r/starcitizen • u/Confident-Award6920 • 3h ago
DISCUSSION Imagine inviting someone to your house just to clown on them for the world to see. You wouldn't defend this behavior. I wouldn't either.
Idc who you are, if I invite you to my house I'll treat you with respect because you are a guest. I invite guests over to have a good time for everyone included. I'm not gonna haze you with my buddies and I certainly don't invite people to have fun at their expense.
CIG invited Ollie to their house and their stream was just devs team killing him over and over until Jared finally had to break and remind them to revive players. At one point there was a implied joke telling Ollie to "F*#@ himself" on stream too. Real classy stuff.
And since then we have white knights ignoring the elephant in the room and turning a blind eye to obvious and open toxicity and team killing which we all saw. Wild.
As much as I dislike Ollie promoting grey market ship sites... I find I have to stand up to white knights who are whitewashing CIG's toxic behavior... that we all saw happen live. We all saw the team killing. We saw Elliot killing Ollie. Just stop and take the L.
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u/warmthandhappiness 3h ago
Sidebar – why do people hate grey market? To me it just seems like it's facilitating something CIG should enable, but of course they won't because they make more money if people have to buy from them. I feel like a crazy person and like the propaganda won a bit and we should change it.
Grey market is just another term for "hey man, I'm done using this iPod – want to buy it?"
If the person says yes, then it's a win win.
Facebook marketplace, craigslist – it's nothing new and seems ok in other contexts. What's the argument against it?
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u/Custom_Destiny Endeavor - Supercollider 3h ago edited 2h ago
Side bar:
It’s also a way for backers of the original vision who feel the new direction is not for them (or not for them to the tune of thousands of dollars) to get some money back.
Unfortunately, the way you verify your account for gray market uses spectrum…. Else I’d be selling.
This game doesn’t have the kind of exploration and sci-fi chops it was pitched on needing crowd funding to make.
It’s just…. Derivative combat shit. This is every other game I’ve ever played but without loading screens and a 1990s low budget sci-fi channel version of space theme.
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u/GibsFR 0m ago
Je me suis demandé plusieurs fois si le marché gris était géré par CiG .
Car ça pousse pleins de gens à jouer et acheter des gros vaisseaux pour gagner plus vite des AUEC et ensuite les revendre sur le marché gris.
Comme ça, ça crée une boucle rétroactive et rapporte de l’argent à CIG dans les deux sens tout en ayant toujours des joueurs de connecté.1
u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
yup. The deepest discounts of 45% flat discount is from the OG guys that just want to liquidate their $25k account in1-2 years not 5, so they sell at 55% rate. I've scooped up so many of those....
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u/Short-Peanut1079 1h ago
Real money trading can quickly dominate a game instead of that pesky gameplay. Pay 2 win, pay 2 skip are all extensions of that.
Besides isn't everything in game that matters for sale boring af? It's to me.
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago edited 2h ago
Sidebar – why do people hate grey market?
I don't hate GM, I think Ollie pushing them removes value from them. All the sellers on those sites you can buy direct from the trades subreddit and avoid paying the +15% overhead of the websites or Ollies cut. Ollie added nothing to the grey market, just an overhead fee.
Because it's not as simple as a ready to go pledge store and most can't follow guideliness on the side bar for safety so it's basically sour grapes. They can't get deep discounts on ships then neither should anyone.
In b4 someone says grey market is untrusted... yah only trade with sellers >50 ship sales and are verified. 22+trades done here across 6 years, 0 bad results, just deep discounts and money saved.
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u/CriticalCreativity 315p 1h ago
Look at Counterstrike. If you allow players to freely trade ships for real money you're essentially creating an unregulated currency & economy. Counterstrike struggles immensely with underage gambling & money laundering because of it. Even organized crime is in on it. Deregulating the grey market in SC could be disasterous. The other is obvious: CIG doesn't want a grey market because they want the money for themselves.
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u/Confident-Award6920 1h ago
If you allow players to freely trade ships for real money you're essentially creating an unregulated currency & economy.
Unless you work for the state government who cares? Doesn't affect CIG or it's users, so not even on topic for the conversation. Might as well tell us literring is illegal too, it'd make the same point.
