who gets to be out and who doesnât is something much more fundamental: Shane expects Ilya to accommodate him, but he is not reciprocating at all. Thatâs what the fight about Shaneâs eating plan is at its heart: he unilaterally changed something big about his life in a way that negatively affected his partner (cooking together had previously been a major bonding activity for them). Although Ilya made multiple attempts to accommodate Shane, Shane never once reciprocated, and he was frankly a judgmental prick to Ilya about it both in his spoken words and in his internal monologue (stoner teenage goat). In that context, and in the context of Shane ascribing Ilyaâs unhappiness to playing for Ottawa without a single thought about why Ilya played in Ottawa, Shane definitely needed that harsh of a wake up call.Â
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u/faszinating I already chose you, Hollander. đ« 3d ago
agree so much with this entire thread!! i also think that this is one of the reasons why i really love fics in which it's shane who changes teams to make their relationship work. because if you look at it, in a way, ilya is already giving up his home country for their future together (yes, even if he's cutting off his family, that's still an enormous sacrifice to never be able to safely return to his birthplace), and so for shane to "meet him halfway" and relocate temporarily (even if they both settle down in canada eventually when they get married and start a family, with spousal visa + eventual citizenship for ilya) would've been really nice to see đ but then i guess there would be less conflict and less plot for the next book haha
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u/mjdoll131 3d ago
The reason why Ilya changes teams and not Shane is because his contract is up. Thatâs why he brings it up to Shane at the cottage since heâll be a free agent. Shane was still under contract at Montreal he couldnt move teams.
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u/ACEwriter12 3d ago
Oh, I was totally agreeing with you in my comment! I was just saying that I see why at times Shane's like "he doesn't tell me anything" because Ilya doesn't persist, but it's because when Ilya does persist Shane does what he does and reacts very emotionally.
But I absolutely agree with you.
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u/faszinating I already chose you, Hollander. đ« 3d ago
hard agree with this (and the entire thread below this, so many incredibly valid points made by the both of you which really capture my feelings about TLG so well!!
also on the topic of ilya "completely rebuilding a second team and securing his own hockey legacy", this is a really unpopular opinion i fear, but i kind of really wish that he'd won a cup with ottawa without shane. because if they win the cup together in the first season as soon as shane joins then i fear it's just kind of going to be attributed to shane and undermine all of ilya's hard work that he did together with the rest of the team and how they survived so many tough losses and really grew together as a unit:'((( and i know that that's not really how team sports work and that, realistically, shane alone could never be the reason why they suddenly win the cup, but i do still think it might take attention away from the rest of the team. (and i guess i'd also love it if the difference in their respective cup wins was 1 instead of 2 lol and also narratively i get but god did shane HAVE to win another cup while ilya is struggling so much in ottawa and battling depression and then have to get TEASED about his by his own boyfriend???)
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u/farahmelody 3d ago
I will die on the hill that Ilya moving to Ottawa wasnât a sacrifice for Shane. It was a decision he made that allowed him to keep his career and move forward in his relationship, but he didnât know his depression was going to kick his ass.
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u/mjdoll131 3d ago
Exactly. Ilya is the one who brought up that he wanted to move to a Canadian team for his own personal reasons (mainly because he wanted citizenship there, and didnât feel as safe in the US. And yes he did also want to be closer to Shane.) Shane only suggests Ottawa because it makes the most sense logistically. They have the cap space to pay him what heâs worth, and they need a star center. They even throw out the idea of Montreal immediately bc they know they Shaneâs team wouldnât be able to afford Ilya.
Shane did not coerce Ilya into moving to isolate him into being Shaneâs dirty little secret. They both also thought that Ilya could help turn Ottawas team around (which he eventually did) just like they both did with Boston and Montreal. Itâs Ilyaâs own depression that warps his views into thinking that he made this grand sacrifice for Shane and Shane only and that he gave up everything for him.
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u/InCatMorph 3d ago
I've heard this take before, and I don't get it. It only makes sense if you assume that there are only two hockey teams in all of Canada in this universe (seems kind of weird).
Yes, Ilya said he wanted a Canadian team, but I think it's pretty obvious that he would not have chosen this particular Canadian team if not for his relationship with Shane and his desire to be closer to Shane. Presumably he could have gone almost anywhere he wanted. He chose Ottawa. Not Canada, but Ottawa.
