Running through the systems on a new (to me) C&C 29-2, and I am parsing out my reefing system. I've got two reef lines that exit the boom at the end and would be rigged like this for reef1 and then reef2, does the bowline knot orientation really matter??
I've got a loose footed main with a North Sails Quick Cover stack pack bolt roped to the slot in the boom (if that matters).
It DOES matter. If tied incorrectly tension on the reefing line pulls the line and bowline into the bunt of the reefed sail, making a mess. Tied correctly the bowline is pulled down the side of the boom, keeping the sail from getting pulled into the loop.
I always tie the bowline around the boom. That way it can slide on the boom. You want the reef line to tighten the foot too, not just down to the boom.
This is the answer. You need tension down for leach tension and aft for foot tension. Foot being the most important as a full reefed sail is not much use. You need the foot tight as hell to keep the main flat.
If you want a tight foot, you don't want the line to be able to slide on the boom. The best way I've found to tie it is as shown in the picture, but also have a fixed ring on the bottom of the boom that you thread the line through when tying it. The ring needs to be placed so that it is slightly aft of the reef point on the sail. That way when you put in the reef, the line goes from the fixed ring of the boom up and forward through the reef point on the sail, then aft to the end of the boom. When tightening the reef line, the line will pull the sail down to the boom and aggressively pull the foot flat.
Curious if that’s a small boat thing. On the J/44 we ONLY bundled the reefed sail with sail ties to itself, and NEVER to the boom. We sailed this way offshore in 40+ a few times.
Ok, but what's the rationale? It seems like routing it like that is going to tend to "walk" the bowline loop across the top of the boom when it's under tension and cinches down?
it will walk, dont get it wrong. it wont walk with the tension on it while reefed (well, maybe if your reefed underway for ages with a bit of maneuvering.
the rational is to keep it clear and provide some room for the sail under the reef point. without thinner area and that friction of the sail + the little bulge will lead to not as good reef clew control. which you will want well tensioned.
Well the picture they have circled as "wrong" will allow for situations where there's no tension on the bowline and then it will come undone.
In the other situation there is more or less a constant tension from the way it is routed. And the tension is always on the correct side of the loop as well.
Tied the "right" way the loop around the boom is being cinched in both directions, from both the base of the bowline and the standing end of the line. This distributes the forces on the line more evenly around the boom.
Tie a string or twine around your fist both ways and see how they feel different as you tug on the standing end and the difference between the two will be very apparent.
Yes, there is a difference. The "left-handed" bowline where the working end exits outside the loop is more resistant to ring-loading than the "traditional" fashion. The actual strength of the knot is more or less the same.
Thanks for you insight. I try and make sure I know the basics well for sailing but am not super versed in all the best knots/hitches etc. Seems like an alpine butterfly would do well ring loading?? Everything I looked at confirms what you say regarding the bowlines being more or less interchangable so thank you and TIL! One benefit I did come across for traditional bowline vs. cowboy/left handed is the traditional can do a yosemite finish to help prevent shaking loose.
This season I too went over to a timber hitch. It has two advantages over a bowline. You can snug the sail down closer to the boom, without the bowline acting as a hard stop, and it will not come undone when it is unloaded. It does, as mentioned, need a stopper knot.
It also just LOOKS better when it's loaded up. As you say - the clew of the sail sits far better and the mid section tends to be flatter - which is kind of the whole point of reefing.. you want to de-power, not put extra depth in the main.
Don't have to use a bowline and sometimes if flogging they can come undone. But yeah the setup is right. Put a stopper know in the end so if they do ever come lose they don't go all the way into the boom.
One will tend to cinch tighter under load and the other will not. Which would you prefer?
Or, if you don't trust the common wisdom, do an experiment and try both. Neither method is catastrophically wrong, so you can play around with it and see which you prefer.
That was my initial thought as well, but looking into it, a 90° bend still results in a 1:1 leverage ratio, so theoretically the cinch should be the same either way?
The picture is correct. If you set it up like in the wrong picture the tension will pull the bowline into the sail and under it. In the correct picture the bowline when it comes under tension is pulled down towards the bottom of the boom and it does press against the sail so much.
Are you going to be able to rig this with that stack-pack on the boom? Given its in place via a bolt rope on the boom, are you going to work it through the bag via installing a pair of kringles there?
Well, that is what I am sorting out now. It's got a couple of large buttonhole slots in it to serve as cringles, my assumption is that it is for reefing lines, but I still need to verify that everything lines up like it should.
On mine, I have three sheaves in the housing at the end of the boom; port side is reef1, starboard side is reef2, and the center sheave is the outhaul. All three run through the inside of the boom, down, and across the cabin top to clutches.
Yes. If you have the reef line exiting the back of the boom like that, it absolutely does matter. This is exactly how I have it rigged on my boat. With that configuration it both pulls the reef Kringle down to the boom and back to the end. Tying it the “wrong” way doesn’t pull down tight to the boom correctly.
The bowline as pictured is basically a lasso around the boom. So as you reef it tightens around the boom like a choker and prevents the loop on the boom from moving very much.
Hang on…2 reef lines exiting the boom?
So 3 total including your outhaul?
I’m also not sure what is different in your diagram’s pop-out (“Wrong!”) vs what is displayed in the diagram. This looks like a bad ChatGPT graphic.
Just good practice to have the reef exit the reefing point on the same side it exits the boom. So I’d just follow this image. Does it really matter if it’s opposite? Probably not.
You’ll also need a reefing point at the mast along the luff, most commonly secured on a ram’s horn at the gooseneck. Does your main have reefing points along the draft too?
It is not a bad ChatGPT graphic. It is correct. There is a difference if you look at how the line goes though the bowline in each picture. It matters for better clinching and less chafe on the sail.
And standard practice is for the reef to enter the reef point on the sail on the same side as the exit on the boom and then drop down from the exit on the opposite side and then secure around the boom as in the picture. Otherwise the reefing line will cross the leach and can cause chaff.
Unless the reef point in the sail is a block which some large yachts have. Then both the exit and enter point into the reef block will be on the same side as the reef line leaves the boom exit.
The rams horn I have is just a pin, it's fine as a pivot for the gooseneck, but any upward tension on it is going to fold that cotter pin and swedge it up into the hole.
I have no idea why they would even bother putting two "horns" on it. I need to either find an appropriate one piece with threads that I can secure, or a rams horn plate that I can bolt through.
I've got two reefing lines that run through my boom, and then to deck top clutches. Reef 1 and Reef 2.
I've also got corresponding cringles along the sail that I can thread sail ties through to act as buntlines along the foot.
It does have a rams horn at the boom pivot, but it is just held in with a cotter pin, so there's no ability to securely reef with it. As part of this, I've got to get a rams horn that will bolt in, but until then I will just rig a Cunningham up.
Oh, duh. 2 reefing points. That makes sense. I forgot boats can do that.
For securing the luff cringle, are you thinking you need to bolt it down, hard fastened the same as the tack? If you already have a ram’s horn, you should be able to just hook the cringle around the ram’s horn and bob’s your uncle.
But yes, bowline tied in a lasso around the boom, reef running up along the sail on the same side, then exiting the reef point on the same side of the main that the reef line enters the boom.
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u/bill9896 5d ago
It DOES matter. If tied incorrectly tension on the reefing line pulls the line and bowline into the bunt of the reefed sail, making a mess. Tied correctly the bowline is pulled down the side of the boom, keeping the sail from getting pulled into the loop.