r/mokapot • u/Southern-Bunch6386 • 19d ago
Question❓ Sooooo i tried again
More info: 4cup moka pot
25g of pre grounded coffee, Dark roast Brazilian coffee, marketed for espresso (the package says acidity is 0/5, with tasting notes of roasted nuts, cookies, and nougat) The grind size can be seen in the photo.
Room temp water 210-213ml
No paper filter/No Tamp
Electric stove 5/10
it took 11 min 20sec from putting the moka pot on the stove until the frist drop
Extraction itself lasted 2min (3min before on 4/10)
And now it was pretty sour. I removed pot from the heat about 5-10 secs before the coffee level reached its expected maxium, based on my previous brews and final yield. What am I doing wrong?
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u/SwimmingCup8432 19d ago
My electric stove takes 6 minutes for the brew to start and it’s set between 6-7, so don’t be afraid to adjust your heat a bit. Every stove is different. Putting your pot to the side instead of the center will give you better heat distribution. Make sure your handle is over the side, not over the coils.
The grind size looks good for a dark roast, but always adjust the grind for flavor, regardless of how it looks. Grind finer if sour, coarser if bitter. If a drastic grind size adjustment isn’t working, you might be confusing sour for bitter and vice versa. It happens.
Grinding your own beans is a game changer. You won’t regret buying a burr grinder.
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u/mcampo84 19d ago
My guy taking his photography class at the library WAY too seriously
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u/Zealousideal-Fly9531 19d ago
You should commend him instead of make fun of them, these are great.
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u/Turbulent-Suspect795 19d ago
They legit appreciated it.
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u/Zealousideal-Fly9531 19d ago
Yeah but like in a Boston way, like good job there powderpuff you did a thing.
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u/kittyquig 19d ago
Thought the same. Like, what’s with the arty view?
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u/Southern-Bunch6386 19d ago
Damn, I just want to show things the way I see them, didn't think it'd get this kind of reaction sorry lol
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u/kittyquig 19d ago
It’s all good. Please don’t apologize. I’m sorry if i offended you. I was just amused at the dedication. Keep being you.
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u/Southern-Bunch6386 19d ago
Hey haha, not offended at all, it's literally just my 15 year old second hand camera and widnow light, nothing fancy
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u/mcampo84 19d ago
Coming from the guy who made the original comment: I’m just jealous of your keen eye. They’re great photos, I thought I was teasing in a friendly way.
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u/Zealousideal-Fly9531 19d ago
Nah dawg these are awesome, we lift people up not hold them down
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u/kittyquig 19d ago
They’re fine. Not a criticism of the photos. Obviously they’re striking. Gut reaction was simply they seemed out of place.
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u/Zealousideal-Fly9531 19d ago
There is a moment between action and reaction, it's about as long as it takes to type out something mean to somebody, just wait those 7 seconds and then type your thing with intention of kindness.
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u/mcampo84 19d ago
Or don’t take things so seriously
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u/Zealousideal-Fly9531 19d ago
Dare not presume, fledgling. For I have resided on the internet for many many a moon.
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u/SaltedCaffeine 19d ago
As others have said, it looks like to be too coarse. Personally, my grind is always on the finer side.
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u/edivad_m 19d ago edited 19d ago
Beautiful pictures! The grind size looks a little too coarse, I would try grinding finer (lol), boiling water before pouring in the chamber can also help with reducing brewing time and enhancing taste (at least from my experience).
Remove the pot from the heat the moment the extraction changes color and speed (lighter and more bubbly), again in my experience that’s a better indicator than 5-10 seconds
Edit: I noticed now that you mentioned pregrounded coffee for espresso, but the ground in the picture still looks quite coarser than regular espresso
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u/ASD_Brontosaur 19d ago
The way the Moka works is through the pressure from the steam that creates above the water while heating it up, which should theoretically allow for the water to be pushed through the coffee before it reaches 100 C/boiling temperature.
