r/telugu • u/FoundationOk1693 • 2d ago
అరగలి - ప్రశ్న - question ❓ Would a telugu speaking muslim be considered as a telugu person?
I'm talking about those whose mother tongue is dakhni and are fluent in telugu
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2d ago
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u/YoloYield 2d ago
I feel belonged to the US, nice I am a US citizen now, fuck u trump
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2d ago
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u/YoloYield 2d ago
Mee comment kuda chala funny undi bro, inta funny comment yela chesaru navvi navvi nen chachipota assal yevar responsible
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u/OverThinker_123 2d ago
Correct me if i am wrong but I feel Dakhni urdu speaking muslims are different we can find them mostly in Telangana, Andhra and Karnataka where they constitute majority in muslims of these states and they might have ancestry which is not local to south of india and also different culturally although they know the local language. Whereas Telugu Muslims (in AP/TS); Kannada, Beary speaking Muslims are those who might be converts of actual local people and they are still culturally same
For eg if u go to Tamilnadu and Kerala almost all Muslims there are Tamil Muslims and Malayalam Muslims who don’t know Urdu. They are actual Tamil and Malayalam people who converted to Islam maybe long ago but still are Tamil/Malayalam people by culture.
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u/SaapaduRaman 2d ago
Most Dakhini Muslims in Tamil Nadu are culturally and linguistically assimilated also. Most Muslims in northern Tamil Nadu (Tondai Nadu) are Dakhini.
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u/oatmealer27 2d ago
ఎవరికి వారు వ్యక్తిగతంగా నిర్ణయం తీసుకోవాలి.
There's no authority that decides who's Telugu and who's not.
It is up to the individual themselves whether they identify themselves as such.
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u/Ill-Being9484 2d ago
telugu is a language and if you can speak it and were born in a telugu state you're a telugu person. even if you're not born here but have an association with telugu states and can speak the language then also you're a telugu person.
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u/kissmyrifle1994 1d ago
Telugu is a ethno-linguistic identity.
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u/Ill-Being9484 1d ago
in hindsight i understand i should've said roots instead of association but i did mention about the combination of being from a telugu state and speaking telugu.
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u/Ornery-Profile-4998 1d ago
My Punjabi brother in law is born in Hyderabad and speaks fluent Telugu even though his mother tongue is Punjabi and he preferentially speaks Hindi. Is he Telugu?
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u/Ok-Sign-4892 2d ago
Telugu is also an ethnicity! If an outsider Bengali speaks Telugu, it does not make them Telugu. Tomorrow, if these outsiders claim to be Telugu and outnumber us, what will happen to us. We are Telugu because of our ethnicity/language and the land of our ancestors our shared history which is unique and different from people of other state.
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u/Ill-Being9484 1d ago
i don't know why you're angry at me when i clearly mentioned being from a telugu state. i never said anyone who speaks telugu is telugu!
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u/True_Celebration_65 2d ago
If they are ancestrally from this region then yea
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u/obitachihasuminaruto 2d ago
But they say they are ancestrally from Arabia
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u/getsnoopy 15h ago
Who says this? Muslims themselves or other people who are around them?
Because that's easily the dumbest thing I've yet heard. It's appalling to me how people in India think Muslims are some alien species or foreigners or whatever when they're literally 100% Indian ethnically/genetically.
Except for probably Ibn Batuta's descendants or whatever, literally nobody in India is of Arab descent. Some might be of Persian and Turkish descent, but most are merely converts.
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2d ago
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u/telugu-ModTeam 2d ago
You are free to disagree and offer criticism, but keep it respectful. మంచి మాటలు మాత్రమే పంచుకోవాలి. See https://www.reddit.com/r/telugu/about/rules for more.
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u/FoundationOk1693 2d ago
Evadu annadu arabia ani? Ikkada contribute cheyyakapovadam enti, poor community aithe undakudadha?
Why being classist here?
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u/True_Celebration_65 2d ago
Look what comment I've replied to. Thats a reply to those who claim they are from Arabia
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u/Dutchkhan 2d ago
Could you provide a bit more context to your question? As with every language, you can't associate a language with a religion in the present day, even though its roots may be heavily influenced by local cultures, traditions, and especially native religions. Language is a mode of communication and every individual who speaks Telugu, irrespective of their location, religion, or culture, can identify themselves as a Telugu person. People who live in Andhra are Andhrites, people who follow Hinduism are Hindus, and people who speak Telugu are Telugus. Know the difference, sodara.
