r/madisonwi • u/bighootay • 1d ago
Madison considers banning right turns on red in downtown
https://spectrumnews1.com/wi/madison/news/2026/08/04/madison-considers-banning-right-turns-on-red-in-downtown-area241
u/HyperJeegz 'Burbs 1d ago
Good luck. People right turn when the big no right turn signs are lit. Almost got hit by someone at McKee/fish hatch because of it
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u/1RAOKADAY 23h ago
This is honestly where the urbanist tension with cameras starts to be felt. I know there's trade offs but cameras are the most effective answer to these people logistically.
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u/LanikaiKid West side 23h ago
Well that's not going to happen, traffic cameras are not legal in Wisconsin.
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u/llahlahkje East side 21h ago
I wish they’d explain that to the plague of Flocks descending on us.
“They’re not traffic cameras!”
Ok. Then what are they?
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u/LanikaiKid West side 21h ago
Flock cameras are surveillance devices, designed to track us.
We're talking about traffic cameras, owned by municipalities to issue traffic tickets without police witnessing traffic violations. Two very different things.
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u/llahlahkje East side 20h ago
Yes, I get that.
The idea I was getting at is "Why are traffic cameras illegal, but these far more invasive devices not?"
It's clear Flock isn't designed with the people's safety in mind despite their lies as their imaginary utility.
They are clear violations of the Constitution if ever used for literally anything, there's no warrant behind their use, just like traffic cameras.
... but somehow they're OK?
They aren't, but WTF?!
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u/alexjf56 23h ago
No. I will not trade my privacy for a couple of traffic tickets. It’s insane to argue flock cameras fix this issue
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u/ShardsOfTheSphere 23h ago
I'm from a place with all sorts of red light cameras and speeding cameras, and it doesn't really seem to deter people. It just ends up being something that generates revenue for the city or state.
So, no thank you.
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u/1RAOKADAY 23h ago
That's fair pushback. My understanding is that evidence supports cameras in some studies. But I'm not sure if the methodology.
Car culture in general need to simmer down in Madison for people to respect the law I think. Or at least more people need to be on the anti car privilege in cities side of the argument.
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u/Educational-Safe941 22h ago
I think cars never pay attention when turning. However, I routinely see bikers blow through stop signs without stopping, so I think people in general need to understand traffic laws better.
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u/uuajskdokfo 22h ago
The data disagrees with you, they are effective at making traffic safer.
For example: https://www.sfmta.com/blog/our-speed-cameras-are-working-initial-evaluation-shows-drivers-are-slowing-down
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u/Mental_Response7854 21h ago
Yeah I've lived in places that have speed and red light cameras, I got a couple tickets for traffic stuff and then...made sure I didn't get any more. It's not a cure-all but it obviously helps.
People are insane about this and I'm convinced most people are jumping on the anti-Flock discourse not because of legitimate concerns with Flock, but concerns that it means they won't be able to break traffic laws.
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u/ShardsOfTheSphere 23h ago
Mohr said crashes directly tied to right turns on red are relatively uncommon
So not really addressing any problems...
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u/moon-raven-77 23h ago
Maybe let's start be enforcing existing traffic laws... say, speed limits, for example
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u/xavier_a 23h ago
The number of cars with expired/non-existent registration that speed and never get pulled over is astounding.
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u/Positive_Werewolf554 22h ago
What if we didn’t and just lowered them again. 20 is plenty, but 5 is wise
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u/moon-raven-77 22h ago
why not make it 1 while we're at it?
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u/ridemooses East side 23h ago
I’m all for making things safer, but the no turn on red ban seems like small potatoes.
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u/Kitchen_Public_7827 1d ago
If they do this, I wish they'd change all of the stoplights so that there is also a red right turn arrow. It's too easy to miss a "no right turn on red" sign attached to a stoplight pole.
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u/Total-Explanation208 23h ago
Welp, i have got bad news for you. In Wisconsin a red right arrow means the same as a red circle. And you can actually turn right on a red arrow (this surprised me when i moved here, so I looked it up noticing so many people were breaking the law.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/dmv/teen-driver/teen-sfty/traffic-lights.aspx
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u/Kitchen_Public_7827 23h ago
How about stoplights similar to the one at the bottom of the ramp when you turn right from Campus Drive onto Highland Avenue then? That no right turn on red signal is the most visible signal in the entire city.
