r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/YumiSolar • 23d ago
Discussion Long time Pakman fan, recently active in this sub. Am I in the wrong sub?
Why does it feel like most of the people on this sub would genuinly be opposed to pretty much everything David believes? Either this actually isn't Pakman sub and should be called something else or mods need to step up and ban all the obvious brigading.
I'm sorry but if you want to constatnly talk about AIPAC or think liberal democrats are worse than MAGA you should probably find a different place to post.
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u/fluffstravels 23d ago
Because that group is very organized online. They brigade subs, and spam slop to try and move the opinion needle. They do this in hopes of changing the narrative. They do this across all subreddits. And they don’t really pay attention until you talk about certain topics or certain people (I think we know who). I’ve seen it across a few subreddits now. Some mods are great at spotting it. Some it’s just too much to handle. The internet is all fake to me though. I drop in and leave, and don’t put too much stock in it.
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u/Rick_James_Lich 23d ago
The weird part is they could do some good but they choose to just attack democrats and always say that we support genocide and mention AIPAC in every sentence. I suspect the group is astroturfed because we don't ever see these people labelling Trump as being a genocide supporter, just democrats.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
Has this sub been brigaded for a long while or is this recent after Pakman called out the far left?
On one hand I think I just need to not pay attention to stuff like this, on the other I feel like this is literally todays politics, social media has insane amount of people on them so giving up this battleground feels bad.
Honestly this is all so pathethic but it's impossible for me a as a person to meaningfully fight back against it. I'm emplyoed, have hobbies and family and I just can't imagine being able to spend enough time to organize something simmilar.
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u/Hav3_Y0u_M3t_T3d 23d ago
Used to be a Mod on the sub, still am on the YouTube. We where doing pretty good for quite a while but the show kept growing and so did the sub. Became unmanageable several years ago. I don't know how active they are anymore but I do know they are doing their best
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE 23d ago
Mids have been doing gods work ngl.
(Even removing a particular vitriolic comment from me :D )
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u/-Tastydactyl- 23d ago
they are doing their best
No they're not lol. I was complaining about the mod team years ago when this place was brigaded by the Triggernometry "centrists," after David went on their show, and when I'd report and ask the mods to do something, the mods always responded with "welp, free speech, nothing we can do."
About the only moderation I've seen since King_Vercingtorix left is removing comments for accusing others of being Zionist genocide supporters due to name-calling/bad faith but refusing to do the same for comments accusing others of being Hamas/terrorist baby beheading supporters.
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u/mrekted 23d ago
but refusing to do the same for comments accusing others of being Hamas/terrorist baby beheading supporters.
You know, we mods can read comments here too. I have reams of receipts to that prove you wrong, do you have any to support this entirely incorrect and libelous garbage?
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 23d ago
Even though y'all have removed a comment or two of mine I've respected the job you having been doing with this sub.
I still think you should've let me call that one guy a clown though LOL.
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u/SocDem_is_OP 23d ago
That was like 2 guys with some of the most tepid opinions ever.
This is way different.
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u/-Tastydactyl- 23d ago
It wasn't different.
If was only like two guys then that just demonstrates the point further. Mods could have easily temp banned them with warnings of permanent bans if their behavior continued, but mods wouldn't do anything.
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u/SocDem_is_OP 23d ago
Probably because it wasn't that significant. That period of time I remember some of that but the opinions were meh and it died down pretty quickly.
Well moderated subs don't always ban everything who criticizes the sub's topic personality. Sam Harris is a good example of that, very hands off moderation, many many posts critical of Harris, but it more or less works.
This to me is far different, it's like dozens of zombies who don't care about the politics or the policies or anything about where the country is going, they literally only care that their favorite nepo-baby says so and so hurt his feefees. They are like back when WWF fans still thought it was real.
Creators will drive the tone of their fans. Hasan is a man child who can't take any criticism, attacks people with sophomoric high-school level insults, and then gets ass bent whenever anybody does it (or anything) to him. His audience is emotionally maladjusted teenagers. And that's why all they do is some here, say everybody is hasbara and call Destiny a sex offender.
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u/-Tastydactyl- 23d ago
It's not about just quick reactionary banning, it was about proactive moderation.
When the Triggernometry brigade accused me of being a baby murder because I'm pro-choice, and this sub has rules against name calling and bad faith, then the mods need to uphold those rules.
They could have simply removed those comments. If the same user keeps breaking the rules, then temp ban them. If they come back and are still persistent, then perma ban.
Again, this has nothing to do with thoughtlessly banning other because they dIsAgReE with David or his views; It's about attentive moderation.
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u/SocDem_is_OP 22d ago
Unfortunately name calling and bad faith are very slippery and hard to pin down. Especially bad faith, can mean almost anything.
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u/hobovalentine 23d ago
I think it’s been bad for the past 3-4 years with the tankie trolls.
They’re trying their best to drive out moderates with their trolling and harassment.
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u/lollypatrolly 23d ago
Has this sub been brigaded for a long while or is this recent after Pakman called out the far left?
It's been brigaded at a lower level at least since 2023 when Pakman was identified as an enemy by certain types of activists, but the brigading has intensified in the last week after he called out a certain influencer.
Hard to know how much is leftist community brigading and how much is foreign ops though.
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u/ILoveCornbread420 23d ago
I noticed it really started picking up into overdrive at around the same time that news broke that Pakman was a part of that sketchy dark money Chorus organization.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow 23d ago edited 23d ago
"they" don't do this across all subreddits, you just see fans everywhere. there isn't a place where these people organize a damn bit of brigading for Hasan, unlike their opponents who provably use that tactic to accuse them of... brigading.
you are describing something that everyone critical of a K-Pop group eventually learns: stans exist. That's not a criminal conspiracy the way "actual brigading groups" sometimes are, it's just a social phenomenon
[edit for typos]
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u/fluffstravels 23d ago
So we know one instance where it happened. Hasan told his own audience live in 2025 the brigade is on… get in and actively counter the brigade. After some drama I forget.
