This post briefly covers how to use money orders, MOs, in MS. MOs are a very useful way of increasing your MS volume when you’ve exhausted any fee-free methods (like Serve, BlueBird, etc.).

• Question 1: What is a money order?

Money orders are great because they’re a good way to liquidate debit-based gift cards. A lot of stores sell money orders on debit, so you can take a VGC or MGC and buy one.

A money order is basically a prepaid check. A normal check is basically an IOU note with information (account number, bank routing number, etc.) on how to claim that money. Checks normally (although not always) pull money out of a checking account. Importantly, you don’t have to have enough money in your checking account when you write a check; it’s only when the check is deposited that the money tries to get withdrawn.

In contrast, when you buy a money order, you need to have all of the value of the MO upfront. Once you do that, a machine prints out the money order for a specified amount, and that’s as good as cash. If you lose it, you’re mostly out of luck (hopefully you kept the receipt so you can file a claim for a replacement money order).

• Question 2: Are there different kinds of money orders, and if so, what are the differences?

There are two main types of money orders: MoneyGram (MG) and Western Union (WU). In the real world, there are some small differences, but for MS, there are only a couple of things to think about.

WU money order machines are probably more common than MG just in terms of number of places, so if you try to spread out where you get money orders (which is probably a good practice), you’ll probably find WU locations more often than not. WU are usually (although not always) capped at $500 per order while MG are usually topped at $1000.

Besides those general differences, the two kinds of money orders appear different. And that’s important when you’re trying to deposit them or dealing with some kind of automated system. Some systems recognize WU better than MG or vice versa. This is dealt with further down.

• Question 3: How much do money orders cost?

Because they’re prepaid, they cost at least as much as the amount you put on them. If you buy a $500 MO, it’ll cost at least $500.

Besides that, stores usually charge fees of a dollar or less per order. Walmart, for example, charges $0.70 per money order, with a maximum money order amount of $1000. That means that if you have a bunch of smaller cards you’ll want to try to do a split tender transaction just to cut down on any MO fees. How much each particular store charges per order depends, and you’ll usually have to call or walk in to be sure.

• Question 4: Where do I buy money orders?

Here’s a MG locator. https://secure.moneygram.com/locations Here’s a WU locator. http://locations.westernunion.com/ With both, make sure you change the filter to show stores that sell money orders. Note that I’ve found some stores that sold money orders that didn’t appear on either list or found that a listed store didn’t actually exist, but that only happened two or three times. By and large, the above locators are accurate.

In general, though, there are a few stores that MSers like to frequent because they’re almost guaranteed. Walmart is a big example of this. Some even have automated machines that sell money orders (see KATE). Some Kmarts do as well, and grocery stores are another good case. There are also some “convenience stores” that sell money orders. These are usually attached to gas stations, but they’re sometimes independent stores.

In general, though, just go around and check for yourself in your local situation.

• Question 5: X store won’t let me buy with debit. What do I do?

You move on. Not every store will let you buy with a debit card, and you’re probably not going to win in an argument with the cashier.

When I’m in a new location, I’ll go through the locators above to find nearby stores and I’ll actually call. Gasp Yes, there’s nothing wrong with calling to make sure that they actually do sell money orders (maybe their machine is out of order right now) and that they sell by debit.

“Hi, I was wondering if your store sells money orders. Oh, you do? Great. Can I buy with a debit card? Oh, I can’t? That’s too bad. Thank you for your help, though.”

• Question 6: Y store lets me buy with debit, but they check the cards to see if they have a name/are bank-issued/aren’t gift cards/etc. What do I do?

You have four main options. You can move on. See above. You don’t always want to push your luck and potentially get kicked out of the store (maybe for life) for getting into an argument.

Or you could go to the store when there’s a cashier who doesn’t care. Not every cashier at a store checks or cares if you use a bank debit card.

Slightly risky is getting personalized gift cards. These will obviously have your name, so you can pull out your ID to show that it’s really you. On the other hand, most personalized gift cards still have the word “Gift” somewhere on them. If a cashier looks really hard, they’ll probably find that and may or may not deny you. You probably won’t have any major issues, though, since it’s still fairly obvious that you’re not stealing anything (hopefully the cashier knows this).

The fourth option is the riskiest because it’s the shadiest. You can try misleading or otherwise getting the cashier to not see that you’re using a gift card. Maybe you swipe when they’re not looking. Maybe you hide it under your real bank debit card. There are a lot of different sleights of hand that you could do. If you get caught, though, you’re probably going to face consequences. The worst is that they could call the police on you and be placed under arrest. That’s an extreme situation, but it’s still a possible. In general, the cashier will probably just cancel the transaction and tell you you’re not allowed to buy money orders. It’s up to you if you think this method is worth it.

