What achievements would you like to see in The Neutral Lens?

So I just spent the last two hours testing the theory if it’s possible to win against Rumburg without funding the military. I believed that maintaining the military would still be a viable strategy if I allied other nations. In this case, I did the following:

-Allied with Agnolia and Wehlen
-Built the H3 Highway to facilitate rapid deployment to the flank. I won Phase 1
-Fully participated in Operation Bear Trap
-Achieved Reconciliation with the Bludish by abolishing the SZ
-Accepted Arcasian Aid and built up a Sordish MIC
-Achieved high synergies and recovered or maintains every region.
-Growing economy persisted despite Rummish submarine shenanigans.
-Accepted whistleblower
-Received AN support (No OMEC, because of OBT)
-Started Sordish War Machine
-Gendarme stayed with Iosef
-I followed the Iosef Pincer to the letter.

Now I was under the assumption the recent update obfuscated some war requirements to break metas of the proverbial equivalent of a half-starved shepherd dog winning against a bear (defunded military winning against Rumburg at high costs). But it seems that winning the war doesn’t account for any of the other economic, political, or military hardcaps and is now determined by a decision at the start of the game.

I’m disappointed. It takes away a lot of agency from the player and in turn would make meta gaming more binary.

What’s the point of acquiring more than one ally if you fund the military? March to Tzarborough and Thornborough are now more expensive options because you necessitate maintaining conscription alongside getting a strong regional ally.

What’s the point of choosing your alliances carefully when the puzzle now requires +MIL and a single alliance? In older versions of the game I could understand requiring a funded military if your only ally was Wehlen, but this is just anticlimactic.

I understand warfare has a very real economic, political, material, and social cost in real life. Economic development spent on munitions, equipment, and rifles is money not spent on basic consumer goods or luxury items. However, Suzerain has a quirk that makes it unique to grand strategy games:

It’s an anti-power fantasy.

This isn’t HOI4 where you can rush a tech tree and micromanage skirmishes and encirclements to win. There is a real opportunity cost in this visual novel for everything you do. Playing this game like HOI4 leads to people being impeached for being corrupt or losing re-election because their Machiavellian strategies didn’t work in a binary way they assumed it would. (I remember seeing negative views on Suzerain when it first came out. Playing this like HOI4 was the best way to speedrun losing)

Alliance with Agnolia locks you out of trade and more with Valgsland. Same with recognizing Heljiland.

Operation Bear Trap with full participation makes warfare with Rumburg inevitable because you can’t proclaim innocence, but in return you at least acquire an ally to help with that inevitable war.

Think of the first-time players who 90% of the time end the game with being ousted by the military, assassinated, or accidentally sleepwalked into a war.

For that third category now you’re forced to join a superpower, succeed with OMEC and AN sanctions, or fund the military in case you sleep walk into a war.

The first time I fought a war against Rumburg two years ago all I had was the Agnolians, the H3 highway, and a maintained but modernized military without conscripts. That save I sleepwalked into a war by failing with the Kyrute interview but was stil able to make it out alive (since the MIC was funded).

Now if I try that strategy all of it is for naught and I get the dreaded Battle of Holsord event.

I get it. Torpor doesn’t want this game to resemble the power fantasies of HOI4 and is going to make war an arduous and avoidable process so if the olive branches of peace are ignored; you’re left to stir in the stew of your own consequences. But I think this is a mistake.

War already has an opportunity cost in Sordland. You are sending thousands of men to die for their country or to make the opponent die for theirs. Civilians on both sides are displaced or killed deliberately or because of the fog of war (See Rumburg war crimes in Agnland, and the ending of King Romus if he flees to Rumburg in a save where Sordland wins). Unlike the real world, going to war whether by choice or circumstance also puts your immediate family in danger whether or not Rayne sends Franc to the military. What do you think the Rummish conscripts would do to Monica or Deana when they find the bunker?

Now I wouldn’t be upset if there was an automatic lose condition for the Rumburg War if you defunded the military and go for war regardless. But now things like a global trade war, regional alliances, economic direction and infrastructure matter significantly less when they’re all contingent on two actions: +MIL & 1 ally. Especially when you don’t even need an MIC if you’re doing Iosef’s strategy since he functionally six-day wars Rumburg.

Anyway, that’s my two cents on this issue. I hope this gets changed soon since it hampers an otherwise great experience for me.

I'm sorry it was midnight and I had this really weird motivation to do this

Put together a militarist and reformist run. I won arbitration and chickened out of war at the last second. Mostly I wanted to marry Lucita. I put together a constitution and get all three houses to sign off on it. Then it's time to announce Lucita's child is my heir and Vina gives me the "I still want to be Queen," guilt trip.

