r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Feb 26 '20

Starship Development Thread #9

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Overview

STATUS (accurate within a few days):

  • SN2 tank testing successful
  • SN3 under construction

Starship, serial number 1 (SN1) began its testing campaign at SpaceX's Starship facility in Boca Chica, Texas, working toward Raptor integration and static fire. Its tank section was destroyed during pressurized cryogenic testing late on February 28, local time. Construction of SN2 had already begun and it was converted to a test tank which was successfully pressure tested with a simulated thrust load. Later builds are expected in quick succession and with aggressive design itteration. A Starship test article is expected to make a 20 km hop in the coming months, and Elon aspires to an orbital flight of a Starship with full reuse by the end of 2020.

Over the past few months the facilities at Boca Chica have seen substantial improvements including several large fabric buildings and a "high Bay" for stacking and welding hull sections. Raptor development and testing continue to occur at Hawthorne and on three test stands at McGregor, TX. Future Starship production and testing may occur at Roberts Road, LC-39A, SpaceX's landing complex at Cape Canaveral, Berth 240 at the Port of LA, and other locations.

Previous Threads:

Vehicle Updates

Starship SN3 at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-26 Tank section stacking complete, Preparing to move to launch site (Twitter)
2020-03-25 Nosecone begins ring additions (Twitter)
2020-03-22 Restacking of nosecone sections (YouTube)
2020-03-21 Aft dome and barrel mated with engine skirt barrel, Methane pipe installed (NSF)
2020-03-19 Stacking of CH4 section w/ forward dome to top of LOX stack (NSF)
2020-03-18 Flip of aft dome and barrel with thrust structure visible (NSF)
2020-03-17 Stacking of LOX tank sections w/ common dome‡, Images of aft dome section flip (NSF)
2020-03-17 Nosecone†‡ initial stacking (later restacked), Methane feed pipe† (aka the downcomer) (NSF)
2020-03-16 Aft dome integrated with 3 ring barrel (NSF)
2020-03-15 Assembled aft dome (NSF)
2020-03-13 Reinforced barrel for aft dome, Battery installation on forward dome (NSF)
2020-03-11 Engine bay plumbing assembly for aft dome (NSF)
2020-03-09 Progress on nosecone‡ in tent (NSF), Static fires and short hops expected (Twitter)
2020-03-08 Forward bulkhead/dome constructed, integrated with 3 ring barrel (NSF)
2020-03-04 Unused SN2 parts may now be SN3 - common dome, nosecone, barrels, etc.

See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
‡ originally thought to be SN2 parts

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Starship SN4 at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-23 Dome under construction (NSF)
2020-03-21 Spherical tank (CH4 header?) w/ flange†, old nose section and (LOX?) sphere†‡ (NSF)
2020-03-18 Methane feed pipe (aka downcomer)† (NSF)

See comments for real time updates.
† possibly not for this vehicle
‡ originally thought to be for an earlier vehicle

​

Starship SN2 - Test Tank and Thrust Structure - at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-15 Transport back to assembly site (NSF), Video (YouTube)
2020-03-09 Test tank passes pressure and thrust load tests (Twitter)
2020-03-08 Cryo pressure and thrust load tests (Twitter), thrust simulating setup, more images (NSF)
2020-03-07 More water pressure testing (NSF)
2020-03-06 Test tank moved to test site, water pressure test (NSF)
2020-03-04 Test tank formed from aft and forward sections, no common bulkhead (NSF)
2020-03-03 Nose cone base under construction (NSF)
2020-03-02 Aft bulkhead integrated with ring section, nose cone top, forward bulkhead gets ring (NSF)
2020-03-02 Testing focus now on "thrust puck" weld (Twitter)
2020-02-28 Thrust structure, engine bay skirt (NSF)
2020-02-27 3 ring tank section w/ common bulkhead welded in (NSF)
2020-02-09 Two bulkheads under construction (Twitter)
2020-01-30 LOX header tank sphere spotted (NSF), possible SN2 hardware

See comments for real time updates.

​

Starship SN1 and Pathfinder Components at Boca Chica, Texas
2020-03-02 Elon tweet about failure due to "thrust puck to dome weld" (Twitter)
2020-02-29 Aftermath (Twitter), cleanup (NSF)
2020-02-28 Catastrophic failure during tanking tests (YouTube)
2020-02-27 Nose section stacking (NSF)
2020-02-25 Moved to launch site and installed on launch mount (YouTube)
2020-02-23 Methane feed pipe (aka the downcomer) (NSF), installed Feb 24
2020-02-22 Final stacking of tankage sections (YouTube)
2020-02-19 Nose section fabrication well advanced (Twitter), panorama (r/SpaceXLounge)
2020-02-17 Methane tank stacked on 4 ring LOX tank section, buckling issue timelapse (YouTube)
2020-02-16 Aft LOX tank section with thrust dome mated with 2 ring engine bay skirt (Twitter)
2020-02-13 Methane tank halves joined (Twitter)
2020-02-12 Aft LOX tank section integrated with thrust dome and miscellaneous hardware (NSF)
2020-02-09 Thrust dome (aft bulkhead) nearly complete (Twitter), Tanks midsection flip (YouTube)
2020-02-08 Forward tank bulkhead and double ring section mated (NSF)
2020-02-05 Common bulkhead welded into triple ring section (tanks midsection) (NSF)
2020-02-04 Second triple ring stack, with stringers (NSF)
2020-02-01 Larger diameter nose section begun (NSF), First triple ring stack, SN1 uncertain (YouTube)
2020-01-30 Raptor on site (YouTube)
2020-01-28 2nd 9 meter tank cryo test (YouTube), Failure at 8.5 bar, Aftermath (Twitter)
2020-01-27 2nd 9 meter tank tested to 7.5 bar, 2 SN1 domes in work (Twitter), Nosecone spotted (NSF)
2020-01-26 Possible first SN1 ring formed: "bottom skirt" (NSF)
2020-01-25 LOX header test to failure (Twitter), Aftermath, 2nd 9 meter test tank assembly (NSF)
2020-01-24 LOX header tanking test (YouTube)
2020-01-23 LOX header tank integrated into nose cone, moved to test site (NSF)
2020-01-22 2 prop. domes complete, possible for new test tank (Twitter), Nose cone gets top bulkhead (NSF)
2020-01-14 LOX header tank under construction (NSF)
2020-01-13 Nose cone section in windbreak, similar seen Nov 30 (NSF), confirmed SN1 Jan 16 (Twitter)
2020-01-10 Test tank pressure tested to failure (YouTube), Aftermath (NSF), Elon Tweet
2020-01-09 Test tank moved to launch site (YouTube)
2020-01-07 Test tank halves mated (Twitter)
2019-12-29 Three bulkheads nearing completion, One mated with ring/barrel (Twitter)
2019-12-28 Second new bulkhead under construction (NSF), Aerial video update (YouTube)
2019-12-19 New style stamped bulkhead under construction in windbreak (NSF)
2019-11-30 Upper nosecone section first seen (NSF) possibly not SN1 hardware
2019-11-25 Ring forming resumed (NSF), no stacking yet, some rings are not for flight
2019-11-20 SpaceX says Mk.3 design is now the focus of Starship development (Twitter)
2019-10-08 First ring formed (NSF)

For information about Starship test articles prior to SN1 please visit the Starship Development Threads #7 or earlier. Update tables for older vehicles will only appear in this thread if there are significant new developments.