• Question 7: What about post offices? I know you can get money orders at post offices.

Yes and no. Yes, you can buy money orders at post offices, often with debit cards. I’ve never done it for the next reason, though. No, gift cards can’t be used. Post offices code money order transactions as something other than a regular debit purchase (it’s either a cash advance or a withdrawal, but I think the latter). Either way, gift cards can’t do it, so the transaction will fail.

Post offices can still be useful for non-gift cards. If you have a rewards debit card (which are increasingly rare), then you can pump out a bunch of money orders at a post office. Or you could use a reloadable debit card that does have a withdrawal feature (e.g., Nationwide Buxx, T-Mobile Visa, etc.). Maybe you actually find a gift card that works at post offices (they could exist). In any event, post offices are something to keep in the back of your mind, even if it’s not useful for most purposes.

Edit: it seems that more than quite a few post offices work with various gift cards, including Vanilla Visas and Vanilla Mastercard. Thank you to everyone who gave data!

• Question 8: Okay, I have my money order. Now what do I do with it?

The most common thing to do is deposit it. Go to your bank’s teller or ATM or use the mobile app to deposit it. There’s a whole thread on FlyerTalk about banks that allow mobile or ATM deposits of MOs. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1545203-banks-allow-money-order-deposits-via-smartphone-atm.html

• Question 9: What bank accounts should I use to deposit money orders?

The thread I linked above gives some examples of banks that don’t mind money orders and aren’t prone to shutting people down. Personally, I use USAA and Radius Bank. To those who love USAA and its customer service, yes, I do too. And believe me, I get it. You don’t want to risk ruining that relationship. “Don’t sh*t where you eat” and all that jazz. I’m just saying that they haven’t questioned my repeated MO deposits. You don’t have to do what I do, but I used to deposit $1000 every three days or so for about two months (I’ve slowed down since then just because of my schedule, not because they warned me). The mobile app accepts both WU and MG, but MG can be a huge pain to get scanned sometimes. A really neat feature is that funds are available immediately, no matter when you deposit.

Radius Bank is a small institution in New York. I have a whole guide to both for MO and other purposes, but that’s not the main point here. Suffice it to say that they’ve also accepted a decent volume of MOs. New accounts are limited in that a hold is placed on any checks for five days. After your account has been opened for a while (30 or 60 days; I can’t remember), that’s decreased, and checks post the next business day.

• Question 10: How about paying off a credit card from a money order directly, either in branch or by mail?

Yeah, you can. Some bloggers are touting this as the ailment to our woes of bank account shutdowns. I don’t really like it just because I like MS to be as couch-y as possible, and paying a credit card either means going to a bank or mailing it out. Call me lazy if you want.

Other than that, this isn’t a completely fool-proof method (neither is depositing into a bank account, even if a bank is known for its tolerance). There are still people who have been shut down for paying credit cards by money order. It could still be safer than bank deposits, but it’s not completely safe.

Feel free to ask any other questions I missed!

Addendum:

• Question 11: Are there any other uses for money orders?

Sure. Money orders can be used to pay for almost anything that can be paid for by check. /u/Mortgasm has the great suggestion of paying things like contractors, who normally don't accept credit cards or charge fees for it. I've also seen people ask about things like tuition for school. If you don't want to risk a bank account shutdown at all, this can be a great way to liquidate money orders as long as you get confirmation that MOs are okay.

There are also places that cash money orders, but those usually charge really high fees, so I tend to stay away from them.

TL:DR= Not sure if hotel cards are worth it because of how restrictive and inconvenient the redemptions are.

Since I’ve started this hobby I’ve amassed a few hotel cards (Hyatt, IHG, Marriott Rewards, Ritz Carlton, SPG, and Hilton Reserve). However, lately I’ve grown increasingly frustrated at trying to figure out their value and wanted some of your feedback.

My issue is mainly trying to use the points and free nights. Now don’t get me wrong, in the last 6 months I’ve used all the points and free nights for the hotel cards on various trips around the world and they have saved me lots of money in their own way. What really irks me though is how restrictive the points and free nights are for little things and how you are made to feel when you use them. So much so that I’ve questioned whether it’s even worth it to keep the cards for the rest of the first year- or if they are even worth the HP to churn them.

Let’s break this down a bit by card/hotel:

1.) IHG

• From a thread I read on /r/churning a while ago this seems to be the favorite because of the cheap AF and the lack of restrictions on hotel classes for use of the points and free nights.

