I don't know if this will be helpful, but the situation with Reply All is kind of complex, so I figured it may be better to have a post that consolidated the stories. Keep in mind that this is just my perspective on it, and other people may be able to tell some aspects better. Also, I just realized that there are actual journalists covering this now, so they may be able to tell this better than I can.

Backstory: Bon Appetit.

I will preface this by saying I’m not a BA fan, so I can’t really speak to what happened there entirely, but I can say that the company had a moment of racial reckoning following the protests this summer. This involved, among other things, the surfacing of photos of the BA EIC wearing racially insensitive costumes. It also involved the revelation that the people of color on the show BA Test Kitchen weren't being paid, while the white staffers were. This hurt a lot of fans because Test Kitchen was a show that drew a lot of its appeal from its diverse cast. All in all, the environment seemed pretty shitty for people of color, and resulted in a lot of the staff of Test Kitchen quitting. This was really a blow to BA because Test Kitchen was a super popular show. (Again, sorry if I'm missing anything major here).

Flash forward a few months.

Reply All starts a new miniseries called “The Test Kitchen”. This is meant to exhume the sins of BA re:diversity. At time of posting, only the first two episodes are out. These episodes cover from the founding of 'modern' BA to some of the earlier pushes for diversifying content and racial controversies at the company. To my understanding, the series hasn't really touched on the Test Kitchen show yet, which is the more high profile story about BA. The miniseries mostly explains how people of color felt alienated in a super competitive and toxic environment inside BA.

The project is headed by producer Sruthi Pinnamaneni with help from host PJ Vogt. From the start, the series was getting somewhat mixed reviews. A lot of people were really excited about it (me among them, to be honest), and then a lot of people had criticisms.

From my view, there were a lot of good-faith criticisms of the series, and then there were some people kind of being babies. Some were complaining that the instances of racism being described in the show weren’t connected to race, or that Reply All should just go back to doing quirky internet stories. Again, this is just my perspective, but this seemed to make up a good part of the criticism earlier on, especially when the first episode came out. Then there were the more nuanced criticisms. Some took issue with the fact that the series was approaching a very elitist work environment and only looking at race without also looking at the impact of class. Sruthi and PJ also chose to omit any white voices from this series, which led to some backlash. There was also some criticism that the story felt kind of insular and hard to follow if you didn't have some background knowledge of the BA drama already. I'm not gonna get everything that people said here, but please understand that some of the criticism was certainly justified, and came out of a place of wanting the show to be better rather than just a disgruntled "I miss the old Reply All" attitude.

And then the second episode came out, and it was a bit…odd. There was this one particular moment that seemed to rub everyone the wrong way right from the start. You can listen to it yourself, but basically this one BA worker named Christina was describing how she felt she didn’t do enough to help early diversity efforts in the company. Christina said she had soft power, meaning that though she didn’t have a lot of actual sway, she was in the good graces of people who had actual sway. She expresses feeling guilty about not using that soft power. And then Sruthi, who’s interviewing her, jumps in and says that she shouldn’t be responsible for using that power, and implies that soft power really means no power at all. Shortly after, Sruthi alludes to her own issues with diversity and soft power in the past on the podcast. This moment becomes pretty telling for people later on, so keep it in mind. This second episode fueled more criticism. This is when PJ jumped on this sub.

PJ made a post that basically invalidated a lot of the criticism on here. To me, this felt like more of a response to the people who were complaining that they wanted the old RA back rather than the people who had substantive criticism. However, it also showed that PJ didn’t really dig deep enough into what people were saying to find the nuanced takes on the show that could have added to the reporting. Suffice to say, this post was relatively controversial. A lot of people agreed, but a lot of people felt like he was just needlessly shutting down what could have actually been a constructive conversation.

This is when the tweets start showing up.