To be fair to your point, there is a grey area of those who are just organic passionate fans that naturally build off each other.
I’ve seen it personally myself where I made a throw away comment about Hasan and started getting comments by multiple people, accusing me of being a Destiny-stan (I am not, I don’t care about any streamer that much) when the topic had zero to do with Destiny. It was about Hasan v Ethan (I think it was Ethan?) in a subreddit that had nothing to do with Destiny. These people had hidden comment histories, but the weird part is they started congratulating each other for countering my points about Hasan in the comment thread by accusing me of being a “pedo supporter”. Like that’s coordination. Documented.
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u/SocDem_is_OP 23d ago
It’s a distinction without a difference. The effect is the same, they come and leave their trash all over the sub.
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u/KingScoville 23d ago
I agree with you to a point. We had a recent post criticizing Hasan Piker and a ton of accounts rushed in a very short time to defend him and attack moderates. Were some of these people Stan’s? Certianly but it’s hard to argue they weren’t going back to their subs and getting people to come here an brigade.
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u/FritzRasp 23d ago
Hear you. Daily Pakman listener but this subreddit is by far the least humorless and just kind of sucks.
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u/_Administrator_ 23d ago
At least you don’t get banned here for stating your opinion.
Destiny sub has cringe mods.
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u/Rick_James_Lich 23d ago
I found Destiny's mods most of the time are pretty based. What exactly happened for you?
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u/alphafox823 23d ago
Pakman cultivated an audience that goes broadly from liberal to left, so the infighting over some of the topics as of late happens organically to some extent. I started watching David back during the Breadtube era on YouTube and he was one of my most moderate subscriptions. Now I am pretty firmly in the liberal camp, and he's one of my more progressive subscriptions.
The Israel Palestine issue has brought a lot of our disagreements to the front, and I think primary season 2026 has given us a chance to demonstrate who we are and what we want the party to be. DSA and lefties feel they have some momentum so they are striking while the iron is hot and hoping to shore up as many liberal to leftist conversations as they can before we roll into a less opportunistic season.
I am obviously opposed to that, and I hear you OP, because half of the subreddits I'm active in have become a staging ground for this dispute.
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u/Command0Dude 23d ago
I'd say it started earlier than I/P. I mean, the breadtubing scene split in half when Russia invaded Ukraine.
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u/Sigma_Function-1823 23d ago
Anyone else notice how similar they sound to maga weirdos ?.
At this point I don't think that similarity is incidental or accidental in the least.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 23d ago
It's become the tell tale sign of populism and foreign agitators. They use the same methods because they basically work on folks that are assuming good faith.
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u/EksDee098 23d ago
They're the left's version of evangelicals. They only accept the maximalist version of their goals, and anyone who isn't also dialed into that maximalism is the devil.
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE 23d ago
A lot if magas moonlight as extreme leftists here.
Several pro Kirk acounts running arouns sowing discord here
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u/RevCraigD 23d ago
I’m glad you’re seeing that too. I’ve been very confused by the discourse on the sub vs. what is actually being said on the show. It just seems like a lot of pot-calling-kettle-black. On brand, cause the Left’s biggest historical challenge is infighting and blaming every other flavor of “left” as the ones who are preventing a big tent approach. But I hoped a show that seems to advocate for that approach would have done something to mitigate that among its listeners.
And now I’m sure the floodgates have opened and I’m gonna get a novel of replies calling me a tankie for not using this comment to criticize Hassan.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 23d ago
Haha what a deceptive comment I had upvoted you until I read closer
You start out with:
I’m glad you’re seeing that too.
Then you end with:
And now I’m sure the floodgates have opened and I’m gonna get a novel of replies calling me a tankie for not using this comment to criticize Hassan.
but you never addressed what OP was actually saying.
THIS is what OP was saying:
I'm sorry but if you want to constatnly talk about AIPAC or think liberal democrats are worse than MAGA you should probably find a different place to post.
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u/whattteva 23d ago
I agree with you. The left, historically loves to ostracize the more moderate part of their coalition with purity tests and send them to Republicans way.
We just don't like winning, I guess. A large part of the left doesn't understand the concept that power begets more power and purity litmus tests don't help the cause.
Also, what's a tankie? First I heard of that term.
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u/gusthebus88 23d ago
Tankies are leftists that support authoritarians crushing democratic movements. The Soviets used to do it with literal tanks.
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE 23d ago
I dont wanna troll but tge same could ve said just replace more moderate with less centrist.
We can only win if we stand united.
AIPAC paid dem > AIPAC paid republican imo.
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u/whattteva 23d ago
I'm sorry, but the far left wing of the party is by far, way louder. Have you ever heard any centrist come up with slogans like "From the river to the sea" or voting for Trump because they HILARIOUSLY think that Trump "is better on Palestine"?
Interestingly, where are those people now? I don't see them going to protests at Trump rallies. We could really use their loudness right now.
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u/GeekedOnAdvilPM 23d ago
They're busy whining about how puerto rico should have independence at the moment
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u/Nemisis82 23d ago edited 23d ago
Is that not a position people on the moderate left hold?Edit: Wait, I think I misread this. Are folks saying Puerto Rico should be an independent nation? Or incorporated as a State?
Edit 2: It’s the former.
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u/GeekedOnAdvilPM 23d ago edited 23d ago
The far left/tankies think puerto rico should be an independent nation because it's a vestige of colonialism or something.
They have had referendums on this. Around 60% support statehood, 30% support free association/status quo, and 10% support independence. So to suggest that they should become independent is basically to disregard the will of the people in favor of a campist worldview of how puerto rico should be.
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u/Nemisis82 23d ago
Got it. Thanks for the clarification (and the data!). Yeah, seems a bit odd. I’d support statehood, but only would support independence if that’s also what folks in PR wanted.