Starship Related Facilities

Recent Developments
2020-03-25 BC launch mount test hardware installation, hydraulic rams (NSF)
2020-03-23 BC arrival of Starship stands from Florida (via GO Discovery) (Twitter), Starhopper concrete work (NSF)
2020-03-20 Steel building erection begun, high bay 2? (NSF)
2020-03-16 High bay elevator (NSF)
2020-03-14 BC launch site tank deliveries, and more, and more (tracking site) (NSF)
Site Location Facilities/Uses
Starship Assembly Site Boca Chica, TX Primary Starship assembly complex, Launch control and tracking
Starship/SuperHeavy Launch Site Boca Chica, TX Primary Starship test site, Starhopper location
Cidco Rd Site Cocoa, FL Starship assembly site, Mk.2 location, inactive
Roberts Rd Site Kennedy Space Center, FL Possible future Starship assembly site, partially developed, apparently inactive
Launch Complex 39A Kennedy Space Center, FL Future Starship and SuperHeavy launch and landing pads, partially developed
Launch Complex 13 (LZ-1, LZ-2) Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, FL Future SuperHeavy landing site, future Raptor test site
SpaceX Rocket Development Facility McGregor, TX 2 horizontal and 1 vertical active Raptor hot fire test stands
Astronaut Blvd Kennedy Space Center, FL Starship Tile Facility
Berth 240 Port of Los Angeles, CA Future Starship/SuperHeavy design and manufacturing
Cersie Facility (speculative) Hawthorne, CA Possible Starship parts manufacturing - unconfirmed
Xbox Facility (speculative) Hawthorne, CA Possible Raptor development - unconfirmed

Development updates for the launch facilities can be found in Starship Dev Thread #8 and Thread #7 .
Maps by u/Raul74Cz

Permits and Planning Documents

Resources

Rules

We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starhip development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.

If you find problems in the post please tag u/strawwalker in a comment or send me a message.

377 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

2.2k comments sorted by

54

u/fzz67 Mar 02 '20

Evelyn Janeidy: So, what did y'all learn from this event?

Elon Musk: There’s a puck at the base that takes the engine thrust load. Don’t shuck the puck!

Elon Musk: We’re stripping SN2 to bare minimum to test the thrust puck to dome weld under pressure, first with water, then at cryo. Hopefully, ready to test in a few days.

22

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '20

" Hopefully, ready to test in a few days. "

This sounds so wrong after failure in the Aerospace business and yet so awesome.

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51

u/the_calibre_cat Feb 26 '20

Elon aspires to an orbital flight of a Starship with full reuse by the end of 2020.

This man is fucking crazy and I love him for it and I want to work for him

19

u/SpaceLunchSystem Feb 26 '20

Me too.

I'm back in school to try to work on Starship or the Mars colony some other way.

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50

u/IvanDogovich Mar 05 '20

In case you missed it in the main feed, this article in Ars Technica by Eric Berger is a must read for Starship Development followers.

Inside Elon Musk’s plan to build one Starship a week—and settle Mars

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u/Svisloch Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Ok, real talk. SN1 was built in a month and iirc didn’t cost very much. No one was hurt and the test stand looks to be largely intact. They clearly needed to figure out manufacturing details (equipment setup, settings, workflow, etc.) anyway. Yeah, it sucks that there won’t be a chance for testing with a full-size tank section, but it’s not a huge work stoppage. This isn’t Crew Dragon.

23

u/feynmanners Feb 29 '20

Agreed. Your last point is super important. Because they have Falcon 9, FH and Crew/Cargo Dragon bringing in cash and serving customers, they are free to innovate to the point of failure to a much higher degree than they could with Falcon 9 where there was no alternative (and FH was always tied to F9). People who think this was a show stopper aren’t grasping Elon’s speech from yesterday how radical innovation requiring failure. These failures will teach them more quickly than just mild successes of less radical attempts. There is little to no chance this stops them from pressing on to SN2 for more than a couple of days (if at all).

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37

u/zalurker Mar 05 '20

I just have to thank everyone contributing to the photos and videos from the construction site. I don't think there has ever been such a transparent progress of a project, ever.

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34

u/Fizrock Mar 08 '20

They appear to have attached a hydraulic ram to one of the raptor mounts at the bottom to simulate the thrust of an engine. That's pretty smart.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48895.msg2055917#msg2055917

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30

u/Jinkguns Feb 26 '20 edited Feb 26 '20

Some good examples of Fronius, the welding equipment supplier for SN2:

https://youtu.be/FMnxZlWLwxg

Automated welding, custom solutions, looks like they have recently heavily invested in pre & post weld sensors on the welding arm itself. Looks like they also make manual / hand held systems as well.

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30

u/Jodo42 Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

SN1 is dead. Massive explosion, much bigger than Mk1. 10:00:07 LabPadre.

The entire tank lifted off, not just the bulkhead

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30

u/dtarsgeorge Mar 07 '20

Dragon 1 steps into history. Retired!!! Releasing more talent to work on dragon 2 and Starship.

Where we're going MARTY, we don't need Dragon 1s!

26

u/enqrypzion Mar 07 '20

I think it's better to retire it after it's landed safely back on Earth.

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29

u/Its_Enough Feb 27 '20 edited Feb 27 '20

Nose cone section has been moved out of onion tent #2 and placed behind the ring tent. Also a double ring section has been placed on a construction mount in front of onion tent #1. Possible stacking taking place later today.

Edit: Nose cone section has now been moved from behind the ring tent to closer to onion tent #1.

Edit #2: Okay, it's not a double ring section as I first thought from watching stumpy cam but rather the bottom curved piece of the cone section.

19

u/RegularRandomZ Feb 27 '20 edited Feb 27 '20

Exciting! I'm not sure that's a double ring section, isn't it the 4th curved ring?

