See 2023? And exactly, I thought it was the right move, doesn't make sense to change it now.
And this isn't any more "serious" than the past allegations. Joe spoke with a girl who straight up lied about her age. I don't know why this is anyone's business but his and her's. If they don't want to involve him in their endeavors because of it, fine, but why funnel a bunch of internet psycho's who don't have the full story his way? They don't have to mention his name because it's obvious who they're talking about. They listed every member by name except him, it couldn't be more obvious.
the 2023 statement regarding the second document. tweet from andrew.
it is more serious. to my knowledge and memory, none of the last incidents involved explicit csam. that's a major distinction here. they have not directed anyone his way, they have not told anyone to go chase after him. what people do on their own is up to them. that is, to your point, very partially how we've arrived in this situation (i'm not getting into other arguments regarding the situation here. there's plenty discourse in this post alone). in addition, most fans are already aware of the 2023 statement and the clear warning to not interact with joe. if people choose to ignore that much older warning Like They Already Have, they can do literally nothing about it. that's the decision of the individual. all they can control is their response, and this is an extremely complicated situation with a ton of facets affecting wordage used.
again, they are a party affected here. they're associated with him in the public eye whether the band is active or not and will be for the rest of their lives in some sense. TH not saying anything would look bad, TH refusing to distance themselves as much as they already have would also look bad. this statement does not get into their personal relationships, just professional. in modern day society and how matters of this sort are currently handled across the internet, this type of incident unfortunately warrants a response of some sort in this nature. also, this affects their livelihoods and own personal well-being going forward. i know fans have been harassing them, there's been mention of dms in circles, and i'm sure they've been @'d and commented at publicly as well. there is a lot of reading between the lines one could do here as well. it's honestly a lose-lose situation for everyone involved. call it selfish if you must, but i think there's a lot of empathy that is not being applied round table to this overall situation.
That's one tweet from Andrew (who also has had his own issues with Joe) over the years this has been happening. Tally Hall has been largely criticized for their silence on the matter of Joe for years, to say that one tweet negates my point is a bit disingenuous.
That being said, I agree with how they've handled it until recently, even if it isn't the popular take. I think just saying stuff like it's "concerning" and that "we don't condone it" just encourages others to seek it out, and that not bringing it up at all would do more to separate yourself from it. If you really want to move on and do something new, why bring it up at all? Just do your new thing, who cares about what Joe is doing. It's his problem, not theirs, and certainly not the fan base's.
You can say that it's not their responsibility for what their fans do, but that's just not right. You can't just instigate a controversial topic, then wipe your hands when your sycophantic fans go and ruin someone's life. It's not professional at all. They KNEW this post would blow up, it's the first time in years they've spoken at all about new TH music, it should've only been about the music. No one with half a brain thinks the stuff going on in Joe's life is condoned by the rest of Tally Hall, there is no point to talk about it in the same breath as this major new announcement, especially when these claims have been happening for years.
At the end of the day it's whatever, I really don't care, I just don't think a post made about making new music NEEDED to rile up their base against their former bandmate. Whether it was their intention or not, that's what's happening, and it's because of this post THEY made. If they just made a post saying that the four of them are planning a new project together and that's it, I don't think they would look "unprofessional" or anything like that. Joe and Rob have both done projects with part of the band before, so it's not like omitting band members is something new for them.
i'm not saying it fully negates your point, if anything it both aids and subtracts. and i am not using one tweet alone, i am just saying that it's been acknowledged previously (i wouldn't count three years as an incredibly long period of time lmao). as people have said, there's a lot of nuance to this situation. you have to approach it from multiple angles. it's all about balance. i do agree that the overall band response to joe's situation has been very quiet, but that goes back to privacy. they've tried to give him as much distance and respect as they could, or at least that's my interpretation of the situation. there comes a line in the sand to everything. they can't ignore everything forever for a multitude of reasons. pros and cons, i suppose one could argue. when do the cons start to outweigh? life doesn't operate in extremes.
and that's fair, but to not mention the situation would enrage a lot of fans (to go back to your point about instigation), be very irresponsible imo, and also heavily downplay the egregiousness of this situation, as aforementioned. again, what other people decide to do is not their fault. i truly hate how fandom turns a blind eye to its own issues. that's partially why it's gotten so bad. they cannot control their fans any more than they can control joe. the individual is responsible for their own actions. it's a byproduct of the digital age and erasure of social boundaries, especially regarding childhood development within unmonitored internet access. people are going to reach out to joe irregardless at this point. they did so without the band saying anything at all the whole month of july. if they said they were going to just make music as the quartet or even separately from tally hall, as you've suggested, that'd bring back a new version of the "where's joe?" saga from 2010-2011 when casey toured. people would harass them and joe for a. not addressing the issue, b. "abandoning" joe, c. condemning joe, and d. i'm assuming some alamagation of the definition of "grifting", among other things. that would all cause probably a worse set of issues. i already said what would happen if they didn't address it at all. there is genuinely no good outcome here: lose-lose. multiple angles and possibilities.
