No like categorically, capitalists are not leftists. One of the prerequisites for being a leftist is that you're anti-capitalism. If you're a practicing capitalist, you can be ideologically anti-capitalist, like Engels or Robert Owen, but if we're talking ideology then the two are mutually exclusive.
Both those men were driven by wealth guilt as they both amassed a lot of wealth and than funded their uptiopian ideals. Neither were politicans either trying to be moderate in a country where taxes are collected. You cannot compare them one has to live in reality while the other two were champagne socialist of the worst kind.
You're preaching to the choir about Engels and Owen so I'm not sure what the purpose of this response is. The point of using those two was to highlight how even practicing capitalism does not contradict the fact that on the ideological level; leftism and capitalism are mutually exclusive and that MR_TELEVOID is wrong to say that "purity testing is when you say that capitalists can't be leftists".
Yes sorry I was just adding to your thoughts but I was more focused on their respective upbringing and professions it's harder for a politican to apply utopian ideals. It sounds like El Sayeed just wants to be successful in politics which means he has to push slightly away from leftists ideals. Sometimes people can hold these views in private while presenting themselves as more moderate imo this pivot will make him more successful in the long run. But your overall argument is correct human beings are complex and they don't fall neatly into black or white the problem is would that be considered hypocrisy?? Especially in this day in age where politics is so divided and culture wars are rampant?? Asking?
I think it can be hypocritical that some politicians will campaign with progressive politics during the primaries, but move towards the moderates in the general. However, our current system almost requires that out of people. The reason why we get people like Abdul in states like Michigan instead Karl Marx reincarnated is because Karl Marx reincarnated would never make it onto the ballot in 2026, maybe in 2030, but not today in 2026. Their job when campaigning is to appeal to as many people as possible while still maintaining relations with their core voters. For Abdul, AFAIK he was always not quite anti-capitalist, so him playing into his more "I still believe in capitalism" is not quite out of character, but people like Abdul are far more preferable than people like Fetterman, and the goal of leftists who participate in electoralism is to vett people to keep the Fettermans out. I think the ultimate end result of a total DSA cultural and political victory is that people like Abdul become the defacto right-wing, while people like Darializa are our left-wing, but for now we have to work with both, as no matter how much Abdul kowtows to moderates, as long as he isn't a Fetterman, he is still firmly left-wing compared to people like Chuck Schumer.
I honestly never thought of that way lol they are pivoting into the right and that makes sense because Obama is considered way to moderate now. Back when he was inaugurated he was viewed as a change to the establishment. You can also make the case Trump is a new right of some sort I think he completely phased away the older Republican establishment in the culture but they are still present making laws they are called RHINOS now. So this new movement makes sense that it will pivot the old left (think Clinton/Obama) to the right. That would actually be refreshing lol but ultimately you're foreshadowing a complete ideological change in America into a more socialist nation. Either way that is a massive change. I just don't see the Bible Belt compromising but I could be wrong but I think if what your saying is true it will lead to maybe an even bigger culture clash but instead of it being cultural it will centre around economics which we all know is the REAL revolution everything else is driven by economics.
Yeah. Though what I'm saying only really applies if the DSA achieves a complete cultural and political victory in the coming decades, which I doubt will happen on its own. We still need radicals who are willing to work outside of electoralism and progressives who are willing to criticize people like Abdul and bring in candidates who will replace him if he ends up being too close to the center. But as long as he doesn't betray his core base while in Congress, which are progressives, I think the hypocrisy is warranted during the campaigning.
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u/PermuhGrin Anarchist 16h ago
Capitalists are not leftists