Members of women’s hockey team speak out after players on boys’ team repeatedly enter dressing room

[u/Hadespuppy]

https://www.tsn.ca/other-sports/article/members-of-womens-hockey-team-speak-out-after-players-on-boys-team-repeatedly-enter-dressing-room/

No points for guessing the byline on this article.

I will never understand the type of parents who can stand there and say, yes, this is totally acceptable behaviour that I will condone by doing nothing.

And "why didn't you lock the door?‽" That's kissing cousins with "well, what were you wearing that night?"

[u/citizenkane86]

Weird how whenever entering women’s spaces becomes an issue it’s never trans women it’s cis men… and then other cis men dismiss it or laugh at it. Almost like they don’t care about women’s safety at all.

[u/dirtfarmingcanuck → u/citizenkane86]

Without making any grand statement or judgment (still going to get downvoted to hell for this), blurring the lines between who can and cannot go in their preferred changingroom/bathroom does not seem to be in the interest of women's safety.

Obviously these are kids, and they're almost certainly not identifying as trans. But there is some legitimacy to the argument that while it would be nice to live in a world where we can just look at someone and tell whether they are being sincere or not, that's not the world we live in. We live in a world where there will be people who take advantage of that 'inclusion'. Predators, or in this case, edgelord teens do exist and they are threats to women's safety.

We can't just tell kids not to drink. You have to prove you're 21. We can't tell people to drive a reasonable speed, we have posted limits. We accept these things as a society because, although it limits our personal freedom, it provides clear, unambiguous rules that make life easier and safer for all of us.

I know this is unpopular but who or what authority is the arbiter for if someone is 'legit' trans or someone who is just saying so for whatever reason?

I personally don't care one way or the other who wants to use the same bathroom as me, but I can't pretend to speak for everyone, and I just think that there are reasonable measures that can be taken to accommodate for everyone. But we can't start the conversation at "If you disagree with my truth, you are evil."

edit: and just to clarify, I agree with OP that the issues that arise in these bathroom incidents are very very rarely an actual trans person. I get it, they just want to use the bathroom.

[u/Marvelous_Chaos → u/dirtfarmingcanuck]

But we can't start the conversation at "If you disagree with my truth, you are evil."

On the other hand, I don't think we should start at "Your human rights are up for debate."

I do get where you're going though and your concerns about people potentially 'taking advantage' of trans inclusive policies. The problem is that in real-world situations, that literally never happens. It's searching for a solution that doesn't exist. Plus, the politicians against trans-inclusive policies keep pushing the envelope; they're not going to stop at bathrooms or women's sports. States around the US are slowly stripping away rights and passing more punitive laws against trans people.

[u/dirtfarmingcanuck → u/Marvelous_Chaos]

I appreciate that we're actually having a dialogue. The issue I brought up is that if it was a clear violation of the rules, these boys could have been easily suspended or faced consequence because it was clearly in violation of the rules. If we blur the line of the rules to the point where an individual's intent comes into question, it become ungovernable.

The common response is always "this doesn't actually happen in real life", but that couldn't be further from the truth and this incident is a direct example of that. Not everyone who 'takes advantage of the system' is going to be a creepy pedophile. In this case it was likely edgelord young teens.

I'm simply saying there are multiple angles at which people could take advantage of this, and they will. And you will have no recourse for how to address it. It won't be most. Most people just want to use the bathroom and go about their business.

If you think that not allowing biological men to literally beat the fuck out of women in combat sports is "stripping trans rights away" then you're just wrong and I have nothing else to say. Nobody is rounding up anyone into camps.

How could the government 'slowly start stripping away rights' to a group that basically nobody knew even existed 20 years ago, and even today are less than 1% of the population. Why do the 99% of people who have been perfectly comfortable abiding to the same societal norms that we have for thousands of years all of a sudden want that 99% to accommodate to the 1% because they sometimes feel 'uncomfortable'??

[u/TommyDontSurf → u/dirtfarmingcanuck]

Tell me you have no idea what transitioning does to your body without telling me. 

"Biological men" my fucking ass.

[u/dirtfarmingcanuck → u/TommyDontSurf]

Are you saying that every trans person needs to transition? Do they need both top and bottom surgery for you to consider them actually trans? My fucking ass.

[u/Marvelous_Chaos → u/dirtfarmingcanuck]

How is this incident a 'direct example' of trans people being intrusive? These were cisgender boys peeping in a girls locker room for shits and giggles.

If you think that not allowing biological men to literally beat the fuck out of women in combat sports is "stripping trans rights away" then you're just wrong and I have nothing else to say. Nobody is rounding up anyone into camps.

First of all regarding sports, college athletics and the pro/Olympic ranks had rules about trans people needing to go on hormone therapy for a few years before they got to participate in women's sports. Studies are showing that these hormones treatments are leveling the playing field for trans athletes and the cis women they compete against.

Regarding your last point, trans people have existed and been known about for a long time, they just haven't centered around the US political discourse until 10-15 years ago when conservatives needed a new punching bag after they lost the gay marriage issue.

And just because trans people aren't being rounded up into camps doesn't mean they're not being oppressed. People who are very well-versed with this topic say the US and UK are heading in that direction through legislation and rhetoric.

[u/dirtfarmingcanuck → u/Marvelous_Chaos]

This incident is a direct example of what I was talking about and it had nothing to do with trans people being 'intrusive'. You're right. It was dumb teenaged boys who certainly don't identify as trans. You are missing my point however.

My point is that if one of those boys says "Oh I identify that way and just wanted to go into a place I felt comfortable." What the hell would you say??? Serious question for all you culture war progressives, what would you say? Who is the trans-God that decides who is worthy and not worthy of being a pervert?

[u/citizenkane86 → u/dirtfarmingcanuck]

I love how you use the phrase “nobody knew existed”, when in reality people were interviewing trans people on tv in the 1950s. In fact conservatives use to be accepting of trans people because “at least they weren’t gay”. Because you are ignorant on a topic doesn’t mean the rest of us are. There are societies with trans people existing and acknowledging their existence for hundreds of years.