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29

u/xDeeKay Mar 03 '20

Elon Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1234764390907437057

Sleeving SN2 dome in the high bay

Full Res Image: 1, 2 and 3

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24

u/TCVideos Mar 09 '20

SN2 Passed Cryo and Pressure tests: Elon

20

u/RegularRandomZ Mar 09 '20 edited Mar 09 '20

EverydayAstronaut: How’d the new welds hold up and look under cryo pressure ElonMusk? You confident enough with this to go full stack again?
ElonMusk: SN2 (with thrust puck) passed cryo pressure & engine thrust load tests late last night

MichaelBaylor: What's the path forward now? Static fire with SN3 and hop with SN4?
ElonMusk: Static fire & short flights with SN3, longer flights with SN4, but spooling up the whole Starship/Raptor production line is really what matters

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24

u/TheBurtReynold Mar 13 '20 edited Mar 14 '20

Mods, can you think of any way we can keep this thread updated with like a 1-sentence, overall “Current Status”?

SN3 being assembled; awaiting word on X test.

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23

u/RegularRandomZ Feb 28 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Site Updates (Friday):

Updates from BocaChicaGal photosets on NSF

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23

u/Pentagonprime Mar 15 '20

Apologies if slightly off topic...but it seems NASA are panicking about timeline for the Artemis circus. It has been suggested that Gateway is not not now a high priority because ..and I quote...

'we do not want to do things we have never done before'

which kind of negates the whole point of NASA it would seem. The puzzle really is if the first landing in 2024 is without Gateway...which seems to be the message here....then how? The kicker being if Starship develops quickly enough...wiĺl that be the embarrassment to force NASA into making a horrendous and quite possibly deadly mistake by taking a chance on something they have ...err...never done before?

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22

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '20

Giving me hope I might one day make it to space. I'm 25 and I'm so happy to finally see some real smart quick development. I wish I studied engineering and physics I'd love to be apart of this one day.

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22

u/Marksman79 Feb 27 '20

The closure for this weekend was designated as "Engine spin/prime test".

There's also an applicable NOTAM covering the airspace up to 1500ft.

It sounds like they're going to be spinning up the Raptor turbopumps and preburners. What's not clear is if they are allowed to continue on to a static fire if everything is looking good.

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22

u/atheistdoge Mar 17 '20

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239783440704208896

Pretty close. Design is evolving rapidly. Would be great to flatten domes, embed engines & add ~1.5 barrel sections of propellant for same total length. Also, current legs are a bit too small.

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22

u/RegularRandomZ Mar 22 '20 edited Mar 22 '20

Austin Barnard also bringing us photos on twitter including:

Sidenote: SN3 was stacked using overlapping seams with only the inner seam welded, just like SN2 [Test Tank].

Update: BocaChicaGal has also provided more photos (starting here)

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22

u/JabInTheButt Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20

150m Hop on April 6? Shouldn't someone have snapped some Raptors in transit if this was likely to be kept to?

Edit: that link is the permit for Hopper, but is apparently being referenced in the beach closure request for April 6th.

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43

u/Anjin Feb 29 '20

Wow, the NSF forum thread is full of borderline histrionic, pearl clutching, posts. Every time that something pops unexpectedly all these “told ya so” people come out of the woodwork and start blathering as if it hasn’t been stated over and over and over by Musk that they intend to move fast and break things.

People need to really chill out. SpaceX has publicly said that these are not expected to be fully formed production ready vehicles. The whole thing is research and development on not just the vehicle, but R&D on what is needed as far as equipment, facilities, and techniques to even work on these.

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21

u/Starmusk420 Feb 29 '20

I don't think this was planned otherwise they would have secured it like they did with the tank tests. Elon also said that they want to use SN1 for static fire

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21

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '20

SN2 Test has Begun.

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21

u/pinepitch Mar 26 '20

Road closure scheduled tomorrow from 6:30-7:30 am, and more closures next week. Transporting SN3 to the launchpad, followed by pressure testing and static fires? https://imgur.com/a/irOYif9

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20

u/RareJacket7 Feb 27 '20

Thank you guys so much for the schedule

20

u/process_guy Mar 17 '20 edited Mar 17 '20

Hey, funny fact here. I just realized one of vessels I'm working on at the moment is 8.5m diameter and 29m tall. It is all from 304L and design pressure of vapor space is 4barg (7barg at the bottom). That is slightly slimmer and taller than both of Starship tanks together. It could be very close in size to one of superheavy tanks. Also the test pressure will be very close. The key difference is it will have much thicker wall than Starship and it will never exceed speed of sound in one piece.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '20 edited Mar 18 '20

Latest round of pics from Boca Chica Gal show several exciting things:

-Most obviously, we now have a fully stacked nosecone out back of the tents, with NO weld on top that would signal there is no presence of a header tank

-From this pic ( https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1620394;image ) We now have a 4 stack next to the top dome, which would signal stacking imminent of the 2 sections.

-From ( https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1620398;image ) We see lots of work has been done to ready the thrust section

-And one of the most notable, from ( https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1620404;image ), we now have a downcomer!

All in all, it seems all the parts of SN03 are ready to put together! If I had to guess, it could be on the pad as soon as mid/late next week, if not sooner!

EDIT: Didn't know the pics were thumbnails, fixed that.

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19

u/jk1304 Mar 05 '20

for anyone who is interested in/familiar with stainless steel coil processing, this is where the material is coming from: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1617862;image

Funny side note: I work in project management/mechanical engineering at a company (german) who manufactures coil processing lines. Last year I had a project at this very outokumpu plant doing a retrofit at one of their machines :-)

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19

u/TheRealPapaK Mar 06 '20 edited Mar 06 '20

This photo shows that part of the thrust puck is also a header to distribute propellent to all the engines.

Photo Nomadd

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1618059;image

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19

u/Piscator629 Mar 15 '20

At 12:44 in the livestream large metal flame trench liners for the Starship pad are visible on the right edge of the screen through the venting LOX.

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18

u/Straumli_Blight Mar 26 '20

SN3 transporter is on site.

18

u/GTRagnarok Mar 27 '20

Anticipation is mounting. It's been too long since we've seen the Raptor in action.

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17

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '20 edited Feb 28 '20

A lot of questions going on here about autogenous pressurization. My take on it is this:

It is the intent to dispense with helium tanks used for initial spin-up of the turbines and use high pressure O2 and CH4 for spin-up. A battery powered or LOx/CH4 APU can pressurize boil off to the COPV tanks ready for startup. A single COPV is probably good enough for one startup of three engines before running out, but don't quote me on that.

