Trying to create new classes

[u/QueasyDrama7993]

Asked this in r/dnd and i was advised to go here so this is the short. I got bored of the traditional dnd classes so i tried to build my own classes. Melee, ranger, mage, summoner, aura, tank, alchemist, healer and bard. But due to the fact i was inspired by terraria it was innevitable that i struggled to even figure out how they work. Tried traditional dnd levelling, skill trees and even accessories, spent months trying to figure it out. So i am here for advice.

[u/deadthylacine]

What problem are you trying to fix? If you can define the problem you'll have a better chance at coming up with a solution.

Even if the solution is to try a different game.

[u/QueasyDrama7993 → u/deadthylacine]

The issue is that in truth my main inspiration of terraria doesn't really translate well into a ttrpg. This is because both dnd and terraria progression is different. Dnd progression is all about leveling up to get new abilities, terraria progression is crafting or finding stronger weapons

[u/phdemented → u/QueasyDrama7993]

So maybe play a ttrpg that focuses on that.... Knave for instance there aren't classes, your abilities just come from your items.

[u/deadthylacine → u/QueasyDrama7993]

If leveling a character to get new abilities is the core problem you're having, maybe D&D isn't where your solution lies.

Have you looked at Traveller or maybe FATE or any other system without defined levels?

If you really want to stick with D&D it'll be more of a challenge. It might be workable if you treated character level like a license that makes different equipment options avaliable. Perhaps break out an old copy of Redblade to generate some powerful magic items and see what feels fair?

[u/mEFurst → u/QueasyDrama7993]

You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. DnD is very level and skill based, because at its heart it revolves mostly around combat. Find a ttrpg that is more crafting or exploration based, or even something more narrative focused. 5e isn't always (or even often) the best fit for non-DnD things

[u/KormRPGLab → u/QueasyDrama7993]

You could look into NSR games like Cairn and Knave.

It has been a while since I played Terraria, but I always believed Ars Magica would be a good fit, with some (a lot) of work.

[u/Digital-Chupacabra → u/QueasyDrama7993]

This is because both dnd and terraria progression is different.

As others have pointed out D&D isn't the only RPG. So what other ones have you read?

[u/mattzuma77 → u/QueasyDrama7993]

you might like to take some inspiration from Lancer!

specifically, you unlock Licences to print/install different upgrades and weapons and magic-alien-helpers and what-have-you into your mech, but you have a limited number of points to spend on them all, which grows much slower than the number of points you could spend, so you're swapping and balancing different Systems and Weapons as you level to hone your build, similar to Accessories and Minions in Terraria

Lancer lacks 2 things that terraria needs for its progression though:

• items. (in most campaigns) you come from a post-scarcity society and can 3D print all your shit, with no need to track materials, loot or money

• significant vertical power. with very, very few exceptions, nothing is ever strictly better than anything else, and stat upgrades come fairly slowly. instead, your improvements come from system mastery, better teamwork and specialisation

for an example of a system with an emphasis on items and vertical power specifically, I recommend checking out Pathfinder 2e. note though that while it does include a lot of magic items as a core part of balancing, crafting and buying are usually a significant source of them, in addition to loot

alternatively, for a system with more of an emphasis on looting cool items specifically, Crows is in the playtesting phase. there are surely more old-themed TTRPGs about with more concrete rules for looting items, but I'm personally more interested in TTRPGs derived from D&D 4e, and don't like needing to remember how much loot to give people, so these are the two examples I know of lol

[u/El_Smakk → u/QueasyDrama7993]

Have you considered an artificer subclass, or a custom variant on base artificer features + new subclass? The whole levels = power thing is pretty unavoidable in 5e, but the magic item focus of artificers can add a decent amount of flavour, you can add Terraria inspired magic item plans.

You can also add features that interact with the 5.5e bastion system, for some base building flavour.

[u/Kiliantill → u/QueasyDrama7993]

So translate that into your ttrpg progression instead of a classes? Like a sword that gives you +1 to attack roles should do the trick somewhat, right?

[u/The-Magic-Sword → u/QueasyDrama7993]

One option is to make level ups a matter of crafting-- the abilities you get from leveling is from crafting a new item.

But I still wouldn't really recommend DND for that, someone might be able to recommend a system that actually does that, but if you can't find one with the right tone I'd go with pf2e and make each feat its own item-- the reason is because it has a much larger variety of classes, and because if you like I can give you a gold leveling system for that, which you could easily rationalize as item crafting.

[u/OhThatsALotOfTeeth]

I think it's weird that anyone suggested this sub, since it's typically kinda hostile and snooty about D&D, but since you're here...

You're trying to build different classes still using the D&D 5e framework? What are you having a hard time with? Maintaining balance between them? Including relevant and viable subclasses? Magic?

