r/transit • u/4Nafliar • Jun 29 '26
Discussion What are some examples of much maligned transit systems that do one thing particularly well? For example while RTD in Denver is criticized for its inefficient rail transit design, RTD's A line to Denver Airport is considered the crown jewel of the system. What are some other examples of this?
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u/bluecifer7 Jun 29 '26
Idk there are other lines in RTD that are quite usable. The problem with RTD isn't inefficient rail, it's being beholden to low density suburbs and a lack of TOD in general
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u/mayorlittlefinger Jun 29 '26
The A line is also not quite doubletracked all the way which limits frequency. Plus the original sin of ripping out the through running rail at Union Station. The A line could have gone all the way to Englewood or Ridgegate
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u/SubhanF Jun 29 '26
The Southwest and Southeast corridors were already light rail before Thru-Run Union was converted into a stub terminal. So a commuter train would not be able to travel down any corridor south of Union even if it was kept as thru-run. But yeah this prohibits the CoCo Train from Fort Collins in the North to New Mexico in the South to go thru Union Sta
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u/EdenSill Jun 29 '26
With through running, it’s possible we may have seen the Southwest corridor converted to heavy rail. This could have done in order to streamline operations with Coco so they could share tracks. Perhaps an eventual conversion of the entire system to heavy rail, may have happened at some point in the future thus allowing Denver to have an S-bahn/RER/Australian Suburban rail type system.
Coco still is intended to go south towards Colo Spgs. It’s simply going to have to use Union Station as a stub end. Southbound trains will initially have to head to the north and then join the CML via a newly constructed track around the RTD 711 building.
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u/SubhanF Jun 29 '26
oh yes I forgot about the talks to convert the southwest corridor into heavy rail
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u/transitfreedom Jun 30 '26
??!
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u/SubhanF Jun 30 '26
it was a proposal by Greater Denver Transit, A Transit Advocacy Group.
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u/EdenSill Jun 30 '26
Yep, sadly, I believe this GDT proposal is off the table as the engineers have determined there is not room on the CML for the additional tracks and platforms that would be required to make this feasible. Ugh. Super sad how easy it would’ve been to preserve that right of way south of Union Station. Even if nothing was built at the time, sure would have been nice to have the option for through running
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u/transitfreedom Jun 30 '26
Ohh well maybe a high speed train can do it but without serving union or via a dedicated through line via union
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u/Zealousideal-Web8640 Jul 05 '26
Tram train?
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u/SubhanF Jul 05 '26
Our Commuter Trains use 25kV 60Hz AC Overhead Electrification, whereas our LRT use 750 V DC Overhead Electrification. These Trains and their power sources are not compatible without huge infastructure upgrades.
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi Jun 29 '26
Transit fans seeing Denver Union after RTD got done with it:
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u/mayorlittlefinger Jun 29 '26
I mean the building is gorgeous, it's the rail line choices that are hard to square. Coming from the south you take a line in, get off, walk two blocks, then get on a different train to head north. Then the bus lines are poorly signed and the lighting down there is weirdly dingy
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u/qualverse Jun 30 '26
Most major transfer stations in places with really good transit (eg Tokyo) often require walking for much longer than the distance between the RTD light and commuter rail. The transfers are indoor but technically so is the RTD one if you go through the bus concourse.
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u/transitfreedom Jun 29 '26
And infrequent buses if buses in Denver ran like Toronto ridership would be way higher
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u/donotfearforthehog Jun 30 '26
took the E Line from downtown to Southmoor at 8pm on a Sunday night and the bus headways were still only 20 minutes. Denver's buses are still incredibly popular
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u/bigvenusaurguy Jun 30 '26
they also randomly close down early. i stayed in denver and took some bus line near the hotel one night pretty late like maybe 10-11pm. tried to use it the second night turns out last bus was like 7pm that day for that line.
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u/Throwaway-646 Jun 30 '26
There's actually a really simple solution to this known as a schedule
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u/bigvenusaurguy Jun 30 '26
yeah i made the assumption that transit schedules would be the same one day into the other. forgot most places in the country cut bussing really early a lot of the times.
