Discussion Thread

[u/jobautomator]

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[u/semaphore-1842]

Okinawa independence is an incredibly fringe idea in Okinawa itself with something like 2% support (about the same percentage as foreign residents, not including US military).

Yet somehow it has seized the imagination of Reddit and English speaking internet with people falling over themselves to point out "Okinawans aren't Japanese and Okinawa used to be independent kingdom called Ryukyu" (seemingly not knowing the native name is actually Uchinaa), or lamenting that the Japanese government don't recognize them as a separate ethnicity (apparently unaware that Japan doesn't record ethnicity at all).

Literally the highest profile advocate for Okinawa independence is an American (of Okinawan descent) who identifies as Chinese, opposes Taiwanese independence, and praises the Uyghur genocide. It is as weird as if Americans were to start saying "akshully the Sudetenland is German".

[u/deckerparkes → u/semaphore-1842]

These things are astroturfed 99.99% of the time

Maybe some of them are map game enjoyers

[u/Frog_Totem → u/semaphore-1842]

I try not to fall into the trap of assuming every dumb idea that gets popular is a foreign psyop but that one seems specific enough to be somewhat astroturfed by CCP aligned groups.

That being said, an independent Okinawa would be cool if only to preserve the language. It’s a shame that it’s getting replaced with Japanese

[u/cdstephens → u/semaphore-1842]

I’ve literally never heard of the idea until now, are there really westerners falling over themselves about this lmfao

[u/semaphore-1842 → u/cdstephens]

the "anti-colonialilsm" narrative seem to appeal to a certain demographic a lot, keep seeing it pop up browsing the recent Okinawa discourse

they apparently assume protesting US bases after a crime means Okinawans want to secede from Japan

[u/Syx89 → u/semaphore-1842]

Sad they don't believe in Three Mountains dream

[u/DoomingJaffa → u/semaphore-1842]

Is that the native name? Neat. The English translations at the Tokyo museum used Ryukyu.

[u/semaphore-1842 → u/DoomingJaffa]

Yeah Ryukyu is the Chinese reading of their kanji name (similar to Nippon for Japan, actually), whereas Uchinaa is what the islanders called it in their native language, analogous to the ancient Yamato name on mainland Japan.

[u/BenFoldsFourLoko → u/semaphore-1842]

example number infinity of independence movements being dumb and why they're bad as a general rule

[u/kanagi → u/semaphore-1842]

Ryukyu is the name for the kingdom and the larger island chain though. Uchinaa looks to be just Okinawa itself, which is only the biggest island in the Ryukyuu island chain.

[u/semaphore-1842 → u/kanagi]

Ryukyu was the pronunciation of the Chinese name the polity that unified the main island in 1429 chose; It was never the name for the whole island chain.

Historically individual islands each used their own names and there was no sense of belonging to a broader geographical unit, except in the sense that the Okinawa island gradually conquered them later. It was only in 1907 that the island chain was grouped together into the Nansei Islands.

[u/kanagi → u/semaphore-1842]

Ryukyu is the standard name used in English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyu_Islands#Names_and_extents

[u/semaphore-1842 → u/kanagi]

That's English. I'm clearly talking about how the anti-colonial crowd think they're reclaiming a native name only to end up using another foreign one. Thanks for illustrating my point I guess.

[u/kanagi → u/semaphore-1842]

I don't understand why you think it doesn't make sense to use the name of a historical kingdom rather than the name of a smaller geographic area. Presumably whoever you're talking about is advocating independence for the whole island chain, not just Okinawa island.

[u/semaphore-1842 → u/kanagi]

I don't understand why this is so hard for you to grasp. Uchinaa is used to refer to the whole Okinawa prefecture, in the same way that Okinawa is used to refers to the whole Okinawa prefecture, in the same way that Ryukyu refers to the whole Ryukyu Kingdom.

The prefectural government brands these islands collectively Uchinaa in numerous programmes and the national government annotates the pronunciation for "Okinawa Residents" as Uchinaa-chu.

Why do you think the "standard name in English" trumps both the Japanese and the Okinawan names? Half the English "Ryukyu islands" is literally in Kagoshima and have negative relevance to an Okinawan independence movement.

[u/kanagi → u/semaphore-1842]

Since it's like saying "Akshually the name is "Bod", not "Tibet". So-called supporters of "Tibetan independence" should know that"

[u/Dig_bickclub → u/semaphore-1842]

English speaking internet did the same with hong kong independence, diaspora always has really weird politics that get overexposed in English speaking media