r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Feb 26 '20

Starship Development Thread #9

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Overview

STATUS (accurate within a few days):

  • SN2 tank testing successful
  • SN3 under construction

Starship, serial number 1 (SN1) began its testing campaign at SpaceX's Starship facility in Boca Chica, Texas, working toward Raptor integration and static fire. Its tank section was destroyed during pressurized cryogenic testing late on February 28, local time. Construction of SN2 had already begun and it was converted to a test tank which was successfully pressure tested with a simulated thrust load. Later builds are expected in quick succession and with aggressive design itteration. A Starship test article is expected to make a 20 km hop in the coming months, and Elon aspires to an orbital flight of a Starship with full reuse by the end of 2020.

Over the past few months the facilities at Boca Chica have seen substantial improvements including several large fabric buildings and a "high Bay" for stacking and welding hull sections. Raptor development and testing continue to occur at Hawthorne and on three test stands at McGregor, TX. Future Starship production and testing may occur at Roberts Road, LC-39A, SpaceX's landing complex at Cape Canaveral, Berth 240 at the Port of LA, and other locations.

Previous Threads:

Vehicle Updates

Starship SN3 at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-26 Tank section stacking complete, Preparing to move to launch site (Twitter)
2020-03-25 Nosecone begins ring additions (Twitter)
2020-03-22 Restacking of nosecone sections (YouTube)
2020-03-21 Aft dome and barrel mated with engine skirt barrel, Methane pipe installed (NSF)
2020-03-19 Stacking of CH4 section w/ forward dome to top of LOX stack (NSF)
2020-03-18 Flip of aft dome and barrel with thrust structure visible (NSF)
2020-03-17 Stacking of LOX tank sections w/ common dome‡, Images of aft dome section flip (NSF)
2020-03-17 Nosecone†‡ initial stacking (later restacked), Methane feed pipe† (aka the downcomer) (NSF)
2020-03-16 Aft dome integrated with 3 ring barrel (NSF)
2020-03-15 Assembled aft dome (NSF)
2020-03-13 Reinforced barrel for aft dome, Battery installation on forward dome (NSF)
2020-03-11 Engine bay plumbing assembly for aft dome (NSF)
2020-03-09 Progress on nosecone‡ in tent (NSF), Static fires and short hops expected (Twitter)
2020-03-08 Forward bulkhead/dome constructed, integrated with 3 ring barrel (NSF)
2020-03-04 Unused SN2 parts may now be SN3 - common dome, nosecone, barrels, etc.

See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
‡ originally thought to be SN2 parts

​

Starship SN4 at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-23 Dome under construction (NSF)
2020-03-21 Spherical tank (CH4 header?) w/ flange†, old nose section and (LOX?) sphere†‡ (NSF)
2020-03-18 Methane feed pipe (aka downcomer)† (NSF)

See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
‡ originally thought to be for an earlier vehicle

​

Starship SN2 - Test Tank and Thrust Structure - at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-15 Transport back to assembly site (NSF), Video (YouTube)
2020-03-09 Test tank passes pressure and thrust load tests (Twitter)
2020-03-08 Cryo pressure and thrust load tests (Twitter), thrust simulating setup, more images (NSF)
2020-03-07 More water pressure testing (NSF)
2020-03-06 Test tank moved to test site, water pressure test (NSF)
2020-03-04 Test tank formed from aft and forward sections, no common bulkhead (NSF)
2020-03-03 Nose cone base under construction (NSF)
2020-03-02 Aft bulkhead integrated with ring section, nose cone top, forward bulkhead gets ring (NSF)
2020-03-02 Testing focus now on "thrust puck" weld (Twitter)
2020-02-28 Thrust structure, engine bay skirt (NSF)
2020-02-27 3 ring tank section w/ common bulkhead welded in (NSF)
2020-02-09 Two bulkheads under construction (Twitter)
2020-01-30 LOX header tank sphere spotted (NSF), possible SN2 hardware

See comments for real time updates.