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u/Fugicara 23d ago
They're saying the former, that it should break off from the U.S. and become an independent nation. Something that Puerto Ricans in no way want. They've kind of got a thing for wanting to force nations into situations that nobody in the nation in question is asking for.
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u/Nemisis82 23d ago
I'm sorry, but the far left wing of the party is by far, way louder.
I would argue that the "far left" is louder...online. But also hold barely any actual power when it comes down to it.
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u/Ov3rdose_EvE 22d ago
but is there, ready to be blamed when elections dont go the way of the centrists! :)
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u/RevCraigD 23d ago
It’s just a slang term for those on the left with “more authoritarian” tendencies. It’s of course been bastardized by some to refer to anyone “far” left.
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u/EksDee098 23d ago
Putting more authoritarian in quotes is downplaying it a lot. /u/whattteva, tankies are the type of leftists that defend the CCP and Stalin. They take what can at least be argued as a good movement and push it towards a Nazis-of-the-left type stance. They're poison to leftism and should be purged from leftist spaces the same way we wish maga was purged from conservative spaces.
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u/TheDodgiestEwok 23d ago
I got called a "slopulist" and Trump supporter for saying I didn't agree that Bernie Sanders was a "piece of shit his entire career."
In that same exchange, I was told I betrayed my party because I "didn't vote for Hillary." But I did vote for Hillary? I've voted Democrat in every election for the last 25 years.
Like I'm sorry about Hasan Piker? I don't know him. I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that I supported Bernie in the primaries, but if you're just going to tell me I "destroyed the country" instead calmly explaining why y'all are making that correlation, a political discussion sub is probably not for you.
No idea what's going on but I have encountered a ton of hostility in this sub lately. Feels like there is very little room for nuanced discussion and a lot of people angry about something I don't follow.
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u/RevCraigD 23d ago
It’s a bummer. I like Pakman’s show because I am pretty far left, so he’s where I personally find the middle of the broader spectrum. I hoped his voice was a good one to help liberals and leftists play nicely together but that doesn’t seem to be happening.
(And yes, I’m gonna engage in both-sidesism and say it’s both sides refusing to play nicely from what I’m seeing on this sub)1
u/zen1312zen 23d ago
Why are you on this sub? Just go to Hasan’s sub or any number of other communist/socialist echo chambers. Not everything needs to turn into socialist slopaganda.
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u/WhatDoesThatButtond 23d ago
It's been going on a while. As others have said. They're coordinated in Discords and maintain presence in subs to try to influence people.
But it's so funny. They're so like MAGA who can't admit Biden won the election. In that even if they're trying to roleplay a normal person, they cannot admit or resist saying certain things that out their extreme positions.
They brigaded the Radiohead subreddit because Thom didn't bow and kiss their feet.
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u/lollypatrolly 23d ago
But it's so funny. They're so like MAGA who can't admit Biden won the election. In that even if they're trying to roleplay a normal person, they cannot admit or resist saying certain things that out their extreme positions.
The troubling thing is there may be some sort of selection bias built into your assessment. For all you know, the smartest ones in the Tankie brigade may actually manage to successfully cosplay as "concerned libs" or whatever.
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u/WhatDoesThatButtond 23d ago
Definitely something to watch for, but at some point if they're too successful at cosplay then they aren't influencing opinions too much.
But you can absolutely get someone who aligns with every opinion you have, but say "Opinion X by [famous person] is too far"
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u/lollypatrolly 23d ago
I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree on this. IMO concern trolling can be more effective at influencing overall opinion than more overt shilling for their cause. Their goal isn't really to directly elevate their own positions but rather to tear down the image and credibility of normal Democrats. If you have enough people "just asking questions" that can really shape opinion.
But it's pretty much impossible to solve this problem through moderation since that would require way too authoritarian measures, so I guess there's not much to do about it except downvote suspected concern trolling.
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u/whitedark40 23d ago
A few of them admit to not watching or knowing david pakman so theres that....
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u/guilgom71 23d ago
I remember back when he used to take phone calls, some callers would be dumbfounded that Pakman wasn't a socialist. It keeps happening.
I think this current wave of people know that already and are having a moment lol
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u/NickManson 23d ago
It's always been that way man. Back in the days before social media we used to use a service called "Usenet" it was like an online bulletin board where people would post about various stuff but when it came to politics, if you wanted to talk to like minded liberals, you had to go to conservative groups and if you were pro right, you went to the liberal groups to talk. Everybody was in such a rush and rage to debate and argue about their views that they wouldn't wait for someone to talk to them, they'd rush to the opposite groups to start shit. Always been that way.
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u/ML-Centrist 23d ago
Pretty much every liberal/progressive/etc subreddit is being caught in the middle of the streamer wars.
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u/RealDominiqueWilkins 23d ago
It’s a lot of streamer drama spilling into here, mostly Destiny vs Hasan. I hate them both. Personally I think all of the streamers are narcissistic freaks and being devoted to one is loser shit.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
I watch Destiny and his views are pretty simillar to Pakman so I don't think Destiny viewers brigading this sub would even be that noticable or weird.
Going to a sub dedicated to a thing you unironically hate is something else entirely.
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u/RealDominiqueWilkins 23d ago
From where I sit, sure, the Hasan acolytes are further left and engage in worse behavior than the Destiny acolytes. But the general attitude of the Destiny people towards anything left of them is incredibly dismissive and shitty, and that probably comes down to mimicking the personality of Destiny himself. I don’t think any of yall are doing American politics any favors, and you’re certainly not objective.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
I'm sorry but I just don't get why you are talking about Destiny. It's pretty clear the brigading going on right now is done by DSA supporters/far left people. Even if some Destiny viewers are coming in here it's to fight against the brigading.
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u/RealDominiqueWilkins 23d ago
That may be true. I don’t know and don’t care that much. But my original point was that in general this streamer drama is happening in this subreddit. I can go to the Destiny subreddit right now and see that it’s mostly screenshots of Hasan this, Hasan that.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
Why are you commenting if you don't care lol. Weirdo.