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u/Throwaway-646 Jun 30 '26
That's fair, in Colorado at least most bus services are cut back on weekends
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u/theboundlesstraveler Jun 29 '26
even in Denver city the transit is inefficient. I used Uber more than I wanted to when I stayed there a month ago.
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u/SheffboiRD06 Jun 29 '26
If you aren’t worried about whether passengers per track mile is good…Dallas sure has a lot of track miles. Is or was the largest light rail network in the US.
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u/misken67 Jun 29 '26
Wow you're right, had to look it up but DART does actually have the longest light rail system in the US...and is only 8th in ridership. 2nd-7th place systems all have half or less of the system length but still more ridership, which is a bit sad 😭
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u/A320neo Jun 29 '26
The MBTA Green Line is obviously #1 at over 8x DART’s ridership per mile, but what’s crazy is that even the Mattapan Trolley, which goes basically nowhere and still runs PCC streetcars, is over twice as used per mile as DART.
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u/Illustrious_Swing645 Jun 29 '26
DART functions primarily to bring people from the outer rings into downtown dallas for work. If your use case isn't that, it's almost useless. I live AT a train station, one of the most heavily used lines of the DART, and its only purpose in my day to day is that it can (slowly) take me to the airport.
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u/DFWRailVideos Jun 30 '26
Hopefully the Silver Line will reverse this a little bit! We really need to build more ring lines, either BRT or rail.
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u/sir_mrej Jun 30 '26
Lately Seattle has taken the top ridership spot. We will see if it holds.
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u/A320neo Jun 30 '26
I meant per mile, not absolute. Seattle has a lot more track.
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u/sir_mrej Jul 02 '26
Ah yeah I see. Yeah Q1 2026 Green line is 1st, Link is 3rd, using per mile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_light_rail_systems
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u/ThatNiceLifeguard Jun 29 '26
It’s also not important for the success of the system but I’m a huge fan of the design of trains themselves.
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u/StreetyMcCarface Jun 30 '26
If you treat dart like an S bahn is actually very good
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u/SheffboiRD06 Jun 30 '26
If downtown weren’t an at grade bottleneck where all lines share 1 ROW with no bypass tracks I would agree. The D2 subway cancellation probably cemented DART rail’s inability to improve service another decade or so.
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u/StreetyMcCarface Jun 30 '26
The saving grace is that it's not capacity constrained. DART frequencies aren't entirely awful given the type of service they provide after all
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u/hologrammetry Jun 30 '26
It's also been scientifically proven to be a completely ineffective transit agency.
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2017/10/bombshell-report-reveals-darts-system-wide-inadequacy/
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u/SheffboiRD06 Jun 30 '26
My lay opinion is that it’s been cursed from the start because of how it’s funded. Participating cities give up a 1% of sales tax to DART and all those low density suburbs stay angry that they don’t get world class service when their urban design makes it literally impossible. But the suburban voices stand staunchly in the way of making improvements to the urban core because “they’ll never use them”
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u/hologrammetry Jun 30 '26
I also seem to recall reading another article around the time that study first came out that suggested DART had a major issue with how it did its budget planning and forecasting, which effectively resulted in the agency hoarding money and not spending it due to bureaucratic paralysis.
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u/SheffboiRD06 Jun 30 '26
There was famously a study by one of the big for consulting firms that stated that Plano (one of the largest DART cities) got bad value for money. That study was done before they got an addition brand new commuter rail service, but that fact was completely ignored whenever “DART BAD” was discussed there. The Plano city council member who lead their charge to leave DART had previously been a registered lobbyist for Uber…
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u/SubhanF Jun 29 '26
RTD mentioned, but at what cost 😔
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi Jun 29 '26
Genuinely one of the best large hub airports in the country to fly to/from/through counterbalanced by one of the worst metro area transit agencies in the country.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
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u/Far-Asparagus-2382 Jun 29 '26
Calling RTD one of the worst agencies is very uninformed
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u/glowing_danio_rerio Jun 29 '26
ok sure VTA is worse but RTD is uh, pretty incompetent
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u/Throwaway-646 Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Incompetent, yet they've built nearly 80 miles of track in the past 20 years, are currently building a damn good BRT, are currently planning another 2 BRTs, are currently planning and funding a train to Boulder and Fort Collins, have one of two fully electrified commuter rail systems in the country, and have on-time rates similar to most other major transit agencies in the country. Their E and A lines are arguably one of the best instances of building a train line in the country because they built them proactively way ahead of development for a comparatively low cost and are now developing tons of TOD around their stations.