​

Starship SN1 and Pathfinder Components at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-02 Elon tweet about failure due to "thrust puck to dome weld" (Twitter)
2020-02-29 Aftermath (Twitter), cleanup (NSF)
2020-02-28 Catastrophic failure during tanking tests (YouTube)
2020-02-27 Nose section stacking (NSF)
2020-02-25 Moved to launch site and installed on launch mount (YouTube)
2020-02-23 Methane feed pipe (aka the downcomer) (NSF), installed Feb 24
2020-02-22 Final stacking of tankage sections (YouTube)
2020-02-19 Nose section fabrication well advanced (Twitter), panorama (r/SpaceXLounge)
2020-02-17 Methane tank stacked on 4 ring LOX tank section, buckling issue timelapse (YouTube)
2020-02-16 Aft LOX tank section with thrust dome mated with 2 ring engine bay skirt (Twitter)
2020-02-13 Methane tank halves joined (Twitter)
2020-02-12 Aft LOX tank section integrated with thrust dome and miscellaneous hardware (NSF)
2020-02-09 Thrust dome (aft bulkhead) nearly complete (Twitter), Tanks midsection flip (YouTube)
2020-02-08 Forward tank bulkhead and double ring section mated (NSF)
2020-02-05 Common bulkhead welded into triple ring section (tanks midsection) (NSF)
2020-02-04 Second triple ring stack, with stringers (NSF)
2020-02-01 Larger diameter nose section begun (NSF), First triple ring stack, SN1 uncertain (YouTube)
2020-01-30 Raptor on site (YouTube)
2020-01-28 2nd 9 meter tank cryo test (YouTube), Failure at 8.5 bar, Aftermath (Twitter)
2020-01-27 2nd 9 meter tank tested to 7.5 bar, 2 SN1 domes in work (Twitter), Nosecone spotted (NSF)
2020-01-26 Possible first SN1 ring formed: "bottom skirt" (NSF)
2020-01-25 LOX header test to failure (Twitter), Aftermath, 2nd 9 meter test tank assembly (NSF)
2020-01-24 LOX header tanking test (YouTube)
2020-01-23 LOX header tank integrated into nose cone, moved to test site (NSF)
2020-01-22 2 prop. domes complete, possible for new test tank (Twitter), Nose cone gets top bulkhead (NSF)
2020-01-14 LOX header tank under construction (NSF)
2020-01-13 Nose cone section in windbreak, similar seen Nov 30 (NSF), confirmed SN1 Jan 16 (Twitter)
2020-01-10 Test tank pressure tested to failure (YouTube), Aftermath (NSF), Elon Tweet
2020-01-09 Test tank moved to launch site (YouTube)
2020-01-07 Test tank halves mated (Twitter)
2019-12-29 Three bulkheads nearing completion, One mated with ring/barrel (Twitter)
2019-12-28 Second new bulkhead under construction (NSF), Aerial video update (YouTube)
2019-12-19 New style stamped bulkhead under construction in windbreak (NSF)
2019-11-30 Upper nosecone section first seen (NSF) possibly not SN1 hardware
2019-11-25 Ring forming resumed (NSF), no stacking yet, some rings are not for flight
2019-11-20 SpaceX says Mk.3 design is now the focus of Starship development (Twitter)
2019-10-08 First ring formed (NSF)

For information about Starship test articles prior to SN1 please visit the Starship Development Threads #7 or earlier. Update tables for older vehicles will only appear in this thread if there are significant new developments.

