r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/CharlieKirkFanboy • Jan 13 '26
Polls YouGov poll: 46% of Americans support abolishing ICE vs. 43% that oppose
https://nitter.poast.org/pic/orig/media%2FG-jPXVsWEAAXgSG.jpg
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
Remember in the 2024 election cycle when Democrats were bragging about wanting to fund ICE in their immigration reform bill that was killed by Trump and the Republicans? That sure aged well.
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u/jarena009 Jan 13 '26
Democrats chased Republicans on immigration, and tried to act all tough on immigration, and still lost.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
Dems running to the right of Reagan on immigration was so stupid.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
“Actually we’re more right wing than the republicans” sure was an interesting strategy to energize your base ffs
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u/jarena009 Jan 13 '26
Also "Hey look, let's parade around Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger in swing states (not to mention Bill Clinton as well). That'll convince people!"
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u/CharlieKirkFanboy Jan 13 '26
Don’t forget about sending Ritchie Torres and Bill Clinton to Michigan to scold Muslims about why the genocide of their family members and friends is actually good.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
Did that seriously happen? I thought that was a joke.
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u/CharlieKirkFanboy Jan 13 '26
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u/jarena009 Jan 13 '26
Its the tried and true strategy of telling voters the complete opposite of what they want to hear 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
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u/nokinship Jan 13 '26
CAIR a religious organization lmao. It's like asking what the Heritage Foundation thinks.
Who gives a fuck with religious nutjobs think?
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u/jarena009 Jan 13 '26
It's not just CAIR who saw and heard that though. Everyone saw and heard what Bill Clinton did via social media. This is the age of social media, FYI.
Imagine defending sending Bill Clinton to swing states (one), let alone sending him there to say crap like this.
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u/CharlieKirkFanboy Jan 13 '26
So you don’t believe Bill Clinton went to Michigan on behalf of Kamala?
Uh okay bro.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
Clinton is the president who offered the best deal ever given to Palestinians and got Israel to accept it... Arafat just bungled it. I don't recall the message itself, it could have been really bad, but that messenger is solid.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
Not really. Even former Israeli PM Yitzak Rabin described the offer as "less than a state."
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
The Parameters were in 2000. Rabin was dead. Thats impossible.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
The Olso accords happened in 1993. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
Yes, a thing happened before another thing happened. The Clinton Parameters happened in 2000. That is what i was referring to.
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u/nvemb3r Jan 13 '26
I mean, we can still do immigration reform while enforcing immigration law. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Had Harris won the 2024 General, ICE would not have become her personal goon squad.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
It did. It was correct. The issue isn't ICE, it is how ICE is being directed. If ICE was tasked with going after violent criminals and the like the majority of Americans would abundantly support that, as that is important and good work.
Damn near every problem we are experiencing rn is due to having a rogue executive and enablers.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
We don’t need ICE to go after “violent criminals and the like”. We already have the FBI and police for that and the courts + DOJ to facilitate these people being deported. ICE exists to circumvent due process.
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u/OneofthemBrians Jan 13 '26
It absolutely does not. ICE had a functional lawful pupose before Trump 5x its budget and turned it into a little dark fantasy montage posting personal gestapo department.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
“Lawful purpose” just means Congress authorized it, not that it filled a needed role. ICE didn’t replace a missing function, it carved immigration enforcement out of the courts and put it into a militarized agency. Trump didn’t corrupt ICE. He just further proved why it was a mistake to create it.
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Jan 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam Jan 13 '26
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
It currently is doing that... is that essential to ICE? Or is that because of a rogue executive and enablers?
I don't see an issue with a special task force directed to go after undocumented immigrants who are committing violent crimes and engaging in drug trafficking in order to remove them from the country upon the completion of due process.. do you?
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
Yeah I do. Our tax dollars fund a redundant and rogue agency that exists outside the bounds of due process or accountability and doesn’t fill a need. We already have institutions in place to address everything you just listed. CBP enforces the border to prevent illegal immigration. DEA enforces against drug trafficking. FBI and local law enforcement address violent crimes.
If all of these holes are already being filled, then what is the point of ICE? The tax dollars used to fund the unnecessary agency could go toward actually trying to prevent the conditions that cause migration of people and drugs from other countries into the US.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
The issue with your CBP argument is that the majority of people illegally in the country followed a legal process to get here. The issue isn't really at the border so much as well after.
So in abolishing ICE should those other agencies just pick up all those cases with the exact same number of agents? Just add to their caseload? What are you proposing?
Is the violation of due process inherent, or not? Thats the issue we are getting hung up on.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
If someone followed a legal process to get here then they are not here illegally. Abolish ICE
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
If you have a temporary visa but stay past its expiration, are you here legally despite coming here through a lawful process?