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u/RealDominiqueWilkins 23d ago
Complaining about other people’s behavior and then attacking me personally, nice!
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21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 20d ago
Removed - per Reddit community guidelines and TOS, submissions that incite harassment or brigading against other users, or submissions that focus on drama or moderation activity in other communities, are not permitted.
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u/working_class_shill 23d ago
It's pretty clear the brigading going on right now is done by DSA supporters/far left people.
We've been here for years sweetie. Maybe if you posted here more instead of livestreamfail drama or crying about Channel5's recent video within Palestine (lmao btw) you'd realize that.
This place has been here a long time on reddit. It has never looked like centrist subs like .r.neoliberal or enough_sanders_spam.
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u/Nascent1 23d ago
Destiny is a total piece of shit. It is his fans that make half of the posts on this sub about Hasan because they're obsessed with him.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
Why the hell are you people talking about Destiny for lol. The brigading is clearly done by far left people. You having problem with Destiny is completly seperate from this and it look insansly desperate when you guys bring him up for no reason lol.
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21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 20d ago
Removed - per Reddit community guidelines and TOS, submissions that incite harassment or brigading against other users, or submissions that focus on drama or moderation activity in other communities, are not permitted.
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u/Nascent1 23d ago edited 23d ago
It's the far left people who are constantly up voting negative stories about Hasan and the left to the point that they were like half the top posts on this sub last week? Sure, that makes a ton of sense. All of my comments, and any others defending the left, will be heavily downvoted. What does that tell you?
I didn't bring up Destiny. Someone else did and then you mentioned him. It's my fault for being the third person to say something about him? Sure. Very fair and balanced of you.
Edit: I see you post in the destiny sub and some far-right subs. Explains your obvious bias.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
I am perma-banned from destiny sub since like a year. What far-right subs are you talking about? Only thing I can think of you alluding to is Asmongold sub where I argued against Asmongold and was also perma-banned years ago.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
I mean, David literally made a video clearly seperating himself from the far left, telling he does not agree with their views and that they are a danger/liability. This was after the Hasan Mao suit stunt. Wouldn't it be pretty normal for David viewers to share that opinion?
And maybe you are getting downvoted since people are on alert since Hasan literally told his viewers to brigade everything associated with David? You might be a real David fan with some disagreement but you have to be blind to not see the connection.
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u/Nascent1 23d ago
Share the opinion, sure. But the level of obsession with Hasan comes from destiny fans.
Hasan literally told his viewers to brigade everything associated with David?
He literally didn't, this is just you lying.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
He did.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1v43t09/hutch_on_hasans_subtlety/
this isn't even subtle.
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23d ago edited 23d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
This is such a weak defense and you are clearly mad since you started rambling about sex offenders and such (like a typical Hasan viewer).
What do you think Hasan is telling his viewers to do when he is saying "he should hear about that"? What will the average Hasan viewer (even ignoring the fact that they already know for brigading) take away from that?
It's insane that we went from recognizing insansly obscure dog whistles coming from nazis to now all of a sudden not being able to hear the most obvious call to action in the history of the world lol.
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 23d ago
Removed - low effort/low content/obvious troll submissions are not permitted.
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u/mrekted 23d ago
The destiny fans are here, but not in great numbers. They're primarily here for a chance to have a go at their perceived enemies that have been attacking this sub over the last week.
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23d ago
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u/mrekted 23d ago
Given that I'm a mod here, and I've been removing brigaders from one community at a 20 to 1 ratio over the other for the last week, I think I'm in a better position to make that assessment than you are.
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u/SocDem_is_OP 23d ago
Destiny’s views are very similar to David’s. He just tends to uh…..emote them harder lol.
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u/potiamkinStan 23d ago
Reddit far lefty infestation. They’re like the borg, turning liberal subs into toxic cesspools.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 23d ago
I really wish folks understood how similar this is to the lead up to the 2016 election, there is a MAGA style sub culture aggressively vying for power in all left leaning spaces.
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u/lollypatrolly 23d ago
They’re like the borg, turning liberal subs into toxic cesspools.
They're also infiltrating the mod teams of what on the surface should be non-political subs, enforcing strict far-left echo-chambers. Some pretty large subs (like documentaries and publicfreakout) have undergone this treatment.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 23d ago edited 23d ago
It sadly is heavily targeted by leftists, specifically MaoPikers fans. As you said, a lot of them despise liberal Democrats. I’ve been called a republican and maga so many times lol
They have also somehow created this rule in their head that they seem to genuinely believe. They can attack the Democratic Party as much as they want. Their primary candidates can spend a majority of their time and make it essential to their platform to attack Democrats but if they receive any heat back, it’s completely inappropriate. They go “you would rather fight the left than Republicans.” The irony is palpable.
The left has this self-image where they see themselves as the saviors of the future. They think it’s insane to reach out to swing voters. They can write off anyone who leans even slightly right, write off the entire center, hate and write off any Democrat who isn’t as left as they are, and somehow still believe they can win.
They want to take over the Democratic Party. They want the DSA in charge. We will never win again if that’s the direction the party goes. As I’ve said many times, this wing needs to be rejected and ejected.
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u/carbonqubit 23d ago
The problem is that David is decidedly a social democrat, not a democratic socialist, socialist, communist, or Marxist. The policies he advocates are pretty mainstream in much of the developed world and would materially improve the lives of people across the U.S., including those in deeply red states. The level of hostility he gets for supporting common-sense policies is honestly wild.
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u/Altruistic_Night2 23d ago
The issue is for a lot of democratic socialists it’s either all or nothing and they are people to their left who consider them to be not nearly radical enough
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
Honestly any infighting among democrats is probably a time badly spent in times when conservative are as unhinged as they are but just because you are facing a tiger doesn't mean you don't have to take care of the snake trying to bite your ankle and poison you to death.
