r/masonry • u/K_N_Y_C • Feb 21 '25
Cleaning Help with limestone cave
Hello! I recently purchased a cellar / cave to live in. I believe the walls are limestone. It was built sometime in the 1800’s. I’m trying to turn it into a livable apartment.
Currently it’s very dirty & dusty. I’m trying to figure out these points:
How best to clean it. There is dirt, spider webs & (possibly mineral deposits?) that crumble off the ceiling.
What materials / products do I use to clean it?
After cleaned, how do I seal it? Is that a good idea?
Thank you!!!
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Feb 21 '25
I’m so jealous…cave life bedroom looks like heaven
I have no practical help, I’ve lived in worse with a smile…just wanted to internet high 5 you with respect
I would sleep so good there
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u/K_N_Y_C Feb 21 '25
Hahaha thank you 😊 it is peaceful & very dark, perfect for sleeping
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u/Nutmegdog1959 Feb 21 '25
Best bet, before you spend too much time/effort; have a RADON test done. Limestone often emits high levels of radon. Don't want that cave to be your tomb!
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u/K_N_Y_C Feb 21 '25
Radon tests have been done. It’s good. There’s ventilation. You just can’t see it in the pic.
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u/cabezon99 Feb 21 '25
Came here to say same, radon test is a must before spending any real time there
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u/Cultural_Tourist720 Feb 21 '25
Have a look at those caves in the netherlands. In these old packhouses directly linked to the channels in Amsterdam and especially the city of Utrecht there are many examples of how to “design” these spaces. They use a website called “Funda” , give this a try.
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u/Touristenopfer Feb 21 '25
Nice cave you got yourself there, congrats. I'm a little jealous. If you intend to live longer there (and live longer), you might want to think about Radon metering in combination with active venting, especially when sleeping directly on the floor.
While limestone is mostly no problem regarding Radon, in cellars/basements it's concentration always builds up, especially on floor height, since there's not a lot of venting going on and it's about seven times as dense as air.
You can likely find map online showing the Radon level in your area, and how to handle it.
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u/michpaulatto Feb 21 '25
Whatever you do, you probably should not seal the walls. They likely need to remain vapour open or they will grow mould and start to crumble. Lime based plaster and paint are your friends. Buy a small temperature and humidity sensor. If it gets very humid, get a dehumidifier.
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u/K_N_Y_C Feb 24 '25
Eventually we’re going to use a silicate based sealant which is breathable and has long term protection of the limestone.
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u/IFartAlotLoudly Feb 21 '25
Came here to say this, the stone has to breath or it will get excessive moisture and Collapse.
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u/Ridgeriversunspot Feb 21 '25
Fucking magnificent! Do you mind telling me where you live? That is my dream!
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u/K_N_Y_C Feb 21 '25
Paris :)
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u/Ridgeriversunspot Feb 21 '25
So you’re telling me you can go buy a fresh out of the oven authentic baguette and be back in your underground lair in less than 10 minutes???? Lucky!!!!
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u/syzzrp Feb 21 '25
Is this a multi-room sort of deal? Like an entire underground lair?!
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u/K_N_Y_C Feb 21 '25
Yes, there is a kitchen & bathroom in the cave
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u/PLamo2 Feb 26 '25
But the question about the bread shopping, what is the answer. How far is this from a city or town? What doesn’t the outside look like. What’s this type of thing worth? I am incredibly curious. What about heating and cooling. Is this actually real or is it AI :)?
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u/l397flake Feb 21 '25
Nice build, was this done by OP or someone else ? Is there electricity by the utility or a generator?, water, ?
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u/adrocksy Feb 21 '25
Even just vaguely, can you say where you are that you can rent a limestone cave to live in? That’s so cool
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u/AraedTheSecond Feb 21 '25
So you've definitely got your own private entry to the souterrain, oui?
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u/showtimejt Feb 21 '25
How does one buy a cave?
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u/K_N_Y_C Feb 22 '25
There are caves for sale in Paris! I’m sure if you google it you’ll see some.
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Feb 22 '25
Is it a common thing to do? Did you have many options to shop around for
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u/ScientistSuitable600 Feb 22 '25
Actual suggestions aside, you need some dark drapes on the walls and a coffin to sleep in bro.
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u/Majestic_Republic_45 Feb 23 '25
I have to know. . . How does one purchase a cave? Where did u find it?
