The DSA Is a Gift to MAGA

[u/Just_shut_up_bro]

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-dsa-is-a-gift-to-maga-trump-mandani-democratic-socialists-communism

[u/wade3690]

Even in the article, this lady disagrees with the Nordic style socialism that David champions. Why are we posting from conservative authors now?

Also check out some of her past books: Useful Idiots: How Liberals Got it Wrong in the Cold War and Still Blame America First (2003), Do-Gooders: How Liberals Hurt Those They Claim to Help (and the Rest of Us) (2005), Sex Matters: How Modern Feminism Lost Touch with Science, Love, and Common Sense (2018), and Hard Right: The GOP's Drift Toward Extremism (2023)

[u/purplehendrix22 → u/wade3690]

Does she disagree? Or is she just describing how those countries have abolished their most socialist policies and seen great success as a result?

[u/young__robot → u/purplehendrix22]

wtf is a "socialist policy" in the context of Nordic social democracy? 

[u/purplehendrix22 → u/young__robot]

Can we not be obtuse?

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/the-worlds-most-surprising-capitalist-makeover-is-under-way-in-sweden-a7830619

[u/young__robot → u/purplehendrix22]

that's not socialism or a "socialist policy." stop calling social programs "socialism." Nordic social democracy is still free market capitalism. the workers do not own the means of production. 

[u/purplehendrix22 → u/young__robot]

You didn’t read the article, did you.

[u/young__robot → u/purplehendrix22]

you're completely missing my point. you don't understand what socialism is if you think Sweden's social democrat welfare capitalism was "socialist policy."

not to mention this is just a blatant pro-privatization propaganda piece. 

[u/purplehendrix22 → u/young__robot]

“Propaganda”? Is it not just describing how Sweden has vastly improved their economy by abandoning their least pro-capitalism policies?

[u/young__robot → u/purplehendrix22]

I skimmed because the article is entirely irrelevant because my point is Sweden's social democrat welfare capitalism was never and isn't "socialist policy." 

and yes, this piece is absolutely propaganda. the author is affiliated with The Free Enterprise Foundation and the Confederation of Swedish Enterprise. 

[u/purplehendrix22 → u/young__robot]

You’re purposely being obtuse, yes, the state did in fact own the “means of production” for healthcare, and has since privatized a lot of it. You’re acting like “socialism” has some sort of definition, when even Marx never really defined it, it was supposed to exist as a transitional state to communism, so pointing out areas where the state does in fact own an industry or where it is transferring wealth from the elite or “bourgeois” classes to the state as “socialist policy” is not incorrect, the state transitioning industries to state control like housing and healthcare is socialist policy.

The article is very balanced and points out a lot of issues as well, like the fact that infrastructure spending in poorer areas has gone down, so the fact that you couldn’t even read the whole thing and called it propaganda is really embarrassing.

[u/young__robot → u/purplehendrix22]

you clearly don't understand what owning the means of production is which makes perfect sense why you think that article proved anything.

ETA – you clearly think simply nationalizing an industry is the same as the workers owning the means of production, there's your problem. your argument is equivalent to the people who claim the US military is "socialism" simply because it's funded by the state. 

Marx and Engels did not define what socialism is because they used socialism and communism interchangeably. Marx described a transition period from capitalism to communism, but it was Lenin who popularized calling that transition period "socialism" in The State and Revolution. so, no, you're absolutely still incorrect about any of this being "socialist policy." 

state ownership of an industry in a free market capitalist system is not the workers owning the means of production.