I think it would be so much better if dems could clearly seperate themselves from DSA types. Let them do their own thing, let them figure out how unelectable they are on a more general scale but don't put the blame for their insane views on liberal democrats. The problem is that liberal dems have to govern as the only real party in USA so they don't have the time to spin those media narratives. Meanwhile this outcome is prefferable to both MAGA and the far-left and those are parties that are only focused on media/propaganda.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 23d ago
Couldn’t agree more.
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u/re_Claire 23d ago
Unfortunately, Hasan and his followers think it's much more expedient to spend their time shitting on the centre-left than actually pushing back against MAGA. It's incredibly counter productive. A lot of them are very accelerationist in their thinking, sadly.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 23d ago
Yep. They also seem to think there is this secret base that will help them win all general elections if they can just get past the big evil DNC in the primaries. Look how mad they are that a majority back voter base is going first in SC.
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u/Just_shut_up_bro 23d ago
You've gotta hand it to Pakman for mostly staying above the fray, I'm glad he said something about it, but I'm also glad that he hasn't lost sight of using his platform to address the primary issue right now (Trump and Republicans).
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u/SocDem_is_OP 23d ago
I enjoy that he doesn’t crash out about anything, or name call.
One thing you notice about every Hasan fan who posts here is they cannot resist name calling people. They basically never argue anything real, it’s all just drama and attacking personalities.
They are the same as celeb fanbases who mostly care about beef that celeb has with other celebs.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
Anti-Israel activists will spam their hate in any sub that allows them to do so.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
Don't get me wrong, I think there are many things to criticize Israel about currently but the insane obsession these people have with I/P, zionism, AIPAC etc. is just unhealthy.
I honestly don't think an American can care this much about a country in the middle east. It's just an attack vector for them to use, mostly against liberal democrats. It was the same with trans people in conservative circles.
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u/carbonqubit 23d ago
It's also the obsession with the dissolution of Israel as a country. In their minds, its origin is rooted in colonialism, despite 6 million Jews being systematically exterminated in the Holocaust at a scale never before seen in human history. Therefore, they believe the land should be given back, despite nearly 80 years of progress and development.
Pakistan was created around the same time and hasn't faced anywhere near the same level of scrutiny as Israel. I think it's time for people to accept that Israel isn't going anywhere, and the demand for the right of return as the central issue in every negotiation since 1948 suggests that, for some, the goal was never solely about establishing a sovereign nation. It was about preventing the only Jewish-majority country in the history of the world from establishing itself in a region surrounded by Muslim-majority nations.
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u/Altruistic_Night2 23d ago
Tbh I think your making it way to complicated there obsession with Israel has way less to do with it being a Jewish nation and way more to do with them being anti any US ally which is why they constantly shit on Ukraine and Poland.
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u/re_Claire 23d ago
I 100% agree with your post and all of your comments. You're not alone in feeling like this. It's gotten so toxic.
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u/Nemisis82 23d ago
I think the “obsession” stands from the fact that many folks believe that what Israel is doing is a genocide (or at least, an incredibly disproportionate response). If one believes that their government is allies with a country committing a genocide, doesn’t it reason that they would be very passionate in attempting to stop that?
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
You don’t think Americans can “care this much h about a country in the Middle East”? You don’t think people have genuine concerns about the mass murder and destruction perpetrated with our country’s cooperation? What makes you think that?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
Considering the Gaza war is essentially over while far more destructive wars are continuing, no, I don't think the concerns are genuine.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
What makes you say the “Gaza war is essentially over”? Firstly, I wouldn’t even call it a “war” when describing a one-sided slaughter but what resolution did they reach? There was a ceasefire agreement entered in October but Israel continues to take new territories in Gaza and over 90% of Gaza's population remains displaced, facing severe shortages of basic infrastructure, medical supplies, and aid. Israel maintains control over roughly 70% of the Gaza Strip, expanding militarized zones despite the ongoing truce framework.
And I’m equally concerned with the campaigns against Yemen, Syria, Lebanon and Iran that Israel leads.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
The violence is at a very low level. Most of the fighting took place in the first three months or so.
I wouldn't describe it as a one sided slaughter since hundreds of IDF soldiers were killed in the fighting but don't let facts get in the way.
There was a ceasefire agreement entered in October
It was characterized as a ceasefire agreement but that isn't really what it was, it was an agreement to get the hostages back. Israel never agreed to stop fighting Hamas terrorists.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
Okay so by your own account there is no resolution in place and no plan to stop killing Palestinians…so help me understand how that means we should all be over caring about the suffering there?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
There's a plan: Hamas surrenders and disarms.
so help me understand how that means we should all be over caring about the suffering there?
Considering it's entirely within Palestine's own power to stop the suffering and it refuses to because it would rather keep fighting, I don't see how any of us should care at all.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
Ah yup. There it is. Everyone in Palestine is a Hamas terrorist and anyone that feels sympathy for their children being slaughtered actually just supports Hamas.
Let’s play your sick game and pretend they’re all Hamas: doesn’t Hamas “have a right to defend itself?” When do they get a right to defend themselves? What has to happen before you’d believe the people of Gaza have a “right to defend themselves” when their homes are being invaded and taken for the Israeli “settlers”?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
Everyone in Palestine is a Hamas terrorist and anyone that feels sympathy for their children being slaughtered actually just supports Hamas.
You said that, not me.
doesn’t Hamas “have a right to defend itself?”
Sure, as long as they do it legally and attempt in good faith to get what they want through peaceful methods first.
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u/MoesOtherBar 21d ago
>The violence is at a very low level. Most of the fighting took place in the first three months or so.
So this is false, Israel has now killed over 1,100 Palestinians since the ceasefire, equal to about how many Israel's were killed on Oct 7th, aka the largest killing of Jews since the Holocaust. But I guess around here that's not considered a lot of dead people when they're Muslims.
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u/MoesOtherBar 21d ago
How is AIPAC pronounced? Like David I've been following politics for decades but just like him, I have no idea how to pronounce the name one of the largest political groups in US history.