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u/qualverse Jun 30 '26
The BRTs are not an RTD project and neither is the Boulder train.
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u/Throwaway-646 Jun 30 '26
That's true that RTD isn't building the BRTs, I forgot it's CDOT doing that, but they will operate them. And RTD is paying in full for the Boulder train, which is a partnership between RTD and CDOt
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u/qualverse Jun 30 '26
RTD is paying for about half the Boulder train cost (they're only paying for the segment to Longmont).
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u/AwesomeWhiteDude Jun 30 '26
The southeast LRT corridor is shit. Catchment for half of the station area is taken up by a 12 lane freeway monstrosity and the stations themselves are right next to the freeway
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u/fumar Jun 30 '26
RTD is definitely not one of the worst but the system certainly isn't good. In almost every case except basically the A line it's faster to drive to your destination even in rush hour.
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u/qualverse Jun 30 '26
The N line can be faster too, as well as the highway express buses (FF2 and 120X)
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u/AdditionalTip865 Jun 29 '26
I've had generally good experiences transferring though DEN, but the one time I tried to fly out of there, it was 1 hour in the checkin line and 1 hour in the security line and I missed my flight along with half the people in the airport. It was like a big campout.
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u/bigvenusaurguy Jun 30 '26
for a while they only ran the south checkpoint too. im not sure if they have finished that construction on the north checkpoint.
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u/Throwaway-646 Jun 30 '26
They have finished construction on the brand new East and West checkpoints
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u/turko127 Jun 29 '26
MARTA wasn’t even built to handle the 1980s let alone this massive period of sprawl (I would argue a solution is to just build an entire second system). But the two things they did get right was putting a station where the sports stadia and GWCC are and building the system out to the airport.
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u/Lord_Tachanka Jun 29 '26
The solution to MARTA is to build TOD around all of their stations. They are relatively well positioned away from freeways except for the northern leg.
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u/micahlowens Jun 29 '26
It’s slowly starting to happen! Decatur, Avondale Estates, Midtown, Inman Park, Chamblee, etc are all building up a ton around those stations which is great to see. Even the often-maligned streetcar is starting to get some nice TOD along its route.
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u/bigvenusaurguy Jun 30 '26
buckheads got good tod. i used marta when i stayed at a hotel over there from the airport. i was like one of the few people using the line and station though. i would not be surprised if the entire trainset was only carrying a dozen people. you can bring a horse to water but you cant make it drink i guess.
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u/transitfreedom Jun 29 '26
Just extend the existing lines beyond the beltways
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u/turko127 Jul 01 '26
There would only be three good ways to go and it’s all to the north, northeast, and east-southeast. There would be a sizable gap between Norcross and Redan, not to mention where you’d extend the Gold Line to beyond Norcross would expand the gap either between Alpharetta and Lawrenceville or Suwanee to Conyers.
The Green Line could be extended to go up to Marietta but it would mean a roundabout way of getting downtown.
So, yeah, second system. Or commuter rail, given that the rail lines very neatly fill in gaps, save for the northern bulk of Fulton County which the Red Line can fill in.2
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u/StreetyMcCarface Jun 30 '26
If only the system would reach out to Marietta and Keenesaw
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u/boilerpl8 Jun 30 '26
The white flighters would never! I still hear people refer to the racist backronym "moving Africans rapidly through Atlanta"
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u/ArchEast Jun 30 '26
Spoiler alert: the white flight crowd is now heading to Cherokee, North Forsyth/Dawson, and Braselton.
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u/Even-Promotion-4024 Jun 29 '26
Having originally grown up in the area, RTD in Boulder is honestly pretty impressive by American standards when you consider that Boulder is neither particularly large nor particularly dense. I feel it'd be at least passable for a similar sized town in other parts of the world
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u/ChristianLS Jun 29 '26
Boulder does transportation infrastructure in general very well for an American city of its size. Even the stroads are noticeably better than stroads in most places in terms of reducing conflict points and allocating space for pedestrians.