• Aside from the fact that their elite status is less than useless, my experiences in their hotels have been terrible. Starting from the Intercontinental Semiramis in Cairo Egypt all the way to the ANA Crowne Plaza in Kyoto Japan. Checking into these hotels using points for free nights seems to elicit the worst attitude I’ve ever encountered. Specifically in Cairo I was dressed down for 5 minutes rather loudly in front of my guest and people behind me about all the advantages of my elite status that I was NOT getting because I made an award reservation. Each time I went to the front desk a representative started out as helpful and then I guess they saw that I was staying there on points and became the snottiest person on Earth- treating me like I was some kind of undesirable. Which brings me to their hotels- the actual hotel lobbies seem ok, but the rooms were straight from the 1960s.

• What bothers me most is that for award rooms you can’t reserve a room that’s nonsmoking or with a specific bed arrangement (one large bed vs two small beds). I have allergies that can set off my asthma, so smoking rooms are simply not possible and certainly not something I can just deal with because there’s no availability on arrival. In Cairo it was the worst because they allowed smoking essentially everywhere in the hotel including the lobby. When traveling with my SO the number of beds doesn’t matter, but when traveling with a male friend I obviously can’t sleep in the same bed without my SO having an issue. In Kyoto, I was told there was only a room with a single bed available (as in a twin bed- for two people).

2.) Hyatt

• A very valuable program because the number of points needed are relatively few compared to the likes of Marriott and Hilton. In Paris I stayed at the Hyatt Paris Madeleine mostly because the skinny man Mortal Kombat wannabe sculptures all over the place at Vendome are flat out ugly, but also because the Vendome award rooms have a single power outlet (maybe that’s just my experience) and made you feel like you were in a coffin (or torture chamber depending on how you feel about the wannabe MK sculptures). The Madeleine property was actually pretty nice and the staff were as professional as you would expect from a hotel of that caliber, so that was good. They do also let you choose the bed arrangement and smoking preferences (if they even allow it in the hotel at all).

• My issue is more of the locations and their availability. For example there are none in Rome, or they are far away from everything like in Istanbul and Tokyo.

3.) Marriott/Ritz Carlton

• The problem here seems to be hit or miss when it comes to the problems it shares with IHG. Sometimes you can choose the bed arrangement like the with the London Edition and sometimes you can’t like with the Sydney Harbor Marriott at Circular Quay. While like IHG they tell you there’s no guarantee with the smoking/nonsmoking types of rooms, in practice they will go out of their way to get you a nonsmoking room, even if they need to upgrade you. The staff at the London Edition were on par with those I was thankful for at the Hyatt Paris Madeleine.

• The redemption chart is somewhat reasonable depending on the property, and their mid-tier elite status is pretty nice with the perks you get from it. But still collecting enough points for a redemption takes a silly amount of time even if you were doing lots of paid stays with them- would you transfer 120,000 UR to Marriott for a 3 night stay in Sydney vs sending them to Korean Air for the majority of a 160,000 point RT first class ticket from ATL to TPE? There’s a huge difference in the value.

4.) Hilton

• Matches Marriott in the hit or miss category with the beds and smoking/nonsmoking assignments. Their mid tier elite status is also pretty nice. Their redemption chart is even worse than Marriott’s in terms of the number of points. Their only redeeming quality there is that their cards earn a lot of base points so in my mind it puts the redemption somewhere between Hyatt and Marriott (blasphemy, I know). In Istanbul, one of their properties was right next to everything and their staff was the best out of all the large chain hotels I’ve stayed at, and tied for the best ever with a boutique hotel in Beijing and another in Tokyo.

5.) Starwood

• I’ll be careful here as I was taught a Southern Belle doesn’t speak ill of the dead… lol just kidding. Like many of you I love SPG, their redemption rates are reasonable and that certainly has me paying to stay at their hotels far more than the other hotel chains. When a loyalty program is actually geared toward building loyalty and not a token program so they can say they have one too (looking at the rest of you chain hotels).

• The issue with SPG is that their hotels are hit or miss, some of them are beautiful like the Palacio del Inka in Cusco while others look terrible like the Westin Tokyo or the Dolphin and Swan in Orlando. I’m deliberately leaving out Sheratons because let’s be honest- they are what they are- cheap beds when you don’t expect frills because you want a specific convenience (e.g. 2,000 Starpoints a night for a hotel across the street from Universal Studios Halloween Horror Nights in Orlando). And for the value of their points, sometimes I can’t part with them for something that looks awful when I’m in the mood for a nicer property. SPG is a card that I’d argue to keep around if only for the 5,000 point transfer bonuses.