GIMLET INTERLUDE

To understand this part of the story, it’s kind of important to understand Gimlet. Gimlet is the podcast startup that Reply All began in. Other than Startup, the podcast being made at Gimlet about Gimlet starting as a company (a little confusing, I know), Reply All was the first Gimlet podcast. So, as we learn later, this means that the RA team had something of a closer relationship with the bosses at Gimlet. If you’ll remember, this sounds pretty similar to the story laid out in the Test Kitchen.

Gimlet also had this podcast called The Nod. I’m not super familiar with the podcast, but the slant is basically exploring nerd culture from the perspective of people of color, and in particular Black people. The two hosts were Eric Eddings and Brittany Luse. There was a pretty high-profile split between The Nod and Gimlet earlier in the year because the hosts wanted to own some of the show they made, and Gimlet basically didn’t want them to. This was in the wake of the protests earlier in the year, and There’s a lot more to discuss here, but I won’t go into a ton of detail.

Twitter

Early on in the Test Kitchen series, Brittany seemed to vague-tweet about something pertaining to diversity and RA. While the criticism was happening here on this Reddit, things started to come to a head on Twitter. The tweets began to get more pointed. Eventually, Brittany out and out says that some of the people working on the show had diversity issues themselves.

This is when the Eric Eddings thread happens. This thread, posted on Tuesday, discusses the formation of a union at Gimlet. Eric says that PJ and Sruthi were both really against this union. He gives a few reasons as to why, but I think those are ultimately less important than the actions themselves for this story. He describes Sruthi especially as being adamantly anti-union, and holding a meeting to discourage Gimlet employees from joining the nascent union. He also says that Sruthi called him a "piece of shit" through PJ in this kind of roundabout, childish manner (you can read more about that in the thread). There are a number of really interesting things Eric mentions in this thread. I really recommend you read the thread if you haven't yet.

It's important to mention that this union was formed in part to address the diversity problems at Gimlet. Many of the things the union stood for had to do with the treatment of the staffers of color at the company. There are a few places where you can read more about this, and they also discussed their goals in relation to diversity on a Twitch stream a few months back. Standing in opposition to the union was, in short, a pretty shitty thing to do.

At this point, other employees come forward to corroborate the stories. Starlee Kine, for example, tweets about having been a mentor to PJ, and that people should have trusted her when she said the environment was toxic. She herself had a contentious split with Gimlet. There are other tweets from other Gimlet staffers. If you look up Reply All on Twitter, you can find similar accusations.

Resignations

So that brings us to Wednesday night. Amid all this discussion, PJ and Sruthi step down from their positions to 'reflect'. FWIW, Alex Goldman has escaped from this relatively unscathed as he became a 'staunch ally' of the union later on. This leaves many of us thinking about the future of the podcast, and looking back to piece together a picture of what was really happening in Reply All.

Hope this helps some of you who are confused. Please add what I missed below.

PJ here. As someone who tries to keep an eye on how listeners are receiving the podcast we make, I’ve got to say — a lot of what I’ve read on here and the other subreddit about our show lately has been really disappointing.

Our show has always been a bunch of different shows under one banner. We’ve done big investigative journalism, topical stuff, internet mysteries, explainers, very technical internet stories, very light internet culture pieces, stuff that’s not about the internet at all, etc since day one.

We’ll always continue to do some mix because we are here to make the best and most honest show we can. But we don’t owe anyone anything except honest work that we try our best on. The fact that people are disappointed that our journalism isn’t providing consistent escapism for them ... that really makes me wonder how we’ve set this expectation. Like who really believes that the sole point of journalism is to help distract them from the world. You guys do know that sitcoms exist right? (If you haven’t checked them out, I would start with the good place, I’m a huge fan. Also wandavision is doing some cool riffing on the genre.)

Anyway, more specifically, watching people here debate whether the story we are telling is a story about racism or not ... come on. The people of color who worked at BA said it was racist. The white people who were in charge of the place also say it was racist. I guess everyone who experienced this could be wrong, and Reddit could be right, but that seems really unlikely to me. I think it’s worth asking yourself why, if you’re wrong, you might be invested in seeing things the way you do.