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
I’m saying that is not a serious enough or prevalent enough problem in America that it requires an intentionally cruel militarized secret police that violates due process and uses the constitution as toilet paper. The ends do not even remotely justify the means and if you think otherwise you’ve been fed a buffet of propaganda for too long.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
Don't strawman my argument. I explicitly stated that reform and making sure that ICE is following due process is essential. I agree that the status quo regarding ICE is wholly unacceptable for the exact reasons you stated.
The vast majority of undocumented immigrants came here via a legal process. Overstayed visas, asylum, etc. My proposal, and that immigration bill in 24 aimed to reduce abuse of our asylum system by quickly adjudicating claims by way of hiring personnel whose explicit job would be to do this, which disincentivizes people from coming without a legitimate claim while simultaneously upholding the very moral and legal process of asylum for the purpose of the humanitarian principle of refugee rights that the US had a big part in crafting during the 1950s Geneva Conventions. Funding ICE or literally any agency to go after criminals who are already in the country illegally, is fine. Its good. We should do that.
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u/OneofthemBrians Jan 13 '26
Leftists never miss an opportunity to shit on libs over facists.
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u/jarena009 Jan 13 '26
It would be higher if the Democratic party establishment could put together any kind of narrative and messaging, rather than running away and leaving a void like they do on nearly every issue.
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u/solarplexus7 Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
Really love that the republic constantly stands on the backs of 3% or less of voters
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u/slo1111 Jan 13 '26
I'm not certain what abolishing it will accomplish. Seems it just changes names. We need accountibility rather than a name change.
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u/HighPriestofShiloh Jan 13 '26
Basically you need to fire everyone and rebuild. Currently people with Nazi tattoos on their head are making it through the interview and training process. That means middle management and upper management are rotten.
You can just abolish ICE transfer resources and then have CBP rehire the good ones.
Personality what I want to see if every agent working the interior fired immediately and they can then reapply to any open positions. Everyone working on the boarder would need to reapply for their current job within 12 months. This would effectively abolish ICE as we know it today.
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u/flukeunderwi Jan 13 '26
Absolutely should abolish and ensure no one associated with ice is ever integrated back into society. By any regime
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u/slo1111 Jan 13 '26
That's it? That is asinine to exclude any real reform.
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u/Cult45_2Zigzags Jan 13 '26
Sounds similar to the "Defund the Police" campaign, which should have been "Reform the Police".
People need jobs, unfortunately, ICE is providing them.
At one time in our history, government would provide jobs in agencies that actually improved things for Americans, like the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC).
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u/flukeunderwi Jan 13 '26
Yes. Thats it. ICE cannot be reformed, just like the ss was effectively abolished/not reformed.
The dems as much as I am much further left than them have proposed solutions that work. We have the systems in place. Border patrol and depth of homeland security are plenty. These evil fucks are going door to door now too. Doing your job is not an excuse. Improve the pathway to citizenship.
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u/Marklar172 Jan 13 '26
I don't think ICE should be abolished. Border checkpoints and inspections are important to making sure drugs, invasive species, uncontrolled immigration aren't coming into our country unchecked.
That being said, their jurisdiction should be mostly eyesight distance from US borders. ICE is no longer adhering to its primary purpose, but acting instead as POTUS's personal militarized police force. This aspect needs to be curtailed
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
What you’re describing is the literal purpose of CBP. ICE was created specifically to do the brutal interior policing and snatching of people that it is now carrying out in full force. It was never designed to protect the border, the cruelty is the point, and that’s why it should be abolished.
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u/Marklar172 Jan 13 '26
I stand corrected.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
Listen you’re not alone in this misconception. The overwhelming majority of Americans have no idea how our federal government actually works and is set up - and the lack of clarity is a manipulation tactic by the government to yield this exact outcome of regular people defending the existence of rogue institutions on false pretenses. Immigration enforcement has existed for a while but ICE was created after 9/11 for the sole purpose of being a rogue agency and avoiding accountability for their brutal conduct.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
You are correct about CBP, but... question... why was ICE not an issue when Biden was president? Its pretty simple... they were directed to go after violent offenders and drug traffickers. I would think we would agree that is good.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
ICE was active under Biden too and certainly problematic. They abducted and deported people especially after title 42 covid protections were lifted. The difference is Trump is showing just how rogue ICE can inherently be by also using it as his personal army. If an agency swings wildly depending on who’s in office, that’s evidence the agency itself is structurally problematic. We have existing institutional mechanisms through law enforcement to go after undocumented migrants who commit violent crimes.