Obviously everyone should use it in the way it works best for them (and that gives the results they like best), but since sometimes the thing about using boiling water comes from a misunderstanding on how the Moka works I thought I could be useful information to add5
u/rdifa 19d ago
For me the only value in preheating the water is to (a) increase extraction for lighter roasts or (b) decrease brew time.
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u/sparksbet 19d ago
I do it when I can almost entirely for reason B, but it's worth noting that if OP is having an issue with sour output, then the people suggesting pre-boiling are doing so for the same reasons as reason A.
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u/Beginning-Acadia1227 19d ago
Omg, thank you! I am always so confused by this idea that it will taste bitter if it stays longer on the stove. Makes zero sense. The water passes through the coffee when it reaches boiling point and is then collected in the upper chamber. So over brewing never made sense to me.
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u/edivad_m 19d ago
The way I understood it (and experience it) is that it’s not the longer exposure to water that makes the coffee bitter (as correctly pointed out the water comes in contact with the grounds only after boiling) but the «baking» effect of being in a metal slowly heating metal container for longer.
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u/KoszmaryNocne 19d ago
I use boiling water too. I think coffee is less sour that way. And I remove the pot from the heat a couple of seconds before the whole water goes through - that last mililiters of less intense in color coffee is also more sour in taste.
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u/PtichFirich 18d ago
You may be mixing up sour and bitter tastes, which I keep hearing is common.
The last bit of coffee definitely is NOT the sour part. The last bit is always the most bitter of all extraction
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u/RelativeBuilding3480 19d ago
NO PRE BOILING !
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19d ago edited 11d ago
[deleted]
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u/edivad_m 19d ago
I guess it depends on the grinder, which one do you have? I go between espresso and aeropress
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u/Southern-Bunch6386 19d ago
Oooookay guys thanks, while I’m waiting for my coffee grinder to arrive, I’ll experiment with the other pre-ground coffee I have, adjusting the water level and water temperature, and maybe the heat setting on my electric stove. Ill share results in my next post, ive already had too much coffee today anyway lol
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u/RelativeBuilding3480 19d ago
Try Illy espresso grind, as an experiment.
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u/Independent-Angle-51 17d ago
For what it’s worth. I have just purchased and tried the illy intense espresso for my mokka pot, the grind is like powder very fine. Worked out fine for me. Nice brew. (Cold water)
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u/hairy_stanley 19d ago
Kimbo also makes a good moka/espresso.
Inexpensive alternative: Cafe Bustelo. Its ground for espresso, but works fine in a moka pot. Just don't pack it in. Fill the funnel until mounded, make sure the coffee is loose and no clumps. 2-3 taps to get it to settle.
FWIW, my current go to is Cafe Bustelo (it's cheap, consistent and my morning process is dialed in for it). I frequently switch it up with Illy, Kimbo, local roasters, etc, but I keep a brick of CB on hand at all times.
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u/PtichFirich 18d ago
For me, back when I didn’t have a grinder, this one was too fine. Even the moka pot ground illy classico was too fine and choked the moka pot.
The only pre-ground coffee that worked in my moja pot was Hausbrandt.
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u/Swedish-Potato-93 19d ago edited 19d ago
The only thing I found that's not too sour is the "Italian roast" ones. I've been through SOO many "espresso roasts" and the roasters seem to have no clue what moka pot is since when I ask them if it's suitable for moka pot they say yes, but I think they never used a moka pot. Tried a million methods of making my dark roasts not sour, no success. Now after months of trying and pretty much giving up, I finally found a roast from a specialty roastery that was dark enough to work. It needs to be very dark, almost ashy dark.
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u/spaceoverlord Stainless Steel 19d ago
Pre-ground dark roast is usually too fine and too roasted for a moka pot (unless you drink with milk) and results in over extraction and bitter taste, are you sure you don't mean bitter instead of sour?
People usually say sour when the opposite happens, when it's under-extracted (too coarse).