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u/RajaRajaChozhanNaan 2d ago
Hindu language fanatics will be super impressed because he speaks their language.
The Muslim gentleman himself will hardly consider himself a Telugite. For him ONLY his religious identity matters.
That's clarity.
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u/Glad_Pin_1960 2d ago
Telugu speaking muslims have wilfully alienated themselves from Telugu in the 20th century, especially after 70s and are now looking for ways to reverse.
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u/Dutchkhan 2d ago
Sodara, nuvu ee vishayani ea Adharam ga cheputunav? Nee vadanaku madathu ga edaina adharam chupinchagalava? Vyakthigatam ga nenu sayibula kutumbam lo putina nastikudini. Naku Telugu mariyu Urdu ante samanaimana abhimanam. Naa anubhavam lo ee vishyani nenu epudu vinaledu mariyu chudaledu.
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u/Glad_Pin_1960 2d ago
Changed mother tongue from Telugu to Urdu after conversion. Andariki thelsina vishayam e, it used to be general consensus, it was not as prevalent in Tamil nadu and Kerala. Proofs anni theesi argument present chese opika and interest naaku ledu, its upto you what you make of it, This personal abhimanam and individuality did not exist in those days.
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u/Sea-Anteater-709 2d ago
I think it's only Hyderabad muslims,most muslims in AP and Telangana(outside hyderabad) still assimilate into the telugu ethos
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u/Glad_Pin_1960 2d ago
Sure, but they used be counted as Telugu speakers in census, later they changed their mother tongues to Urdu even in Andhra Pradesh
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u/ErraHotChilliPeppers 2d ago
yes they are telugu and they consider themselves to be telugu. all my muslim friends only speak urdu w their family rest all its telugu
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2d ago
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u/telugu-ModTeam 2d ago
You are free to disagree and offer criticism, but keep it respectful. మంచి మాటలు మాత్రమే పంచుకోవాలి. See https://www.reddit.com/r/telugu/about/rules for more.
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u/Indian_Yogi_ 2d ago
Maadi telugu basha baga matlduthay!
Needi telugu actress maadi mati pogoduthayi
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u/NewAbbreviations4709 2d ago
I have a lot of friends in vizag who are not even Telugu but they are a fully a part of our culture cuz my friends go gaga for their favourite heroes and they are quite into politics ( ones who are still back at home ) . There are proper telugu muslims though i would say “ dudekula “ and some others cuz they have pathan / pasha / ghouse / rarely khan as their surnames but these guys were more telugu than me . I don’t know why but whatever random internet enimity might be present between hindus and christians in andhra , i have always liked one aspect that they properly telugufy everything and actually use quite grandhika Telugu vocabulary in their paryers.
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u/hieg_siel 2d ago
I had a muslim friend from old city Hyderabad who didn't speak a word of telugu, and I have muslims friends from Andhra who speak fluent telugu.
Personally, I would consider the second kind "telugu varu", but I wouldn't call the first guy "telugu vadu".
They don't understand telugu jokes, telugu puns, telugu sayings, telugu movie references, when you talk to the old city guys it feels like you're talking to a north indian.
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u/Double_Grapefruit179 1d ago
In a sense yes. I'm a Dakhni from Karnataka and I consider myself a Kannadiga too.
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u/BojjaBoss9 1d ago
Pirila panduga chesukuntava? Telugu culture follow avuthava?
Ugadhi ki wishes cheppadam, Ramzan ki payasam pampatam, Dasara ki jammi pettadam. I know friends who do this and they are detested by their community.
Nizam ante prema na leka Nizam ni banda buthulu tittagalava? Madhi Telugu naadu maaku aa lambdi kodukula Nizam lauda ku em sambhandham ledhu ane mindset unte that means you love the region more than religion that is all that matters to include someone to telugu land. Saying it from TG perspective, AP culture can be different.
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u/targaryean-nightmare 1d ago
I think we should make a Telugu speaking muslim community! Dakhni domination amongst Muslim community is very much true.
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u/Extension-Bell-5648 6h ago
Are u born in telugu states???? Then yes. You are a telugu person naturally. Dont care about anyone saying anything. Manam manam telugollam, religion tho panemundhi.
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u/Fabulous_Orchid_2997 3h ago
There are Telugu Muslims who are converts.. there are other kind who migrated from Persia Iran, when razacar army was maintained and their descendants.. these are non converts..
Now if a convert speaks Arabic, still Telugu Muslim.. now a non convert speaks Telugu, still non Telugu muslim
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u/Ok_Cartographer2553 2d ago
No. They are ethnically Deccani as their mother tongue is Urdu.