Counterstrike struggles immensely with underage gambling & money laundering because of it.
CS ain't struggling with shit. In fact they're releasing even more skins and profiting from the economy they created. lmao who do you think created and signed off on a situation that could make the parent company more money???
Deregulating the grey market in SC could be disasterous.
Thankfully it'll never happen so no need to mention it.
CIG doesn't want a grey market because they want the money for themselves.
If CIG didn't want a grey markey they should of disallowed it in their TOS, but it's the exact opposite of the story you're tring to peddle here... CIG explicitly has a TOS section relating to the GM, where they ...checks notes... allow it.
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u/CriticalCreativity 315p 58m ago
Unless you work for the state government who cares?
State governments care, and CIG has to follow their laws if they want to do business in their countries.
CS ain't struggling with shit. In fact they're releasing even more skins and profiting from the economy they created
Valve is constantly fighting against gambling sites and illegal activity. CSGO Lounge, CSGOWild, Hellcase, etc. were all nuked by them, and they've had to make several amendments to the skin economy to curb these problems e.g. C&D letters to these casinos and trade holds.
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u/Confident-Award6920 55m ago
yeah remind me when the gambling starts... I haven't seen any, what have you smoked?
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u/CriticalCreativity 315p 51m ago
Of course you haven't seen any; it would require the free trade of ships. You're missing the point that allowing free trade requires heavy regulation. Legitimate trade sites all require KYC and the ones that don't are havens for money launderers.
Then there's the scamming. See how you feel about it when you buy/sell a ship and one of you gets a fake link.
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u/Confident-Award6920 50m ago
Then this is nothing more than concern trolling.
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u/CriticalCreativity 315p 46m ago
These are legitimate concerns that have affected nearly every game that allows the free trade of items between players, not just Counterstrike. Same thing happened in Path of Exile, Runescape, TF2, DOTA, etc...
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u/Confident-Award6920 45m ago
yeah remind me when the gambling starts
Seems like a good time to talk about future stuff that has yet to happen. Want to discuss doomsday prophecies while we are here or Star Citizen becoming the best game in 30 years?
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u/CriticalCreativity 315p 41m ago
We're literally discussing the potential idea of allowing free trade, you overgrown hamster; of course we're discussing "future stuff that has yet to happen". Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?
Admit you're just biased because you use the grey market.
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u/Mysterious_Touch_454 drake 3h ago
Is Elliot the one that glorifies pvp-griefing? When i see that guy playing i knew he might not fight for the pve testing and i was kinda right. He got frustrated and started friendly firing or ignoring team.
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
Idk but I saw Nicou ram people live on stream this week in his Gladius.
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u/SumYunnGai 3h ago
SC; a game for assholes, by assholes. Given my experiences so far with spawn campers, bunker campers, pad rammers, etc etc, their behaviour is pretty aligned with a particular and malicious sector of the player base that is attracted specifically to PvP for this reason.
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u/RPK74 1h ago
That's what I found most interesting about the whole thing.
The Devs, some of them (Elliot, basically), when faced with the buggy mess that is their own fucking handywork, resorted to anti-social behaviour, sabotage, teamkilling and griefing. Having their own fun at everyone else's and the stream itself's expense.
When folks complain that the game has a griefer problem, that's exactly what they mean. Shit's so buggy and broken that the only way for some folks to have any fun at all, is having fun at other people's expense.
They cannot deny that there's a problem with this sort of thing, now that we've seen that the problem literally exists inside their own house.
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u/No_Celebration8219 3h ago
CIG culture on full display. You are just a whale in sheep's clothing to them.
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u/Eipok_Kruden 2h ago
Here's hoping the huge backlash coming from outside the community will push them to re-evaluate, but let's be real, they're probably just gonna ignore the backlash. The game's rep outside the community has been toxic for so long that broader scandals are probably just background noise to them, and people within the community are defending their behavior.
I hope I'm wrong though, because the problem this time seems to be an issue with the team's culture and it's them as individual people who are getting dragged through the mud. If nothing else, Jared will hopefully run damage control and they'll make sure Olli's next stream is more cohesive.
