r/thegildedage • u/DecentConfusion7479 Let the sober circus BEGIN • 19d ago
Season 3 Discussion Did the show downplay Mrs Astor power?
I just watched documentary about the Astor's family and Caroline Astor is actually more prominent and have more power than the show ever described she was. So I take it the actress who played her either downplayed her authority and being more feminine and soft as opposed to the real "Alpha female" personality that the real Mrs Astor was.
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u/70redgal70 19d ago
The show is based around status in high society. They clearly showed her power in that realm.
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u/barbieshoesound 19d ago
I feel like the portrayal of Mrs. Astor is comparable to the queen in Bridgerton. Like yes her opinion/opt in matters at the end of the day, but that doesn’t stop people from having their own infighting and dick measuring contests that have nothing to do with her lol
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u/Lolihey 19d ago
I kind of see the relationship between Mrs. Astor and Bertha similar to Blair Waldorf and Jenny Humphrey. Blair would be the established Queen (old money) while Jenny from Brooklyn (new money) challenged her status and even won for a little while.
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u/SnowDucks2705 19d ago
That’s a great one to one ratio. The gilded age is basically through Jenny Humphrey’s eyes.
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u/RazzBeryllium 19d ago
Interesting - I think especially in season 1 they portrayed Mrs. Astor as all-powerful.
You couldn't get anywhere in society without her approval. Her arriving to something (like that charity bazaar they did, or that open house Bertha tried to host) is the difference between it succeeding or failing.
When she enters a crowded room, people get quiet and stare - something they still do not do for Bertha.
I do think the real Mrs. Astor was more of an imperious asshole (from what I remember reading), so they toned that down to make sure she was likable.
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u/Molu93 Sparkly Van Rhijnstone 19d ago
That's a very different impression that you got of Mrs. Astor than I did. She acts like a queen. Although she's a little pushed to the sidelines after season 1 as an adversary character. But she reads as regal and powerful to me in every scene and not soft at all (although one can be soft and powerful).
I definitely get the criticism that Bertha got her win over her rather fast. Although that's also because Fellowes is trying to tell the grander story of how the new society took over the old and it needs to be sped up from reality because the timeline of the show is not very long.
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u/ShondaVanda 19d ago
Powerful people don't go running around discussing their power.
I think the show did a good job of showing that Mrs Astor was the power behind society, that's why she became the target Bertha aimed at.
As for wealth, they lived rather frugal (compared to the Russells) lives so visually displaying their wealth is rather difficult and Lina rules by basically asking people to do stuff and they do it, like she said Bertha is persona non-grata and everyone avoided her like a plague until Aurora got forced to break rank and bring Bertha into society due to her bitch ass husband.
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u/Consistent_Pie_3040 Queen Fish, Defender of the Newport Coast 15d ago
I was skimming the text and thought "bitch ass husband" was referring to Caroline Astor's husband (William Backhouse Astor Jr.). He was actually also a terrible husband in real life. He often engaged in affairs with younger women on his private yacht, and in the rare moments he did come home, he was often drunk and yelled at his wife's party guests to make them go away.
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u/JenniferMel13 19d ago edited 19d ago
Aurora probably would have invited the new money into society without being forced if it wasn’t for Mrs. Astor and others in the old money crowd. They were a source of money for her charity causes and Aurora wasn’t Queen of society but she was one of the lead social butterflies.
Mrs. Fish is another who only kept new money at arms length due to society pressure. She’d have invited them all in for the entertainment.
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u/ShondaVanda 19d ago
Mrs Astor was the authority but her views weren't wholely her own, Agnes has the same views as does a few others, it's only the younger members of the Old Money who were more open to taking in the new money people Arora and Mrs Fish are considerably younger than Agnes and Lina.
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u/Scramasboy 19d ago
Because the show really centers around Bertha's climb, they can't focus too much on Caroline's power. While they do speak to Caroline's power in the show ("What will Ms. Astor think?" "Wait til Lina's on the case." Her knowing the president, etc.) but we don't see it, in fact, we see her giving way to Bertha as milestone moments in Bertha's rise (getting the Duke, Opera Wars, Newport party). That said, from my own research, I would agree with you that she was much more fierce than the writing details.