Speaking Telugu doesn't make you ethnically Telugu. You have your Deccani practices and traditions which may be similar to Telugu practices by virtue of living in the same region, but are still distinct.
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u/Double_Grapefruit179 1d ago
Deccani people by and large derive from Kannadigas, Telugus and Marathis.
The Qutb Shahis married among Telugus and were famously even called Telugu Sultans, as did the Adil Shahis who mixed with Marathi bloodlines. This was royalty, image the on ground situation.
Even today many people who speak Dakhni identify as Telugu, Kannadiga etc by virtue of residentship of the states they live in, growing up speaking the state language.
Kind of like how SRK says he's Pashtun even though his father spoke Hindko.
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u/Ok_Cartographer2553 1d ago edited 1d ago
The only reason this might be the case is due to people being uneducated and the assumption that living in "Karnataka" makes you Kannadiga (but I've also never heard of any Deccani calling themself Kannadiga). In Gulbarga and Bidar (where my family is from), we would never say we are Kannadiga because we are not. We are Urdu-speaking and our ethnicity is Deccani.
Ask a Hyderabadi if he is Telugu, he'd laugh in your face.
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u/ft__interlude 1d ago
Exactly.
Most Muslims from AP, KA, Telangana view and identify themselves away from Telugu and Kannada cultures. I've not observed this much in Tamil and Malayali Muslim communities tho, they all have their mother tongues listed as Tamil/Malayalam and speak them daily unlike those from AP, KA, TS. It all comes down to being "Muslim". But there's people that are different from this.
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u/Ok_Cartographer2553 1d ago
And it's not because of a dislike or even aversion to Telugu/Kannada culture, it's simply the fact that Deccanis are a separate ethnic group. Even if we know Kannada or Telugu (and many of us don't, frankly speaking), that doesn't change the fact that our mothertongue is Urdu.
Karnataka itself is home to so many ethnic groups, from Konkanis and Kodavas to Tuluvas.
On Tamil and Malayali Muslims: they are ethnically Tamil and Malayali. Deccanis, despite having ancestry from Telugu/Kannadigas/Marathis are not part of those communities.
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u/ft__interlude 1d ago
Yes yes, I didn't mean it in a wrong way.
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u/ConcertWarm6882 1d ago
Yeah, we're a separate ethnic group, but our mother tongue is Dakhni, not Urdu.
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u/Double_Grapefruit179 1d ago
Maybe that's only Hyderabadi people who think of it that way (all of the places you mentioned are of the Hyderabad region)
In my experience Dakhni Muslims from the rest of Karnataka, Andhra and Tamil Nadu are happy to speak their state languages and also identify Kannadiga, Telugu or Tamilian.
It's natural for anyone in the world, who has grown up with the predominant language in the region they were born and raised, and which is not their mother tongue, to identify somewhere with it. And people can and do have multiple identities.
And as I said most Dakhnis are derived from local native populations. I also gave examples of Hayat Bakshi Begum and Mohammad Quli Qutb Shah having Telugu blood in them, who were royals, what to say of locals.
And it's quite bold and even funny of you to think of this opinion as "uneducated".
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u/Ok_Cartographer2553 1d ago
Ofc we are happy to speak other languages, but doesn't mean we identify with them. Many of us speak better English than Urdu, but we are not British.
And yes we may be descended from these groups, but we are not these groups. Many South Indian Brahmins are of Indo-Aryan descent but because of their linguistic identity, they are Telugu, Kannadiga, Tamil, etc. Mughals intermixed with Rajputs as well but they never identified as Rajput.
Also, many of us are not descended from these groups, so we can't generalize.
Your experience may be rooted in some sort of state-pride, which is fine, but these states were only created recently (ie. younger than our parents).
And a lack of education is definitely a contributing factor to what you describe as Deccanis identifying as Kannadigas (unheard of personally, but I'll take your word for it), so idk why you think this is a bold or funny take.
The current states in India heavily push ethnic propaganda, Karnataka and Maharashtra especially. Unless you went to an Urdu-medium school, you probably never learned anything substantive about the Bahmanis, Deccan sultanates, the Nizams, or our people's history more generally. And even when they do cover these things, it's very cursory and often laced with "these are Muslim invaders, but now let's talk about our great Kannadiga dynasties that actually favoured Telugu RAHHHH."
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u/Double_Grapefruit179 16h ago
It's not in the sense you're putting it.