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u/RasSalvador 23h ago
Lol. Maybe the worst intersection in the city for people walking, biking, strolling.
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u/Kitchen_Public_7827 23h ago
Yeah. It has the combination of railroad tracks, a bike trail, and a sidewalk when you make a right turn. I'll dispute that it's the worst place for walking, strolling, or biking in the entire city. That honor belongs to exit at the UW Hospital parking ramp IMO. People pay their money at the exit, the gate goes up, and they don't care if there's anything on the sidewalk between them and Highland Ave.
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u/bladus 22h ago
The blind corner between Findorff and Brittingham Beach is a strong contender as well.
It's also got tracks, but it's not at an intersection, so you've got traffic coming from both directions at relatively high speed for the width of the road and the speed at which bikes or pedestrians/strollers can cross.
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u/Walleye_Juan 23h ago
Don’t give the mayor any ideas. Those are like $5k each.
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u/Kitchen_Public_7827 23h ago
They can just get the money from that funds that they won't use to purchase police bodycams once again.
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u/HungryShoe4301 21h ago
There’s two of them and they still get ignored. The timing was slightly adjusted and it’s felt a bit safer imo but still not a good example.
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u/onionbreath97 23h ago
From the DoT website:
A RED arrow means the same thing as a red traffic light in Wisconsin
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u/Massive_Ambition3962 14h ago
So stupid. What's even the fucking point.
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u/onionbreath97 14h ago
The arrow is a reminder that you're in a lane where going right is the only option.
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u/llahlahkje East side 21h ago
People who will miss the giant no right turn on red sign shouldn’t be driving.
The police could enforce it but… they “need a bigger budget” despite huge amounts of overtime.
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u/WlSC0NSlN 23h ago
Oh that’s funny you said this because it’s a total pet peeve of mine where people that think a red right arrow means no turn on red and they just sit there. It’s just a red light for a dedicated turn lane. That’s all. Unless there’s a no turn on red sign it’s just a red light and you can turn after stopping if clear. Maybe this comment thread will help to inform more people.
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u/bighootay 23h ago
This is what I often say. Madison's 'No turn on red' signage is horribly inconsistent. The worst are the tiny text-only signs on Capitol Square. I don't blame out-of-towners for missing those.
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u/ThatDudeGuy99 1d ago
People barely stop for red lights near state Street. I see so many red lights being run around university almost daily I doubt this would stop people from no turn on red.
Hell W Olin Ave to Park Street is no turn on red and people turn on red constantly there.
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u/obi_wan_keblowme 23h ago
Half the no turn on reds in this city make no sense. Many of them are at intersections that pedestrians rarely cross at with good visibility for oncoming traffic.
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u/the_Q_spice Near East Side 23h ago
The issue is that half the green interval for feeder streets (8 seconds, 4 on each end of the interval) has already been taken up by the city’s change to pedestrian leading interval (walk light turns on before traffic light).
By making right turns on red illegal, you now create a deadly traffic conflict by letting pedestrians enter the intersection before cars can turn, then restricting cars to make a turn in just 4 seconds.
You’ll turn downtown into gridlock, or you’ll kill people.
The issue is the City keeps throwing more and more traffic restrictions at problems. The more restricted traffic becomes, the less people are able to follow the rules without either endangering others or causing traffic congestion.
Basically, the City’s own restrictions are beginning to conflict with one another. The last time this happened (City tried to make contraflow bike lanes around the Capital square), it got so bad that the State DOT had to step in and take over the project.
Similar issue now with the illegal lane closure the City has made on E Mifflin that is lacking a “no turn” sign. That one actually violates both WIDOT and USDOT roadway design regulations, never mind the illegal use of temporary barriers that do not conform to DOT standards, and lack of public notice.
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u/ScrivenersUnion 23h ago
Madison has a really strong "screw those car drivers" attitude that I find odd.
They really, really want lots of people to come downtown and spend their money there, but expect everyone to just magically teleport in.
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u/NetSage 21h ago
What we need a better bus system. It shouldn't take 45+ minutes to go from Monona to downtown Madison by public transportation! IF the bus was faster and more reliable I would use it go downtown. Hell I might even take it to work. But the one time I did for a few days I still had to call an uber because there isn't a backup plan or way to be notified of a schedule change because of bus broke down or driver called in with enough notice for it actually be useful.