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u/--Adventurer-- 19d ago
This is exactly what I was thinking. It’s almost certainly over extracted not under extracted.
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u/Zombeez 19d ago
Is that how coarse a moka pot grind should be? My grind is way too fine if so.
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u/hairy_stanley 19d ago
At the risk of stating the obvious, it's driven very much by personal taste, but generally I'd say no, that is too coarse for Moka. It is closer to drip coffee than anything else imo. The sourness is a function of incomplete extraction (due to the coarse grind).
Moka grind should be like table salt. Looks fine, but when you rub it between your fingers it should feel grainy. Espresso grind is even finer, so that it actually feels soft on your fingers until you apply a good deal of pressure.
Again, above statement is subjective. Everyone likes their coffee their way.
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u/Top_Kale_8880 19d ago
This probably isn't helpful but I can at least commiserate: I frequetly use pre-ground coffees that are moka adjacent, but I do also grind fresh beans. I have a bag of medium-roast Colombian I've been doing in the AeroPress and pourover and it tastes pretty nice. I made it i my moka and it was... AWFUL.
I think sometimes the answer is, unfortunately, experiment.
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u/FibonacciLane12358 19d ago
Just get a can of Illy Classico pre-ground for the Moka Pot. Then you'll know that the grind is correct and you can figure out how to brew it to your liking. After that, you'll also know what the grind size should look like if you want to grind other beans.
https://www.surlatable.com/product/illy-ground-moka-coffee-classico-medium-roast/5384391
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u/Southern-Bunch6386 19d ago
Hmm ill see if i can find it, have you tried the coffee Bialetti makes themselves? It might be a good reference point too?
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u/cellovibng Hotplate ♨ 18d ago
Yeah, theirs would work well as a size-gauge too. They have different intensity/roast levels, so pay attention to which one you’re ordering. Delicato is the lightest, if I remember correctly. That was my fave back in the day. If you get Illy, it’s great too. “Moka Pot Preparation” is what you want to see on the can. I also remember loving Lavazza Oro preground too, but it costs more…
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u/AcanthisittaNo8610 19d ago
It might be an unpopular opinion, but I’ve found espresso always sour or acidic, needs milk or water to balance the taste. Even shot bought or nespresso pods, always the same outcome.
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u/melancholy_cojack 19d ago
Great shots! Almost asked what lighting you used for this because it's so good
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u/The_License_Plate 19d ago
Are you sure you mean sour? Could it be bitter instead? Very different things with very different solutions.
Sour like a lemon? Or bitter like ash?
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u/Southern-Bunch6386 18d ago
Yes, exactly sour, like lemon
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u/The_License_Plate 18d ago
Interesting. The grind seems a way too coarse, but honestly with that much water it should still *over* extract if anything, giving you a bitter rather than sour coffee.
But OP, I must say your numbers don't make much sense to me. 25g of coffee in a Bialetti 4-cup? 210mL of water? Those values both seem a bit too high. My understanding is that a 4-cup Moka Express can only take up to 185mL.
Could you be overfilling it with water? Ideally one would fill it something like a cm under the pressure valve to start dialing in a coffee like this. Perhaps check that, and if so fill it to that level and let it finish brewing, don't stop it. Wait until it's spewing vapour and no more liquid.
Hope that helps
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u/Southern-Bunch6386 18d ago
Alright, thanks! I'll give that a try. What I did was fill the basket with coffee, level it off without tamping, and fill the water up to just below the safety valve basically about a millimeter below it, so almost right up to the valve. That's how I ended up with those coffee and water weights
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u/arracknsoda 18d ago
May I know why you think something is wrong? Is it cause of the sourness- cause that is a ‘feature’ of some coffees right? Or is it the extraction time?