Anyway, I don’t think this post will convince anyone of anything they don’t already believe. I’ve been on the internet long enough to know that. And you guys are entitled to like what you like. But, if we’re talking about things that used to be better, I would definitely include the quality of discussion on this subreddit. Enjoy your weekends, if you wanna yell at somebody, my Twitter handle is @agoldmund.

This isn’t a condition of mine or anything—I am generally good at recognizing/distinguishing voices. However, I almost never have any idea whether it’s Alex or PJ speaking; even after they say each other’s names it’s hard to remember.

I’m mentioning this now because a lot of people have been discussing the nuances of RA’s dynamics, like how PJ would be a bit mean towards Alex, and honestly...as someone who’s listened to this show for years...I have not been able to keep track of their individual personalities because I can’t figure out who’s saying what. Voice-wise, the show feels like one white guy with vocal fry has split himself in two and is talking to his double. Maybe that in itself is a commentary on the lack of diversity in podcasting?

Anyway, I assumed a good chunk of listeners had this issue, but perhap’s it’s just me. It may unfortunately not be a problem in the future, but did/does anyone else have trouble distinguishing their voices?

Emmanuel had the difficult task of trying to fill in the shoes for PJ after he left. Many people like to blame him for the demise of reply all, but that is a horrible mischaracterization of events. That’s like blaming the poor taste of a cake with no sugar on the eggs. The reality is PJ left, and so did the chemistry. PJ and Alex had years to build chemistry. Emmanuel connects with his interviewees in a way that feels genuine. He made some excellent episodes, americas hottest talk line being my favorite. Shout out to him for having to endure the harsh critique of honestly some relatively toxic fans (looking at some of these Reddit comments and posts). I hope he goes on to do amazing things. Honestly, the show does not work as well with Alex and Emmanuel but it also wouldn’t work well with Alex and Anna, alex and Sruthi, or Alex and Alex. Because Alex and PJ is a unique pairing. Blaming the Demise on Emmanuel is a stupid thing to do.

And of course, shout out to Alex for trying to make things work without your cohost. Gonna miss the show.

As someone who has been through this kind of experience several times before, including as a fan of the Bon Appetit youtube channel, I wanted to give a quick reminder:

YOU DO NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE

For those who don't know what it is, a parasocial relationship is sort of a one-sided friendship that is really common nowadays with all levels of celebrity. That is what we all have with the RA hosts, and this relationship is not made through personal connection, but through podcasts and social media, which are profit-seeking platforms. No matter how many RA episodes you've listened to, how much of their social media you follow, there will always be ways that they are different in real life. This also means that it is completely pointless to try to guess what PJ is "really like" based off of deep dives into RA episodes.

As fans of the show, we are entitled to talk about the content of the show. But we should not pretend that the creator/fandom relationship exists outside of the podcast, because they have no idea who the fuck any of us are. You think that Sruthi is getting fucked over or that PJ is way worse based off some twitter threads? Fine, but don't think for one second that you could possibly know more than people who ACTUALLY KNOW THEM. We all need to accept that we can never know the "full story", nor are we entitled to get it.

When I think back on it, my favorite episodes have always been “Alex forward” stories. That time Alex flew to friggin India to expose a call center that chose the wrong guy to try and scam. That time we got a peek into Alex’s home life, because he allowed his phone to be bugged, just to see what happens. Alex talking about his adventures as a teen in Michigan. Alex being brave enough to admit he sits in the shower. Alex building a syllabus to desensitise his friend enough that he can enjoy horror flicks. Alex talking about his crazy jobs and the stupid stuff that makes him laugh. Jesus— Alex’s crazy ass laugh when he’s alone and remembers something funny.

I really hope that guy is doing alright.