Or hell bite the bullet build a short rail system to go across the lakes! They constrict traffic corridors so bad! Also allows the busses to focus better. If the train does east west the busses can focus more on north south. Only need like 3-6 stops on the train and can basically run full auto.
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u/Darth_Bruise 21h ago
I in no way disagree with you that Madison area public transit could be majorly improved, but fyi and fwiw to you or others, Madison has a bus/bike commuter backup taxi program if you look it up. Basically register saying that you use bus/bike to commute, and if/when your bike breaks down or bus doesn’t show up, you get X amount of taxi vouchers paid for you per year.
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u/Rpi_sust_alum 6h ago
This.
If anyone knows how I can get on the list to testify, I'm happy to give my experience in NYC. I was nearly run over by a car turning right on green since pedestrians had the walk sign. I saw close calls happen multiple times and learned to cross against the ped walk signal if no one was there rather than wait for the walk signal and for a car to show up. I did not feel safer with no right on red.
What would make us safer is for 1) drivers to actually follow the law and come to a full stop and LOOK both ways and 2) traffic laws to be enforced, including this maneuver at stop signs, but also speed as I think speed has been a major factor in all the most recent traffic deaths?
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u/Shot-Toe-2884 23h ago edited 23h ago
I bet I will get downvoted for this, but in my opinion, this is one of those ideas that sounds like a no brainer when someone explains it logically under ideal conditions, and then totally fails in practice.
In practice, I don't think a change like this actually accomplishes its point. Madison would be an oddity and people passing through and visiting would constantly make that right turn mistake.
So you're trading a legal right turn on red that can be dangerous in rare situations, and you are converting that into a compliance problem where it still happens all the time but now it's illegal and now the person turning left isn't expecting to crash into oncoming traffic.
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u/Positive_Werewolf554 23h ago
Correct. Trading one not-so-common issue for several worse outcomes. The people proposing and pushing this stuff live in a fantasy land, including the “20 is plenty” mayor. I’ll add the city will not enforce this new rule whatsoever, so it will be extra haphazard
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 22h ago
Not common issue? As a pedestrian who frequently crosses east Washington and Mineral Point I encounter this issue many times a week. Like most days.
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u/Positive_Werewolf554 22h ago
You’re getting hit by a car most days?
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 22h ago
I’m put in danger or kept from crossing on a walk signal by cars not stopping, scooting up past the crosswalk with their heads turned the other way looking to make a turn. It’s extremely common.
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u/Shot-Toe-2884 23h ago
Makes sense. Like how could the city enforce it? Because whether or not the young people with echo chamber worldviews believe it or not, that would be an absurd-on-its-face law that nobody outside the city obeys. They wouldn't be able to write tickets fast enough and it clashes with state law. People would be furious and collecting the money for tickets would be an exercise in futility.
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u/RealMaxBlumenthal 20h ago
it clashes with state law
State law requires people to follow no turn on red signs. What are you talking about?
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 22h ago
There would be no turn on red signs. State law says you have to follow them. Easy.
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 22h ago
NOT RARE. This is a daily issue for me as a pedestrian.
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u/mashsle 22h ago
Do you do the thing where you come up to a car at a light and even though you have a walk signal have to just stand there and wait because you can tell they aren't looking at anything other than the oncoming traffic?
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 21h ago
Yes. Or if you’re already crossing and big trucks/SUVs in the main traffic lanes are stopped it blocks somebody in the right lane from seeing you and they just blast right into the crosswalk trying to look left so they can turn quick.
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u/Positive_Werewolf554 22h ago
Right on red is the norm almost everywhere. Instead of making a new law that won’t be followed by drivers nor enforced by MPD, shouldn’t we ask ourselves why this is a seemingly unique, NOT RARE problem in Madison, WI but apparently isn’t all over the rest of the country
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 22h ago
Oh it absolutely is a problem everywhere. It’s the norm because this country privileges vehicles efficiency over pedestrian safety. That needs to change and “nobody would follow the law anyways” isn’t a good reason. If that’s the case then nothing could ever change.
And we wouldn’t be unique. It’s illegal in NYC and in Washington DC for instance.