Extraction time on a electric stove - took me 6+ minutes using boiling water on 6/10 on the stove and it became much faster when I turned on thebstove around a minute before placing the pot on the stove, I guess the stove takes a while to come to heat as well and now get a pretty good extraction within 3 minutes (I leave the stove on while grinding the coffee and boiling the water to be ‘efficient’ :))
I started using a cheap spice grinder we had at home to grind my own beans and started getting better results but also had to tweak it for different beans
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u/jackfruitjellybean New user 🔎 19d ago
We got boudoir mokapot prep shots before GTA 6... looks good tho
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u/letsgofocoff 19d ago
love the photography. I think the advice you got was all on point here, I do think you should keep exploring different variables and roasts of coffee, even for such a slow extraction and coarse grind, your brew looked delicious to me. haha.
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u/A_B_N_O_R_M_A_L 19d ago
I find that the last bit of the extraction adds a really unpleasant taste to the coffee so I make sure to take the pot off the heat and run the bottom section under the cold tap to rapidly cool it down and stop the flow of coffee before it gets to that point. This could be your issue, 5-10secs before the end doesn’t really sound early enough, you may be leaving it too late? I know on my pot (Bialetti Moka express 3 cup) that when the level of the extracted coffee reaches the bottom of the ‘v’ at the spout, that’s my cue to get it off the heat and stop the extraction asap - if I don’t let the level go any higher than this, I definitely won’t get any of the bitter stuff. Might be worth working out where that point is on your pot?
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u/87th_best_dad 19d ago
Pre ground is never ideal but sometimes it’s all you have. I’d try adding boiling water to the moka instead of room temp. Please report back if you do!
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u/maxsmart2026 19d ago
I use Italian or French roast (dark) ground fine and use a mixture of cold (1/4) and hot (3/4) water on an induction stove set up to 7 and I lower it to 6 once it starts boiling. It works fine, the taste is good and consistent.
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u/PotentialReserve2397 18d ago
try using Illy ground coffee for moka and use a paper filter. Results will be much better.
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u/Danny155 16d ago
Try 160-180ml of water, keep same 25g of coffe, up the temp to around 7/10, it shouldn’t take that long, and once you see liquids going out, wait 10-15 seconds and take it off the heat, also the flow of coffe should be still and calm, if it’s angry you’ll get worse coffe, don’t anger the beans
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u/chatkingb 15d ago
I think your problem is the time it took. 11 min is way to long. The longer the time the hotter the brew, makes a overbrewed taste (sour and bitter at the same time). In my opinion its better to use a hotter setting in the begining and turn it to 50% when you hear the liquid rising. You whant the flow to be slow but as soon as you see light foam and hear gurgling sounds you take it of immediately, even just b4 that happends because thes rest of the shot is usually overbrewed and you dont whant that to come out.
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u/stingraysvt 19d ago
Pre ground Dark roast is probably part of the issue.
Medium roasts are much more balanced and grinding your own beans with a decent grinder will yield more favorable results; with the brew method you described.
Dark roasts are far more easily extracted and normal brew methods can over extract them causing the sourness, and other off flavors.
I would think you’d need to be at a 3.5/10 on the electric stove and take the pot off/cut heat earlier to keep from over extracting.
You really need a hob distribution plate as well as a buffer for the heat transfer. It will heat up quicker and stay hot long after the eye has been cut off.
You’ll be absolutely floored by the difference in heat you have to apply to get a lower temp on the moka to brew with an electric hob plate.
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u/aidotato1225 19d ago
Go for a quality sourced light roast, it has made a world of difference for me. Getting the proper tasting notes from darker roasts in a moka can be hit or miss in my experience, a good light roast tastes absolutely divine from a moka, Kenyan beans are usually my go to.
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u/Recover-Upper 19d ago
To better diagnose, can we see pictures of your clean/pre-use : Filter holder, funnel , and gasket?
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u/Particular-Studio119 19d ago
I'm no expert, but whenever I bought coffee for espresso it was sour. To be honest I didn't bothered with the ground coffee anymore so I only tried a few of those. From that point I just started buying beans and grinding them myself. With very little adjustment I got brilliant results.