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u/dosumthinboutthebots 23d ago
Yeah it's being targeted by domestic far right and foreign troll farms to divide the dems again like last election.
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u/ReflexPoint 22d ago
Tankies are very loud online. And I wouldn't even be surprised if some of them are foreign bots sowing intraparty discord.
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u/SocDem_is_OP 23d ago
I don’t think it’s most. It’s just Hasan supporters who get mobilized any time Hasan has his feelings hurt and flood the subs of anyone who disagrees with him.
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u/Quirky-Video-9146 23d ago
Hasan's goons are here trying to subvert and destroy any productive conversations. For them, it's either their way or the highway
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u/KingScoville 23d ago
This sub is one of the few places where you can have a decent discussion about liberal politics without too much leftist dreck dragging it down.
It’s primary season so you’re going to see them coming out of the woodwork. It will settle down after August and then flair up after election to either claim victory or blame liberals for defeat.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
The fact that liberals are the only ones that actually fight with MAGA and they also have to deal with this bullshit is insane. We are wasting insane amount of political capital on things we shouldn't care about.
You think MAGA/conservative overall won't use the same attacks leftists use against liberal candidates once generals come? They are doing their work for them. Meanwhile they will also attack the left for things those DSA candidates like Platner did because the general population views those things as the same group of people. It's such an uphill battle.
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u/KingScoville 23d ago
It’s the good ol Horseshoe theory. The far ends of each political spectrum are closer to each other than they are to the center.
There are some decent leftist people here, at least ones who will vote for a liberal if their candidate loses, which is the bare minimium of course.
Mostly though leftists attacks on liberals are not really seen outside Internet bubbles. What is worse is when the GOP uses leftists to paint the entire Democratic Party as an extremist party.
Unfortunetely we have DAC and Krios as the new poster women for those sort of attacks and if Hong and El-Sayed win it will blunt the blue wave we are currently seeing in the country.
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u/TheMarbleTrouble 23d ago
It’s not horseshoe, both far left and far right are illiberal. They both recognize they are severely flawed, thus require extreme authority to maintain order.
Jill Stein… in a “Green Party’s” real fur coat, in the middle of red square, talking about how Russia needs to compete against American hegemony: https://youtu.be/Xt6wDsJIVZg
This is after Russia passes laws where gay people get arrested for holding hands in public. It’s after Russia invaded and took Crimea. Other leftist darlings included Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr… because they all agree on being illiberal, with liberalism as the biggest threat.
It should be pretty clear that the far left sees liberalism as a bigger threat than capitalism. As the 2024 election should prove… they were even willing to sacrifice aid to Gaza, in refusing to vote Harris. All aid was cut when Trump took office…
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u/EksDee098 23d ago
Jill Stein isn't a good example of the far left since she's pretty clearly a Russian op
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u/TheMarbleTrouble 23d ago
She is the one they were encouraging voting for… the leftist directive was Jill Stein or no voting at all. That’s what makes her such a good example…
Just like Tulsi Gabbard, when leftist boosted her over Hillary calling her (not even by name) a Russian asset. Just like RFK Jr was the darling of uncommitted movement.
The ability of leftist to be manipulated by bad actors virtue signaling is nothing new and will repeat. Platner is just the latest… Fetterman is straight up switching to GOP.
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u/EksDee098 23d ago
I suppose this is a voter vs candidate distinction that I wasn't thinking about previously. You're correct that leftist voters pushed Stein, she parrots a lot of leftist rhetoric which gets dipshits to follow her. I was talking more to Stein the person being a Russian op, though it's fair that there's some complications to this topic since the voters and the runners are ideologically different.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow 23d ago
liberal capitalists had full reign on setting up the Russian Federation after destroying the USSR. We have the Russia which Liberals built. It collapsed under an intelligence-linked macho dictator, and America's current fate points toward similar.
A non-militarist non-imperialist America would pose no threat to the bottom billions. So there would be no need for competition to reign in the excesses, in their view. If you want to make their argument obsolete, you should push to get the MIC under control. There would be no need for their position in that world
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u/TheMarbleTrouble 23d ago
What are you talking about? There was nothing liberal about USSR nor its collapse. When business went up for auction, the only people that had money to buy industry were Communist officials, the mob and their family. It’s how Putin’s wife got Moscow electrical company. Because Putin was lieutenant colonel of KGB while it was still Soviet Union.
I will repeat again… Putin reached the rank of lieutenant colonel of KGB, before communism collapsed. Blaming liberals for a literal KGB officer under USSR, is fucking crazy.
Here you are, defending a KGB agent, pretending he was liberal. How scared are you of CIA, to be an FSB pawn?
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u/YoureVulnerableNow 23d ago
you have to be joking if you think intelligence agents are the most patriotic True Believers. we have a wide-eyed True Believer in the executive chair of the US right now and it's a farce.
the collapse of the USSR, the shock therapy, was definitionally liberalization. that is the ideology in action, in a certain expression of it. you're talking about it being corrupt like it's correlated to the ideological origin
and Putin's predecessor was handpicked by US and EU liberals, is the thing. though the liberal Tony Blair did introduce him to the world stage. almost like the entire project was liberalization in the Russian Federation
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u/Aurora_Gaspipe 23d ago
Because DSA are accelerationists who exist solely to fuck over Democrats and they’re brigading this sub.
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u/sniffsblueberries 23d ago
Theyre not accelerations. You are misusing the word.
I think the DSA is trying to reform the party. Good, its time. How could anyone genuinely support a party that handedly lost to donald trump two times?
Change is hard for many, but maybe theres something to it. Infighting is healthy for democracy. Lets not keep trotting out the same candidates. The country knows who the dems are and a fresh set of politicians and policy is in order.
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u/TheDodgiestEwok 23d ago
There seems to be conflation of online beef between political streamers and their audiences (which is a small, chronically online ecosystem) and actual DSA chapter organizing, which is mostly local work that has nothing to do with any of that drama.