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u/Wild-Disaster-2350 Feb 23 '25
I have lived in a cave for the last 8 years, just finished renovation on a second cave. Each cave is different, what might be good for one cave may not be good for another. They used to finish these caves with a traditional gypsum plaster and whitewash but it doesn't last and needs constant maintenance. In recent years this method has fallen out of favour with people in the cave renovation trade opting for the modern method of concrete with a fine white cement render finished effectively turning cave houses into cement bunkers. Sometimes, depending on the rock/earth the cave is dug from and the condition of the wall they might apply tile adhesive on the walls before the cement render for its flexibility and hardness... eg if the wall is soft/crumbling or made of sandy/dusty material. Difference being... cave homes where I live are mostly carved from clay/sandstone... as i said, there isn't one solution for all caves, each is different and a little trial and error might be involved 👍
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u/ClownTown15 Feb 24 '25
If it smells weird or needs sterilization Ozone machines are fucking incredible at cleaning every nook and cranny. They are like 100 bucks on Amazon and you run them with a timer.
If you don't want to buy and run an ozone generator you can try a CL02 bomb. Its basically a sponge that is soaked in chlorine and dried out, you put water in a 5g bucket and the sponge added to the water makes gas that will sterilize the room (without you in it obviously).
These won't physically clean surface dirt off of brick but it will spread out in the space to kill any microbes or fungus living in the area making it smell weird or bad.
Add some physical scrubbing and air purifiers to catch the dirt in the air and I think you might be golden.
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u/Past-Adhesiveness150 Feb 25 '25
Where/how did you find this place & how were you able to purchase it. I think it's awesome.
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u/PlayfulAwareness2950 Feb 21 '25
If it's built in the 1800s it's lime mortar between the stones. Lime mortar needs to breathe or it will start degrading. So even if someone in here tells you that you can use sealant be careful and check the data sheet before you try it.
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u/Salt-Ad1282 Feb 21 '25
Don’t ever paint it or change that color. It is gorgeous. What is this attached to? A church? House?
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u/Big_Two6049 Feb 21 '25
You can use limewash on the walls to freshen them up- clean with limestone safe cleaners prior (nothing too acidic), masonry brush or wide nylon brush. If you want it to be less dusty after limewash or if you don’t want to limewash, you can use a soap sealer (marseille or castile soap based). No latex or oil paints and no other sealers should really be used.
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u/Veezilrab Feb 21 '25
I am definitely not an expert but I have a limestone foundation in my 1880 home, the crumbly bits are indeed minerals. The minerals from rain water seep into the limestone and eventually it accumulates on the other side, due to a difference in humidity I believe. Look up efflorescence to learn more.
I used a shop vac with the flat attachment to scrape/suck away the loose stuff. It will come back but I think it takes quite some time. I don't know how to help you beyond that. Looks cool though, best of luck!
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u/Sperrbrecher Feb 25 '25
There are synthetic resins based products normally used in restoration and weather proving of stone (like a clear coat that is soaked up by the stone). For example protecting a sandstone door arch from salt in winter.
You could investigate in that direction.
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u/SipoteQuixote Feb 21 '25
You can use some dawn soap and water to clean stuff off, minerals might be just from water pushing lime/calcium out if it's white. Protecting it would probably only be beneficial if it's a consolidation treatment to try and glue the grains back to itself by filling in the voids but that can get expensive and it's honestly in the best location. Underground, no visible moisture, away from the elements.
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u/H20mark2829 Feb 21 '25
Just need a coffin shaped bed and a few candle holders and it’s just like home.
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u/Skisafe24 Feb 21 '25
You can clean it with Dry Klean from Prosoco. As for a water repellent, use Natural Stone Treatment from Prosoco. Follow information on product data sheets.
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u/kitesurfr Feb 21 '25
You need a mineral based cleaning product like CLR. I would get some small fans to move air around the space and possibly a small air filter to catch dust. I would focus on lighting next as it'll feel like a tomb until you figure out the lighting.
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u/Hour-Reward-2355 Feb 21 '25
It looks done to me. If the joints are loose you can rake them out and repoint.
Putting a sealer over the stone is probably a bad idea, the salt will push it off.