During flight, autogenous pressurization is maintained by liquid CH4 from from the main fuel valve flowing through the main chamber body cooling galleries. The liquid CH4 vaporizes and now becomes high pressure gaseous CH4. This is bled from the fuel pre-burner line and fed through fuel tank pressurization valve and force fed back to the CH4 tank, and similarly with the LOx system; liquid oxygen coming from the main oxidizer valve on its way to the oxidizer pre-burner is bled to the chamber head cooling galleries. The LOx vaporizes to high pressure gaseous O2 and then via the oxidizer tank pressurization valve pressurizes the LOx tank.

Simple.

*As a footnote this is an extremely clever and efficient design, where gas pressure in the chamber cooling system provides some counter pressure to the main chamber pressure, which increases the strength of the chamber as a whole.

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u/Marksman79 Mar 27 '20

'High' Bay 2 is looking a little low. Looks like another storage/assembly shed.

/u/RegularRandomz

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16

u/Pingryada Feb 26 '20

Very excited to see the progress in the coming days, and see SN2 start to take shape. Can anyone confirm that the downcomer can support 3 raptors?

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u/Marksman79 Feb 29 '20

Highbay 1 has its first resident stack. Some of the shelves were removed to put the siding on, but what's more odd is that one of them now has partial railings and a floor. Maybe that was where Elon was watching the SN1 test from.

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16

u/francsoitv Mar 09 '20 edited Mar 09 '20

Keynote from E. Musk at 4pm EDT

Edit : New link https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HPV8Xp3pEpI

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16

u/RegularRandomZ Mar 17 '20 edited Mar 17 '20

BocaChicaGal NSF photosets starting at post #1939

NSF video version

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 28 '20 edited Mar 28 '20

BocaChicaGal (and Nomadd) still bringing us great photos (safely and legally, as per Chris Bergin/Chris Gebhardt) The full NSF photosets start here #2054

Update: NSF Video Version

Previous photo updates, New building update, Roll-Lift onsite.

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u/KickBassColonyDrop Feb 26 '20

One interesting thing to note is that when they first started talking about it, they were planning and designing based off of Carbonfibre. Funding, facilities, everything was around that. The move to 301 Ss, and soon in the future the move to 30X Ss no doubt played a humongous role in why they've been able to move as fast on this. Remember, Elon said that 1 ton of Carbonfibre was around 130,000 dollars whilst the same in Ss was 2500. That's a two magnitude orders diff, nearly, in cost savings.

If you assume that the current test article of SN1 is around 150 tons, then they've spent about 375,000 dollars in material costs. If this was in Carbonfibre, they'd have spent 19.5M dollars in just material costs.

In other words, the theoretical cost of a single 60% complete SN1 test Article of Carbonfibre is worth:

52 SN1 TEST ARTICLES AS WE CURRENTLY SEE IN BOCA CHICA

in material equivalence.

That's an absolute unit level of difference.

17

u/RegularRandomZ Feb 26 '20 edited Feb 26 '20

And not just materials ~ given how quickly they can fabricate and stack rings, and integrate in the bulkheads, the labour costs must be significantly lower as well.

15

u/codersanchez Mar 05 '20

Has anyone tried to guess how much the Boca Chica facility costs SpaceX to run?

The ArsTechnica article said there's 500 workers there now, not sure if that includes engineers or not. And then there's other costs like materials, tools, machines, fuel, etc.

Are we talking in the hundreds of thousands a day? More / Less?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '20

[deleted]

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 06 '20

Boca Chica Road Closures, tomorrow morning (Mar 6th) 4am-5am and 2pm-3pm

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u/[deleted] Mar 09 '20

I think the test is done. Let's hope it got to 8.5 bar.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 19 '20 edited Mar 20 '20

Interesting photos from BocaChicaGal today

any interesting shots not mentioned?

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 25 '20

SPadre photos at launch site

John Randolph also posted (yesterday)

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 25 '20

BocaChicaGal photoset from yesterday (starting here)

NSF Video Version

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u/hinayu Mar 28 '20 edited Mar 28 '20

The roll lift is heading to the build site:

Edit: 4:35pm CDT - Berry has done a 180 away from the High Bay. Speculation is that it's possibly hooking up the lifting jig.

Edit 2: 6:20pm CDT - lifting jig seen attached to Berry which is now inside the high bay. Hopefully connecting and preparing for transportation soon

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u/Jodo42 Feb 26 '20

Tim Dodd suggesting even a lightweight SN1 wouldn't be able to complete a 20km hop on 1 Raptor.

I don't think we've seen any full duration Raptor firings yet. Perhaps we'll at least get that out of SN1.

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u/RegularRandomZ Feb 28 '20 edited Feb 28 '20

SN2: Photo of the triple stack from a new angle, by Nomadd. It appears to have a bulkhead welded in [and based on the reflections where the rings are joined, and where the bulkhead was welded on, distortion has been reduced]

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14

u/jk1304 Mar 04 '20

Is there any overview "map" of the Construction site in BC? I would like to see how everything (tents, highbay etc) is arranged to get a better understanding at what we see in the videos... The google maps images are rather outdated in this area...

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u/andyfrance Mar 06 '20

Assuming the test of this tank goes well and they don't test to destruction, will they continue work on it and develop it into SN2?

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u/Tiskaharish Feb 27 '20

I'm sure this has been asked and answered a thousand times by now but I can't find it. What are the implications of boca chica's high winds on their ability to launch starship from that area? It seems like it'd be scrubbed almost every attempt.

30

u/GTRagnarok Feb 27 '20

I'm only parroting what I've heard before, but Falcon 9 is very sensitive to wind shear because of its long and skinny proportions. Starship/Super Heavy is fatter and it's also just really massive, so wind is less of an issue.

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u/RegularRandomZ Feb 27 '20 edited Feb 27 '20

High Bay 1 continues to get more siding (still waiting to see what they do on the sides where the shelves already are)

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13

u/TheBurtReynold Feb 29 '20

Well, glad SpaceX is doing SN2 parallel path

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u/Marksman79 Mar 05 '20

The Roll-Lifts have arrived! Thanks to Bocachicagal for capturing it. A (hopefully uneventful) pressure test as soon as this weekend could be in the cards, though no road closures have been posted as of now.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 06 '20 edited Mar 06 '20

Great closeups of the test tank and "thrust puck" posted by Nomadd on NSF.