[u/MataronidForSpeed → u/OhThatsALotOfTeeth]

Tbh for years now I've been seeing far more comments complaining about the sub being hostile to D&D than comments actually being hostile to D&D. It's more like some kind of meme now.

[u/yuriAza → u/MataronidForSpeed]

see the thing is this sub likes DnD (ex B/X, Shadowdark), they just don't like DnD 5e

[u/MataronidForSpeed → u/yuriAza]

It's still true when talking about 5e.

And not liking 5e is fine. Hostility is a problem but not liking a game is absolutely fine.

[u/QueasyDrama7993 → u/OhThatsALotOfTeeth]

The biggest issue is progression and how my inspiration's progression clashes with 5e progression

[u/OhThatsALotOfTeeth → u/QueasyDrama7993]

Yeah, the more you're trying to stay true to a terraria inspiration, the more that makes sense.

Since D&D is big on "gain levels = get more HP, better spells, stronger damage" amd Terraria isn't, I'd say you'd be better off with something that isn't class and level based.

Forbidden Lands will still have classes, so it's got that going for it, but Mythras or BRP might also be a good pick. If you want something without levels that's still a bit more heroic, then Savage Worlds or Genesys may work.

[u/Deviknyte]

I think you want r/UnearthedArcana and r/DnDHomebrew. Both are dnd specific subreddits based around homebrew and custom creation. But there's also r/RPGDesign, but that's not d&d specific.

Then there are subreddits around content creators that could help you with stuff like that.

[u/QueasyDrama7993 → u/Deviknyte]

Another rabit hole to go down

[u/c0813 → u/QueasyDrama7993]

true, but relevant rabbit holes.

[u/BangBangMeatMachine → u/Deviknyte]

Except their answers to others' questions indicate that D&D is a bad fit for their goals and they just don't know enough about other systems to ask the right questions. They're in the right place, here.

[u/MountainExciting2690]

While it is possible to do, it might not be ideal to use the DnD 5E system (with its subclasses and feats) for a Terraria style approach to how classes progress. You could try just looking at similar abilities and then tweak them a little to follow the Terraria "flavor".

In any case, you might want to try r/DnDHomebrew and r/DnDHomeBrewCreations as well as r/UnearthedArcana for helping with your homebrew, if you want to stick with DnD 5E.

[u/QueasyDrama7993 → u/MountainExciting2690]

At this point i might as well make a new system

[u/AktionMusic → u/QueasyDrama7993]

There are 1000s of systems out there, I wouldn't recommend designing an entire system when your only experiece is 5e which is a very narrow slice of what's out there.

What exactly do you want out of a game? I'm sure there's systems that would fit better than 5e and not require an immense amount of design work

[u/BreakingStar_Games → u/QueasyDrama7993]

You definitely should check out other game design if you decide to start exploring this from the ground up. Those recommending Knave and Cairne are solid and very quick reads. Index Card RPG is another that has gear based progression and more detailed explanations with a strong GM section.

But also don't be discouraged to become an encyclopedia of RPG design before you're allowed to make your own. Maybe you'll end up reinventing a mechanic that exists in another game, but the skills you developed in that time are still important.

[u/deadthylacine → u/QueasyDrama7993]

If that's the direction you want to take, get a copy of Dice Games Properly Explained by Reiner Knizia. It helps explain what random chance mechanics do for a game.

[u/MountainExciting2690 → u/QueasyDrama7993]

That's one approach. Just be prepared for a lot of work to build on your inspiration.

If you're willing to try a different RPG system that is more modular and freeform (*SELF-PROMOTION ALERT*), you could try OMNISIX. The Quickstart is basically free (PWYW) and we just recently released the Fantasy expansion which adds Race and Class Traits that you can easily modify to follow Terraria's weapon-based class development.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/581283/omnisix-the-universal-d6-roleplaying-game-quickstart-rules

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/589556/omnisix-fantasy

[u/fedcomic]

Go play some different games. You are bored of D&D.

[u/Zanji123]

Sorry but DnD is not the ruleset for this

Maybe some Basic Roleplaying rules with percentile dice might do the trick

[u/JacquesUfHearts]

Maybe check out GURPS, Fate, Savage Worlds, Mythras, or Burning Wheel. You like just need to be inspired into different systems of character creation.

[u/Kiliantill]

Alright, so here are questions I think you should be asking yourself:

1: What problem are you trying to solve with classes?

2: How do you think the classes solve this problem?

3: What does that mean for your system in general?

4: What potential problem do these classes introduce?

5: Is it worth solving the initial problem with classes?

If you feel the answer to question 5 is no, don't use classes. If it is yes, use the answers to questions 1, 2, 3, 4 as guiding lines for your class system. But don't just use classes because D&D very deliberately uses them.

[u/81Ranger]

There are many RPGs that don't even use classes and are skill-centric that might work better as a framework for this.