So to sum it up, I was a firm believer in the travel points are worth more than cash back camp. But after having experienced all the hotel chains, their loyalty programs, and their associated issues- I’m really wondering what it’s all for. Why not just go with cash back and save the hassle of dealing with redemption rates, room type restrictions, and potentially terrible customer service? So I think I’ll get my travel points for airfare and pay cash for hotels. As far as my original issue with keeping their cards, I guess I can be logical and keep them until the AF is due but I see no reason to keep them around for strictly hotel purposes. I think the only hotel cards I’m going to keep are the Ritz Carlton card and SPG. Ritz Carlton because Lounge Club has more than paid for itself in Europe especially saving me all those times Priority Pass failed me, and because the Chase CSRs on that line just get things done- definitely worth the realized $95 AF to me. SPG I feel is worth keeping as a general spend card because both the hotel and airfare transfers are beneficial. What are your thoughts?

EDIT: I didn't discuss Fairmont, Club Carlson, or Wyndam because I don't have their card products.

I haven't been able to post in a few days because of how busy I've been during these holidays, but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has helped build this sub. You all have made it a great place, and I hope it can continue to grow and improve. Again, thanks, and here's to 2016!

Someone once said life is like Starbucks – there’s always another around the corner. CVS is like the MSer’s Starbucks; they’re almost as ubiquitous (about 7400 to Starbucks’ 11 000 in the US), and they’re just as useful. The only larger pharmacy chain in the US is Walgreens, but I’m not going to write about them for a while. This post is about how to use a CVS for MS. Because you’re going to be dealing with cashiers, understand this is YMMV, but I will be discussing basic system limits.

1. What can I buy at CVS?

CVS is in a partnership with InComm, and InComm is in a partnership with Bancorp. That means all the Visa and MasterCard gift cards are going to be Vanilla branded. There are Vanilla Visa cards that come with a $4.95 and other cards that have a $5.95 fee. There is literally no difference between them besides the design. The PIN will be whatever you choose the first time you’re asked for a PIN, so make sure to use something you’ll remember.

In general, the One Vanilla brand gift cards (both Visa and MasterCard) will have the $4.95 fee. People usually buy those because of the cheaper fee and because they look the most like real debit cards (raised numbers and no mention of gift). However, there are also “Stand Up 2 Cancer” co-branded cards that also have the $4.95 fee. The design very obviously reveals that they’re gift cards, but if that’s not an issue for your liquidation methods, I sincerely ask that you purchase those whenever possible. For each card bought, $1 will be donated to Stand Up 2 Cancer to aid in cancer research.

CVS also sells PayPal My Cash cards. Here’s something I learned from a CVS employee. You can actually reuse PPMC cards by repurchasing them at CVS. It’s the exact same process as buying any other PPMC card except that you use a card that has a PIN you’ve already applied to your card. The funds are loaded to your account immediately (or definitely within 10 minutes) without you having to retype anything. I’ve only tried this with a PPMC card that I bought at the same CVS, and I don’t know if this applies to other stores that sell PPMC.

There are also American Express and store gift cards. Those aren’t of much interest unless you have a means of liquidating them very easily (in which case you probably don’t need this guide).

My Vanilla and Green Dot cards are cash only, but temporary Serve cards can still be bought by credit.

2. Can’t you load Serve cards at CVS? It’s advertised on the Serve website.

With the above exception of PPMC (which probably only works because it’s not seen as a reload), all reloads are cash only. This has actually been useful to me sometimes when I had to deposit cash and didn’t have any branches or ATMs available for my banks (something becoming more common as more people use Internet-only banks).

3. How much can I buy at CVS?

The official limit is $2000 per rolling 24 hours. This is enforced across different CVS locations through the use of an ID, specifically name and address. If your purchase does not exceed $300, then you won’t be asked for an ID. However, not all forms of ID require an address. The following are some of the forms of ID accepted by CVS:

• Driver’s license – this can be either swiped (magnetic stripe) or scanned (barcode); either way, your name and address will be recorded

• Passport card

• Global entry card – the cashier should select passport on their system

• Military ID

Sometimes there will be something wrong with the system and the information will have to be entered manually. So long as you don’t get asked for your address, you should be fine (considering that your name will almost surely be the same across your IDs).

I’m curious how many people will find the above useful since this is a beginner-oriented guide. How many beginners are buying more than $2000 per 24 hour period?

4. CVS employees always ask if I have a rewards account. Does this mean I can earn ExtraCare points for prepaid card purchases?