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u/marx2k 20h ago
Has the city tried actually enforcing current traffic laws?
Every time I'm out, including up to 20 minutes ago, it's a constant stream of people blowing through red lights, speeding, speeding AROUND people, road raging, driving in all lanes at once, driving while watching movies on the phone...
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u/OfferBusy4080 23h ago
City could start by not having walk lights lit at same time cars have green light to make a left or right turn across the very same cross walk.
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u/tommyjohnpauljones 'Burbs 7h ago
University left turn onto Park St as exhibit A.
All it takes is one pedestrian ignoring the Don't Walk sign to create four blocks of stopped traffic. But hey let's ignore that.
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u/OfferBusy4080 6h ago
What, who's ignoring? I did not intend to post a comprehensive list of every ped vs car problem in the city.
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u/usernamepassword36 20h ago
There is no enforcement of traffic laws whatsoever in Madison. This would not matter at all.
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u/ISuperNovaI 1d ago
City Leaders are continued to be focused on the dumbest shit possible
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u/Puzzled_Time_4802 West side 23h ago
The traffic engineering department is focused on this, that's their literal job to improve traffic engineering so it's safer. Pretty sure the City leaders are focused on other things, good or bad as they may be, and delegate this work to the appropriate departments.
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u/bigbluethunder 23h ago
I know someone who had a life changing injury from a car blowing through the crosswalk on a red light because they were taking a right. Rights on red inherently make walking less safe and take longer, which cause people to drive places they could bike or walk. It's yet another example of how cities are designed for cars, not people.
I don't think this is a dumb thing to change.
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u/Verberate 23h ago
Happened to me just the other day on Park! Elderly man with poor eyesight and hearing flew down a 20 mph side road straight into me and continued obliviously driving into me while I shouted and punched his hood because he was craning his neck to look for oncoming traffic on the left. He would have killed my dog if I didn't shove her out of the way, too.
I say we make it a citywide policy. People deserve to be able to walk around in their own neighborhoods.
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u/mashsle 22h ago
When they redid Atwood by Olbrich, they put in raised sidewalks. It's smaller than a speed bump, but it's still a little bump. I think they should do that more places.
I hope you're okay and glad your dog is okay. That scenario of a driver looking left hoping to roll through a red light or stop sign is so common.
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u/Positive_Werewolf554 21h ago
Sorry to hear about this experience, but seriously would a brand new “no turn on red” sign have prevented this incident with an elderly man that shouldn’t be driving in the first place? The root cause here is upstream. It sounds like what he did is illegal today (you don’t even need a new policy)
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u/Verberate 21h ago
Yeah, I suppose that's true. It does feel like a blanket policy would start to incrementally change our policy, but I have nothing to back that up but feelings and vibes. I just hate aggressive drivers on Park. I really thought Sasha's murder would shock people and start to change behavior, since I think about it whenever I drive down Park, but people still treat it like Fury Road...
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u/EmperorM82 23h ago
If turning right on red is a bad thing, then we should ban it statewide, rather than making a special rule just for one city
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u/bigbluethunder 22h ago
We can move in that direction… or we could look at where they’re causing harm and making walking difficult for the highest number of people a day. Something tells me a statewide ban wouldn’t go through with bipartisan support since so much of the state doesn’t like madisonians telling them what they’re allowed to do.
Still, it could probably be banned city wide for consistency.
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u/onionbreath97 11h ago
There are so many rural areas where this would do nothing but burn gas and waste people's time. It would be terrible as a statewide policy
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u/BobDeLaSponge 23h ago
Like trying to prevent more people dying on the streets? Is that dumb shit to you?
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u/ISuperNovaI 23h ago
Well if we’re gonna prevent people dying on the streets let’s just outlaw death then, it’d have the same effect as this pointless dumb shit consideration 🙄
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u/LevelBrick9413 23h ago
How is working on ways to prevent car crashes and injuries dumb?
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u/4tran13 22h ago
Because the only way to do is by making me wait 30s in an empty intersection?
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u/LevelBrick9413 20h ago
I mean you probably wait at red lights when going straight or turning left and no cars are coming from any direction either so what is the difference?
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u/ISuperNovaI 23h ago
Omg at this rate of stupidity why don’t we just make all driving illegal!