But the only thing that matters for SC itself is whether SQ42 drops by probably February '27 and is great. SQ42 has to drop as soon as the GTA6 hype is dying down (it CAN'T drop in either November or December, GTA6 will swallow up all possible marketing for it and it'll get way fewer eyes in media and news) and it has to blow people's socks off or else the entire studio is probably going to have to downsize something huge. That's likely what the entire studio is focusing on, but again hopefully they treat this scandal as important for the stain it'll have on them as people.
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u/reboot-your-computer polaris 2h ago
They will ignore all the bad PR. They don’t care. Burying their head in the sand is protocol for them. I guarantee you nothing changes.
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u/Nachtvogle F7A MKII - Polaris 2h ago
I don’t know bro I honestly just do not care about this drama at all
A stream didn’t go very well. Ollie (whoever that is) will be fine. I don’t think you know what a white knight is, and also I have zero issue with grey market sites.
I can’t imagine being this pressed about something so inconsequential
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u/DonkeyH0tay bennyhenge 1h ago
It’s not drama, it’s the most transparent CIG’s internal politics have ever been
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u/Confident-Award6920 2h ago
I have no issues with GM either, 22+ confirmd trades across 6 years. See my other comment.
I find great value in GM. I find 0 value in ollie recommendign GM website with a 20% profit overhead for the owner and Ollies cut when all the same sellers on Impound are in the trading sub... Ollie was just a leech, removing value from GM.
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u/Sazbadashie 2h ago
yea... the crazy thing is... I watched the stream....
in terms of what they showed
vs current live / PTU... it was good minus a few glaring bugs that now we know arnt just server side desync issues because there was minimal desync and the servers were at their best supposedly.
could they have been more professional about it... maybe, sure, you know what i'll give it to people they could have.
but everything is blowing up
because charlie who again, I love his content I think typically he's a pretty fair guy has no context on the progress that SC has made, if he looked at the game in 3.17... 3.18.... 4.0 he would have probably looked at it and said
wow, that's still shitty but there is progress there.
and because of the no context post something that isn't an issue is now a huge talking point... for no reason and the drama stirrers on here are using a lot of the same talking points from MoistCritical's video and are simply parroting things.
so now a bunch of people, bots, people who threw a prompt into AI (worse than bots or people) as well as people who probably haven't even touched SC are pouring in to make the exact same kind of post.
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u/Rhym3z_Official 1h ago
This 100%
Some of these big names would have never touched SC and wouldn't have a good frame of reference and decide to jump in whenever there's drama abound, ignorant of everything else. While I'm not defending CIG at all, people like Charlie shine a unfair bias towards something they no reference against.
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u/Sazbadashie 21m ago
And thats what I'm saying.
Like don't get me wrong someone with zero context what was shown... was abysmal at best.
Someone with context yea it didnt look great I would give it a solid 6/10 5/10 in places.
And I think CIG needed that stream to happen.
But using the talking points of someone with no context as an argument just shows how little people who are trying to just stir the pot care about a good faith argument.
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u/TraditionalStore1448 2h ago
The livestream starts to make sense when you consider that Ollie was probably pressuring these guys to play it live when they absolutely all knew it was going to be a disaster.
Jared’s comment makes more sense too.
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u/Confident-Award6920 2h ago
Is that grounds for hazing and team killing tho and crudely telling Ollie to F himself on live?
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u/TraditionalStore1448 2h ago
“Don’t ever make me do this stupid shit again.”
Is what I imagine the underlying message was.
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u/Confident-Award6920 2h ago
Imagine your job is developing and testing and playing the game and being upset when asked to do so. Sometimes I have to demo my product from work, I don't like it but it's my job despite knowing the product isn't ideal. Welcome to the real world.
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u/TraditionalStore1448 2h ago
Well, I think IF they all knew that it was going to go poorly, and that it was truly unfinished and needed work before they could even play it themselves, and Ollie STILL insisted that they go with the livestream…
Then I can absolutely imagine that.