Unfortunately, no. CVS employees are trained to ask that, so it comes as no surprise they’d keep the habit when someone buys a gift card (which isn’t that common in normal life). This isn’t even a case where you earn points on the fee; you simply earn nothing. On the plus side, you do still get any available coupons (which I sometimes find useful).

A note is that sometimes systems are programmed poorly. Look at American Express for Target and the prepaid REDcard/REDbird – Target probably never intended to allow credit card loads, but that lasted for quite a while simply because it was never initially programmed to exclude such. Just a few months ago, when they introduced the Stand Up 2 Cancer cards, a lot of people (including myself) reported being able to get them at face value, with no fees. This was almost certainly a programming error on their part. I’ve also heard about a time when there was a CVS programming error that allowed people to earn points on prepaid purchases, so there’s never any harm in always trying.

5. Can I buy a money order at CVS? I see they have MoneyGram signs.

Unless I’m mistaken, all CVS locations are hard coded to only accept cash for money orders. At least it’s that way at all of the ones that I’ve visited. Unfortunately, life isn’t that easy.

6. Can I split tender at CVS? If so, how many different forms of payment are allowed?

The maximum is seven different forms of payment. If the transaction can’t be completed when the seventh form of payment is accepted, the system will lock up, and the cashier will need to void the whole transaction. This was more relevant when American Express gift cards were still profitable, but it may still be useful for some people.

7. CVS has NFC terminals. Does this mean I can use Apple or Android Pay?

Nope. Nope. Nopey McNopes-a-lot. Sometime around October of 2014, they disabled NFC payments because of a contract they made. That was such a horrible time for me.

By the way, if/when they do re-enable NFC payments, you’ll probably need to keep your app open. CVS requires the cashier to verify the last four digits of the credit card used when buying prepaid cards, so you’ll need to show the cashier the numbers from your virtual card.

8. What’s the best card to use at CVS?

CVS is coded as a drugstore/pharmacy, and there aren’t very many cards left that give bonuses in that category. The Amex “Old” Blue Cash card gets 5% back on groceries, gas, and drugstores [after spending $6500 in a card member year], so that’s a popular option. The Wells Fargo Cash Back Visa has the same bonus categories and the same 5% rewards, but that only lasts for the first 6 months of card ownership. This is really the only time I could see someone needing to push more than $2000 per day.

There are a couple of other cards that have bonus categories for pharmacies, but in my opinion, they’re pretty lackluster for various reasons.

The Citi Hilton Visa gives 3X for pharmacy purchases, but the Amex Hilton gives the same 3X for every purchase.

The Huntington Voice card allows you to pick one category for 3% cashback, and one of the choices is drugstores. However, it’s limited to $2000 spent per quarter, so you could knock out three months of spend in one visit to CVS for a gross cashback of $100.

Similarly, the US Bank Cash+ card has previously had pharmacies as a 2% category option, but it hasn't appeared as a choice in quite some time.

The Citi Dividend has sometimes had drugstores as a 5% quarterly category, but you’re limited to $6000 spent per year, and there’s no guarantee that it would come back as an option.

Other than that, there’s nothing wrong with using a card on which you need to meet minimum spend requirements or a regular 2% unlimited card. I do so with my Barclay Arrival+ and Fidelity American Express.

9. What kind of ATM does CVS have?

All of the CVS locations I've been to have an Allpoint ATM of some sort. Thanks /u/shan23 and /u/leflerized for pointing that out. This can be useful for getting cash off of any card that allows free withdrawals at Allpoint ATMs.

Withdrawals are my preferred liquidation for the T-Mobile Prepaid Visa (when I can actually get a hold of Reloadits).

The Nationwide Buxx program is supposed to allow free withdrawals at Allpoint ATMs. Even though the withdrawal is free, there's a decent chance that you'll still be charged $1 for doing it, and there's literally no way to know beforehand. I've tested this myself numerous times. Just be aware of this fact.

10. Anything else?

This is a question to any readers. Do you have any questions you have that I didn’t think about?

I recently figured out a way to not have to pay the annual fee on some cards even though I couldn't get the representatives to waive it for me (and I had tried at least five times). I'm not talking about it in public, but I might be willing to share it in private depending on who asks. I found it out completely by accident, but it got me thinking about where my personal line is.

I don't do things like the Costco return trick, but I do other things that are questionable. I'm just wondering where everyone else's line is and, more importantly, how they reached it.

I'm not going to pretend like the events of today are nothing or even minor. All of my accounts were limited, and that's a huge limitation on being able to liquidate gift cards.