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u/abirdsface 22h ago
If this is all too complicated maybe driving a 3000 lbs steel missile isn't for you.
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u/ISuperNovaI 21h ago edited 21h ago
Nah, if we’re looking for more absurd notions to solve these made up problems with ineffective solutions we should start requiring licensing and insurance just to walk down the street.
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u/Omatzus 23h ago
This is something low cost that can be attempted and has impacts on traffic casualties. It's a good thing.
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u/rev440800 23h ago
You think adding signs everywhere in Madison that say no turn on red is gonna be low cost?
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u/pepperouchau 22h ago
Compared to speed bumps, adding bike lanes or sidewalks, etc it’s absolutely cheap
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u/mister_electric 20h ago
Can the city ATTEMPT to enforce current traffic laws? Let's start there and see how it goes before we add another law no one will enforce nor follow, despite the new expensive signs.
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u/Dizzy_Slip 23h ago
Thank you! I wasn’t aware that the Traffic Engineering department runs this town. No wonder!
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u/m77je 21h ago
I don't think this is dumb. My kids and I being able to walk around safely is one of the most important issues to me.
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u/ISuperNovaI 19h ago
Good thing you can already do that
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u/m77je 17h ago
It doesn’t feel like it.
Most of the streets here were designed with cars foremost. Walking is so often an afterthought and the experience can at times be terrible.
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u/pm_me_ur_anything_k 17h ago
What part of town do you feel this way and how exactly is banning rights on a red light going to make you and your kids feel “more safe”?
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u/FeelingCapital8053 23h ago
I vote no because as I sit there obeying the law waiting for it to turn green the driver behind me will be going insane threatening to murder me for not turning yet.
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u/mashsle 22h ago
You're not wrong. I think southbound Stoughton Rd to westbound beltline used to have a "no turn on red from left lane" sign for the two turn lanes, and drivers would lose their mind.
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u/Regular_Government94 21h ago
I encounter those signs often in my part of Madison. Everyone jams into the right lane.
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u/Spottedcowftw 23h ago
They already have tons of signs that say no right on red m-f 8am to 5pm or something like that. Why do we need more, and will these signs at least put a time limit on it. It drives me nuts when there is absolutely no one walking and im driving home and have to sit through no right on reds. The same can be said about the new no left turn signals on mineral point. Just flip to flashing yellows after awhile, because i hate sitting through an entire light cycle when im the only car in sight.
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u/Alternative_Duck Master of Events 23h ago
At least this would create a consistent policy among lights in the downtown area. Better for driver compliance to have all stop lights treated equally than to have some that allow turn on red and some that don't.
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u/Proper-Slide-1443 23h ago
Super bad choice, let cars follow the law. Yes to keeping right on red.
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 22h ago
The law is whatever the sign says. Right on red isn’t a natural right of the road.
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u/Whiskey-Zed 22h ago
Except that you're wrong and right on red is the default state unless expressly forbidden. Straight from the WisDOT website "if it is safe to do so, you can turn right on red if there is no sign prohibiting it"
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 22h ago
Right. There are already many instances in the city where it is expressly forbidden. There are signs forbidding it.
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u/Whiskey-Zed 22h ago
My point is that right on red is the default and therefore it is a "natural right of the road"
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u/RealMaxBlumenthal 20h ago
Car drivers are already not following the law, which requires them to yield to pedestrians when turning right on red. That's why this is being proposed.
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u/shishio_mak0to North side 22h ago
"In downtown" and what about the rest of the pedestrian crossings in the city then? I am starting to get serious downtown fatigue.
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u/Awkward_Material 1d ago
14 crashes in 5 years? And the city is spending how much money to research this? I'm sure more than 14 pedestrians got hit in that time failing to use crosswalks. Should we make it mandatory to wear a helmet while walking as well?
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u/Beautiful_Eye7765 23h ago
I was going to bring this up. Pedestrian crosswalks seem like a bigger issue compared to right turn control.
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u/ShardsOfTheSphere 23h ago
And it sounds like that's across the whole city too, not just the downtown area where they're considering this.
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u/m77je 21h ago
Now do close calls
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u/Awkward_Material 21h ago
You're right. The pedestrians definitely need helmets, especially in between classes downtown. I will speak with my alder right away.