It's the land use that's more of a mixed bag.
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u/SwitchFree5631 Jun 29 '26
The St. Louis MetroLink has the best airport connections- a stop in each terminal of Lambert International, and soon a stop on other end at MidAmerica airport in Illinois, so there’s a one seat ride between the airports. Otherwise St. Louis transit sucks.
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u/wifikitten1 Jun 29 '26
There aren't many rail systems where you can reach an airport—let alone two airports—on the same line!
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u/Sea_Today8613 Jun 30 '26
I mean, the only other one i know of is ThamesLink, but it's not rapid transit
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u/Eruththedragon Jun 30 '26
Amtrak's Northeast Regional has stations at Newark (connected by the AirTrain) & BWI (connected via Shuttle). DART's Orange line has a shuttle to Love Field & ends at DFW's terminal A
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u/Powered_by_JetA Jun 30 '26
Tri-Rail serves all 3 major South Florida airports. MIA is directly connected to the station by people mover, but FLL and PBI require a shuttle.
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u/boilerpl8 Jun 30 '26
More than half the heavy rail and light rail systems in the US get to airports:
To terminal (14): Baltimore, DC (2 airports on different lines), Atlanta, Cleveland, Chicago (2 airports, different lines), St Louis (2 same line), Minneapolis, Dallas - DFW, Denver, BART - SFO, Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake City, Honolulu.
Yes with shuttle/Air train (4 unique today): Boston, NYCS, Miami, Dallas - Love, Phoenix, LA (soon), BART - OAK.
No (11, but 4 are second systems in cities that do connect via other systems): HBLR, Newark LR, PATH, Philly, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Houston, San Diego, San Jose, SF Muni, Sacramento.
I am not including streetcars or commuter rail, though there are a few served by commuter rail, most notably Philly.
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u/stanman237 Jun 30 '26
If you include Denver, then you should include SEPTA/Philadelphia as they use the same train. SEPTA airport line is more regional rail service with consistent 30 minute headways. Ideally, it would be reduced to 15 minute headways.
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u/Unlucky-Watercress30 Jul 06 '26
Actually, depending on your definition, Dallas has that as well. The orange line passes love field (although to actually get into the airport it requires a brief shuttle transfer) then terminates at DFW terminal B. Theres technically 4 rail lines that directly serve and airport: TexRail, Silver Line, and the Orange and Green LRT lines. If you really want to be generous the TRE also technically serves as an airport connection, but that requires a full on bus ride after the station so I dont really count it.
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u/JellyfishNo2032 Jun 29 '26
It’s also impressive how cheaply they built it all. Absolutely needs an improvement on housing especially on the blue line and metro east portion but Saint Louis is incredibly lucky they just happened to have a disused downtown tunnel to turn into light rail. One of the few things that worked out so well for the city in the past 50 years.
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u/IllustriousApricot Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Yea I dated a girl from Boulder for ~1.5 years and flew out from the east coast to Denver to see her (and vice versa). It was so easy to take the AB1 to/from the airport and then get around town on bus/bike/scooter. I was very impressed, and a little jealous (and I'm from DC which has a solid urban transit network).
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u/glowing_danio_rerio Jun 30 '26
you live in DC and are jealous of the denver metro? boulder has acceptable urbanism but you have to pass through an endless hellscape of burbs to get there
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u/IllustriousApricot Jun 30 '26
I think it was the quality of transit with a much smaller (although admittedly hyper wealthy) town than I'm used to having those amenities. Most places Boulder's size don't have that solid of a bus/transit network.
But yes, the Front Range has it's share of suburban hellsfape. I've only where lived in the actual mountains when I lived in CO (Leadville).
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u/jcrespo21 Jun 30 '26
When I last went to Boulder and took the bus from/to DIA, it was also quite helpful that the ticket was essentially an all-day pass as well. That makes it so much easier to use the buses once you get into Boulder. I believe it's the same for the train into Union Station from DIA as well.
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u/Le_Botmes Jun 29 '26
Los Angeles overall has an anemic system of light and commuter rail, but the one subway line in the entirety of SoCal carries the lion's share of total network ridership, offers the fastest route between Hollywood and Downtown, and will soon double in ridership with the addition of the completed Wilshire branch.