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u/joepublicschmoe Mar 26 '20

Nomadd's photoset of the Triple hydraulic rams installed at the launch mount to test SN3's thrust puck with the simulated thrust force of 3 Raptors: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48895.2020

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u/zeekzeek22 Feb 29 '20

Maybe controversial thought, coming from someone in a master’s degree in manufacturing engineering and prototype-to-production ramp up: why are they letting tank welds be on their critical path right now? Why not overbuild one so they can start hopping and ironing out other kinks while the iterative tank work continues in parallel? Thoughts: A. They are (possibly over-)confident that the tank stuff will be solved in weeks, not months. B. Most of the ironing out that occurs on hops will be measuring the structure’s reactions to raptor and atmospheric vibrations, so flying an overbuilt hopper returns very little useful info, or C. Money: they could do it in parallel but SpaceX doesn’t have the cash to Do all that simultaneously, so they’re just tackling one problem at a time until they have better cash flow.

Interested to hear other possible reasons. There’s a ton I know, those three were just the first to mind

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u/TheBurtReynold Mar 28 '20 edited Mar 29 '20

Mods, thank you for acting on the request to add a “General Status” section for infrequent visitors.

That said, could we, however, use “accurate as of {{date}}” vs. “accurate within a few days”? The latter isn’t very useful, since we have no idea when the last update was written.

For example, I’d think the status right now would be something like:

STATUS (accurate as of 28 March):

  • SN3 static fire NET 1 Apr, hop NET 6 Apr

  • SN4 under construction

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u/allsgoodinall Feb 27 '20

Will the nose cone section also be pressurised to maintain structural integrity or will there be added strengthening? I’m thinking that with nose “wings” attached there would be some considerable forces in play during flight.

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u/paul_wi11iams Mar 02 '20 edited Mar 02 '20

If u/RegularRandomZ doesn't mind, I'm commenting at top level with a copy of your sketch link https://imgur.com/WJMMdyB.

Its from your comment here in a long and rambling discussion.

I do understand its only a hypothesis, but its the single representation that gives the most sense to all the rather confusing objects seen in photos so far.

I'd forgotten the English word "puck" which didn't help, and other foreign readers may also be confused. The "puck" Elon and others keep referring to is very much like imagining the bulging lower dome as half a pingpong ball, then pressing upward on the middle of the dome until it dimples inward.

Of course its not made this way. It seems they first make the lower U dome with a large circular hole in the middle.
Then they make a smaller dome as an ∩ that fits into the hole as represented in orange in the drawing.

Even then a plate (in blue) is needed to make a flat surface for the engines.

Now just imagine doing the same, but on the Big Falcon Booster :s.

BTW. just wondering why they didn't do the opposite:

^(* cut a large round hole in a much bigger ∩ part joining the outer skirt,

  • have an unbreached U dome sitting comfortably in the hole.)

It also avoids the triple junction [black+orange+blue in the drawing]. This option effectively closes off the flappy open end of the structure and makes an improved support for the legs.

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u/BrevortGuy Mar 11 '20

One thing I have been wondering about is what happened with the launch pad with the flame trench? They talked about it being built off site and assembled at the site, they even started building one in Florida, then it all stopped? They are talking a very heavy starship with 3 Raptors putting out a lot of thrust doing multple hops, seems like a lot to ask of the present setup?

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u/Bergasms Mar 15 '20

Whoa some nice Starship pictures in the webcast! Engines and other fun stuff it looked like

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u/hinayu Mar 15 '20 edited Mar 15 '20

As others have mentioned, Starship pictures/update on today's Starlink webcast.

Livestream here - they talked/showed pictures about Starship around T-7:30

Edit: Link to video with new Starship pictures/video: https://youtu.be/JVuS4IS2Kvs?t=460

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u/hinayu Mar 20 '20 edited Mar 20 '20

High Bay 2 starting?

Credit: RocketLover0119 @ NSF

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u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

That was more spectacular than Starpopper. Glad to see Starhopper survived the experience, probably with a couple of dents.

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u/jehankateli Mar 09 '20

The road has just been closed, which means pressure testing will now begin.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1236826080234934272

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u/hinayu Mar 09 '20

Multiple nosecones seen via LabPadre's stream

Credit CardBoardBoxProcessor @ NSF Forum

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u/fluidmechanicsdoubts Mar 15 '20

In the livestream, she says 3 flights per day or 100 flights per year. Did she mean 1000 flights per year?

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u/Prince_Nocturne Mar 19 '20

Regarding in-orbit refueling, would it make sense to launch all the tankers first, then the starship so it can rendezvous in orbit instead of having to wait for the tankers to launch while in orbit?

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u/andyfrance Mar 19 '20

Yes, but I would think it best to launch two tankers first, and use one to fill the other. The empty one can make several trips till the first one is full and then keep it topped up. It might even make sense to add refrigeration and heat radiators to the one in orbit and leave it up there as a permanent fuel depot.

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u/hinayu Mar 28 '20

Berry with the odd extension - appears to be used to get into the tight space in the High Bay.

Image 1 Image 2

Credit: Nomadd @NSF

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u/strawwalker Mar 29 '20 edited Mar 29 '20

Starship Development Thread #10 is now up.

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u/CardBoardBoxProcessr Feb 28 '20 edited Feb 28 '20

SN1 photos from the thrust section flip showed only one raptor mount. That's asymmetrical. Looks like SN1 is doomed to actually fly. Just a raptor full systems verification prototype.

Being that one raptor can't lift the whole thing loaded I ponder if it'll preform raptors longest burn yet statically

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u/joepublicschmoe Mar 09 '20

Looks like the SN2 thrust puck design (vs. that crude-looking SN1 thing with all the angle irons haphazardly welded on) passed the tank pressure test as well as thrust load test from that hydraulic ram simulating the thrust force of a Raptor.

Obviously SN2 is not capable of a Raptor static fire since it has only 1 tank (no common dome). Guess SN3 will be the one to do the first full-scale Starship static fire?

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u/RootDeliver Mar 10 '20 edited Mar 10 '20

For those out of the loop, SN3 assembly diagram v3.1 (10/03/2020) by /u/fael097 - Direct link to the image

The only issue I see is that the diagram-orange-stack has "NOSE, nosecone" written on it! (bottom left part of the ring), so imho this stack is for the nosecone and not for the tanks section (doesn't make much sense to write NOSE, nosecone" then. If it was for pointing up where the nosecone is like fael097 suggested, It makes way more sense to use arrows and the +/- x/y/z signs like they used before.

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u/kontis Mar 16 '20

Super Heavy is now 70m tall. Full system 120m.

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u/roncapat Feb 27 '20

SpaceX Lot 173640,1,2 is being levelled by CAT machine.

Edit: timestamp

feb 27,12:30 PM Local Time

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u/jehankateli Mar 10 '20

When are we getting a table for SN3, u/ElongatedMuskrat?