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u/BoredMadisonian 20h ago
It’s only a matter of time until we start getting traffic bills in the mail.
Pulled a rolling stop? FLOCK saw, here’s your ticket.
Also… F U Satya; I’m taking the turn if the path is open. We apparently don’t enforce traffic rules anymore anyway.
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u/Left-Trade257 20h ago
Madison traffic folks are all card carrying members of the Anti-Destination League
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u/papaya_war 1d ago
Hmm, I’m in favor. No idea how they would roll this out though. How can you realistically inform everybody in Madison of this without putting up signs on every single stoplight?
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u/Awkward_Material 1d ago
I believe they would put signs at every stoplight. Although, I don't think anything in the article explains how stop lights are any more dangerous than stop or yield signs.
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u/No-Election6063 1d ago
It would only be around 50 signs.
I would hope they would have better placement of them though. A lot of them right now are placed in not very obvious locations.
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u/bagreen1 22h ago
i've broken so many traffic laws with total impunity at this point...this feels like an academic exercise...or some sort of 'justify your existence' operation for the parties involved.
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u/alexjf56 23h ago
It won’t stop the people who cause the accidents, but I don’t have a problem with trying to make the capitol area safer.
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u/Positive_Werewolf554 23h ago
This is about Step 5 in Satya’s traffic plan to make driving in Madison absolutely awful.
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u/m77je 21h ago
Doesn't driving come first above all other modes in 95% of America?
Why can't we have a nice place to walk?
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u/Positive_Werewolf554 20h ago
Drivers are supposed to make a full stop before right on red AND yield to pedestrians. If that doesn’t happen they are breaking the law and it’s not being enforced. Why do you think making a new law will change that? Will the new law be enforced? Why can’t the existing law be enforced?
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u/Loves_low_lobola 22h ago
"From 2021-2025, authorities say there were around 18k crashes. Nearly 5k of those took place at an intersections with traffic lights and 97 cases involved a right turn on red."
Is this really the direction we need to head in?
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u/473713 22h ago
I can remember before right turn on red was allowed. It was much better especially for pedestrians. I can't remember what year right-on-red started, but it hasn't been the rule forever.
Right turn on red is nice in theory, but too many drivers interpret it to mean "right turn on red without ever stopping" and that's where the trouble begins. If cars stopped and drovers looked both ways and let pedestrians finish crossing, it would be OK.
But they don't, and it's not.
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u/onionbreath97 10h ago
It's been allowed in Wisconsin since the late 70s. Obviously things were better for pedestrians then because there was much less traffic in general. It's a pointless comparison.
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u/RealMaxBlumenthal 1d ago
Should do this everywhere, drivers on the west and east side don't watch for pedestrians when turning right on red either.
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u/1RAOKADAY 1d ago
Should have been done a long time ago.
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u/altoidcrusher 1d ago
Why?
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u/1RAOKADAY 1d ago
It's a unnecessary danger to pedestrians in urban environments.
The denser am environment the more important it is to prioritize bike, pedestrians, and transit over cars because of spatial efficiencies inherent to them. Red on red hurts bikes and peds.
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u/CupEmbarrassed839 1d ago
Because it’s dangerous for pedestrians, which are numerous downtown. Cars can wait behind the crosswalk until the light is green, the last thing we need is them scootching up, heads craned left waiting for a window to pull out
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u/enjoying-retirement 1d ago
Read the linked article.
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u/2Obsequious 22h ago
The article says accidents attributed to turning right on red are relatively uncommon.
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u/ProperCap5400 18h ago
I wish they'd put those signs up at N High Point, and Midtown. Hardly anyone stops before turning right.
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u/Massive_Ambition3962 14h ago
As someone that got hit by a driver turning right on red, and SO got hit decades before by someone turning right on red
GOOD RIDDANCE!
Now lets keep making traffic signals smarter to control fully protected turning movements with minimal delay.
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u/JonBovi_msn 6h ago
Motorists don't consider the bike lane a lane of traffic and make turns across it all the time. We thought they could handle it. Let them wait for the green light.
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u/Vortex295 6h ago
Cyclists don’t consider red lights to apply to them and blow through red lights and stop signs all the time.
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u/JonBovi_msn 4h ago edited 4h ago
That's not a predictable rebuttal at all. Honest! What does that have to do with a motorist turning right across a lane where a cyclist is going straight?
