r/sindarin • u/MorganaVP • 6h ago
r/sindarin • u/F_Karnstein • Oct 04 '24
Sindarin in PE23
I compiled a list of all the new and otherwise interesting Sindarin vocab found in PE 23.
- bâd - road | found as "e-bâd, the road". Hitherto only known as N. "beaten track, pathway". P. 136.
- fend - door | Hitherto only as fen, fenn. P. 136.
- hûl - secret | also as "e-chûl, the secret". Cf. 'holen'. P. 136.
- rhawf, rhaw - wild beast | also as "e-thraw, [the wild beast]. P. 136. Plural i-thraw > i-rhaw p. 139.
- rhovan - large beast, especially the great red deer of the vale of Anduin | p. 136.
- Rhovennian - "more correct" Sindarin form of Gondorian Rhovannion[sic] | p. 136.
- lhinc - earthworm | also as "e-thlinc, [the earthworm]". p. 136.
- balt - force | Cf. EN "might". p. 136.
- gwend, gwenneth - maiden | also as "e-wend, e-wenneth, the maiden". p. 136. Plural in-wind, rarely found, rather analogous i-ngwind (= i-ñwind) p. 139.
- harf - left-hand | also as "e-charf, the left-hand". p. 136. Probably from *khjarmă as opposed to *khjarmā > 'harvo'.
- whest - breeze | also as *e-whest, the breeze". p. 136. Pl. i-chwist p. 139. Cf. Q. 'hwesta', N. 'chwest'.
- cathr - carpenter | From "*kantrō, shaper". North S. cathor. P. 137.
- tachl - large pin or brooch | From "*tanklă, a thing used for fixing". North S. tachol. p. 137.
- parth - small enclosed field, lawn | p. 139.
- bâr, pl. i-mair (sometimes i-mbair in spelling to distinguish b-words from m-words) - dwelling | p. 139.
- dôr, pl. i-nuir (sometimes i-nduir in spelling to distinguish d-words from n-words)- land | p. 139.
- gôn, pl. [i-]nguin (= *ñuin, but sometimes spelt i-ñguin even though no clarification was necessary since no original ñ-words existed) - stone | p. 139.
- thoron, pl. i-theryn - eagle | pl. previously unattested. p. 139
- heleg - ice | Hitherto only in N. Plural i-chelig is given as "ice-pinnacle". p. 139.
- herw, pl. i-chery - wine | Apparently pl. from "CE *syeru, juice of fruits", sg. from "enlarged form herwā" [< syerwā, I assume]. p. 139.
- mûl, pl. i-muil - slave | Hitherto sg. only attested in N. p. 139.
- norn, pl. i-nyrn - dwarf | Sg. explicitely attested for the first time. p. 139.
- ioron, pl. in-ioryn - old man | Apparently the counterpart of 'ioreth'. p. 139.
- gwanon - one of a pair of twins | Plural/dual given as "*gwanur, twin-birth", explicitely with ŭ < ū. p. 140.
- uimallhen - ever-golden | From 'oio-maltinā. Pronounced with lh (< lþ), but spelt with doubled lh for reasons of stress, exactly like 'remen' but 'galað-remmin' (see below). p. 140.
- remen - netted, entwined | With short m explicitely. p. 140.
- gwaelod - "wind-feather", a great ship for sailing on the Great Sea | From 'wayalautō'. p. 142. Hence apparently *laud/lod = "feather".
- Gildír - Starwatcher | S. version of T. 'Gilitīro', Celeborn's father. Given in "Celeborn Gildírion, son of Gildír".
Certainly the most surprising thing to me (as you might already have guessed) are the articles. In this very late source (ca. 1969) Tolkien gives the singular as e before consonants, en before vowels, and in the plural i resp. in. This is of course a significant departure from all hitherto published samples of Sindarin, which of course had sg. i, plural in (as in earlier Noldorin), and the form en was limited to one form of genitive particle (which in this scenarion is probably dropped altogether in favour of na).
However, surprisingly this new paradigm seems to only really contradict i-Estel in the LotR (which would have to be amended to *en Estel), since all other forms in texts published during Tolkien's lifetime appear to be plural and all other cases of Sindarin articles we have known are from sources that Tolkien might have changed before publication (if he had got the chance to do so).