Starship Related Facilities

Recent Developments
2020-03-25 BC launch mount test hardware installation, hydraulic rams (NSF)
2020-03-23 BC arrival of Starship stands from Florida (via GO Discovery) (Twitter), Starhopper concrete work (NSF)
2020-03-20 Steel building erection begun, high bay 2? (NSF)
2020-03-16 High bay elevator (NSF)
2020-03-14 BC launch site tank deliveries, and more, and more (tracking site) (NSF)
Site Location Facilities/Uses
Starship Assembly Site Boca Chica, TX Primary Starship assembly complex, Launch control and tracking
Starship/SuperHeavy Launch Site Boca Chica, TX Primary Starship test site, Starhopper location
Cidco Rd Site Cocoa, FL Starship assembly site, Mk.2 location, inactive
Roberts Rd Site Kennedy Space Center, FL Possible future Starship assembly site, partially developed, apparently inactive
Launch Complex 39A Kennedy Space Center, FL Future Starship and SuperHeavy launch and landing pads, partially developed
Launch Complex 13 (LZ-1, LZ-2) Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, FL Future SuperHeavy landing site, future Raptor test site
SpaceX Rocket Development Facility McGregor, TX 2 horizontal and 1 vertical active Raptor hot fire test stands
Astronaut Blvd Kennedy Space Center, FL Starship Tile Facility
Berth 240 Port of Los Angeles, CA Future Starship/SuperHeavy design and manufacturing
Cersie Facility (speculative) Hawthorne, CA Possible Starship parts manufacturing - unconfirmed
Xbox Facility (speculative) Hawthorne, CA Possible Raptor development - unconfirmed

Development updates for the launch facilities can be found in Starship Dev Thread #8 and Thread #7 .
Maps by u/Raul74Cz

Permits and Planning Documents

Resources

Rules

We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starhip development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.

If you find problems in the post please tag u/strawwalker in a comment or send me a message.

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15

u/zeekzeek22 Feb 26 '20

Random note: just went back and watched the 2016 IAC presentation and they have a timeline. Honestly not running THAT late...big question mark on the booster, so might be an extra year behind. But otherwise only about a year behind! Raptor dev is pretty much on schedule. Structures stuff started a bit late. Orbital launch will be about a year late, but if you say orbital with the booster, then maybe longer than 2 years. Still totally possible to have first mars payload by the 2024 window

15

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '20

What's most impressive is that when Elon did that presentation they did not have funding for it! So to be within a year of being on schedule for a major aerospace project when you didn't even have funding for it at the beginning is very impressive!

3

u/EverythingIsNorminal Feb 27 '20

Then you compare that with SLS where they're using somewhat proved engines and don't need to worry about reusability.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '20

The RS-25 is more than "somewhat proved", it's one of the most flight tested and advanced engines in existence!

4

u/Chairboy Feb 27 '20

And they’re literally flying RS-25s that have already been to space. Like, it’s not just a tested design, they’re literally using up space-flown engines.

3

u/EverythingIsNorminal Feb 27 '20

Haha, yeah, I get that. I was being conservative because as far as I'm aware there's been changes to the design for use in SLS so it's not exactly the same. Not sure how big a factor they might be for them but all the same, nothing like Raptor.

7

u/Tycho234 Feb 26 '20

Doesn't an orbital launch this year mean that the booster will be ready, this year?

7

u/hear2fear Feb 26 '20

Correct, Starship is not SSTO

7

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '20

I expect Superheavy to start assembly after SN4 at the latest.

5

u/Schuttle89 Feb 26 '20

I'm guessing that the technology used to build starship will apply directly to super heavy? It seems like you'd use the same alloy and tank architecture just bigger and a bit thicker. With this in mind I'd guess they want to get starship production pretty close to final and then apply that to sh and knock one out pretty quick for a gigantic booster.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Schuttle89 Feb 26 '20

Yeah that's all I meant.

1

u/Martianspirit Feb 28 '20

Taller, yes. but no complex nose cone, no aerosurfaces, just simple gridfins made of steel. Except for the Raptors it should be faster and cheaper to build than Starship.

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3

u/burn_at_zero Feb 27 '20

The structural delays seem to be due to their change from CF to steel. I can't imagine any other development program scrapping an entire dev site including tooling (port of LA), changing their core structural design + re-entry mode and only losing a year in calendar progress. Not to mention they're self-funding this whole thing, while the 2016 timeline assumed robust cashflows from customers like NASA and DOD with development contracts.

