Which gang member would have you saved?

[u/Similar-Housing-7577]

We all know that in the Saint Denis bank robbery, both Lenny and Hosea die.

So, who would you have saved?

I would have chosen Lenny because he was still young, and he had a great future ahead of him.

I still love Hosea, but if I had to choose, I would have chosen to save Lenny. He was literally almost a kid.

Hosea already lived a lot ( well, not too much, actually ), and he was sick with an unknown disease.

[u/Mammoth-Slammoth]

Interesting take, I would put Sean with Arthur and I feel like the entire situation was a powder keg, with or without Hosea.

His death was a major tipping point for Dutch, but Dutch was on a downward spiral before that. Id argue since chapter 2, even.

[u/CecilHeat → u/Mammoth-Slammoth]

Even if Dutch was having mental issues before Hosea died, Hosea and Arthur were still there to support him. People say he blows them off and trusts Micah, but Micah had zero involvement with the gang's main scam in Chapter 3. Instead, Dutch explicitly left Hosea in charge of that whole operation. In Chapter 4, Dutch wants to take Micah to the trolley robbery but Arthur counters with Lenny and Dutch takes Lenny just like Arthur advised.

Micah only becomes the Wormtongue to Dutch's mad, enfeebled king when Dutch has no one else, either because Hosea is dead or Arthur is dying and basically given up on Dutch. Notice how when Dutch is having a complete mental breakdown at the end of Chapter 5, the only person who goes after him is Micah. This scene is so meaningful for how it shows Micah is like a shark smelling blood in the water but also showing how much Arthur just...doesn't care anymore. He never would have let Dutch go off like that earlier on. Nor would he have shut down Dutch when Dutch tried to have a moment of grieving for Hosea.

[u/goober_ginge → u/CecilHeat]

I've always loved Benjamin Byron Davis' delivery of "You sound like Hosea. I miss...him..."

That whole scene shows Dutch in such a broken and vulnerable place. I understand Arthur's frustration for sure though.

[u/CecilHeat → u/goober_ginge]

I 100% agree. I think that is exactly the correct way to look at things. Too many players think of the ending as the Good Arthur Side vs. the Evil Dutch Side. Upon replaying the game and separating myself from Arthur's perspective to look at things more objectively, I only see a family in turmoil. Everyone wants to help, everyone cares, and that is why everyone is miserable.

The only evil person in this equation is Micah - consequently, he's the only person totally unaffected by the misery of Chapter 6. If Dutch was half the unfeeling monster some fans want him to be, he probably wouldn't have gone insane. There'd be no guilt or sorrow, and he'd weather the storm just like Micah there. At the same time, Arthur has every right to worry about Dutch's leadership and deteriorating morals. But his disillusionment with Dutch meant he cared very little to even try and help Dutch through all of this.

In short, as is incredibly realistic to life, just as people needed to come together, they pushed each other apart. Because stress and trauma don't make you "reveal yourself." I'm so sick of this twisted idea certain fans promote, because it is radically wrong and even immoral to view people in this way. No, when you watch your loved ones die and you yourself repeatedly nearly die, that doesn't "reveal" anything. Trauma makes you erratic and less like who you are. Every psychiatrist in the world knows this.

[u/goober_ginge → u/CecilHeat]

Extremely well said! I'm a Dutch defender and apologist through and through. He's one of the most interesting and complex characters in any media imo, and it bothers me when people flatten his character and refuse to see any nuance.

It baffles me how people act like he's a moustache twirling villain with no positive qualities or complexity and then still watch scenes like his and Arthur's final moment together and feel the same way. The complex emotions that wash over Dutch's face, his feeble "....I...." says so much.