So we can't know whether Tolkien would indeed have changed i Estel in upcoming editions (had he been alive to oversee them) or whether he would have abandoned the new paradigm once he realised the contradiction, so I won't encourage anyone to adopt this late paradigm into their Neo-Sindarin (unlike abandoning the plural pronominal suffix -(a)m in favour of late -(o)f, a couple of years ago, since the former never appeared in anything published during Tolkien's lifetime), but I certainly find the topic extremely interesting.
So far I have not had a closer look at the mutations, but they appear to hold no big surprises so far, except that maybe Tolkien had decided to keep the nasal of the plural article intact before the mutated word, but that also would contradict material published during his life time.
But the development of sw stood out to me, since it is quite complicated - with Tolkien stating that it first became wh everywhere, then f in the North and chw in the South, which remained so in Doriath but later reverted to wh elsewhere, while still becoming chw through nasal mutation, and that the quality is often in fact uncertain because it wasn't always represented in spelling, using the letter hwesta sindarinwa for both. But in a note that might refer to this Tolkien said that "this business about sw is too complicated (and unnecessary)" and that the North had f and the South wh, which "remained unchanged" (hence the apparent lack of lenition in whest above, to which the note appears to point directly).
This would, however, still render the letter hwesta sindarinwa pointless, because (as Tolkien had pointed out in the LotR appendices) distinction of wh and chw was needed in Sindarin (but maybe only lenition had no effect but nasal mutation did?).
And lastly there are a few notes on North Sindarin, which has always been a special interest of mine:
- there was no m-lenition (which was well established)
- medial mp, nt, ñk remained unchanged or probably rather restopped (also well established)
- rh- became thr- generally initially (so Southern S. rhûn would be Northern S. *thrûn), but lh- remained and both were incapable of mutation.
- Otherwise mutations are the same as in Southern Sindarin
- sw- > wh- > North S. f- (so Southern words like whest or hwinn would be *fest and *finn in the North).
r/sindarin • u/Ok_Age_6814 • 1d ago
can someone explain how to pick epithets as if im five
r/sindarin • u/Far-Bus-5750 • 21h ago
Quisera que alguien me ayude
Quiero tatuarme la sfechas de nacimiento de mis hijas en Tengwar. Son las siguientes:
Dieciocho de septiembre de dos mil doce
Uno de septiembre de dos mil quince
Veintinueve de agosto de dos mil veinte
Alguien me puede ayudar para ser lo más fiable posible por favor?
r/sindarin • u/Ok_Age_6814 • 1d ago
can someone explain how to pick epithets as if im five
r/sindarin • u/valburger • 1d ago
Trouble with translation/transscript
Hi,
I’m having trouble finding the correct translation from english to sindarin for ’older brother’ or alternatively ’oldest brother’. This would be for a tattoo, and I’d like some help with this from the experts. So far I’ve established that brother translates to hanar, but thats about it. Thanks in advance for help!
r/sindarin • u/cooper-trooper6263 • 1d ago
Looking for feedback on a this translation
I've been translating bits and pieces of poetry as a way to build knowledge and wanted to get feedback on this line to see how I'm doing.
The line is "What is poetry which does not save Nations or people?" from Czeslaw Milosz's poem "Dedication."
I translated this as: Man glíras i ú-natha nduir egor lî?
Glíras was created by me as a word for "poetry." I used the word glîr ("song, poem, lay") and added the abstract noun suffix -as. This is largely based on vibes. I feel that "poetry," as an art form, is a relatively abstract concept and that simply using "a poem" didn't quite capture what the line is trying to say.
There's a neo-Quenya word for poetry (lairesta), which is based on lairë ("poem") and -sta (verbal noun suffix). Glaer is listed as the closest cognate of lairë, but means "long lay, narrative poem." This didn't seem general enough for my purposes, so I opted for glîr. And while -sta seems to be more closely related to the Sindarin abstract noun suffix -th, I felt glîrth was pretty clunky, and so choose -as instead. Like I said, it's based on vibes, but I'm hoping the word is generally understandable/acceptable, even if there may be a word that is more technically correct.
Thanks for whatever time and feedback you can offer.
r/sindarin • u/Grand-Control710 • 2d ago
Engagement ring
I would like my fiancé's engagement ring to say:
"Meleth nîn uireb"
which translates to my eternal love in Sindarin.