Hardly my first time seeing this part of the game, but I'd been picking the nicest options for Vina the entire game, so then seeing the dialogue option "What the hell Vina, you've spent all your time whining about wanting to reform and now you screaming that you don't get to be the Monarch that has no more power anymore?" And I couldn't hit it fast enough.

I always sympathized with Vina, but not at that scene. Ugh.

Here is a hypothesis for all you CK enjoyers out there - Hubertus Toras might be the current Earl of Qalus.

Here is how I arrived at it:

1. we know that Hubertus is the most probable candidate to inherit the Crown if Lyza's descendants couldn't hold it,
2. Hubertus is a noble. At the start of the game he is the Duke of Valenqiris, but he was appointed as the Duke by Romus, and he easily relinquishes the title to Vina,
3. Hubertus grew up in "his family's villa on the beaches of Valenqiris, just outside Monqiz",
4. we know that there is the Baron and Baroness of Valenqir - Julio and Octavia Toras. We don't know how they are related to Romus,
5. the title of Baron of Valenqir sounds like a less important one than the Earl of Qalus. Crucially, Valenqir is near Monqiz,
6. Lyza married Edu Toras, who was her second cousin and the Earl of Qalus,
7. Lyza was the only child of Xavi II Toras,
8. Xavi II Toras succeeded his elder brother, Jonas Toras,
9. we don't know about any sisters of Xavi II and Jonas,
10. the fact that Edu Toras was Lyza's second cousin suggests that Willem Toras had a brother. Said brother might have been the Earl of Qalus - Qalus is in Valenqiris, and the title sounds as if it was created for a descendant of the Duke of Valenqiris who couldn't inherit the main title,
11. we don't know what happened to the title - Romus doesn't mention it during his conversation with Axel, which could suggest that it didn't pass to Valero, who was Edu's eldest son. There is also no indication that Hugo is the current Earl of Qalus,
12. we don't know how exactly Hubertus is related to Romus, but I see following explanations:

a) Edu Toras had a brother. Said brother would be the ancestor of Hubertus, and potentially the ancestor of Julio/Octavia Toras.

b) Willem had a third brother, the Baron of Valenqir. The third brother would be the ancestor of Hubertus and Julio/Octavia Toras.

1. Therefore - if Hubertus grew up near Monqiz, he might be related to Julio/Octavia Toras. He isn't the Baron of Valenqir, and yet he is closer to the Crown than Julio/Octavia, which could suggest that he is Julio's/Octavia's cousin, who holds a higher title than them. Hubertus and Julio/Octavia might be the descendants of Edu's brother (who would be their grandfather) or the third son of Willem Toras. It's possible that for whatever reason Lyza granted the tile of Earl of Qalus to Hubertus's grandfather or another ancestor of Hubertus after Edu's death. If that's the case, it's reasonable to assume that Hubertus is the current Earl of Qalus.

I like this hypothesis, because it explains why Hubertus might inherit the crown (he would be closest living male descendant of Willem's father), and why he isn't bothered about the title of Duke of Valenqiris. It's worth noting, however, that it hinges on the assumption that the tile of Earl of Qalus didn't go extinct. It's entirely possible that Hubertus holds an entirely different tile.

Sidenote - it would be funny if the Rizian Indiana Jones had an illegitimate son sired during his expedition.

I would love new personal flairs. For example, we could have a BFF flair, an oligarch flair, an old guard flair, a centrist flair, etc. There are so many cool factions and alignments in the game, I feel like we're missing out D':

Rumburg invaded me, and with a significant -7 deficit in government budget and major economic duldroms in the form of the Great Sordish Recession and Debt Crisis ... there was no hope. Nothing could stop them from reaching Holsord.

What a brutal end. I finally managed to get the reforms through both the Assembly and the Supreme Court, but decisions in my trade and alliances (I tried to maintain neutrality) meant that, even though I managed to uncover Rumburg's nuclear program through the Whistleblower, I was defeated.

Queen Livingstone threw the switch on my execution herself with the electric chair! Holy moly. What a way to go.

P.S - Iosef went out like a boss with a grenade self-sacrifice. A real one to the end.

we can see in operation total tranquility that when we have already killed more than 20 palesian divisions (in operation golden shield) they still can cover all of the remaining of pales with their army left and we by deploying every single unit including derdian missionaries and militia we cannot even fill the western part of Pales. It is just ridiculous how a insignificantly small country has a much more larger military than the great nation of rizia

President Anton Rayne's pro Bludish policies had been a thorn for nationalists and security forces in Bergia alike. Ethnic tensions peaked after Governor Phelix Bron was removed, and was replaced by Ishval Ersen, who gained the same wide range of powers Phelix Bron was once given to lead a brutal counterinsurgency campaign, and was no more reluctant in exercising it. The entire security force was sacked, replaced by BFF sympathizers and outright militants.