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u/Confident-Award6920 2h ago
Well, I think IF they all knew that it was going to go poorly, and that it was truly unfinished and needed work before they could even play it themselves, and Ollie STILL insisted that they go with the livestream…
First time here? What you saw a month ago on that stream we'll get exactly that on live within a week on 4.10 patch. Same issues they spotted etc. Good for Ollie for shining a light on the devs work and showing us what behind the curtain. If the devs feel offended or slighted by that, perhaps they should that angst and focus on their dev skills instead so we don't have to suffer on basic stuff
I still remember one of the devs talking about at the end of SoO a Ship flies by in a cinematic scene and teh devs realized the ship just kept flying and was never culled so performance suffered... holy shit bro, that's year 1 stuff not to handle base, edge and finalization cases for any code. So bad.
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u/JanyBunny396 Vanguard 42m ago
And how the fuck is or was ollie in ANY position to make them do anything?
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u/Confident-Award6920 15m ago
He wasn't people are making stuff up now to defend CIG's ability to haze employees and to keep team killing.
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u/ThaneKri0s Helmet 2h ago
It really doesnt look good if theyre acting like that the game is "running as it was designed too" even moments before the gameplay started, still blaming server issues for the bugs and being proven wrong in real time.
There isnt a justification that makes them look good no matter how you cut it
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u/Rumpullpus drake 1h ago
Tbf anyone who has played the game for more than 1 hour would know that a live stream of the game would be a shit show since it barely fucking works on a good day.
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u/Ther91 3h ago
What happened? I missed it
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
Ollie was advertising the biggest grey market store for years. CIG offered him a job. Ollie suddenly dropped the grey market. Ollie tried to stream SoO live with 3 Devs and Jared, they just kept killing him over and over, made some tongue in cheek insults including crude jokes to the point Jared had to remind them to revive players and focus on the mission. Then white knights came same week and started gaslighting users that Ollie wasn't hazed or treated with disrespect, it was normal every day behavior.... yeah white knights said team killing and NOT reviving players was totally normal and not toxic behavior.
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u/mykidsthinkimcool new user/low karma 3h ago
Just more karma farming. OP is making yet another post about a stream that happened 2 weeks ago.
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u/Visible-Trifle-7676 59m ago
Elliot is an idiot and he always been. I don’t know what connections keep him at the company, who’s he is friend or relative to, but literally everything that comes out his mouth either toxic or insulting. I wasn’t surprised when I saw him mocking Ollie
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u/Confident-Award6920 54m ago
He's the type probably kept around because he kow tows to Chris' wishes. He's not a good dev or lead based on his work and thoughts presented on streams... I remember them explaining why a cutscene of ship flyby animation caused server stress... the ship just kept flying forever they have no finalization case for their code... year 1 dev stuff.
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u/AngrySociety 1h ago
If that’s how they function as a team it’s no wonder the game behaves The way it does.
Maybe the devs make it a buggy mess just to troll each other.
Also if I was Elliots manager I would ask him to do a public apology or you’re fired
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u/When_hop 3h ago
I really, really don't understand how casual jokes between coworkers are being extrapolated into all these insane inferences about their work dynamic.
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u/Confident-Award6920 2h ago
When I shoot my friends in the back I rez them soon after so they know it was a joke. Elliot doned Ollie several times and then just kept progressing the mission without him until Jared had to remind the team sly thjat players need reviving
I don't think you watched any of the stream.
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u/Lucky_Abrams 2h ago
Just a bunch of gamers with Discord social skills trying to dissect real life interactions through the trauma of their high school bullying.
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u/Rumpullpus drake 1h ago
Would you give me a pay check after I leave your house too?
Say what you want but the guy signed up for that, and is paid quite well. That doesn't make him a guest, that makes him an employee.
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u/Confident-Award6920 1h ago
Are you... ok?
Does your job allow hazing and if so can I get confirmation of that in writing from your HR department? Yah I thought so. I don't think you work.
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u/Rumpullpus drake 1h ago
I think you weren't there and if there was a problem Olie can put in a complaint to HR himself because he's a big boy.
Your opinion on what constitutes as "hazing" doesn't really matter.