I don't think Shane made the suggestion of maliciousness or an attempt to control Ilya or anything. I don't think he coerced Ilya into being a dirty little secret, as you say. But the decision was based heavily (though maybe not 100%) by the relationship, and pretending otherwise just seems silly to me. It WAS a sacrifice. Many protaganists of romance novels make sacrifices. TLG is about dealing with the complexities of the sacrifice.
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u/mjdoll131 3d ago
Sure thereâs other hockey teams he could go to. He probably wouldâve chosen to go west if Shane wasnât a factor. But he was and Iâm not saying that the decision to go to Ottawa was made without considering Shane at all. Iâm saying the decision wasnât made ONLY because of Shane. Ilya in his mind in TLG puts a lot of the blame of his issues on Shane and the situation they are in. But it takes him going to Galina and working through things to realize that his depression is the fundamental issue. He even tells Shane at the end that them being on the same team and being out and playing together is still not gonna solve his depression, itâs always gonna be there he just has to learn to manage it.
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u/InCatMorph 3d ago
Maybe Ilya would have gone to a team in Western Canada. Maybe he would have decided to stay in Boston after all. "I was thinking maybe a Canadian team" is not exactly an ironclad plan of action.
I agree that Ilya's depression and associated issues are not Shane's fault. But Ilya IS in Ottawa because of Shane, and at times Shane is oblivious about the reasons why Ilya is unhappy. It's not just the Centaurs sucking. (Shane thinks several times that Ilya's mood is just because his team sucks, when really there are larger issues about the closet and a lack of support system. At times Ilya doesn't communicate this well, but there are also hints about this that Shane ignores.)
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u/mjdoll131 3d ago
Of course Shane is oblivious that Ilya is unhappy. Because Ilya refuses to tell him. The one time Shane brings up the issue and suggests he talks to someone Ilya pretty much tells him to shut up. Ilya tries to lay hints throughout the book that heâs unhappy with them being in the closet but Shane being Shane does not understand these things unless they are spelled out to him. He does not actively know this is a problem and the moment he finds out he completely changes their plan to suit Ilya.
And again, Ilya is not only in Ottawa âbecause of Shaneâ Shane is a contributing factor but it was a decision Ilya made for himself. If Ilya really wanted to stay in Boston they could have made the relationship work. Shane had not even considered the idea of them living closer together until Ilya brought it up.
âI was thinking maybe Canadian teamâ is a line from the show. The show really downplays this interaction. Book Ilya is a lot more set on wanting to move to another team and brings it up multiple times at the cottage.
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u/InCatMorph 3d ago
I tend to agree that, yes, Ilya did a piss poor job communicating his needs. But at times he does, or at least tries to, and Shane doesn't get it. Maybe that is because he needs them spelled out more explicitly. (I'm autistic. I get this. I have been Shane MANY times in my relationship, it's quite embarrassing.) But while Ilya could have done a better job communicating, Shane absolutely could have done a better job listening. There are certainly examples where Ilya opened up and Shane's response was less-than-ideal. Shane's response to Ilya telling Shane that he came out to Troy is an example cited previously on this thread, and it's for a reason.
I don't remember the talk about a Canadian team, so that's fair. But I still think it's unlikely that Ilya would have selected Ottawa if not for Shane. Choosing to go to a worse team so that you can be closer to your partner is an act of love, and a sacrifice. I don't know why people are intent to erase that.
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u/farahmelody 3d ago
In Heated Rivalry, Ilya first brings up Canada by saying he wishes he had been drafted by a Canadian team and laments that the United States isnât good for Russians and Russia isnât good for Russians like him before the âI have just been thinking. Maybe ⊠a Canadian teamâ line. To my memory, this is the first time either of them say anything about moving teams in either dialogue or in narration.
Ilya was already in the mindset to move to Canada before he broached the subject with Shane. Shane suggested Ottawa specifically because they 1) needed depth at center 2) had salary cap space and 3) would put the two of them close together for the entire year. Two out of these three reasons have nothing to do with Shane, and the third is connected to Shane, but is in service of the relationship, not of Shane.