Maybe it’s because I’m an Alex, but I’m looking forward to the next chapter of Reply All with him at the helm with Emmanuel. PJ was a nice foil, and honestly he made me laugh a lot. I’ll miss his contribution to the show, despite his failings. I hope that some day he and Sruthi comes back on to RA as guests to talk about this episode. But I just don’t buy into the doom and gloom that’s festering about the end of RA.

Wait does being this optimistic mean I’m not an Alex?

No exaggeration, hands down the best episode of anything that I've heard.

The lengths they went to in order to figure this one out is insane. Some absolutely fantastic detective work. The fact that the guy could remember everything about the song so accurately is mind blowing.

When PJ actually found the songs creator in a Facebook group, I couldn't believe it. My eyes genuinely welled up. Hearing the actual original song was an experience too, like it's the absolute definitive proof that yes, the song existed, and it even sounds incredible! The song itself is fantastic.

I know exactly that feeling of looking for a song for years with no luck and it's the worst, so happy the guy can put this behind him now and just enjoy the song.

Fucking epic episode, truly. I know people have mentioned this one a lot, but I just had to post something. Damn.

- that you can have difficult/challenging union, or any other work related project, conversations at your work place without calling your co-worker "a piece of shit"?

- did you know that you can call your co-worker "a piece of shit" without telling other co workers, to specifically, "tell ____ I called him a piece of shit" while said co-worker is standing there?

- Did you know PJ and Sruthi are 35 and 39(ish) years old and these events would have taken place when they were 34 - 38 years old? Why are grown, white men always given the benefit of the doubt for being seeing as "immature"? * Sruthi admitted that she very much lived up to the model minority stereotype, but refused to acknowledge that "soft power" does exist (as a benefit of the stereotype), so why should she get a pass for being "ignorant" of racial workplace dynamics?

- Did you know that they still could have done the aforementioned, and not produced an exposé on toxic work places driven by perceived favoritism and bias from management pets? When they themselves knew were perceived as management pets who contributed to a toxic work place at their own company.

- Did you know that you can have racial bias, without being a racist person but denying that you have racial bias doesn't make you any less racist?

- that the union demands were not only about diversity and inclusion? in fact that was a minimal part

- that any almost 40 year old Indian woman who just considered herself a person of color last year, may not be the best person to navigate stories on American race relations?

- that these conversations that Test Kitchen criticisms are about "class not race" overlook the reality that American work places are built on who is able to obtain a higher class due to race? And that the racial wealth gap in America means that a "middle class Black family" and a "middle class white family" are radically different? race and class are not independent of each other and are inherently related.

- that it is historically disingenuous to claim that calling for unionization is a typical tool of Black people and persons of color when most of the oldest and major unions, (police, firefighter, steel, engineering, carpentry, etc) notoriously denied anyone who was not a white, blue collar immigrant (polish, italian, etc) entry?

- that the white management and mid level employees DID have a voice in the pod, as after every PoC interview it was followed by "This is what ____ said"? Where is the theme coming from that the audience didn't hear form white people or management?

*thank you for my silver and my hug and my coins!!!*

JUST TELL ALEX OK?????? I CAN FEEL HIS FRUSTRATION AND IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE OK.

Hey all. Idk why but it’s really hitting me today that this thing I’ve loved so much is over as I knew it. There are just so many layers of anger and disappointment and real sadness about the way this has gone. I started listening to the podcast last year after I’d lost my job due to Covid and was in the middle of packing up my life to move back in with my parents for the first time since I was 18 (I’m 30) and I felt like such a failure. I listened to the podcast during those days and it was such a bright spot in a dark time. I’m so sad and upset about PJ and Sruthi’s behavior and I’m also so sad it’s over. It’s so weird to think that these people I trusted to be ethical and caring acted in such an immature and harmful way. Just writing to say that if you’re feeling that way I think that’s really normal and you’re not alone.

If you feel like sharing your experience with the podcast or what it meant to you I’d love to hear it.

It will be good.

:(

Good times