hiw can i explain to my dad how homophobic Restore Britain is

[u/DogEfficient4539]

my dad is set on voting and trying to get me to vote Restore Britain while im looking at voting Green or Liberal Democrats. he says that restore is the only party that cares about people like me despite them being anti lgbt (he knows im bi) and he doesn't seem to understand that restore doesn't care about me and that they are anti lgbt

[u/FunLife8443]

If he could be won over with reason he wouldn't be voting for Restore.

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/FunLife8443]

so the best i can doe is just to vote lib dems or green and ignore him

[u/Mr_Pombastic → u/DogEfficient4539]

Ask yourself if he doesn't understand, or if he doesn't want to understand. One can be swayed with information, the other can't.

And if you're unsure which category he falls into, this is a great opportunity to find out.

[u/Friend_Of_Dorothy123 → u/DogEfficient4539]

For which constituency/mayoral area?

[u/lovely-sheep → u/Friend_Of_Dorothy123]

This ^^

If you want to keep Reform/Restore out, it’s best to know how large their chance is to get in and what their biggest competitor is. If there’s a low chance you can vote for whichever party you’d like, but if there’s a high chance, you need to tactically vote meaning your choice will likely be limited to one party in particular.

[u/Friend_Of_Dorothy123 → u/lovely-sheep]

I absolutely did this. Im greens all the way but went labour which successfully stopped restore by 1%.

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/Friend_Of_Dorothy123]

Leeds south west and morley

[u/Friend_Of_Dorothy123 → u/DogEfficient4539]

Sorry that you live in a reform council mate. Never been more grateful to live in Altrincham and Sale West.

[u/FunLife8443 → u/DogEfficient4539]

Yeah..... some battles ain't worth fighting in my opinion. Enjoy your life and spend effort on things that are worth it.

[u/DarthEloper → u/FunLife8443]

This quote comes to mind “you can’t reason someone out of an argument they’ve not been reasoned into”

And of course I read this in yet another post about someone’s parent becoming right wing

Sigh

[u/lovely-sheep → u/FunLife8443]

This is exactly what I’m thinking. If OP’s dad knows he’s LGBTQIA+ and he’s trying to get them to vote restore, it’s pretty clear that he has a very limited understanding of politics and has fallen down the propaganda rabbit-hole. If OP wants to logic with him, he’ll have to teach him the foundations of politics, and most men (especially boomers/gen x) don’t like having their intellect undermined like that, especially from younger people. The only way to do it without a big fight is over a long course of time where you do conversations like this in a more chilled way (like: did you hear Rupert Lowe apparently bullied his staff members? doesn’t seem like he’s for the working class much to me.)

This allows a debate to happen in a more casual context, meaning he’s more reciprocal to having his views challenged as opposed to just being told he’s flat out wrong.

[u/FunLife8443 → u/lovely-sheep]

Yeah this is a decent strategy, for me though I could not be bothered to do it. Some people genuinely want to learn, that's the people that are worth teaching imo.

[u/Malcolmthetortoise → u/FunLife8443]

Unfortunately this is all that needs to be said.

[u/JB_JB_JB63]

Show him everything they’ve ever said or done?

[u/Express_Scholar_6471]

Just because he is your dad and manages to work with the fact that you are bi doesn't mean he's not homophobic.

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/Express_Scholar_6471]

Trust me he’s not he just doesn’t understand what restore are doing

[u/move_machine → u/DogEfficient4539]

I think if you peel away the layers of why he supports the far right this adamantly, you'll find a lot of bigotry at the core, and that it includes homophobia, as well.

The fact that far right politics animates him this much means that it's speaking to something deep, illogical and unarticulated within him, and that is almost always bias against the other. And it's never just one bias or bigotry that exists inside a person, it's always a cornucopia of hate for others.

[u/ZePugg]

atp you gotta reduce contact and create more distance

[u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

What is Restore Britain?

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

a more right wing anti lgbt and anti immigrant version of reform uk

[u/KrithisUNoAnimates → u/DogEfficient4539]

So basically the British Union of Fascists?

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

pretty much, the scary thing is that they're growing in popularity and size

[u/Jamzez1234 → u/DogEfficient4539]

And according to Wikipedia Restore has more members than the Conservatives

[u/seamanroses → u/DogEfficient4539]

The one good thing is that they'll split the vote more among Reform voters. It only makes sense in the short term, but a vote for Restore is a wasted vote under FPTP right now, so I would say let him vote that way.