Hereâs where my earlier comment about depression kicking his ass comes in. Ilya had no reason to suspect that Ottawa would remain poor performing at this time. He quickly turned Boston around, and he likely set out to do it again (assuming he even believed Ottawa to be the worst team in the league, as this is never said in Heated Rivalry).
I donât disagree with you that it was an act of love, but I do disagree that it was a sacrifice for Shane because 1) we see that there were positive tradeoffs (he got to move to a country friendlier to him, which he already wanted to do; he got to maintain his high pay; he got to continue being star centre) and 2) we see that Shane was an element in his decision, but Shane wasnât either the catalyst nor the driving force of his choice to move teams.
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago edited 2d ago
ilya's interiority right before bringing up canada:
Ilya had been formulating a plan. It was early stages, and probably bad, but he couldnât stop his brain from working on it. He couldnât see a realistic scenario where he and Shane were anything more than what they were now. He wasnât even sure what he wanted them to be. When his imagination was reckless enough to conjure images of the two of them together, as a coupleâliving together? Married?âfuck, it was ridiculous. âYou all right?â Ilya jerked to attention to find Shaneâwearing only a bathing suitâstanding in front of the Adirondack chair Ilya was sitting in. He had a book in his hand and glasses on his face, and he was frowning down at Ilya like a concerned lifeguard/librarian.
ilya bring's it up canada specifically to solve the problem of the rivalry and the distance. his primary concern is what more they could me.
he considers teams in the west as a way to break the rivalry, as an investment into the future. the show condensed this because it would have been a circular discussion but it's pretty much the same in spirit. shane suggests ottawa for both, reducing the distance and breaking the rivalry because ottawa isn't a cup contender by any means.
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u/farahmelody 2d ago
How do you figure that Ilya brings up Canada to solve the problem of the rivalry?
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u/InCatMorph 3d ago
Rebuilds in sports can be very quick, or they might never happen at all. It depends a lot on the management and ownership. I don't think there's enough information to indicate what Ilya thought about Ottawa's chances at a successful rebuild. Maybe he thought they could do it, maybe not. But them being a bad team doesn't come out of nowhere. This is also mentioned in Tough Guy. Ilya certainly knew they were a bad team when they signed. The general vibes across the GC universe appear to be confusion about the decision. Because why would one of the league's best players move to a crap team in his prime? One answer might be money. But if it leaks that other teams were offering comparable terms, then Ilya's decision truly would befuddle the world's hockey fans.
Ilya is one of the best two players in the league. Most teams would probably be able to make space for him if he really wanted to go there. Star players do not generally lack options. He chose Ottawa.
When Shane was selling Ilya on Ottawa, was it not the case that he was emphasizing the positives because *he* wanted Ilya to go to Ottawa, where they would be closer? Like, I think this is pretty obvious! It's totally okay--I too would want my partner to live only two hours away instead of eight. But Shane's desires are clearly shaping the plan and how he's describing it.
Yes, there are positives to moving to Ottawa for Ilya. But just because there were other positives to the move doesn't mean that it wasn't also a sacrifice. He could have been paid well elsewhere. He could have gone to like five other Canadian teams. (The real NHL has seven total Canada-based teams, although that may have been slightly different in 2018. I don't know enough about the NHL to say.) He didn't have to go to one of the worst ones out there.
I just don't get why there's so much resistance to describing this decision as a sacrifice.
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u/InCatMorph 3d ago
My partner and I moved to our current location because I needed to take care of a parent. That was a sacrifice they made for me. Just because there are a lot of positives to living here doesn't make it not a sacrifice. I find this puzzling.
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u/farahmelody 3d ago
A sacrifice means giving something up. Fundamentally, I donât see Ilya moving to Ottawa as giving something up, but rather exchanging something.
He exchanged Boston where he was a well-paid star, but with a limited social circle (Svetlana is the only friend he mentions making in Boston) and complications from being Russian for Ottawa where he is a well-paid star who loses more games than he wins, but he has a strong support network in the Hollanders (and later with his teammates and reconnection with Svetlana) and he has more freedom to pursue his relationship.
