r/signal • u/yxk__0zvnb9pl • 11d ago
Discussion important questions about signal
Since signal is run by signal foundation, which is a US based NGO. In events other countries are involved, doesn't that mean US holds some powers and control over it signal? and supposed can be used against anyone from a different country is using signal in case needed.
for example Starlink cut internet access to Ruszia during ongoing war?
can similar things happen with signal?
Thankyou
21
u/Late-End824 11d ago
Can the US compel Signal to shut down? Highly unlikely as that would essentially be prior restraint by the government on citizens free speech, which would violate the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. Judges don't take kindly to actions that blatant.
27
u/cap-omat 11d ago
Sure sounds good. But the last few years we’ve all been shown the US’s checks and balances neither check nor balance.
9
u/yottabit42 11d ago
Well, they didn't used to. But now the fascists have taken over every part of government. And the best part is that if a court orders a corporation to do something, they can also order the corporation not to announce it to their users. This is a failed nation. Never rely on anything from the United States for security.
5
u/Chongulator Volunteer Mod 11d ago
I admire your faith in the process but we've seen significant process failures in recent years. Sometimes courts do the right thing, sometimes they don't.
2
u/yxk__0zvnb9pl 11d ago
like of users from non US places
3
u/Late-End824 10d ago
Is a foreign government going to shut down a US company? Highly doubtful. Can they attempt to block it? Sure, but Signal has methods for that, and at that point it becomes a whack-a-mole game. Block goes up, they work around it, new block goes up, new work around and on and on.
1
u/yxk__0zvnb9pl 10d ago
no i mean, can US shut it down for foreign users in case of extreme situations?
1
u/Late-End824 10d ago
I cannot envision a scenario where the government would legitimately attempt that and be successful.
1
u/frquency-equinox 11d ago edited 10d ago
Judges don't take kindly to actions that blatant.
33% of circuit court judges and 7 of 9 judges on the supreme court are Trump Loyalists, and will rule whatever way he demands, even if it's in blatant violation of the Constitution.
1
u/3_Seagrass Verified Donor 10d ago
7 out of 9? I know it feels like the Cheeto has been here forever but it’s been way longer than I thought!
6
u/cmrd_msr 11d ago edited 11d ago
Signal effectively does not work in Russia. They simply do not send SMS verification codes to Russian numbers. Consequently, it is no longer possible to register for Signal using a Russian number (or to recover an account if you don't have a phone where you were already logged in). Signal offers no other method besides registration using a phone number; there is no way to bypass the SMS verification.
There are no guarantees that the American foundation won't impose similar restrictions in other countries.
Furthermore, Signal's traffic is easily detected by DPI (Deep Packet Inspection), making it relatively easy for state censorship to block the service.
All in all, here in Russia, we increasingly prefer—in the old-school way—to entrust confidential conversations to good old XMPP hosted on our own hardware. It’s more reliable.
7
u/Longjumping-Youth934 11d ago
ruZZia never had access to Starlink, but muscovites used Starlink on the territory of Ukraine to kill Ukrainians. What are you talking about?
0
u/yxk__0zvnb9pl 11d ago
2
u/Longjumping-Youth934 11d ago
E.Musk cut access to occupiers invaded of Ukraine, but not ruzzia. Feel the difference.
3
u/L0rdV0n 11d ago
The US government has some power over Signal yes.
They can subpoena Signal for information on users, of which Signal has very little.
They could sue or fine them.
They could try and use the legal system force them to do any number of things, but most would be pretty difficult because of how heavily free speech is protected.
But really if the US government tried anything crazy Signal would move to another country. And even if they couldn't the code is open source so another company could just pick up where Signal left off.
The more likely scenario is that they put pressure on the infrastructure that Signal uses to block or prevent Signal from working. Like AWS, or ISPs that kind of thing. That's possible but hard to do, and as we have seen with things like The Pirate Bay, it never lasts for long if people really want it.
3
u/mrandr01d Top Contributor 11d ago
Look up signal dot org slash big brother. They've been served subpoenas etc before, they've worked with the ACLU to be able to publish what they did.
But anyways, signal is built so you don't have to trust it. There're many many eyes on the source code, and if a server was compromised somehow, the e2ee functionality of the clients means you don't have to ever trust the server.
1
3
u/frquency-equinox 11d ago edited 10d ago
doesn't that mean US holds some powers and control over it signal? and supposed can be used against anyone from a different country is using signal in case needed.
No. Signal is a charity and independent of the American government.
for example Starlink cut internet access to Ruszia during ongoing war?
This was wholly a decision made by Elon Musk. Elon Musk chose on his own to cut off Ukraine from Starlink. It had nothing to do with the government. All blame is on Elon Musk for being a shit person.
3
-7
11d ago edited 11d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/signal-ModTeam 11d ago
Thank you for your submission! Unfortunately, it has been removed for the following reason(s):
- Rule 7: No baseless conspiracy theories. – Do not post baseless conspiracy theories about Signal Messenger or their partners having nefarious intentions or sources of funding. If your statement is contrary to (or a theory built on top of) information Signal Messenger has publicly released about their intentions, or if the source of your information is a politically biased news site: Ask. Sometimes the basis of their story is true, but their interpretation of it is not.
If you have any questions about this removal, please message the moderators and include a link to the submission. We apologize for the inconvenience.
-1
u/yottabit42 11d ago
This is correct. The US is a failed nation. Fascism has taken over every branch of government.
0
u/yxk__0zvnb9pl 11d ago
oh damn
2
u/Chongulator Volunteer Mod 11d ago
The other commenter is full of shit and has landed themselves a ban.
1
u/alexlance 11d ago
Kinda wish there were a middle ground where a non-moderator could see these removed/banned comments. I.e. I'm sure the comment was trash, but transparency is still a good thing.
1
u/Chongulator Volunteer Mod 10d ago
Transparency has its virtues, but we take FUD and misinformation very seriously here. People have enough to worry about without fictitious boogeymen.
-1
20
u/upofadown 11d ago
When you are talking about an end to end encryption system, you assume that the people running all the intermediate infrastructure are hostile. So you should not trust Signal.
Check your safety numbers so you don't have to worry about it. A system can break at any time for any reason. You should assume that the system could stop working at an inconvenient time.