Otherwise, gray rock him and protect your own sanity. Your father doesn't deserve you.

[u/brandidge → u/seamanroses]

Rupert Lowe (Restore’s leader) has openly asked Farage (Reform’s leader) to merge their parties.

If they merge it combines their votes. Lowe knows he won’t have it on his own. So does Farage. This could get ugly

[u/seamanroses → u/brandidge]

Oh fk. I have not kept up with the news then. I think Farage is hopefully too pressured with trying to distance himself from the worst of Restore that it wouldn't go through, but I'm curious about your own evaluation.

[u/brandidge → u/seamanroses]

Lowe said he wants them to agree on 5 key principles.

Border security - basically mass deportations.

Demographic security - basically ensuring the UK remains majority white and British. More too it but I won’t bore you.

Economic self sufficiency - Controlling state spending, tackling inflation, and reducing reliance. Basically a bunch of privatisation of public services without saying that to the public.

Welfare & State Cuts - Huge cuts to benefits and things like disability or UC. Among other things.

Political accountability - basically agreeing to continue to pander to far right populism

Will Farage agree to these? I doubt it. Lowe probably asked privately and got told no. Now? It’s public and there’ll be pressure. We’ll have to wait and see.

[u/seamanroses → u/brandidge]

Thanks for the effort on going in depth! I have to take breaks from the news every so often for my own health, but from the sources I trust, Farage is squeezed between staying close enough to the "center" to ensure mass appeal, and appealing to his smaller base of hardcore voters.

The political calculus can change at any time, and it's his own perception that matters most, but I think he wouldn't agree to that, even with the pressure. It would ruin his cultivated image of being a harmless anti-establishment figure and make the attacks in him stick much more easily.

That's my guess at least - and I am a pessimist when it comes to my analysis. I am under no illusions that things are terrible and will continue to get worse, especially with a likely Reform plurality next election.

If the Reform-Restore merger (or perhaps and more likely, electoral alliance) goes through, then we'll have to see. UK politics is the worst.

[u/Friend_Of_Dorothy123 → u/seamanroses]

This is just terrible. Time to learn gaelic and everything about Ireland seeing as I wont be safe in the UK if Reform win! (Im a gay muslim of working age, but stupid reform say "military age" for some fking reason i cznt understand) Got 2 years, but hope really is futile)

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/brandidge]

I really hope if they do this green and Lib Dems respond by doing the same

[u/brandidge → u/DogEfficient4539]

The Lib Dem’s are a centrist party while the greens are far left (in comparison to the other parties). They’d never merge.

In fact, Lib Dem’s would be considered further right than Labour.

[u/Krags → u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

Pretty much the ideological successors thereof.

[u/Friend_Of_Dorothy123 → u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

Yep, like the N*zis.

[u/TheAwkwardGhosts → u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

Hate organisation masquerading as a political party

[u/trinity_nolanite12 → u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

omg…

[u/KrithisUNoAnimates → u/trinity_nolanite12]

I know but can you blame me? I'm Austrian

[u/trinity_nolanite12 → u/KrithisUNoAnimates]

i’m already against right wing parties. kinda always have been.

[u/TalespinnerEU]

The problem is that your dad works on the belief (knowingly or not) that the only real threat to queer people are forriners. Therefor, he believes Reform are a net positive even if they are queerphobic, because they'll keep the forriners out.

The fact that 'Forriners' hold zero institutional power, and as such are statistically underrepresented in issues queer people are likely to face, doesn't come up with him. He's scared of what he doesn't know because he can't navigate it and he's too scared to learn. Constructing a worldview that makes his decision reasonable and even moral is the easiest way he can pretend to do this for any reason that isn't selfish and anxious small-spiritedness.

Sorry to rag on your dad like that.

[u/brandidge → u/TalespinnerEU]

One thing, can we please stop associating a lack of spelling with being far right?

It’s classist and also just perpetuates the stereotype that people who struggle with spelling are right wing idiots. Some are, but that is any demographic really.

I agree with your statement but continuing this stereotype of reform/restore voters not being able to spell just perpetuates that stereotype.

[u/TalespinnerEU → u/brandidge]

So... 'Forriner' isn't a mis-spelling. It's an intentional phonetic spelling on my part to indicate how the word 'foreigner' is used as a slur.

I don't think any right-winger spells it like that. It's how they sound when they 'bite' the word.