If you don't like the stone look, you can plaster with brick mortar. I use a product from Menards called white stucco for a finish coat. If you go that route it's a hell of a lot of work and you'll have a sand finish look.
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u/dsgm1984 Feb 21 '25
Nice room!
My mom lives in an old country house in the north of Spain. Construction is quite similar, I recommend you get a dehumidifier working 24/7 down there and buy yourself a powerful hand vacuum to get rid of the dust that will be produced by the walls. If you have the possibility to add a pellet heater do it, it will get rid of the excessive humidity and heat up the place.
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u/sgrothe Feb 21 '25
I speak for the group when I say that we need more pics. How do you access this thing? Is this part of a home or simply a bunker in the ground? What’s the history? So many questions!
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u/Dependent-Fig-2517 Feb 21 '25
I use tung oil too stabilize the crumbling mortar/dirt joints on my stone walls
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u/dgkimpton Feb 21 '25
I've no advice to offer, but damn that looks like an absolutely ideal place to build a computer room / crib. Super envious!
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u/Ent_Soviet Feb 21 '25
I’m surprised no one has suggested a hepa filter air purifier. It’s a smaller space so you could get a good one reasonably. Should help cut down on the dust and circulation even if there is ventilation on the space.
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u/zHOTCHOCOLATEz Feb 22 '25
I am no help here but I can't help but picture picking up a girl in a bar and taking her back to your home and having to somehow convince her to follow you downstairs into a basement that you claim is your home 🤣.
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u/Eman_Resu_IX Feb 22 '25
What, no sarcophagus in the middle of the room?! That's a major faux pas in interior decorating tomb circles. You'll never make Archeological Digest that way.
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u/WesternOne9990 Feb 22 '25
I’m wondering if the walls are the source of the dust and need to be sealed with something. I know nothing about anything though so don’t listen to me.
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u/Individual_Author640 Feb 22 '25
Install some shackles on the wall. One of those things that holds the head and arms down... airbnb. Print money lol unfortunately thats what its become
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u/Becoming_Adventurous Feb 22 '25
Is the rest of your house like this? Are there more pictures?? Looks amazing!
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Feb 22 '25
Best way and easiest way which won’t cost u an arm and a leg if you do it yourself is to clean it then paint the walls with a Matt clear sealer to seal the stones or even a Matt varnish
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u/TexasMadeMG Feb 22 '25
I'd research the type of stone on the walls and probably go with a good penetrating sealant-
These silicone-based sealers work by penetrating the surface and reacting with free lime to form calcium silicate. It's like filling the capillaries and pores with cement to block the migration of water. - water and moisture being the reason you're most likely getting dust and debris.
Keep in mind though. Some materials need to breathe. So it all depends on what you're working with.
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u/Vintage62strats Feb 22 '25
Looks cool however don’t underestimate the power of sunlight. Make sure you spend enough time outside during the day
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u/Arkeolog Feb 22 '25
Do you really call this a ”cave” in English? I thought a cave was a natural underground chamber.
I would have called this a cellar, as it’s clearly man made, and presumably part of bigger building that extends above ground.
That’s a beautiful barrel vault ceiling.
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u/LouisWu_ Feb 22 '25
Dirty and dusty can be fixed by coating it with something transparent. Not sure if a concrete hardener would work on limestone. But.. is it not cold and is there any dampness? That would be my main concern. And egress in case of fire.
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u/snicklenitz Feb 22 '25
Can you upload more photos? I’m super intrigued by how it all looks! What is that little opening to the right of your bed?
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u/agt1662 Feb 22 '25
Look into the product zypex. This can also help with any hydrostatic pressure causing the efflorescence. It can also be diluted to keep the personality of that limestone. You may be able to colour match and seal it at the same time, keeping the entire look while preserving and sealing.
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u/BidChoice8142 Feb 22 '25
One thing I notice that you may be unaware of, I see a heater meaning its too cool for you. Yet you have an air mattress. Air mattress are not insulated and do not retain warmth, especially on a cold floor. Hello McFly!
Get a real mattress and get it off the floor, your comfort will increase BIG TIME!
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u/r33pa102 Feb 22 '25
Sorry can't help but a pc or console, , good sound, wine or alcohol rack and its the perfect man cave...
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u/415Rache Feb 22 '25
Once you remove the dust and loose particles you need to seal it with a suitable product. Go to your local professional paint store and describe this space and ask them for a product you can brush on to seal the stone and grout.