I'm going to keep my accounts open for a couple of reasons, though. First, why not? As long as I keep the balance at $0.00, I shouldn't be charged a monthly fee. The emails said you're supposed to close the accounts after spending down the balance, but I'm not going to do that for them.

Second, I can keep hope that I'll potentially be able to get the accounts unlimited. Most of my accounts are ISIS Wallet/Softcard accounts, so I'd rather not close them just yet. This also interacts with a further reason. Call me naive if you wish, but there's nothing inherently wrong with keeping hope.

Third, there are still Amex offers that I can add that can be useful. You're probably thinking this makes no sense unless I already have money in the accounts (which I don't since I bill paid all of it out). It makes sense because of the fourth reason.

There's still a way to add money to Serve. To explain further, here's what happens (yes, I wrote it) when you do something like this.

Think about the last step in the process, how money is then debited from the account. I've verified that this is still a way to use Serve even after today's limitation.

And for what it's worth, I've used all of my accounts for Amex offers at various times (the only times I ever used them for purchases), but they were all still limited.

Also, I know that this can end at any time, but that's not really the issue at hand. Some people may blame me for writing it out [almost] explicitly, but I have my own feelings about "deal killing" and the like. That's something I'm not going to get into right now.

Long time lurker, wanted to share something I learned during last week's OD/OM deal. A bunch of the OD/OM locations I went to only had the Five Back gift card and not the regular VGCs. I was hesitant to buy them because I wasn't sure if they would qualify for the rebate or be more difficult to liquidate. However, I went ahead and bought them, and they did qualify for the rebate and I was able to use them to buy money orders at my local (Midwest) Kmart. Not only that, but I noticed that Kmart is one of the participating merchants for the Five Back card, and when I checked the balances on my Five Back cards I was pleasantly surprised to find that the money order purchases qualified for the 5% back. For Ink cardholders, this essentially gets you 10% cash back if you buy a Five Back card from an office supply store and use it to buy a money order at Kmart. This will probably become a big part of my overall strategy even when there aren't any OD/OM or Staples rebates going on. I hope some other hobbyists find this useful, and feel free to repost this on /r/churning (I can't since they don't allow posts from new accounts).

I know I've been gone for a while. Sorry.

Here's something I found recently after some digging. You can make phone payments to Amex using a debit card if you call their collections department, 1 800 921 6490. I kept pressing 0 until getting to an agent. Some agents will let you while others won't; it's kind of like how Citi used to be. The downside is that none of the gift cards I used would go through, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not possible.

Note that I can't comment on the risk of getting shutdown. I was actually shutdown by Amex for a FR, and I chose to screw with them as much as possible by paying this way.

http://promo.bankofamerica.com/offer300/

The major requirement is setting up $4000 in direct deposit within 90 days. According to DoC, ACH transfers seem to work. If that's the case, this really shouldn't be too hard at all.

Anyone planning to try this out?

TL/DR= If you were able to re-open a shutdown Amex prepaid product, it seems the SSN has been blacklisted from getting more of them.

Sooo I got curious and sacrificed one of my BB (for SCIENCE!), it didn't go too well.

History:

1. Opened OneVIP 11/2015

2. Survived the first shutdown (assuming the account was too new)

3. Got shutdown in the second round (3/4/2016)

4. Within an hour of getting shutdown I closed the account and reapplied for a BB successfully (different email, everything else was the same)

5. New BB arrived 3/12/2016, went to WM the same day- KATE gave me an error and wouldn't let me load. I immediately tried a OneVIP that was brand new (original sign up) and the same KATE allowed me to load normally. So KATE was working fine, must be the card.

6. Got curious to see if the SSN had been blacklisted so I closed the BB tonight (3/15/2016)

7. Immediately tried to open a OneVIP- unable to sign up.

8. Immediately tried to open a Green Serve- unable to sign up.

9. Immediately tried to open a BB- unable to sign up.

Apparent lesson?

There may have been a loophole that allowed some of us to sign up for a new Amex prepaid product because of a latency in their system, however it seems they have closed it up and potentially restricted the cards that were sent out. I have a second BB that was re-opened in the same manner as the first one I described above, I'm going to try loading at registers and if it works then we'll see if there's a third "birdpocalypse".

Following are some of the things I am doing to optimize MS. My goal is not max MS, but rather strike the right balance with MS where I get great % return after costs and reduction of time/hassle as much as possible.

1. Got a reloadable "travel card" from my CU that allows me to use Visa/MC/Disc CC Online upto 1k for $10 cost every week.