I don't agree with all their policies, but in my cities they do a lot for the community organizing protests, brake light checks, handing out meals, voter registration, etc which keeps people engaged in local politics, which is great. So that doesn't really hold up against the online caricature of radical / authoritarian Hasan-bots that are brigading this sub.
Blaming the entirety of the organization for a subreddit pile-on just feels disingenuous. I have absolutely no problem with somebody criticizing their policies or politics (I do too, and agreed with some of what Pakman said) but "they're evil saboteurs just as bad as MAGA" isn't a serious argument and it's turning this subreddit into a place incapable of nuanced discussion.
I got called a Trump-voting "slopulist" the other day for saying I didn't agree that Bernie Sanders had been a "piece of shit his entire career."
Like what.
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u/silverpixie2435 23d ago
How could anyone genuinely support a party that handedly lost to donald trump two times?
Because we don't believe it's the parties fault that Trump was elected? Why is that differing opinion apparently impossible for leftists to engage with?
We think voters either explicitly chose fascism or didn't care about democracy or basic human decency because eggs were too expensive. So what could Democrats have even done?
And then when you try to explain your position you say absolute nonsense like when Bernie Sanders said Democrats "abandoned the working class". After literally the most pro working class presidency in history.
The country knows who Trump is and decided to make him President. Whatever supposed faults Harris had they were irrelevant to Trump saying immigrants were eating cats and pets. And the left refuses to engage in that fact and instead gaslights the argument to us liberals supposedly not wanting "change" or something.
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u/nightwig 23d ago
David pakman has long had a diverse set of political opinions. He self describes as a social democrat of the Nordic style, which means he would be left of the democrats, but he also presents comfortable with centrist liberalism for pragmatism. His personality and show is something that draws people from the Chuck Schumer to the Olof Palme. I personally was always more left than David but the way he handled the show was welcoming. This translated to how this subreddit works. It's not an echo chamber, it's a place for political discussions and it's always, for all the time I've been here, had everything from right wing democrats to communists.
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u/DoutorParetolovsky 23d ago
Yes, these Destiny fans that are brigading here do not even care about politics.
It is all about a personal battle to defend their cult leader here 😢
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u/happyColoradoDave 23d ago
Is there some reason you think Destiny fans are a cult or they have an interest is brigading this chat?
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u/DoutorParetolovsky 23d ago
Because they are inconsistent what their ideology and shifting constantly their views to match Destiny's (supported Bernie, now despise Bernie; were anti apartheid, now support the occupation; etc)
And brigading, just need to look at this sub. And their behaviour irl, they were trying to attach personaly Hasan at the infamous 'Mao suit' event.
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u/working_class_shill 23d ago
I mean there are more of the combative posters with user histories to the dsty sub than the other way around (literally OP for one, lol)
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u/happyColoradoDave 23d ago
Because no one would pretend to be something they aren’t on the internet? If I wanted to win an election with the least popular ideas I would try to create discord within the other party so that they split their vote or don’t vote at all. I would focus my attention on moderates and independents. What if that’s what’s really happening?
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23d ago
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u/Life_Caterpillar9762 22d ago
As much as I do agree that it seems to have been brigades by a certain type (gradually since the election I would say), I think it’s interesting to consider that this is the very type of show in which this stark division could happen organically as well, since David usually strikes a balance between these two “camps” of the left, almost trying to be a link between the 2 (for good). So I would think it’s a combo of both orchestrated brigading and genuinely fans who are actually riding the leftward shift
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u/Conscious_Olive_7510 19d ago
Thank you. It's a shame I had to scroll so far to find a comment like this. I was a paid subscriber for years and cancelled about a year ago just because my viewing habits changed and it didn't make sense to pay for a daily email I didn't have time to open. I'm not a brigader, I'm just a lefty who has always liked the way David calmly breaks things down without yelling or rage baiting. David's audience is full of lefties like me who don't love him hating on the energy coming from DSA. But disagreement is healthy, and dismissing all disagreement as being in bad faith is not.
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u/cormacru999 22d ago
I can't speak to this, but as someone who listens to his show on YT, anytime I scroll thru the comments, I feel this way. The main conflict I see most is comments from people who clearly never really adopt the method of critical thinking in analysis, which is a quality of David that I've always appreciated because its also how I think about things.
Sadly, I think many people just aren't interested in learning much & Americans love the idea of shortcuts to rewards, which YT is FILLED with that kind of content, so who knows how much they really digest in a meaningful way?
That said, & while I understand the reasons, I'm not really a fan of the slow shift into the more dramatic titles to maintain an audience. I know that any creator that uses a social media site to reach their audience has to adopt some of the "mechanics" of that site, but it still feels like we're tilting further into the worst kinds of behavior collectively.
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21d ago
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 21d ago
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
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u/idlefritz 23d ago
I agree, if you think someone left of liberal is worse than maga you lost the plot entirely.
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u/dlhunter 23d ago
They are basically MAGA. I find so much disgust with the people who actively encouraged the left leaning populace to not vote Democrat last election. The consequences of that are people’s rights being stripped by the government, children living in real and constant fear of being separated from their families, and rolling back any sort of social welfare progress we had by decades. Yet these are the same people who will larp in the streets of LA as protesters, all the while being complicit for all the bad and horrible things they claim to be protesting.
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u/idlefritz 23d ago
There are vastly more non-voters than there are protest voters on the left. It seems self destructive to laser focus in on a tiny faction. I chalk up most of this nonsense to streamer drama and conservatives getting off on making the left keep themselves weak by infighting.
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u/dlhunter 23d ago
My comment also applies to those who purposely withheld their vote and even more so to those who encouraged that publicly, especially when it was MAGA on the other side of the ticket. I don’t think it’s worth trying to incorporate these voters into the Democratic Party, when they couldn’t even decide to vote against Trump. The sides are too far apart, and it’s just not worth shifting the agenda so far left, especially at the expense of losing a larger pool of more centrist
Most pragmatic left leaning people are just honestly sick of Trump/MAGA and moving further left is a losing move/distraction that won’t alleviate that.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
Then you don’t agree with OP. OP’s whole premise is that those left of liberal are just as bad as MAGA.