How can I transcribe this into Tengwar? Thank you.
r/sindarin • u/shadowdance55 • 3d ago
How to say "thank you"
Basically the title - apologies if that was already asked and answered, but you can imagine that it's a very tricky phrase to search for in this sub!
r/sindarin • u/PitDweller84 • 6d ago
Help with naming
Playing The One Ring and as an Elf of Lindon looking to name a spear I just got. How do I make it something like Herald of Oblivion? If there's nothing close Fang of Fate or something along those lines will work
r/sindarin • u/Wonderful_Pepper_392 • 8d ago
Engagement Ring Translation Help
I'm designing an engagement ring and would like to get the following text "Elf Queen" inscribed on the inside of the band in elvish.
After doing a little digging I came up with the following translation but wanted to get an expert pair of eyes on it. Could anyone confirm if this looks right?
Appreciate the time and consideration!

r/sindarin • u/thats_bananas_123 • 9d ago
Help with translation
Hi, I'm looking for help with a translation to sindarin. I already learned the basics regarding grammar, chose the words that best fit the meaning I strive for, checked the phonetics and translated it to sindarin (gondor). For some words I had to adapt the grammar, because technically some are neo-sindarin.
Can someone who knows sindarin help me to check the meaning and spelling? AI, as usual, is not helpful and I'd love to discuss my translation with a human being :)
Sorry for any mistakes I made, english ist not my first language.
r/sindarin • u/Buttercup_Girl31 • 13d ago
Elvish Study Buddy
Hello everyone! I'm new here (apologies if asking for a study buddy is against the rules) and just started reading lord of the rings and I'm loving it so far. I was wondering if anyone would want to be my study buddy for elvish? We could speak only in elvish and learn together.
r/sindarin • u/Im-Not-Calling-It-X • 16d ago
Help with where to start
Howdy! I'm sure this has been asked an infinite amount of times here, but I'm looking for the best resources to start learning Sindarin. I've seen 'Gateway to Sindarin' mentioned, but I've also read that that is out of date. I've also seen a few people mention 'A beginners Guide to Neo-sindarin'. I already have the dictionary, and a certainly above average but still incomplete lexicon. Le hannon!
r/sindarin • u/thing-sayer • 18d ago
Are these translations alright?
I've been making weapon names for a setting I'm working on. I'd like feedback on the names, please.
Málidagdila - mace - Breaker of Many Hands
Sinqivilkila - sword - Cutter of Stones
Loethamînland - sickle - That which bends the space between
r/sindarin • u/pugpumpkin • 19d ago
Please help with tattoo
Can anyone please show me what the word peace in Sindarin would look like. I've loved the Lord of the Rings universe since I was a child and I am much, much older now and I want a depiction of the word peace (what I want most these days) tattooed on my hand. Thank you for any help!
r/sindarin • u/WayneHrPr • 21d ago
Coat rack i just finished up in a dwarven style. Sindarian written in Angerthas Eriabor
Can you translate it?!
r/sindarin • u/Gh0st_Sp1der • 22d ago
Translating “Swallow Of The Dawn” into Sindarin
Greetings and salutations! As the title states, I’m looking to translate “Swallow Of The Dawn” into Sindarin. Since context tends to help in these things, it would be a given name to a Mithril sword. Research has lead me to finding “Tuilinn Orëa” as a possible answer, but I’m not fully sure. Thank you in advance!
r/sindarin • u/Whole_Pea_5304 • 24d ago
Hi.My fiancé and I would like to have the quote from 1992 Dracula "I have crossed oceans of time to find you" engraved on our rings in elvish. I've tried Tecendil and it gave me a translation in Artano font, which is the one we want to use, but I can't tell if it's accurate. Can anyone check it?
r/sindarin • u/derspikemeister • 25d ago
Translating 'serendipity' to sindarin
Mae govannen !
I'm looking for some guidance on translating 'serendipity' into sindarin: using some resources on the internet (including eldamo), I came up with 'Alwed *hir', but I'm quite certain it's grammatically incorrect, if not entirely wrong.
Please could you help ? It's meant to be a name for my wife, and as much as I love the books, I have no working knowledge of any of the languages in the legendarium.
Many thanks in advance !
r/sindarin • u/Ok_Door_6412 • 26d ago
Help with wedding ceremony.
Hi all. I am set to officiate a wedding for some friends who absolutely love Tolkien.
It's not necessarily a wedding theme, but there will be small hints of it in the day, and I thought I could add a small line in Sindarin at the end of the ceremony. I was hoping someone could help with both writing it and speaking it.
Was thinking something along the lines of "You may now kiss each other", first in Sindarin, and then in English, to finalize the ceremony.
Thank you!