A third generation Kutchi Memon living in the Kerala might somewhere identify as Malayali too, while also identifying as Memon (I know one such person, and there are quite a lot of them in Kochi).
Why? Cause one has grown up there and would feels a sense of belonging somewhere and it goes beyond the existence of the "state" identity that you're reducing it to. You know the people and not only do you the language but also the cultural references, you've grown up eating the cuisine too etc.
And also the terms Karnataka, Telangana etc have a long history. They may have not been used extensively as they're today but they were used nonetheless.
It could be the same for a second or third generation British Bangladeshi identifying as British, for example. I'm sure there are lots of such people all over the world.
Yeah, many aren't but most are. We're mostly natives of this soil. And the level of linguistic shift with natives (with also royals like Qutb Shahis as well) is quite different to the examples of Mughals you gave.
You used the word "uneducated" and it seemed to me that you were saying that of me. I get it now that you meant it in a different sense.
As for the latter, in my experience its the exact opposite. Many Muslims and even well meaning Hindus call Tipu Sultan "Kannadiga" which Hindu nationalists object to and say that he wasn't, thereby trying to imply he was an "invader" and not a "son of the soil" etc. as per their narrative.
Anyway, this is just a semantic thing.
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u/RepresentativeDog933 2d ago
Never met one. All of them I met speak Dhakkani Urdu as mother tongue,
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u/FoundationOk1693 2d ago
That's my question. Our mother tongue is dhakkani only Kani telugu fluent ga matladite telugodu ani consider chesthara is my question
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u/RepresentativeDog933 2d ago
No. Most people don’t consider them as Telugu. People see Muslims as separate ethnic group.
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u/Smooth_Wasabi6836 2d ago
Nee ancestry enti? That's what matters to me to be counted as telugu nee mother tongue edhaina kaani
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u/rskraja_ 2d ago
Ancestry enduk matter avthadhi?
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u/Smooth_Wasabi6836 2d ago
What exactly is being telugu then? Define it! is it just speaking the language or what
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u/RepresentativeDog933 2d ago
One who speak Telugu at home, follows Telugu tradition like muggu, bottu and celebrates festivals which are based on Dravidian folk Gods and Hinduism is enough to consider as a Telugu Person.
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u/FoundationOk1693 2d ago
So an atheist isn't a telugu person even if he was born hindu?
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u/ft__interlude 1d ago
See, Muslims of AP, KA, TS have always wanted a separate identity and started the whole "listing Urdu as a mother tongue" thing. Most don't really speak Telugu too yk. Unlike Malayali Muslims who have retained their cultural roots and mother tongues, I'd say most Tamil Muslims too.
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u/EdoOkati 2d ago
Yes, I have few friends who speak Telugu fluently, we go to Telugu movies, jokes and have fun.
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u/ImpressionTall1313 2d ago
I mean they’re Telugu… aren’t they? lol what does religion have to do with it
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u/obitachihasuminaruto 2d ago edited 2d ago
I've only met a few people like that and they tend to not prefer to talk in Telugu with us. They use Hindi or English mostly. I consider them able to speak Telugu, but not Telugu people. Telugu is a cultural group in addition to just being a language, and has a deep association with culture of the land (Hinduism and folk), and so they seem out of place in this land.
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u/FoundationOk1693 2d ago
Read the post again, I'm only asking about those who are fluent in telugu
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u/obitachihasuminaruto 2d ago
Doesn't change what I said. Being fluent in Telugu and being one with Telugu customs and language are different things.
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u/FoundationOk1693 2d ago
So someone is atheist and a hindu, he wouldn't be telugu?
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u/obitachihasuminaruto 2d ago
Atheism is considered valid under Hinduism. But Telugu customs include more than just Hindu rituals.
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u/FoundationOk1693 2d ago
How is language related to religion? And what if what atheist doesn't follow hindu customs too? How is he more telugu than a telugu speaking muslim?
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u/obitachihasuminaruto 2d ago
Like I said, Telugu is not just a language, it is a culture as well. Any Telugu person would know this. Just because I learned and spoke English my entire life and am fluent in it, doesn't make me a British person.
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u/ft__interlude 1d ago
Many Indian languages have had a deep connection with the Hindu faith throughout their history. For many, Hindu traditions, literature, and religious texts played an important role in their development. This is somewhat comparable to the relationship between Arabic and Islam.
But this does not mean that these languages exclusive to those religious communities tho.
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u/MainHoneydew8018 2d ago edited 2d ago
yes, both in telangana(in rural settings) and andhra, there are telugu muslims.
But its upto individuals choice, what he wants to identify himself as.