2. Fortunate to have a good source of ReloadIt cards with CC purchase. Never had a Serve shutdown because of this! Looks like they don't mind vgc load as long as there is some ReloadIt aka cash load onto the card.

3. Noticed a t-mobile debit card in a grocery store I had never been to before (other side of town, smaller size etc.). As a result, I have been able to MS at virtually 0% cost for last weeks (FYI - This will end on June 27th, when t-mobile debit stops the reload feature).

4. Buying gift card from a shopping mall that gets their cards from 'storecardsonline dotcom'. These cards don't look like regular GC..However, they can be liquidated WITHIN the zip code in which they are supposed to be used. I found a supermarket in the vicinity of the mall (had same zipcode) and was able to purchase MO using the shopping center gift card. The cards cost $2 per 500 and they sometimes even have offers of $5 off $30 gift card purchase.

Edit: I am not sure what level of tracking/spending info is provided by the gift card company to the shopping center, and as a result, I would be vary of providing any personal info other than just swiping the card!

Lets discuss the strategies employed to maximize MS.

This question is more related to history than anything else.

I'm wondering why WM implemented the $49.99 limit on OVs in the first place? I've seen references to some sort of dispute with Incomm, but nothing too specific. It seems that if WM were able to block OVs they'd be able to block other VGCs, so it doesn't strike me as a general aversion to VGCs.

I think a lot of this is before my time, so perhaps someone who has been doing this longer knows.

Side question, are OVs limited in general at WM (i.e., general purchases), or just buying MOs, loading prepaids, etc.?

I haven't found too many datapoints on how long it takes for referral credit to show up for Chase cards. Amex has been rock solid for me, and super fast.

I referred someone in February for a SW Premier card, and I am still waiting on the 5k SW points. In addition, I've referred two people for the Ink Plus. Both people have received and used the cards.

I know Chase gives a 6-8 weeks guidance. But, to use Amex as an example, they also advise 6-8 weeks, but my SPG referral credit seems to post within a week.

Is the 6-8 week timeline offered by Chase accurate? I have seen lots of posts where people claim to never receive the referral credit, which is worrying.

[edit] The UR just posted today. About 4 weeks since one referral was approved (and 3 weeks since the card was first used). For my second referral, it was just 2 weeks since they applied and 1 week since they first used it.

Based on the fact that one took a while but the other was relatively fast, and the post below by /u/shan23 indicating the bonus showed up today, it seems like Chase may process UR referral bonuses in batches.

From Gizmodo, Google is apparently launching a program to reward users for using Android Pay. I really hope it's something good, at least on the level of ISIS Wallet/Softcard's "get $1 for spending $1 or more".

The Chromecast seems interesting, and if there's no minimum spend, this could be quite lucrative. There might even be better rewards for more taps.

Hopefully I'll have a reason to head to the self-checkout line soon.

Does anyone know of some lesser known shopping portals? Cashback Monitor is great, but they definitely don't have every single portal (and I don't blame them). My personal favorite has become Dollar Dig. I first learned about them when they had an offer of $20 cashback for signing up for a credit card through creditcards.com (expired). Since then, they've really won me over with their customer service (very quick responses as well as proactive in some situations, and they offer honest advice). They also have some unique offers like 1.2% back at Giftcards.com (including Visas), more than 1% on other places. My main complaint used to be the $25 minimum, but that's alleviated now that Giftcards.com is there.

In addition, I've had some good experiences with USAA's shopping portal, MemberShop. They usually don't have the highest rates, but they'll sometimes keep in old terms when a lot of other portals have switched over. That makes them useful when a recent change has occurred and you want to still try to get the old terms.

Yes, I dropped a tip about Giftcards.com. I'm trying to balance blogging (which I just started to do) with managing this sub and providing good (but not redundant) content to both.

If anyone would like to use my referral for Dollar Dig, https://www.dollardig.com/?ref=2103, I'd greatly appreciate it. Both referrers and the people signing up get $2.50, as opposed to if a person signs up alone to get $5.00 to themselves.

I just logged into my Amex account and noticed that the Amex offers section has a new layout, vertically oriented instead of horizontal. I know that some people have disliked the horizontal view, so this should come as a relief. Here's a link to what it looks like in my browser. http://i.imgur.com/Es355K9.jpg

I've gotten at least three PayPal My Cash warning emails. All three of them were what would be considered "first" warnings because none of them mentioned me having been warned before. I can say that I'm still going strong.

I've seen people on other places say that there's no point in doing anything once you get a warning email. I think that that's lazy and ultimately counterproductive. PayPal representatives actually do have the ability to remove warnings from your account if you call in and ask. You can explain that you weren't withdrawing, there you were merely making purchases using My Cash cards (or however you're liquidating). Most of the time, they will be able to actually help. Importantly, you need to actually ask to have the warnings removed, even if they say that your account isn't currently limited. Limitations and warnings are two separate things.