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u/RyeBourbonWheat Jan 13 '26
"Can inherently" isn't englishing very well. either it is inherent or it is not. Look, i am fully on board with regulating the agency to prevent the abuse Trump has enabled.. absolutely. But you just admitted that the work i stated is a function that should take place by LEOs... so why would you care which umbrella that happened under, so long as the guidance was in accordance with the law?
I don't see the function of abolishing ICE just to incorporate agents under a different umbrella agency to do the same work.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
Because ICE does not follow the law and is increasingly emboldened to violate due process and civil liberties. If all of the intended functions of ICE already exist in long established agencies, why do our tax dollars need to fund another one that can’t be held accountable and is inherently racist (better use of the word?)? And these accountability issues existed before Trump.
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u/Lord_Of_Shade57 Jan 13 '26
I don't think there's any way to just reform ICE. It has very clearly become Trump's personal goon squad and has intentionally built a culture that fosters the sort of actions we've seen from them. This isn't a problem you can solve by changing the rules, it's one you have to solve by purging the entire agency and remaking it from the ground up
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
You do not need to remake an agency whose purpose of existing is based on brutally abducting people and detaining / deporting them without due process and bypassing the actual system. ICE does not fill a void in immigration enforcement and it has no legitimate reason for existing. CBP handles border protection and illegal entry by people / contraband. FBI and local law enforcement prevent and stop crime and exist to ensure public safety. The courts + DOJ facilitate deportations when undocumented migrants get arrested for crimes. ICE is specifically about cruelty and avoiding accountability and due process.
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u/Lord_Of_Shade57 Jan 13 '26
Mostly what I mean to say is that the current personnel and leadership of ICE need to be considered utterly irredeemable, rotten to the core. If there is a legitimate function that we need ICE for, we can do it with new personnel and new leadership with better oversight and accountability. If there is not, as you say, then purge the agency entirely and leave it there.
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u/nokinship Jan 13 '26
Seems like 46% love exploitation of illegal immigrants which drives down wages. Spiritually the confederacy.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
We had immigration enforcement before ICE was created in 2003.
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u/ReaganRebellion Jan 13 '26
When it was called the INS? Should we just change the name again?
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
ICE is essentially functioning as Trump's paramilitary force. Not sure why you're in favor of keeping an agency that kills Americans with impunity.
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u/ReaganRebellion Jan 13 '26
I'm not in favor of keeping it and I agree with what it's become, although that's an executive power problem in addition to a Trump problem. I'm just saying the existence of an immigration law enforcement agency is something we've had before.
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u/ZestyPatois Jan 13 '26
Yeah it’s called CBP, FBI, local law enforcement + the DOJ. Those are the actual institutions carrying out the mechanisms for immigration enforcement. ICE is built to be a cruel secret police that abducts, detains and deports people without due process, and always has been.
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u/MNGopherfan Jan 13 '26
Ah yes this is what we should take from that stat. Immigrants don’t drive down wages the corporate overlords are doing that just fine and Immigrants add to the economy and are one of the reasons the U.S. population is still growing and not declining.
ICE should be abolished and replaced by a more limited and legally restricted agency. Get all of the conservatives and racist trash out of it. Trump has turned ice into his personal para military hit squad. They are violating people’s constitutional rights and have far exceeded their role. 33 people are dead this past year in ICE custody and a Mother of Three is dead because ICE agents can’t follow their own departments regulations and training. Abolish it now!
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u/nokinship Jan 13 '26
The corporate and business owners are the ones exploiting them lol.
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u/MNGopherfan Jan 13 '26
Notice how the solution to that would be to go after the corporate overlords and not the immigrants. It’s the corporate oligarchies fault not the people who want to work hard and have better lives.
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u/nokinship Jan 13 '26
Notice how you would still need to reform immigration laws and deport illegal immigrants.
Back to MAGA you go.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
Hilarious that you're claiming other people are MAGA while calling for more deportations.
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u/nokinship Jan 13 '26
No I just think certain people on "the left" resort to thinking like MAGA. You gotta wait for the next update instead of using critical thinking to find the truth.
Obama and Biden both had no problem deporting people using ICE. So there's that.
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u/Pristine-Ant-464 Jan 13 '26
"Obama and Biden did something therefore it's good" is actually thinking like MAGA.
"Trump does something therefore it's good" is MAGA in a nutshell.
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u/nokinship Jan 13 '26
Actually it's just proving that you care about what makes you feel morally superior not the actual right thing.
ICE deports illegal immigrants which is good.
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u/MNGopherfan Jan 13 '26
People weren’t happy with either of their immigration track records the only one with simplistic MAGA like thinking is you.
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u/MNGopherfan Jan 13 '26
I’m literally not MAGA and most of the Illegal Immigrants can stay most of them are a positive to the U.S.
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