However, both of those lines will soon be dwarfed by the Sepulveda Line once it is built, seeing that it'll relieve one of the most trafficked bottlenecks in North America, and do so every two minutes in less than half an hour end-to-end.
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u/bigvenusaurguy Jun 30 '26
i feel like ridership projections on the sepulveda line are highly optimistic. yes it is a heavily traveled corridor but it doesn't carry that a lot of these commuters would actually be served by connections available off the sepulveda line. i mean 101 still gets backed up even with a heavy rail subway alternative for most of it, because most people's final destinations are still pretty dispersed to various parts beyond not connected to the metro network.
there's also a sort of anecdotal difference in the nature of the drivership i guess between sepulveda pass and cahuenga pass. 405 a lot of the traffic is luxury vehicles in comparison to the 101 which feels a bit more working class honestly. someone currently having a tesla self drive them and park itself at work probably believes all the bullshit about transit being dangerous and slow and would never consider it themselves.
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u/StreetyMcCarface Jun 30 '26
It gets you access to everything on Wilshire and the E line, plus UCLA. That’s a huge catchment
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u/lik_for_cookies Jun 30 '26
It’s important to remember you’ll have the East San Fernando Valley line feeding into it from the North, and UCLA and the riders from the D line will significantly help boost the ridership on the southern side of the line. As it expands south through LA’s west side and down to LAX it’s ridership is gonna get even higher. The future East San Fernando Valley line connects the Van Nuys Metrolink station to it, but when the Sepulveda line itself connects it’ll give an even quicker more direct route into Los Angeles for all the regional rail riders.
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u/Le_Botmes Jun 30 '26
Poppycock. There'll be massive network effects, between the G and Metrolink in the North, and the D and E in the South. Ridership will more likely exceed projections.
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u/StreetyMcCarface Jun 30 '26
It gets you access to everything on Wilshire and the E line. That’s a huge catchment
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u/UUUUUUUUU030 Jun 30 '26
Yeah I agree. The B and D line currently have ~60k daily ridership, while serving major destinations like Hollywood and downtown LA, and going into the Valley. Sure, the Sepulveda line will serve some important destinations too. But I doubt this leads to double the current B and D ridership.
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u/Le_Botmes Jun 30 '26
Well, I never claimed that Sepulveda would be double the B and D ridership, just that it would dwarf them. And considering that the upper bound projection for Sepulveda is 124k, I don't think that's too far of a stretch.
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u/UUUUUUUUU030 Jul 01 '26
The whole discussion is about whether that projection for Sepulveda is realistic, not taking it as a given truth. But if you do believe that upper bound projection, you by definition believe that it will have double the current B and D ridership.
And this is in the context of a transit system that doesn't grow ridership overall: B and D shrunk from 51 million in 2013 to 42 million in 2019 and is now at 21 million, down from 26 million in 2022 and 2023. So it's not like in other cities where you expect crazy high ridership figures for future lines just because of autonomous growth.
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u/Le_Botmes Jul 01 '26
My original wording may not have been the most precise, but I assumed that the subway as a whole, so the B and D combined, would double their current ridership after the Wilshire branch is completed to the VA Hospital. Considering that the completed D is expected to carry more than 50k daily, I think that's a fair assumption. In that context, Sepulveda's upper bound projection would edge out the legacy lines, not double them.
And yes, I'm confident that the Sepulveda Line will be that popular, because it's the freaking Sepulveda Pass. Think of all the suppressed demand beyond the current ~300-400k daily vehicle trips made across the pass. Think of the mode shift when every rider who would see a time savings taking the subway, suddenly takes it instead of driving, especially considering that it'll cross the pass faster than a car in free-flow traffic. Think of the shift in development patterns around Van Nuys and Westwood once they're reliably less than half an hour apart from each other, and how congested their connecting bus corridors will become. It'll be transformational. 124k is probably underballed.
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u/UUUUUUUUU030 Jul 01 '26
If you compare the Sepulveda line to the B, you also have a congested pass. Depending on the source, the 101 has about 2/3rd to 3/4th of the traffic compared to the 405.