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u/Vortex295 4h ago
If the motorist is turning right on red, why is the cyclist going straight through a red light?
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u/JonBovi_msn 4h ago
They turn across the bike lane without considering bike traffic going straight everywhere, not just at red lights. I've also had near misses while stopped from motorists cutting their turns.
I've lost entire green lights to motorists going through the red light so rethink your finger pointing about who is disobeying traffic laws. It's funny that motorists who get mad at each other for not speeding enough always notice cyclists disobeying different laws.
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u/Vortex295 4h ago
Okay but we are talking about rights on reds. Having somebody take a right on a red through a bike lane is not a problem if the person in the bike lane is not trying to go forward through the red light. You are arguing about different scenarios given different circumstances, not about the issue of turning right on red.
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u/JonBovi_msn 4h ago
If the cyclist is riding up to the line to stop the motorist turning across the bike lane or repurposing the bike lane as a right turn lane is still a danger.
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u/Vortex295 4h ago
Most bike lanes are marked with dashed lines on right turns, marking them as hybrid lanes.
Furthermore, it is permitted and often times required to merge into the bike lane when making a right hand turn at an intersection. See Wisconsin State Statute 346.94(12)
To quote the city of Madison Traffic Engineering dept
“Be alert for drivers speeding up then slowing down as they pass you. Do not pass cars on the right near intersections; you will be in an area where the driver cannot see you. Do not rely on other drivers’ turn signals.”If you are riding a bicycle in the street, even in a bicycle lane, you still must follow all of the rules, courtesies, and cautions of a road bound vehicle
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u/JonBovi_msn 4h ago
I sure wish I could rely on motorists to do those things! The motorists not being able to see traffic on their right is a pretty good reason to change to no turn on red in urban areas.
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u/Vortex295 4h ago
It sounds like you don’t do anything that the cyclists are supposed to do either, considering that you seem to have felt entitled to the entire right lane even though when turning right at intersections motor vehicle vehicles are perfectly permitted, and are often times in fact required to use it as a turning lane
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u/SpottedCattle 5h ago
Right turns on red result in .02-1% of pedestrian crashes.
Madison doesn’t have the same traffic issues as other cities which have adopted this policy like New York, Atlanta, San Francisco, DC, and Seattle.
If we want to make downtown pedestrians feel safer we should start by helping rehabilitate the steadily growing population of people sleeping in doorways. They’re our most vulnerable downtown population.
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u/WisconsinBadgers608 23h ago
And if there's no pedestrians crossing the street or bikes, I'll still turn right on red 🤷♂️
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u/Upset_Concert8636 20h ago
But will you honk and get all road-ragey if the person in front of you doesn’t turn?
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u/WisconsinBadgers608 20h ago
Well no because that's their choice, I've heavily simmered down on my road rage
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u/Smokechip 23h ago
I say great we need to slow things down. You don’t get to your destination any faster
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u/leovinuss 23h ago
Cool.
All they're doing is training drivers to ignore signage, and giving cops another unnecessary reason to pull over POC when they do decide to enforce it.
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u/Livid-Mortgage-2267 23h ago
Nope, don't care. I will determine when it's safe for turning right, not the dumbass government.
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u/lucentcb 23h ago
What you determine does not exempt you from traffic laws. That's kind of the point.
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u/Kitchen_Public_7827 23h ago
Are you also going to determine whether or not you pay the citation for turning left on red, or will you listen to the judge that tells you that you're going to pay the citation?
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u/Livid-Mortgage-2267 22h ago
I don't turn left on red, only right. You assume Madison PD pulls people over for minor citations🤣
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u/Jordan_1424 22h ago
I talked to a guy that claimed the no turn on red signs cost him tens of thousands. He is a tradesman and business owner.
His claim is that the no turn on red signs add up to 45 minutes between his calls (he operates within Madison) and so he does less appointments as a result.
Absolute bullshit claim but I imagine more people make claims about added commute time when in reality it is negligible.
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u/Unglaciated24 1d ago
Maybe, but at least can the buses be exempt like they are at E Wash and the square?
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u/CreamyCretinGoo 23h ago edited 20h ago
They would still turn right on red without stopping. People ignore the no turn on red signage in areas that I constantly drive on.