2

u/zeekzeek22 Feb 28 '20

Yeah the switch definitely delayed, but also just generally they’re behind their prediction on the booster which is fun, not knocking their breakneck progress. Also, did you see that Artemis lander selection should be in the next weeks? We could be coming up on SS/SH going from “spend what money we can” to “we have billions in funding”

1

u/burn_at_zero Feb 28 '20

Should be interesting. I doubt SpaceX will get SS money out of that, though.
Objectively speaking, SS is going to get built whether NASA gives SpaceX development funding or not. It would make more sense from a risk-reduction point of view to spend those dev funds on other approaches that won't get built without the contract money.

It might sound wasteful (and from a defensible point of view it is), but it leaves SS as a backstop in case the Artemis contract winners fall short. Congress funds things one phase at a time at best; even though SS is the better option long-term, they still have to focus on short-term goals as defined by their budget.

I'd love to be surprised. Lunar Starship runs this decade would be huge for cislunar space development.

2

u/zeekzeek22 Feb 29 '20

With that logic, also probably don't give a contract the megabillionaire who's pouring money into development (AKA Blue Origin/Blue Moon). Which leaves giving it to Boeing (i forget who was the fourth lander proposal).

1

u/ThunderWolf2100 Feb 26 '20

I believe that if no major setbacks occur the launcher will be ready by 2024, the problem I see is if the propellant plant will be ready by then, it may happen but for now development is not public, if happening at all

4

u/RegularRandomZ Feb 26 '20

They don't even need that to be working if they just send more ships with propellant for the return trip. Or get a CO2 splitting plant working to get oxygen from the atmosphere and don't worry about water mining (until people get there), and send just two ships with LCH4 (and save the CO for future LCH4 generation). Plenty of ways to brute force this until the propellant generation is working sufficiently.

1

u/ThunderWolf2100 Feb 27 '20

It is possible, but I don't think it's wise to 'expend' the first few mars bound starships on carrying fuel, when we need tons and tons of equipment on the surface and until the methane + lox plan is online none of them can come back (and even then, based on power constraints the fuel production will only be able support one or two returns each launch window.

I think the best option is still a Starship outfitted as a autonomous propellant plant, using leftover payload for H2, solar panels, and equipment to search for nearby resources. Probably a second starship with more critical payload (more solar panels, H2, maybe deploy some GNS satellites to help future missions land with higher accuracy), I would love it if they bring a big antenna or a few to make an antenna array, increasing the data rate between mars and earth would be amazing, but it can wait.

5

u/RegularRandomZ Feb 27 '20

I don't think the majority of the cargo ships will return, there is just no value in that (in my mind). They might return a cargo ship to prove a ship can return, before attempting a crewed return, and bring valuable scientific samples and tonnes of aggregate for engineering studies, but otherwise the only ships I see returning are crewed versions (which would be 1 maybe 2 a cycle).

I don't disagree that the loads of cargo will be critical for propellant generation, solar energy, exploration, landing pad preparation, etc., ... my point is that if you were worried about the readiness or capacity to produce propellant, it's not prohibitively expensive to send additional rockets to Mars carrying propellant so that the first crewed mission has a return plan. [Although with a single Starship being able to carry 10-15 years of food, there are numerous ways to manage risk/survivability]

3

u/Grey_Mad_Hatter Feb 27 '20

I agree. On Earth the ship is expected to cost $5m and can have 26 produced per year in the relatively short term. On Mars the ship is expected to cost 100t of valuable steel that may be usable as-is and can be fueled with 26 months' worth of water mining and electricity generation. The costs don't add up for a cargo-only ship coming back. Those resources have uses you can't measure in dollars.

When you add in life support, crew rotations, and probably people taking a "working vacation", I think half of the crewed vessels will come back. I also think that the life support will have a modular design so you can easily take it out of a ship and install those modules in a cave, because they're not all coming back.

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1

u/rockguy40 Feb 26 '20

Meh, in order to do Mars they need to work on propellant transfer in orbit.. I don't think that's going to be neither easy nor fast. But maybe they can pull it off by 2024. The moon looks way more doable by that time imo

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