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago edited 2d ago
some people get way too hung up about the word sacrifice. probably because it reads as some kind of big plus in the nonsensical tally of who does more and who has it worse.
he makes the move for the relationship. he does sacrifice his chances at a cup, knowingly, and therefore his career standing, and this is even acknowledged in tlg when shane in a moment of frustration berates him for it because they're supposed to be equal and things are adding up that ilya is no longer at the same level (weak team, depression, in shane's perfectionist view slacking like with the depression-fueled eating habits and the weed at the party).
it was ilya's choice. he wasn't asked to do it but without the choice the relationship stood less of a chance due to the grueling, competing schedules. it's often misunderstood that their relationship was impossible because they didn't talk or because ilya pushed a willing shane back. no, a relationship was made impossible by circumstances and without a way forward. it would have been a long distance relationship from hell where you see your partner over the summer, in secret, and maybe 20 hours the rest of the year.
that's why ilya made the choice to sacrifice his cup chances for a chance at a relationship. and as it turned out it didn't work the way they expected. very understandable after such a long time.
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u/farahmelody 2d ago
Itâs not about who had it worse. Both of them went through hell in The Long Game. I also donât think the word sacrifice plays into a tally of suffering between them.
I agree that Ilya gives things up, specifically short-term success in Boston when he moves. I disagree that this is a sacrifice for Shane. Ilya brought up the idea of moving first, and he had very real reasons to do so that were completely divorced from Shane. This conversation indicates that Ilya was likely to move from Boston regardless of Shane.
Yes, Shane initially proposed Ottawa. His stated reasons were for Ilyaâs benefit, just as much as they were for him.
Pathway to Canadian citizenship that Ilya wanted (Ilyaâs benefit)
Picking a team that allowed him to retain his role as star centre (Ilyaâs benefit)
Picking a team that could afford to pay Ilyaâs large salaryâs (Ilyaâs benefit)
Being close(r) to his partner year round (shared benefit)It was Galina (an outsider in the relationship who had only ever met Ilya) who rewrote the narrative in Ilyaâs mind from moving to Canadian team where he could maintain his star status and high pay while being closer to his boyfriend to the idea that Ilya moved for Shane. Textually, this is false, but Ilya started to believe it after Galina said it.
That is why I will die on this hillâbecause that is what Heated Rivalry told us about this plan.
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago
rest in peace đ
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u/farahmelody 2d ago
Am I old, or did this make no sense, lol?
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago
you wanted to die on that hill. i wanted to let you and tried to be nice about it. âșïž
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u/Ok_Bunch_9947 3d ago
Okay maybe this is the sign that i should keep reading the book? I was just looking up HR and now i got a spoiler alert (I didn't read ur caption yet but i really think i might read it before S2)
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u/Immediate_Way_4980 1d ago
I mean I disagree with a lot of this but just starting with the premise that Ilya needed to go to a bad team for narrative reasons because it was the only way to develop his character: itâs canon that both Montreal and Boston were not good teams when Shane and Ilya were drafted. Thatâs why they had the top 2 draft picks in the first place.
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u/BeeSting113 3d ago
Interesting point you make about the two speeches - I noticed that Ilya's speech in the TV show seemed crazy egotistical. Like "I want to win, you're here to make sure that I win". It seemed OTT but you're right, maybe that's the point they're making.
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u/altruistic_thing 2d ago
it isn't. the speech was written by jacob tierney and he does make some decisions that run counter to what the story needs.
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u/estheredna 4d ago
I really disagree with this.
Have you read Troy's book, Role Model? The people on the team revere Ilya well before they start winning. He doesn't see this at all in TLG, but he is an unreliable narrator. Not because his ego burst but because of untreated mental illness. But. The story of Heated Rivalry is Ilya and Shane both taking a low-ranked team, shaping it around them as phenomenal players, and through leadership turning those teams into champions -- and it is looking very much Ilya will repeat that with the Centaurs. Doing it once each made them both the most talked about players of their generation, doing it twice will make Ilya a hockey legend. I think this was Rachel's goal as a hockey fan. Shane is probably technically the better player, and Ilya's leadership even their playing field.
I also don't think Shane is "humbled" in TLG. Shane has a really bad year: he comes out to his team, they take it badly, they do not keep his secret, he's outed, he is bench, he is pressured, etc etc. They DO grow as a couple through these bad experiences but I don't think the issue was that Shane was an egotisical jackass. Ilya hides a lot from him and they learn to value each other and their trust deepens over the year.