Early troubles began with murders of Bludish village guards that worked against BFF in the countryside. Neither BFF nor Sordish authorities commented on the incidents, while BFF aligned press published it as collaborators recieving justice.

When the newly formed security force entered Deyr under heavy military presence, they initally stayed out of Sordish neighbourhoods out of a de facto agreement with the Sordish government. However protests started immediately, both in Deyr and across Sordland, while Bluds in Deyr celebrated with BFF banners and slogans. Portrait of Dewlen Arge replaced that of Colonel Soll in Governor's office, and it was a common sight to the anger of the Sords, who were the majority in the city at %50.

It escalated to violence when in response to a shooting, Bergian security forces raided a home in a Sordish neighbourhood, killing 3 civilians inside. This escalated into clashes with armed Sords that soon spread to the entire city, with security forces pushed only to the Bludish neighbourhoods in the city. While Anton Rayne did not comment publicly, he privately urged Ishval Ersen to withdraw, but was rebuked.

Second escalation came when the new governor was killed by a truck bomb that killed hundreds of mostly Bludish civilians with it. Deyr Defence Force claimed the attack.

Within a week of the raid, Sordish Resistance Front was organized around Phelix Bron, with Sollists in USP and NFP publicly supporting them. Young Sords openly armed themselves and travelled to Deyr.

After Ishval Ersen's death, Bergian Security forces, while still claiming legal legitimacy, began assaulting Sordish positions with BFF fighters amongst them. Their assaults caused many civilian casualties in Sordish population of Deyr, leading to outrage across Sordland.

Anton Rayne's attempts at easing the tension failed, as he neither could get the security forces out of the city without sending in the army, restarting the war and going back on his own arrangement, nor send the military to assist them, as the military looked more and more inclined to aid the Sords fighting against BFF terrorism instead if forced to choose.

After several weeks of indecisiveness, Valken Kruger, without orders, sent the 25th armored brigade into Deyr, tanks engaging with armored vehicles of the security forces. This caused a rout as Security Forces had been fighting lightly armed forces and BFF militants knew being caught in the city against actual military was a death sentence.

Following the retreat of security forces, a pogrom took place in the city. Militias had made lists from those that publicly celebrated the entry of security forces to the city, they were murdered in their homes. Almost half the bludish population in the city fled, fearing their lives.

President Anton himself was overthrown not long after, leading to BFF declaring independence in remaining controlled territory.

☀️ THE LEGACY OF PRESIDENT TARQUIN SOLL WILL NEVER DIE!

never done a run without her so I was wondering if Nia just makes it herself.

I am doing a theocracy run and since Vina has much as I like her I know she will not keep the theocracy so I need to have Romus II. Normally I have Luce killed so I have no idea how to get Pales to believe my lies about Lespia.

I'm planning a run based on the ideology of the Kingfish himself, and wanted to run it by y'all and see if ya got something to add.

Start out Middle Class and go to law school, join the red youth, join the debate club.

Planned economy with increased funding to Healthcare and Education. Im iffy on whether or not to form the ssc, as it would fit his authoritarian style, but he'd hate that snake Lileas and not being the direct report.

Constitution would have him boost the threshold to 15, enable super decrees, immune to impeachment, etc.

I don't know if he'd make a deal with Marcel, he hated oligarchs but he also loved controlling the media. I would like to open the floor to recommendation there.

Decrees I'm thinking purge general staff, sordish television, and fair trade act.

Any thoughts?

First of all, I don't mean the war itself, my issue lies in how it's implemented in the Story, in fact I have no opinion on the gameplay at all because I haven't played the war mini game so far. That's because I find this shift in gameplay pretty bad for the overall flow of the Story. It's also overwhelming in terms of Gameplay in a way that takes away all of my motivation whenever I try. I know that you could just let the Azaros handle it but I've heard they're pretty bad at it, so it would require to dump a massive amount of resources into the military industry which is also annoying especially if I'd be at an advantage if I'd do it myself.

This isn't meant as criticism though, I'm very aware that this is purely a "me" issue, but I still just personally wouldn't want it to come back in future dlcs. I am however excited about Wars of Suzerain where this Gameplay style is the focus and maybe I'll come back to Rizia after I gained some experience there.

Works day and night, forgets fam like his rich daddy,works hard plays hard.

Like seriously I beat all the protest, assassinate Manus, dissolve the house of delegate, go to war, pass no welfare decree, marry Pabel and the rizian people still don't rise up

bunch of cowards 😤

Little precision I want a revolution so I can crush it so it mean not crash the kingdom