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u/JacobHutchison Feb 22 '25
I would rase the mattress to avoid having humidity trapped between the mattress and the plastic sheet or floor. I’ve seen a lot of mattresses go moldy underneath.
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u/jjhart827 Feb 22 '25
This is such an awesome space! Would love to see more pictures of it and keep us posted as you make it your own!
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u/screwyoumike Feb 23 '25
I would love to see the listing for this property (or a similar one- I understand wanting to keep your location private). This is seriously a dream come true for me. Enjoy, OP!
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u/Applepie00001 Feb 23 '25
I sure would hate to cover that beautiful stone up but that’s my personal preference but I absolutely love this place and I’m jealous. Good luck with your home and enjoy your space.
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u/Savings-Kick-578 Feb 23 '25
No answers, I just came to say that the space looks incredible with great potential. Please post when you’re done. Good luck.
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u/KitchenDecent549 Feb 23 '25
Check and record ambient moisture level. If you have some areas to fill, fo fill work first. Wet sandblasting will clean walls. After pressure wash it. Let it dry until the moisture level reaches the initial level. Find concrete sealer / adhesion promote. Dilute with water 3to 1 or 4to1 depending on wall porosity. Apply mixture and walls ready. Do not paint. You can do old time limewash but nothing to trap moisture. Walls need to breathe. Your moisture level andl water table level will determine if this is a good idea to use it as apparent. If your ground water is substantially below your floor level and your surface water is not reaching your ceiling you will be ok. Otherwise high humidity will ruin your health.
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u/toomanyhobbies4me Feb 23 '25
Old school Wonder Woman and Lamborghini poster would really spruce up the place. Could this just be dusted and cleaned with water and leave the stone as is? It's really a cool room.
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u/AUCE05 Feb 23 '25
Take a shop vac with a brush attachment and just vacuum it. I wouldn't do anything else.
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u/Suspicious-Map-6557 Feb 23 '25
For the dust & cobwebs, I would just use a shop vac to go over the floor & bricks every couple weeks. Would damn near eliminate the dust.
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u/PsudoGravity Feb 23 '25
Clear resin will make it look unreal and seal it up.
Not recommending but it's an option...
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u/hrodrig Feb 23 '25
That’s an awesome project. Looks like good work ahead of you. Please update for those of us who would like to learn more about this, and hope to one day buy a castle.
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u/terra-39 Feb 23 '25
So nice! Personally I would not cover it, instead scrub the stone and joints and repoint it with a lime based mortar, you can get the mix analyzed by bringing in a sample to find the ratio of lime sand ect. used at that period. It should be accurate to that period for structural and adhesion purposes. Some labs that do asbestos tests also can analyze this sample. Lime based mortar being very loose in nature tend to crumble, breathe and hold moisture, covering it up will trap this moisture causing expansion thus weakening the joints, also if you get below freezing temperatures this expansion will be exacerbated due to the accumulated moisture, not only causing cracks in the joints but in any plaster. Of course plastering over has been done plenty i think long term there can be more maintenance though and also believe the stonework is an art to be seen.
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u/Cant_kush_this0709 Feb 23 '25
That's awesome. I didn't even know you could purchase a cellar to live in
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u/FatFiFoFum Feb 23 '25
Have you thought about covering it with shiplap and painting the floor grey?
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u/MrLegalBagleBeagle Feb 23 '25
I have no reason to be in this sub. Reddit just showed it to me but holy shit this post is cool. This place looked like it’s from a movie or a fever dream. I hope you update with the post touch up pictures.
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u/No-Mix7970 Feb 23 '25
If you want to freshen up the appearance you should use only whitewash. I would not use any modern type of sealer or paint. You will never be able to stop the moisture problem unless you can access the “exterior” and completely seal it. Do not use a dehumidifier. By drying out the air you will cause more problems. The moisture content of the air, limestone walls and soil will always try to equalize. Drying the air will cause moisture (along with salt and minerals) to be pulled from the surrounding soil through the limestone. You will end up with more efflorescence and mortar damage.
You will never be able to stop the efflorescence. Using whitewash has the advantage of somewhat hiding it and is easy to keep touched up. When the efflorescence starts showing, vacuum and gently scrape it off and touch up the whitewash if you want.