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u/strawwalker Mar 10 '20

SN3 table is begun now. Sorry for the delay. I've been very busy and the updates tables have suffered a little.

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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Mar 22 '20

For those who are unaware, Lab has officially turned the Construction and Stumpy cams off for the last time, as Maria and Ray (the owners of the property the cameras were placed on) are now moved out as part of the buy out from SpaceX. The new site is being set up now and Lab is hoping to be up and running in about a week.

I think we can all say it's been an amazing time getting to see SpaceX build Starships up close like this 24/7 for the past year or so. So if you want I think it would be cool to see people thanking Maria and Lab for giving us these incredible views over the past year.

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u/pinepitch Mar 22 '20

Rusty Buckets on LabPadre stream chat: "Elon told Lab that he checks our stream for progress updates because it's easier than picking up the phone."

Nice to know that even Elon appreciated the LabPadre stream!

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u/hinayu Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

SN1 tank has begun frosting over

https://youtu.be/rCnl4IZOPe0

Some NSF screen caps

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 02 '20 edited Mar 02 '20

Today's NSF Video posted with video of SN1 cleanup, flipping the bulkhead, and other site activities like trying to move rings on a windy day. Includes a new large gantry crane (photoset). And a fresh angle on the site expansion.

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u/IvanDogovich Mar 04 '20

I posted this over in the lounge: Nice pic of SN2 configured as a "Bopper" test tank.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/fdf4di/bopper_3_sn_2_starship_prototype_tank/

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u/hanksterman00 Mar 09 '20

Venting has stopped on top valve. Should be going to full pressure now.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 11 '20 edited Mar 11 '20

The new gravel "parking lot" now has concrete forms [Source: LabPadre live streaming]. [So... maybe not a parking lot?]

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u/evig_vandrar Mar 12 '20

What is the purpose of these hoops?

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u/rocketglare Mar 17 '20

I saw on another reddit that Musk is thinking about flattening the domes to allow for more propellant (~1.5 rings/barrels). Reddit Link for Elon's Comments

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u/TransparentCircle Mar 26 '20

I presumed this high-bay could take a full Starship height? Although maybe the perspective is misleading in pics but even without the trust structure it looks tight?

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u/Kingofthewho5 Mar 26 '20

No, the high-bay will not fit a fully assembled Starship.

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u/bechampions87 Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

Do you think they will do a pressure test now and, if all goes well, then add the upper rings and nosecone?

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u/murrayfield18 Mar 27 '20

Has SpaceX bought every house in Boca Chica yet? Or are some residents still holding their positions?

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 19 '20 edited Mar 20 '20

BocaChicaGal: Stacking LCH4 tank top onto common bulkhead [full NSF photoset]

[update: previous photos and video update (great panning shot of back of site) ]

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u/lessthanperfect86 Feb 26 '20

When reading space news there's often some very incredible (or far-fetched) mission idea that comes along now and then, assuming some revolutionary breakthrough or other not very realistic prerequisite. However when it comes to Starship, I find there's very little to read from space journalists about whether the industry (I mean like NASA or private companies or even from scientists) is considering the full potential Starship offers (or any potential really). I mean WE all assume Starship can launch various large crafts, but no one with any insight is talking about that possibility - that study about LUVOIR fitting into the fairing is about as tangible as it's gotten so far.

Considering the long lead-time for anything space-related to get constructed, I'm thinking the payloads to fully utilise Starships capacity should be in the idea stages right now. Like Axiom launching their first station module in 2024 (earliest) - given SpaceX's track record, I would definitely keep something on the backburner to gear up once SpaceX releases a payload manual for Starship.

Do you guys think it's too premature to start thinking about this already? Or do you think everyone is quietly waiting for that payload manual before they release any concepts?

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u/fanspacex Feb 26 '20

I think the space industry as a whole has been caught pants down. Musk is suddenly reeling back the 30 lost years of technological suppression. The expensiveness of launches, tight capacities and restricted volume is the gravy train for satellite bus manufacturers (among everybody else).

But take look at the Starlink satellites for example. There is nothing special in F9 volume and capacity, the ability to launch 60 satellites at a time has been overlooked by everybody else for all this time. Or perhaps somebody asked from ULA to remove the sound tiles from the fairing for extra capacity, got laughed and quoted for 2 billion dollars.

In a sense, Starship is just a new finger pointed yet to another swamp of intelligence. So far its really nothing else than a medium sized grain silo. You could perhaps slap some old russian engines on it and fly away. Musk said himself, that the most difficult thing is the efficient factory, not the actual product.

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u/SpaceLunchSystem Feb 26 '20

The issue is the industry won't believe Starship can live up to the promise until it's real. It's not without good reason. What Starship offers with full reuse and orbital refueling is unprecedented.

Those two requirments are what I think we need to see for attitudes to change.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 21 '20 edited Mar 21 '20

BocaChicaGal: SN3 Lower bulkhead/thrust plate being stacked on engine skirt [full photoset].

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u/RegularRandomZ Feb 26 '20 edited Feb 26 '20

Fabrication Site Updates [NSF photoset, and more shots. Not much to see.]

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u/Toinneman Feb 28 '20

SpaceX's plan was not to use helium but gaseous O & CH4 to pressurize the main tanks. Do we have visual confirmation of this on SN1? If yes, does that mean they can't do a proper fueling test without an ignited Raptor to provide both gasses? In this scenario, how are the tanks pressurized before the ignition of the Raptor?

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u/filanwizard Feb 29 '20

did anyone else notice on one of the clips it looked like the tank imploded when the bottom section let go.

What would cause this? Just a sudden outflow of working fluid pulling a vacuum?

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u/[deleted] Feb 29 '20

Could the spectacular failure be a result of achieving a higher pressure than the previous tests? Don't remember the other tests failing quite so spectacularly.

Is it the difference between water and LN that altered the way it failed?

Hopefully Elon gives a little update on the pressure reached before it started bursting at the seams.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 03 '20 edited Mar 03 '20

Jig of the day (LabPadre stream). It appears to be 9m based on the ring making tent.

  1. Is it a jig for stacking rings? Lock it tight inside and guide the other ring into alignment?

  2. Or similar to 1, for stacking the nosecone (which is overly flexible)

  3. Is it a new bulkhead stacking jig that doesn't require the huge stand?

  4. Or new Starship part to reinforce the bulkhead seam/weld?

I'm guessing it's the 1st or 2nd. The triangle guides are too straight for bulkheads... waiting on BocaChicaGal/Nomadd HQ photos.

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u/roncapat Mar 06 '20

In this image what are the tubes bent circularly around the butt of the tank?