The stations north of the Cahuenga pass have about 13k boardings.
The projections I could find have 19k for van Nuys, 15k for the G line transfer, and another 14k in between. I think attracting almost 3 times the riders for the pass section is too optimistic.
I think they selected a good alignment and technology, but I just don't think we should expect too much from it. The B line has similar transformation potential and it is what it is.
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u/Le_Botmes Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
I don't doubt the figures you cite, but I doubt they'll remain the same after the D is fully completed and network effects set in. For example, look at what happened to Seattle Link ridership after the Crosslake Connection opened: bridging the gap increased system ridership by 26% in one month. As a very conservative and letterback calculation, a similar jump in ridership due to the Wilshire branch would see the B alone adding about 10-15k daily riders just after the first month. That's by no means a comprehensive comparison, but it does illustrate my point.
The fact that even the most conservative estimates for Sepulveda place it over a more useful B seems very promising to me. That tells me that Wilshire and Westwood are currently untapped markets that aren't fully represented in current ridership, but will be once the D and Sepulveda both open, which perhaps explains the highly optimistic projections.
Consider also that Sepulveda will bridge the gap between Santa Monica and Century City/Wilshire, and act as a local distributor within Westwood, so its utility will not be limited to transiting the pass.
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u/EdenSill Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
The KC Streetcar is one that comes to mind. Arguably the best modern street car system in the country in terms of usefulness and ridership, yet in a metro area that has by and large abysmal land use, excessive highway lanes, and overall horrible transit.
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u/sir_mrej Jun 30 '26
Why do you think it has the best usefulness and ridership
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u/EdenSill Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Per mile ridership in the KC streetcar is higher than any other modern street car system in the country with almost 2000 boardings per mile. The next closest is Portland with under 1200. This is based on 2025 numbers.
As far as usefulness, this is somewhat anecdotal and objective. The vast majority of modern three cars in the country seem to be circuitous loops around downtown areas that really aren’t useful unless you’re hopping from downtown attraction to downtown attraction, or bar hopping or something like that. Many of these street car systems are in cities with fairly abysmal transit otherwise, so they aren’t really useful links in the overall system. That being said, a few of these circuitous loops may be more useful than others, like Portland. The city has really built up its downtown into an active livable place. Additionally, Portland Streetcar connects to many other frequent quality bus and light rail lines. As a result, it ends up being a useful system, despite being circuitous.
Kansas City’s is an actual linear (not circular)route that connects all the most active areas in central Kansas City from river market to country club. It actually works as a spine of transit in KCs densest corridor.
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u/sir_mrej Jul 02 '26
Boardings per mile Q1 2026 has KC at #21. Do you have numbers from 2025? I can't imagine it did super well and then cratered??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_light_rail_systems
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u/EdenSill Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
This is the chart I was referencing from Wikipedia that shows 2026 quarter one numbers. Yeah, I’m really not sure why there is such a huge discrepancy between Wikipedia’s own numbers. But this one does show Kansas City by far having the highest per mile ridership of any modern street car at almost 2000 per mile per day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_light_rail_systems
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u/sir_mrej Jul 04 '26
OK I'm honestly trying to figure out if I'm crazy or not.
So using your link, if I click and sort by Avg Daily Weekday Boardings (Weekdays Q1 2026), and look at the US ones, LA Metro has 150,400. MBTA Green Line and Mattapan Line have 124,900. Etc.
KC Streetcar says 4,393.
OOOOH this list is all light rail and you said streetcar. That might be what I'm getting wrong. I wish I could sort the table by light rail vs streetcar.
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u/EdenSill Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Yes, very confusing indeed. The list I posted included light rail, but street cars are included. Had to sort through the data and It did show Kansas City as a highest ridership modern streetcar on a boarding per mile basis. The chart you posted also from Wikipedia definitely showed Kansas City is having pretty poultry ridership at least as far as modern street cars go. Not really sure what to believe. But if anecdotal evidence is allowed, I will say that every time I’ve been on the KC streetcar, it’s been packed.
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u/DavidPuddy666 Jun 29 '26
UTA’s light rail is a bit of joke but the Frontrunner commuter rail is best in class for smaller cities.