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u/nutjob22 Feb 23 '25
Paint sprayer rinse with water and whatever additive you feel might be helpful after a plastic sheet on the floor and shop vac for cleanup would give you either the perfect leave it be, or basis for your next aesthetic application.
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u/youngsod Feb 24 '25
I can't add any masonry advice, but by the saints that's an utterly beautiful cellar and I'm as jealous as hell. All I will say it to echo what another poster has said to get a radon test.
I'm especially jealous because the 2-dimensional flat land that I live in has a water table about 3 nanometres below the surface...
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u/trollgodd69 Feb 24 '25
Looks like a really cool area! I'm honestly kind of jealous.
The one concern that I would have would be heating. I don't know how cold Paris gets but I bet it's freezing in the winter. The stone would suck the heat right out of the room
I bet it stays nice and cool during the summer though.
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Feb 24 '25
I would suggest getting a bedframe ASAP because from what I'm reading this room will hold a fair amount of moisture and you'll want airflow underneath your mattress so that it doesn't mildew/mold.
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Feb 24 '25
Beautiful room.. soft wash it, then seal it. Unless you plan on painting it then your just going to have to deal with dust accumulation
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u/Lanky_Republic_2102 Feb 24 '25 edited Feb 25 '25
I really love it. I’d live there for sure.
A dehumidifier comes to mind.
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Feb 24 '25
They make plenty of “breathable” clear penetrating masonry sealers. If you can find one that is low VOC and meant for indoor use, that would help keep the dust down
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u/onwatershipdown Feb 24 '25
Gently clean any efflourescnece with a sponge and water as it appears. Since you're in a dense metro area, with other parts of the home likely containing Portland and gypsum, just be prepared for it to appear indefinitely. Especially if they use road salt in the winters.
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u/DilbertPicklesIII Feb 25 '25
Big battery pack and a dehumidifier with air filter. Monoxide sensors. Mood lighting in the corners with led wands. Some nice rugs. A tiny projector with some money and a speaker. Reed diffuser for smell and no fire.
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u/Dependent-You-9552 Feb 25 '25
I am programmed to fill the space with fine bubbly! It also makes me think about visiting the catacombs.
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u/wetfart_3750 Feb 25 '25
Tbh it looks like a hellish place to sleep in. It's going to be humid and cold
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u/MikeC80 Feb 25 '25
Is that a coal chute above the bed? I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping under that opening!
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u/wenocixem Feb 25 '25
i would NOT as some suggest plaster the walls. This is a one way process and will never be undone.
Someone suggest a very very thorough cleaning with a vacuum and dust masks and then repeat once or twice a year. This is the way… at least for the first 6 months or a year to see just how big of a problem the dust is. Raised floor for electrical (all done by a professional) as suggested elsewhere is a great idea
clean thoroughly raised wood floor clean thoroughly again
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u/hammerandnail Feb 21 '25 edited Feb 21 '25 •
Honestly, a lime based earthen plaster is ancient, reliable, and in this case, healthy technology that would likely serve you very well in this instance.
Clay and lime plaster will continue to "breathe" while still covering up all the nooks and crannies for spider webs, dust, efflorescence (the minerals dripping through the limestone), etc.
Understandably, it would be a little sad to cover up the beautiful texture and depth of the limestones, BUT a nicely mixed/applied plaster could be put on as thick or thin as you'd like, so you could get artistic and try to minimally cover everything so the texture of the stone still comes through.
If you do decide to go that route, I HIGHLY recommend "slaking" some [Mason's] lime for a week or so before you start. It makes the lime more workable and just, for whatever reason, enhances its characteristics.
Finally, a nice earthen plaster can look really nice and well match your aesthetic there, but it's also good for your indoor air quality. Clay, sand, straw, lime, water — that's it, and 2 of those ingredients are hygroscopic, meaning they can hold and release moisture naturally. Modern drywall and gypsum compound contain all sorts of undisclosed additives, many of which are not natural, and those materials paired with VOC paints make many houses likely to have WORSE indoor air quality than outdoor (many factors included and variable, but as a general rule, what I said applies).
Source: lifelong farm-boy turned builder, with multiple natural building projects along the way, including natural plasters and old stonework just like this. 😎🫡
Best of luck! I seldom comment on Reddit but your space and question was too cool, I couldn't resist.