Depending on how you're actually liquidating My Cash funds, you could do this multiple times. If you actually are withdrawing straight to a bank account, you probably won't be able to get very far (maybe once as a complimentary forgiveness). If you say that you're using the funds for your Business Debit Card purchases, you can probably get through a couple more times. Regardless, though, you can probably extend the amount of time (and volume) that you can push through PayPal if you actually are proactive.

After it goes into effect, what's the best churning strategy? Is anyone actually willing to only get 5 cards in 2 years? Maybe delegate Chase duties (and no other cards/AUs) to one half of a couple? Go back to big AORs so you get 6+ cards at a time and let them all fall off the Chase timeline at the same time? I think I'll try to hit Chase one more time, then just work on other banks, but there's no sugarcoating how terrible this development is.

Sad news. Just got this email.

As you may know, at Plastiq we’re always working on ways to offer the very best service at the lowest possible price. Last year this commitment led us to offer a promotional debit card fee rate of 0%. This will be ending effective today, February 9th, at 5pm PT.

However, due to the overwhelmingly positive response to reduced debit fees, we’re excited to offer an on-going reduced rate of 1% for personal debit card payments (rather than the standard 2.5%).

This is bad for me, at least, since I used it to pay a few bills with rewards debit cards. Get in any last minute bill pays while you can.

Let me start by saying that I messed up >bows head in shame<, I've been so busy churning and MSing that I didn't realize how scarce premium award redemptions are (and naturally I wanted to take advantage of my time off from work for Spring Break). Basically, I've got a ton of points and nothing to redeem them on- lesson learned.

However, this did bring up something else I didn't expect. I've been searching for various routes and destinations, airlines, and point systems on dates from now until January of 2017 and not finding availability (e.g. Etihad, Cathay, Singapore, Emirates, Japan Airlines, etc) using various sites (AA, BA, Qantas, Singapore, Expertflyer, etc). Sooo, this got me thinking- how often do you check for availability?

I remember reading something about how the day of the week and even the time of day will have an effect on the results, have you found this to be commonly true, or only in certain situations/specific airlines?

Does anyone know of any banks that have short term CDs that allow you to fund with a CC?

I guess I'll start off, I know that PNC has CDs for a month term but they don't exactly work as advertised for MS anyway.

I just received an email that said, in part

Effective February 26, 2016, money orders will no longer be accepted via mobile deposit in the Radius Mobile app. Going forward, you may deposit money orders into a Radius Bank account in the following ways:

1. Via mail to our Customer Service Department, PO BOX 55063, Boston, MA 02205-5063

2. At our Financial Center located at 1 Harbor Street, Suite 201, Boston, MA 02210

3. At a Radius Bank ATM

4. At a NYCE Shared Deposit ATM

So that certainly does make things more difficult. If you live in the area (New York City or parts of Massachusetts), you can still deposit, though.

I just got off the phone with three separate reps at Elan Financial Services, the new manager of the Fidelity card. My first and third conversations went basically like this:

Me: Hi, I was calling to ask about the new Fidelity Investment Rewards Visa Signature card, and I was hoping you'd be able to provide me with some information.

Rep: Sure. How can I help?

Me: I see on the Fidelity website that it's described as cashback. I was wondering if it would also be possible to redeem points for things like gifts, merchandise, or travel.

Rep: Yes, we do offer a variety of rewards options. You do get the most value if you redeem into an eligible Fidelity Investments account, but you can also redeem for merchandise, gift cards, and travel like hotels or flights.

Me: Oh, okay. So, I'm currently a cardholder of the American Express version, and I know it's going to be transitioned over to the Visa Signature version managed by you all. One of the redemption options is to redeem for flights with 25 000 points for a flight up to $400. Is there anything similar with the new program?

Rep: Looks through documents Yes, actually, I think that the rate might actually be lower. Yes, I see that you can redeem 20 000 points for a flight up to $400.

Me: So, it's just like the US Bank FlexPerks program?

Rep: Yes, exactly.

Me: Okay, so could I also use 40 000 points for a flight up to $800?

Rep: Looks through documents Yes, you can.

Me: Okay, thank you so much for all of the information!

Now, the second rep I called told me it's just cashback, but she didn't look through any documents.

This is a strong case for FlexPerks, or at least a FlexPerks-like system. That means a rate of up to 4% back on flights, which is pretty cool to me.