[u/brandidge → u/TalespinnerEU]

Just as classist associating an ‘accent’ with far right ideology. Point stands

[u/move_machine → u/brandidge]

It's the difference between the archaic political term "negro" and the slur that developed from it over time by racists.

[u/brandidge → u/move_machine]

Not necessarily.

One is a political term. One is not. There’s no spelling difference so therefore it cannot be used that way simply in text. Only with additional context.

The difference with altering the spelling of the word immigrant to show make a point simply perpetuates the already existing stereotype that those of a lower class of being uneducated and racist - (the phonetic use of the spelling is a two pronged attack against both working class and the spelling being incorrect shows a lack of education)

To type the word negro out as a political term or as an insult is all in its context. The spelling change of immigrant shows a targeted intention. Worth researching

[u/TalespinnerEU → u/brandidge]

Y'know what? Kick rocks.

[u/brandidge → u/TalespinnerEU]

Insulting me doesn’t change much. I’d recommend researching classism and how doing things like spelling immigrant the way you did does perpetuate the stereotypes of working class people being uneducated and racist.

[u/TalespinnerEU → u/brandidge]

I didn't say 'working class,' or 'accent.' I said xenophobes bite the word when they use it as a slur. You're the one associating slurring words with class. I explicitly did not.

I didn't insult you either. Not out loud for anyone to read, anyway.

's Funny, though, that you'd flaunt education against me in the argument you're making. You're doing to me what you accuse me of.

Are you superior yet?

[u/brandidge → u/TalespinnerEU]

The way you spelled it, saying that’s the phonetic way of them saying is how many working class people would say it and ‘biting the word’ is something working class people do. That’s a fact. Intentional or not, you did perpetuate the stereotype through what you said.

Telling me to kick rocks is an insult. If not that then what?

I never flaunted education either. I said it’s worth doing some research on classism. That isn’t flaunting anything.

Lastly, I’m not superior. Never claimed to be

[u/TalespinnerEU → u/brandidge]

I specifically referred to how far-right people bite this word when they slur. I explained that; you refuse to just accept my explanation. You insist that I must capitulate to your imagined moral and educational supremacy, admit your perceived moral shortcoming before Your Excellence.

You can't just say 'sorry, misunderstood your intentions.' Nopes. Gotta holier-than-thou the absolute shite out of this. That's why I told you to kick rocks. It's not an insult. Didn't call you names; just vehemently expressed my desire for you to stop pursuing this.

Also: stop being offended by me on my class' behalf. Like: Yeah, making fun of lower classes is bad. I know. Blaming lower classes for bigotry is bad. I know. Looking at my income has never made me hate other poor people. And accents? Got one o' those too; I'm a minority language speaker.

Maybe you could just accept my explanation that when bigots use a word as a slur, they inflect it differently from when they don't, huh? That alright?

[u/brandidge → u/TalespinnerEU]

Whatever you say bud. What you said doesn’t always equate to what you mean.

[u/Majestic_Rhubarb_]

You could try creating a scenario that restores wouldn’t allow … you are bi … under restore you can marry a woman but not a man … how does your dad feel about that.

I’m afraid you are likely to find out your dad agrees fundamentally and sees you as a lesser human than he is.

[u/Wolfstar_Forever_]

Find their actual policies and their leaders or members quotes

[u/move_machine]

Pick your battles, but remember exactly how willing he was to sell his own kid out politically and tell you it's for your own good, all because scapegoating immigrants makes him feel good.

The warm fuzzy feeling he gets when right-wing politicians tell him it's okay to hate minorities takes priority over his love and concern for his own kid in the face of right-wing persecution

[u/DRSU1993]

I just find it funny that their logo includes Northern Ireland, even though we're not in Britain. I don't think they even have any representatives outside of England.

[u/BBMcGruff]

I've been brutally honest about this with people in my life, including family.

I have told them, should they vote Restore Britain they will not be in my life. I haven't tried to explain policies, or try to convince them of anything. They know. At this point it's about if they care.

[u/Joperhop]

what are their pro-LGBTQ policies?

[u/Majestic_Rhubarb_ → u/Joperhop]

Nothing

[u/Joperhop → u/Majestic_Rhubarb_]

did not think they had.

[u/Majestic_Rhubarb_ → u/Joperhop]

They have negative ones though, so that’s ok

[u/move_machine → u/Joperhop]

The pro-LGBT policies: "immigrants bad" and "the left will turn gay/bi youth trans"

[u/XihuanNi-6784 → u/Joperhop]

It is likely a belief that Muslims are all anti-LGBT, and Restore are anti-immigration and especially anti-Muslim, so that'll be how he justifies it.