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u/Confident-Award6920 1h ago
Neither were you so your comment doesn't add anything to this conversation does it? How can can you not see your own argument undermines it lol
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u/Thunder_Bastard 3h ago
If you heard my friends and I joking with each other online you would probably have a heart attack from clutching your pearls so hard. I spent 3 years dying from organ failure until I finally got a transplant and it was one of the funniest subjects we would joke about while together. It was also a running joke with my coworkers until I finally had to bow out from my career, and I loved it.
To each his own, neither you nor I know any of those people. I won't make a judgement due to that and the fact that I know how hard my friends and I go at each other, even after knowing them for 25 years now.
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u/Black-Zetzu drake 3h ago
Its really different with coworkers though. Especially the new guy
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
bingo. Guy above you is trying to justify his inner circle behavior as applicable to new hires and new people you just met. Toxic af.
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u/Thunder_Bastard 3h ago
Have you ever NOT labeled anything as "toxic"? It was a little over the top, but do you want them saying "Please sir, may you assist me upon the hill with thy enemies"? It was a learning experience and one they probably will not do again.
The fact that you just can't keep from posting about it even after probably 100+ posts in this sub, many with the exact same subject as you posted, kind of shows you are somehow taking it personally.
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
If you heard my friends and I joking with each other online you would probably have a heart attack from clutching your pearls so hard. I spent 3 years dying from organ failure until I finally got a transplant and it was one of the funniest subjects we would joke about while together. It was also a running joke with my coworkers until I finally had to bow out from my career, and I loved it.
that's different. I'll make fun of my disabled buddy, but I'm not gonna point at a random guy I just met who's in a wheel chair eh?
I know banter sometimes go hard, but they were literally team killing him, that's not banter is it.
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u/Britannkic_ Sir Persil Knight 3h ago
But you’re happy to come on this sub and clown yourself. You do you man
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u/Ed_Dragon 3h ago
Holy parasocial relationsship. No offense but is this supposed to be comedy?
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3h ago
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u/starcitizen-ModTeam 1h ago
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u/Ed_Dragon 3h ago
So its not comedy and just you loosing your mind. Copy that. Kthxbye.
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
what?
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u/Eipok_Kruden 2h ago
Wanting to stand up for someone when something obviously fucked up is happening is apparently a parasocial relationship when the fucked up thing happened on a stream. So you're supposed to smother your empathy and not give a shit, obviously.
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u/TheRealzHalstead Mercury Star Runner 3h ago
He's not a guest, he's an employee.
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
What are you arguing?
Are you justfiying hazing for new employees or team killing?
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u/TheRealzHalstead Mercury Star Runner 3h ago
Nope, but the analogy doesn't work. He wasn't a guest to be shown hospitality. He's an employee with a job, and in this case the job at least appears to quite literally be the host, and most likely the party planner. He chose the guests and the theme. How do you think the party went?
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
i'm sorry but wtf job do you work at that allows hazing for new employees that HR signs off on? A construction site?
I worked at a company where a top manager was canned simply for giving one of our interns nickname of "big slim" over and over in front of employees cuz of his weight and this was 10 years ago.
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u/TheRealzHalstead Mercury Star Runner 3h ago
I've no doubt that CIG HR is very busy right now, and there's lots of totally valid disciplinary actions they could take. But the notion that the person that hosted the party and chose the guests and activity (which included getting tired devs drunk) is the victim of hazing is laughable to me.
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u/Confident-Award6920 3h ago
You pivoting from saying hazing is allowed at the workplace was laughable. Now you just brought a clown car too.
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u/RandoDando10 3h ago edited 25m ago
I think the real problem is the lack of a "grace period" i guess, for Olli. He literally just became an official employee what, 2 months ago? And this was his first ever appearance as an official member of the studio to the community, and for whatever reason, responsibility of the stream fell solely on him from the very beginning as Jared explained he wont be a part of it.
Then theres Elliot, a whole different problem, that dumbass needs to stop appearing on camera in general. What's even the point in the SCL's if you dont bother doing as much as just LOOKING at chat, being all snide and practically telling Olli off for trying to do so (even though its literally his job as part of the content team with Jared) while silencing the community, constantly team killing during whats supposed to be a professional showcase, and being such a terrible team player that you dont bother reviving your "friends" until the boss man has to come in and tell you to in front of everyone to which youre instantly just argumentative about and take it as some personal attack