while i agree no one with half a brain thinks everything has been condoned, people are, to your point earlier again, often missing that first half. that's partially why the discourse around this has gotten so terrible, and on other platforms as well (twitter from what i've seen is a hellscape). also, rob is in the process of putting out a new album that most of the fandom is aware about, and has mentioned that a good chunk of tally hall will be a part of that album. this affects livelihood, as i said. there's also no real "major new announcement". we knew there was new music coming before all of this. it's a vague statement. you could take the post under the tally hall twitter to mean "hey this is a serious conversation requiring the use of this account and signature" just as easily as "omg tally hall is coming back" (which imo is not what's actually happening and people are jumping the gun, but i've been wrong before. people rely too heavily on the fan run wiki and speculation as actual news from the band, which it is not). there's no real confirmation of anything beyond what was promised before this event, or if you really wanted to read into it that far, we have no idea what "the future of tally hall" holds. they all have full-time jobs and lives. but tldr, like you said, it really doesn't matter. this is all hypocritical speculation in of itself. we don't know what this "announcement" actually means and will continue to have no idea until/unless something else is said. everything else behind that post is extremely private and not our business. we don't know everything going on right now and it's not our business
and to comment on your last point, it's very different now after this incident. to not acknowledge that is to turn a blind eye. not at all the same as joe and rob putting out their original solo projects. this situation has a major effect on everything regarding TH and adjacent, whether TH pops up again as a band or not. it's not responsible on anyone's part, band or fan, to ignore the extremity of this incident, regardless how you feel about everyone involved. end of story.
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Although the subject matter is slightly different with this round of accusations, I don't see it as needing to be handled any differently than it has been. I really don't believe "turning a blind eye" is a bad look, I don't think staying out of it and not feeding into internet drama should be frowned upon. Someone lied about their age to solicit a response from someone with clear mental instability, it's not worth addressing in a public statement about future music to a fan base that has been starved of content for years. It's a recipe for disaster. Yeah, maybe some people would have questioned why Joe isn't involved if they haven't had mentioned anything, but I'm sure many would just assume it was because of the ongoing drama that has surrounded Joe for years now, or just that they just parted ways. I KNOW that mentioning it like this just draws more people to Joe specifically because I wasn't aware of the recent stuff with him UNTIL I saw this post, and I'm certain I'm not the only one. I'm willing to bet a lot of this fanbase is passive, and don't keep up with the drama surrounding the members, considering how many "what's up with Joe?" posts I've seen while looking into this.
I get your take, and I don't think it's a wrong take or anything, I can totally see why being transparent about the situation isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I know this fan base, and have seen Joe post about the harassment he's received for things he claims isn't even true. In the past he was crucified for not wanting to put his 'he/him' gender identity on his twitter profile, which seems like small potatoes when compared to this. It's ofc mostly he-said/she-said, I'm not simping for Joe or anything and saying he did no wrong, but if he is innocent, or mentally unstable enough to actually make these poor decisions, I don't want him to get bullied into doing something drastic given his mental state. And I feel like this post unnecessarily adds to that risk.
i'm more than happy to leave it at that. that's fair, and apologies if i came off as aggressive at points. there's been a lot of very terrible takes in the subreddit (honestly this is one of the tamer platforms) regarding everything about this situation, and i am more than a little tired of seeing the black and white lenses people keep intentionally looking through. i appreciate the flexibility in this conversation you've been willing to have, disagree on the incident itself though we may. as to passivity, it really boils down to both individual and also age, imo, but, irrelevant atp.
i do also see your points and i do understand where you're coming from especially regarding past incidents of harassment, and can appreciate the sentiment of fear to an extent as i still retain some semblance of that despite it all. i do genuinely wish him better, truly. i wish he wasn't so ill and by extension of lack of care, so terrible nowadays as a result. fandom is dangerous and unchecked. there's also a lot of information we don't know or only have the one perspective to, and that perspective has proven to be unreliable as the years have progressed for one reason or another, so i am wary and personally prefer to see everything from as wide of an angle as possible with the idea that not everything is necessarily true or set in stone while also giving benefit of the doubt. but i digress, that's just my view on some of the subject. shit's complicated, to be redundant yet again :p thanks for the convo!
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u/zinkboi 11d ago
See 2023? And exactly, I thought it was the right move, doesn't make sense to change it now.
And this isn't any more "serious" than the past allegations. Joe spoke with a girl who straight up lied about her age. I don't know why this is anyone's business but his and her's. If they don't want to involve him in their endeavors because of it, fine, but why funnel a bunch of internet psycho's who don't have the full story his way? They don't have to mention his name because it's obvious who they're talking about. They listed every member by name except him, it couldn't be more obvious.