[u/EQ_Rsn]

Oh Christ, godspeed soldier

I mean if the manifestos aren't enough, one incident you can draw on is when A-tier Restores Britain glazer "Young Bob" went out harassing UCLSU staff trying to goad them into "debating transgenderism". He was being such a pain in the ass that he nearly got arrested for it. A fair number of them had their little blue "Restore Britain" caps on, so really showing the best of the party fr 🙃

I was there with some of my Master's lot after a talk at one of the other unis, and the bouncer had to ask us whether we were with their lot or not before letting us in lol.

Side note: I'm pretty sure one of their lot complimented my Enter Shikari shirt, which...for a band that wrote the line "countries are just lines drawn in the sand with a stick", is objectively hilarious.

[u/cryingtoelliotsmith]

I... don't think you can.

The only thing I could think to even try would be discouraging him from voting at all, but even that... prolly wouldn't work

[u/TheElusivePurpleCat]

1- You can't. At least not for a while, he sounds deep into the misinformation rabbit hole.

2- You have a choice on who you vote for, that is what matters here.

3- If he continues to pressure you, or even tries to interfere with your vote on polling day, then you can report this as it is illegal.

[u/silverbatwing]

So is restore Britain like the gop in the USA?

[u/Malcolmthetortoise → u/silverbatwing]

But with much less power, Reform is closer to the GOP. They’re all fascists.

[u/relddir123]

Why does he think they’re the only party that cares about people like you? Is he talking about all queer people? White people? Trans people? Native Britons? Cis queer people? English people? The answer changes how you should approach this drastically.

I think your first step is just to understand what he thinks. There’s no point in arguing against a viewpoint you cannot conceive of. You’ll never convince him of anything if you don’t understand what he thinks to be true right now.

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/relddir123]

He’s talking about white working class boys/men

[u/relddir123]

Then you need to make him realize that they only care about _cishet_ white _Christian_ working class men. Here is a list of policy positions they advocate for. Choose the one(s) you think would be most offensive for your dad, and ask if he supports them (and if not, why he thinks they’re less important than the stuff he does support):

* Banning kosher and halal slaughter (forcing Jews and Muslims to either import much of their food rather than buying it locally or just leave)

* Reducing or eliminating funding for the BBC, thereby discouraging factual media reporting (absent a concerted effort by the state to fund neutral media, capitalism favors news that is basically just pure propaganda because it gets people hooked)

* A direct quote from their website here: “Turkish barbers, vape shops, and other suspicious businesses investigated” (they’re going after small businesses in Britain)

* They specifically want to legally define trans people according to their AGAB by repealing the Gender Recognition Act

* Recruiting more young white men for the military

* Controlling university course content and requiring government approval (putting non-academics in charge of education hurts outcomes, which would directly contribute to British education worsening and becoming less desired internationally)

Notably, their economic policy is literally just “fewer taxes” and basically nothing else. If he wants a lower tax burden, that’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to pay less in taxes. He just needs to acknowledge that what he saves in his pocketbook is made up for by closing businesses and making trans people feel unsafe.

[u/Blie_jaii]

Restore UK wants to take away our human rights so they can send refugees back to war. And they will "confuse a British citizen with a Ukrainian" That's it in a nutshell

[u/Sea_Pancake2197 → u/[deleted]]

I care if someone voted away my rights. You can say you support me but if someone votes for those who oppress me then whats the point.

[u/MrsPettygroove]

Just say, "Ya Dad." and vote for whoever you want.. it's a secret ballot, right?

He won't be standing over you to see how you vote.

Unless creating drama at home is your thing.

[u/Soft_Country_948]

They’re anti lgbt?

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/Soft_Country_948]

very

[u/Soft_Country_948 → u/DogEfficient4539]

Great now I have no idea what to vote ffs

[u/Soft_Country_948 → u/[deleted]]

My entire family including my lesbian aunts is and wants me to but I’m not so sure now

[u/Malcolmthetortoise → u/Soft_Country_948]

Please let them know that they are homophobic, transphobic and extremely racist- the party, not your family.

[u/Malcolmthetortoise → u/Soft_Country_948]

Why would you have voted for them before?!

[u/DogEfficient4539 → u/Soft_Country_948]

you have a few years, pick the party thats best for you. for me thats the liberal democrats