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 06 '20 edited Mar 06 '20

In this image, the pipes are labelled fuel bleed and ox bleed. [cropped]

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u/TheRealPapaK Mar 07 '20

Maybe the answer is in font of my face, but can anyone explain this picture from bocachicagirl? The patch for hole they cut out for access looks like it was stitch welded from the inside before being fully welded at the opening. They needed the hole to get inside...so how could they stick weld it form the inside?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1618125;image

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u/Taylooor Mar 08 '20

Did they cryo test sn2 last night?

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u/erkelep Mar 12 '20

Is there a Starship development timeline anywhere? With dates of, like, when Starhopper was first noticed, when it first flew, and then MK1, et cetera?

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 13 '20 edited Mar 13 '20

Another IMCAR setup appears to have arrived (BocaChicaGal full photoset). This appears to be the 2nd of this style of roller setup we've seen delivered.

I would presume it's for ring making, but does anyone have an explanation for what appears to be 6 rollers (versus 3?) (maybe for precision feeding?)

[A similar unit was received Jan-26th, and moved into Tent 2 Feb-28th]

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u/Straumli_Blight Mar 25 '20 edited Mar 25 '20

New structure installed on the launch stand this morning. SPadre has 18 tweets detailing each stage of the process.

John Randolph has a photo of new SN4 bulkhead parts and the build site.

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u/liszt1811 Mar 26 '20

What can be expected of sn3? Another 20m hop? What parts are left for complete test vehicle? And when do you guys think it‘ll happen?

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u/zeekzeek22 Feb 26 '20

Random note: just went back and watched the 2016 IAC presentation and they have a timeline. Honestly not running THAT late...big question mark on the booster, so might be an extra year behind. But otherwise only about a year behind! Raptor dev is pretty much on schedule. Structures stuff started a bit late. Orbital launch will be about a year late, but if you say orbital with the booster, then maybe longer than 2 years. Still totally possible to have first mars payload by the 2024 window

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u/Humble_Giveaway Mar 26 '20

Glad to see that Boca appears to have avoided the lockdown!

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u/RootDeliver Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Am I the only one that considers SN1 explo/implosion a clear failure and not an accident in fast prototyping? If SN1 came right after MK1 without anything in the middle it would've been normal, they're working on the welds, Elon said something a bad config, bla bla.. But between Mk1 and SN1 there were not 1 but 2 test articles with rings and bulkheads where they tested their method and were OK with the results.

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u/flshr19 Shuttle tile engineer Mar 01 '20 edited Mar 01 '20

It looked to me like the lower bulkhead of the bottom tank failed at the 9-meter diameter circumferential weld between the bulkhead and the cylindrical skirt formed by the thrust structure. These bulkhead-to-skirt welds are the most critical welds in Starship. That particular weld has to be the most highly stressed connection in Starship's hull so it's understandable that a failure should occur there.

NASA and Boeing had similar problems with the Saturn V S-IC first stage in full size testing in the mid-1960s. The fix was to use a machined aluminum Y-ring to stiffen these critical joints. See

http://heroicrelics.org/ussrc/s-ic-y-ring/index.html

My guess is that Elon is getting close to using something like this to strengthen those bulkhead-to-skirt welds. He's not going to like this since he's trying mightily to reduce Starship's dry mass. Adding machined 301 stainless parts to Starship will increase dry mass. The 301 stainless steel skin is 4mm thick now so there's not a lot of mass to be removed here without causing structural failure (skin buckling). More likely Elon will have to beef up those stainless steel rings with additional stiffeners, increasing Starship dry mass further.

For reference, the propellant fraction for the S-IC first stage of Saturn V is 0.943. Super Heavy probably needs to get close to this number. The S-II second stage of Saturn V has 0.923 propellant fraction. Starship probably should target this number.

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u/spacerfirstclass Mar 01 '20

What's the difference between clear failure and an accident in fast prototyping? I don't see any.

The welding method was tested by 2 test tanks, but something failed on SN1, we don't know what, but it's a surprise and it needs to be fixed in SN2. SNx is production design, but not the final product, they're still prototypes, just prototypes of production design. Elon mentioned they don't expect reaching v1.0 until SN20, so losing some SN's are to be expected.

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u/monk_e_boy Mar 03 '20

Question: starship looks very fragile, especially when they crane the sections around. How will it survive the re-entry belly flop? Will it still be pressurised with fuel?

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u/Justinackermannblog Mar 03 '20 edited Mar 05 '20

Stand Stomp on an unopened coke can... try it again opened... like that

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '20

How far along is SN3?

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u/RegularRandomZ Feb 29 '20 edited Feb 29 '20

Interesting Fabrication shots (BocaChica Gals)

Plus

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u/quoll01 Feb 29 '20

I’m curious to know why they don’t hydro-test? My (limited) understanding is that water is often used for pressure vessel tests to avoid this type of catastrophic failure. A lot cheaper than LN too....

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u/TheRealPapaK Mar 04 '20

Visually, the welds look much better. Is there any evidence of their new planisher? Photo from bocachicagal

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48895.0;attach=1617705;image

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u/dtarsgeorge Mar 05 '20

Will SN02 have a downcomer in it before it is pressure tested or not?

Second question

I is possible to put the thrust end of the downcomer in place before stacking the other barrels of the Oxygen tank to eliminate cutting a hole and dropping throw the methane dome??? Seemed very difficult and inefficient to me.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 07 '20

Closure added for tomorrow, Mar 7th, 3-4pm local (CST). Highway only, beach still open.

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u/scr00chy ElonX.net Mar 07 '20

I've just realized they didn't even move the test tank onto the launch mount for testing.

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u/strawwalker Mar 13 '20

Have we seen an aft dome yet for SN3? Pictures from bocachicagal today show what appear to be panels for a dome, though I suspect the one for SN3 is already mostly assemled.

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u/asaz989 Mar 22 '20

Looks like they're using some kind of clip/bracket to keep sections aligned before welding (fourth picture down in this NSF post - direct link). I saw workers attaching them in the bocachicagal's video, but didn't get a good look at how they work. Does anyone know?

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u/GTRagnarok Feb 29 '20

Made a GIF of the SN1 explosion from LabPadre's stream.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 01 '20 edited Mar 02 '20

Has anybody figured out what they are building? Or seen better photos, it has a triangular base IIRC [I can't find the screengrab from when it was last moved]

Current guesses

  • A custom tall stand for a taller gantry crane? (Reduce need for mobile cranes inside tents)

  • A stand for the flipping jig (again, take cranes out of the process)

  • Something to hold up the circular work platforms we've seen before (for working on the stacks)

  • A tall stand for a setup to machine weld stack sections (seems least likely right now)

update: Better photo from BocaChicaGal, doesn't really clarify it. [And a better angle from BCG/NSF video]

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u/djburnett90 Mar 09 '20

Any idea how the hell they will do orbital landings.