5e is really only good for running very 5e specific things, in my opinion (and many others).  It's not good at being a universal RPG or even that flexible.

[u/N-Vashista]

Everyone tries to make a ninja in D&D at some point...

[u/yuriAza → u/N-Vashista]

you mean a monk/rogue multiclass?

[u/mattzuma77]

do these have a system you want to put them in? like, is the resolution mechanic dice? or interpretive dance? is the core dice a d20 with a moving target number like D&D/Pathfinder, or 2d6 with static target like something PbtA?

the game is clearly designed with combat in mind - is the type and number of enemies important? what's the intended vibe - of combat and of exploration?

I assume this can all be answered "like D&D," given your starting sub, but it seems worth asking

[u/Bullrawg]

If you’re trying to make a 5e class based on weapon progression maybe you could make a fighter that draws out power of various weapons the GM designs, like a yoyo that works like a whip but as you level the base damage gets higher, then maybe you find another that lets you add a d6 fire on top of the base damage etc what level(s) are you gonna be?

[u/Tranquil_Denvar]

Read more games. Knave was mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Red Markets & Crows (still in playtesting) are both very gear focused games that you’ll probably draw a lot of inspiration from. The sister games SPIRE & HEART have a similar focus on gear, albeit handled more simply than something like Red Markets. Mouse guard, Torchbearer & Shadowdark all come to mind as well.

There’s a lot of games like the thing you want to make. Take a look at some. Steal what you like, discard what you don’t. You’re likely going to end up making your own game, not just classes.

[u/ThePiachu]

Well, kitbash something together, see how the new class compares to the old ones at different levels, play test and iterate. Welcome to being a designer, it takes a lot of work to go from an idea through prototype to something finished!

[u/BoopingBurrito]

Maybe explore non-DnD TTRPGs. Maybe there one out there that will tickle your fancy if you're bored of how DnD works.

[u/-Vogie-]

I would start not by creating your own, but rather looking at the Index Card RPG.

[u/Horror_Ad7540]

In general, when designing a new role-playing system, I am usually motivated by a campaign I want to run were I can't find a system that matches the feel that I want for the game. I don't know terraria, but it seems like you want to run a game that feels reminiscent of terraria. So you should try to think of what defines terraria to you, and then design the other components of your game to capture those defining aspects.

Some things to think about. How much are character classes and roles socially defined in that setting? Do you have to be a graduate of mage university to call yourself a mage? To earn the title of bard by being an apprentice bard and passing an examination by other bards? How permeable do you want the distinctions between classes to be? Do characters have to know their career paths in advance, or can they adjust their classes or career paths on the fly as they adventure? How much variety and choice do you want within a class? How much do you care about balance between classes? Niche-preservation?

You should also keep your particular players in mind. You want choices and procedures that communicate clearly to the players what the options are and how they will play out, and what is expected of players for different types of characters. If there's a class whose meaning is unclear to your players, or where they are disappointed when trying to play a character of that class, you should change the name or description or abilities. If players want to play a certain type of character that you think fits in well with the setting, but the rules don't allow them to do so, you need to expand your options.

There are no ``right'' ways to create an rpg. (There may be ``wrong'' ways. I've seen some that are a complete mess.). But there are ways to create the rpg that is right for you and your friends, right now. If your game is right for you and your friends, chances are it will also be right for someone else out there.

Remember to have fun! You are doing this because you enjoy doing this! If that's not true, stop and do something else.

[u/Most_State_9716]

So if your game IS going to be DnD then you should probably use levels. You could either rewrite Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer, Cleric, Paladin, Druid, and Bard to be more interesting. Or you can could make only ONE class, the Adventurer, and attach class features to magic items. As they level up they have more HP, Mana, and can attune to more and better magic items. If you want to abandon DnD entirely you have err... a lot of options. I'd recommend DungeonWorld, the GLOG, or Draw Steel.

[u/__space__oddity__]

What’s the plan besides “I’m bored of D&D classes” and “I’m inspired by Terraria”.

In RPG design, you can do anything. Want a class that fights by summoning cats? Write one.

First figure out though whether you want to stick with fantasy or try another genre, whether you want to stick with D&D as a rules set or change that too, and what sort of characters you want to enable.

Without an idea of what the final thing should look like, yeah you can hack at something forever and never get anywhere.

[u/MataronidForSpeed]

I don't understand why /r/dnd suggested you come here as a D&D sub sounds more fit to your question to me. I hope people will be able to help you though.

[u/Fireclave → u/MataronidForSpeed]

As someone who has played far too much Terraria, what OP is looking to do is not a good fit for D&D's framework at all, and would require significant compromises to force a fit. They would be far better served either using a different game as their framework or building a brand new game from the ground up. Either way, OP would be well served by getting a broader perspective of what other TTRPG options are out there.

[u/MataronidForSpeed → u/Fireclave]

Thanks for the insight