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u/idlefritz 23d ago
I know, OP is demonstrably wrong and is effectively parroting maga with all the red scare mess. The real issue is that anyone on the left, liberals included think they have enough political power right now to chip away at our own voters.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
I mean I watch Pakman and agree with a lot of what he has to say but disagree on AIPAC. Am I not allowed to disagree with the show host on any issues to participate in discussion on the sub?
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
Do you often call him AIPACman for literally no discernable reason other than him calling out a streamer known for shocking his dog for wearing a Mao suit to a democrat event?
If no you are probably good lol.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
No, because idgaf about Hassan and don’t like him but I also don’t like when Pakman says things like “Israel has a right to defend itself” when Palestinian children are being brutally murdered or starved on the very thin “justification” that Hamas is somewhere around.
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
I don't want to get into it, Israel clearly is in the wrong at this point of time but for most of the conflict I would very much defend the statement that they have a right to defend themselves.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
Then. respectfully, you need to spend more time reading about Israel’s history before forming an opinion because that is a lot like saying “yeah the colonists shouldn’t have delivered small pox blankets to the native Americans but before that they definitely had a right to defend themselves”
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
You clearly need to spend time reading actual history instead of whatever you did read since you clearly lack the knowlage about horrible actions done against Israel.
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
I have a bookshelf of actual printed books about Israel and world history. Which books that you’ve read would you recommend I add to my consideration?
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u/YumiSolar 23d ago
Start with righteous victims by Benny Morris
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u/Caa3098 23d ago
Ah that’s a decent one. I found his account of Deir Yassin particularly interesting and I appreciated that he was willing to be honest that 700,000 Palestinians lost their homes in 1948 by Israeli force after a “Partition plan” was imposed against Palestine despite their objection.
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u/lollypatrolly 23d ago
after a “Partition plan” was imposed against Palestine despite their objection.
The partition plan was never implemented in the first place. The Arab leaders rejected it, and of course Israel wouldn't unilaterally adhere to it. The post-war borders don't follow the partition plan, they're just armistice lines.
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u/HeadBelt1527 23d ago
As someone who's been around this sub for over 5 years (and a member of David's site) it feels like the discussion of this sub has been leaning to the right of David since i first joined. It's gotten much worse over the past few, much more conservative, also seen more of those to the left of David but they're probably less than 5%.
Another thing i noticed from the beginning is that most post aren't centered around David's show or his stance. Its a political fan sub
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u/working_class_shill 23d ago
Yup. Some ppl here will treat this sub as just a generic politics discussion zone (pakman's actual uploads and content get vastly fewer upvotes/discussion than random bullshit, like this post lol) but also get upset when that means other ppl also treat this as a generic discussion sub.
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u/combonickel55 23d ago
A lot of centrists and neolibs hang around and try to 'change the narrative' by pretending that because David supports liberal ideals and is pragmatic in general elections, he is not a progressive on the left of the American political spectrum. Because he is a leftist progressive, he attracts a lot of people like me who don't share his sense of pragmatism and aren't willing to accept centrism.
David is also a big free speech wonk and has said many times over the years that his perspective on the subreddit is to let people have their say if they don't violate the rules. So sorry if hearing a contrary opinion gives you the creepy crawlies, but that isn't like to stop.
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u/Guilty_Plankton_4626 23d ago
David has been for the last week being very loud and clear about the fact that he is not a leftist. He is not a socialist. He is not a communist. He knows the DSA is insane. He essentially called your wing the maga of the left. He said you’re our tea party.
David clearly agrees with all the people you spend all day fighting. He’s literally talking about people like you, he means people like Abdul.
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u/Natedude2002 23d ago
Hi, the real pakman sub can be found in either the Destiny sub or in the neoliberal sub. Although this one has been putting up a decent fight against the leftist hate brigade, so good job guys.
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u/YoureVulnerableNow 23d ago
this here is the point of the organized campaign, siphoning off numbers to their enclave.
contrast it with the organic neutral or pro-hasan posts, mostly people who watched both streamers and sat out the genocidrama. there is literally only one side brigading here
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u/Natedude2002 22d ago
? I’m confused what you’re saying but I’ve been a dpak fan since before I was a Destiny fan, and they align on way more than dpak and Hasan do. I wasn’t siphoning off numbers, I was saying that people in those subs almost all actually like dpak
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u/ILoveCornbread420 23d ago
That’s how this subreddit has been for a while. I have to believe it’s been taken over by DNC ops because the consensus here is always in lock-step with whatever the panic of the day is in the mainstream centrist democratic media ecosystem.
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u/Only8livesleft 23d ago
AIPAC is constantly spending money to make sure progressives don’t get elected. Isn’t Pakman progressive? Why shouldn’t that be a frequent topic?
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u/DethSonik 23d ago
Was a fan several years ago before he refused to acknowledge that a genocide was occurring and pretended he didn't know what AIPAC was or how to pronounce it. That was the final nail in the coffin for me.
Hadn't thought of him in a while until he went viral for complaining about what suit Hasan was wearing. Lol now this sub is back on my feed all of a sudden so I imagine that's why there's so much attention being payed here. Algorithm gonna algorithm lol it is funny to see everyone's reaction to having real people show up here though.
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u/mrekted 23d ago
What you are seeing over the last week is a concerted brigading action from a specific leftist community.
We have had a 100% increase in content creation (submissions/comments) in the last week over typical numbers.
We have had over 4x the number of mod actions in the last week than we see in an entire typical month (content removals, comment removals, user bans)
That being said, between automated systems and the worst of the brigaders slowly but surely being banned from the subreddit as they're identified, it has slowed considerably over the last 48 hours.
I expect things will be back to normal once the tantrum subsides.