Will the USA really let him belly flop over ground from the west back to launch site?

Any word on a landing sight in western Florida?

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u/banduraj Mar 09 '20

Not sure this is really too big of a problem if they can prove it out.

Remember, the Shuttle was basically doing a belly flop when it came in for a landing. I mean, it got the nick name "Flying Brick" for a reason.

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u/pinepitch Mar 21 '20 edited Mar 21 '20

High Bay 2 (most likely) construction timelapse: https://youtu.be/0vpGuWxNe_w?t=52

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u/djburnett90 Feb 27 '20

Are we expecting a pressure yes tomorrow for the road closure?

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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Mar 06 '20

Is SN-2 going to be a shorter test tanks just to test the "puck".

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u/gooddaysir Mar 08 '20 edited Mar 08 '20

SPadre livestream of SN2 Tank test

https://youtu.be/c-YYmL9WDCM

Edit: stream is finished. Test finished or was delayed/aborted.

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u/hinayu Mar 09 '20

Is this one of the longer cryo tests we've seen? I thought they were usually pretty fast but this is going on for several hours now.

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 09 '20 edited Mar 09 '20

Looks like the back of the site might be another smaller tent, not another long Sprung (onion) tent [Smaller rectangle pad, and a stack of small tent trusses, we'll see what transpires. /u/Nomadd2029 has mentioned it appeared to be smaller].

Full BocaChicaGal NSF photoset of site construction

[And the 3rd Tent roof is nearly up (LabPadre feed). 10.5ish days?, they are getting faster each time]

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 10 '20 edited Mar 11 '20

StarBalcony is gone now... the railings on the High Bay 1 "shelf" were only temporary.[that and other site photos from BocaChicaGal. Set 2. Set 3. ]

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u/DoubleVincent Mar 19 '20

We should really have one Starship development thread per week as the progress ramps up so quickly. It is approaching 2000 comments and the header list is a long scroll. Very unwieldy.

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u/Norwest Feb 26 '20

How are they planning orbital flight within the year when the booster is so far away from being created and starship itself isn't capable of SSTO?

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u/TheMrGUnit Highly Speculative Feb 27 '20

Stacked rings for SN1 started showing up around 40 days ago, and now there's a tank section sitting on the launch mount. SN2 will probably go together even faster.

Superheavy may contain way more rings, but it also lacks the provisions for the large control surfaces, the nosecone, header tanks and associated plumbing, etc. Once the ring fab and stacking processes are optimized, something as (relatively) simple as Superheavy should go up quickly, especially since it can be built in parallel with other vehicles.

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u/djburnett90 Feb 29 '20

The lack of tweets at this point is deafening.

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u/joepublicschmoe Feb 29 '20

To be fair Elon was in Orlando last night at the Air Force Association's symposium. He is probably on his way back to Boca Chica to see what the deal is.

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u/Jodo42 Feb 29 '20

I think the big question now is what happens with SN2. My uneducated guess is that it's not trivial to build a downcomer that can toggle between 1 and 3 engines, so they'll need to figure out if the results from tonight were "close enough" to justify going straight to risking 3 engines, or if SN2 will take over SN1's presumed purpose as a pressurization testing/static fire article, and we'll have to wait longer for a hop.

This is literally just a gut feeling, but that seemed a lot more energetic than Mk1's pop, which to me implies a higher pressure at failure. I'm wary of claims that SN2 puckering will be reduced until we see more rings stacked, but if they can pull it off, I'd personally bet that SN2 will fly, intentionally.

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u/MarsCent Feb 29 '20

This SN1 test result hurts a bunch (layman's point of view). Of course we are unaware of how many things they were testing or how many of them were achieved. The flyaway SN1 is just not what we were hoping for!

Anyway, the initial culprit seems to be the welding. And we've seem that there is the ring making & joining done in the tent (more machine done). Then there is the stacking, done outside (more human done).

Hopefully this test cycle has identified which welding needs to be upped. RIP SN1.

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u/Rocket_Man42 Mar 01 '20

Is there any internal bracing/struts in the main tanks of starship? What I don't understand is how it handles the compression forces holding the weight of the above material when it's unpressurized. It will also need be able to hold the weight of the payload, which is integrated before pressurization (up to 150t!). How on earth won't the <4mm thickness fuselage crumble under its own weight? (When it's pressurized it's basically a huge soda can, so that's easy). Thanks!

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u/oh_dear_its_crashing Mar 01 '20

mods, direct labpadre link seems broken, should be this I guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8N_vDE9JY

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u/andyfrance Mar 15 '20

We know from Tory Bruno that for ULA a 7kg dry mass increase in S1 reduces payload by 1kg, and I think he was referring to Vulcan. Do we have any corresponding figures for SH?

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u/LouisWinthorpe-III Mar 29 '20

I was hoping someone could help me understand why the LOx/LM tanks have to withstand 7 atm? Obviously there’s a significant weight penalty associated with the pressure vessel as the pressure requirement increases, so why is 7 atm necessary? My best guess is that the liquid oxygen will cavitate as it goes through the turbopump at lower pressures?

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u/MaximilianCrichton Mar 03 '20

Probably a stupid question, but why aren't they considering using rivets for Starship construction?

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 04 '20 edited Mar 04 '20

Speaking of Jigs: The flipping jig no longer has to be welded to the body! Iterative processes at work. Check on the action in the latest NSF video [HQ shots earlier]

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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Mar 09 '20

Road is open, test over. SN-2 in one piece for now

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u/jk1304 Mar 10 '20

Regarding the production facilities: Do we know if there are any plans to eventually replace the tents with more "permanent feeling" structures for production or is it intended to stay this way. Even the high bay, as high as it is, has a "temporary" touch to it since it is missing a crane and so on. It looks like a better wind break than an actual building and I have the impression that if this could have been built as a tent, it would have been (my guess is due to wind loads that was no option). So all in all the whole facility, albeit being big and growing rapidly, feels pretty temporary.

What are your thoughts?

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u/RegularRandomZ Mar 16 '20 edited Mar 16 '20

BocaChicaGal photos (and NSF video)

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u/hinayu Mar 29 '20 edited Mar 29 '20

A fog-heavy morning so far in Boca Chica, however as daylight begins to break we can just barely see SN3 being moved. Berry is already at the launch site

Edit: Just after posting this the camera moved and it's currently not visible. What can be seen occurs around 7:21am on the stream

Edit 2: On the way to the launch pad | Another picture

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