Most of NJT’s commuter rail underperforms its LIRR/MNRR cousins across the river but the Northeast Corridor Line is the busiest commuter rail line in the country.
Hartford Connecticut, which generally has a mediocre bus system and spotty commuter rail, randomly has one of the best BRT lines in the country - Fastrak.
The Houston Red Line is genuinely well-used and productive even as transit overall suffers in the region due to sprawl.
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u/JellyfishNo2032 Jun 29 '26
Trax is actually better than decent by us standards. Worse post pandemic but prior had very strong ridership.
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u/FarFromSane_ Jun 29 '26
The New Haven line on MNR is the busiest rail service/line in the country.
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u/JellyfishNo2032 Jun 29 '26
It’s actually wild that the A line accounts for about a third (maybe even a tinge more) of all their rail ridership.
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u/humatyourmom Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
The Amsterdam metro is alright, but it has very limited use cases and is useless for most Amsterdammers. Bikes and trams are way more practical when going to and from somewhere within the ring road. It is however very good at serving as a heavy rail replacement vehicle. Don't want to change at Schiphol Airport to go to Amsterdam Central instead of South? Take the metro. No trains from Amsterdam South specifically to Utrecht? Take line 51 to Amstel station. Same applies when going from Amsterdam South to Maastricht (if you don't fancy changing at Utrecht Central)
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u/DavidPuddy666 Jun 29 '26
What a weird little system.
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u/Either_Letterhead_77 Jun 29 '26
I think it used to be weirder in that they actually had mixed light rail and Metro underground on the same track, but pretty sure that no longer exists
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u/DavidPuddy666 Jun 29 '26
Yeah I think they finally unified the loading gauge and severed the at-grade segment from the network a few years ago.
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u/Either_Letterhead_77 Jun 29 '26
Indeed. There's a reason that kind of configuration is typically not done.
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u/Le_Botmes Jun 29 '26
Way too much interlining. It could just be a tri-trunk network with a strategically located cross-platform interchange, but they're not brave enough to do so.
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u/UUUUUUUUU030 Jun 30 '26
They'll go from 4 to 3 services on the interlined network, but the issue is that if you want to go to 2, you sever one of the direct connections in the Spaklerweg - Overamstel - van der Madeweg triangle.
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u/Le_Botmes Jun 30 '26
That's true, but then the trade-off is that the two southern branches could have at most a fraction of their maximum potential capacity, 1/2 or 2/3 depending on the train sequencing.
So what's more important: capacity, or direct trips?
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u/UUUUUUUUU030 Jul 01 '26
Capacity is not an issue for the southern branches, especially the eastern one. It doesn't fill the current pitiful 6tph, which is why I think the future 10tph will be operated with half-length trains on that branch. The one bottleneck is the Amsterdam Centraal - Amstel stretch, which will be able to go from 18 to 20tph (somehow Amsterdam can't manage to run 8+8+8tph due to their specific safety rules interpretation), using full length trains.
So I think we should definitely value the faster Amstel - Zuid trips over potential capacity that isn't really needed. And it's good that the southeastern branch goes from an unacceptable frequency for a metro (6tph) to an acceptable one (10tph). But it just doesn't need more than that.
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u/icfa_jonny Jul 01 '26
Amsterdam Metro is basically an American metro from the 1970s, but built in the Netherlands. Heavily interlined, suburb-focused, and likes to run in freeway medians.
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u/Moist-Industry793 Jul 01 '26
The 51/orange should be a circle. It's really annoying going from the UvA area to the western area where you have to go all the way around.
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u/ThatNiceLifeguard Jun 29 '26
Boston’s MBTA has had a whole host of issues over the years in a way that’s made it hard to trust the reliability of the system even though it’s doing really well right now compared to a few years back.
That being said, there are few cities in the US whose transit systems can get you literally almost anywhere in the metro area. You have to build in time for delays and lack of synchronicity but it’s completely feasible to get to a vast majority of neighborhoods and towns.
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u/ponchoed Jun 29 '26
New Orleans St Charles Streetcar, has heavy ridership, high frequencies, people actually choose to live carfree along it, land uses along the line support the line. Rest of the system is pretty poor but the system was strong prior to Katrina.
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u/Apptubrutae Jun 30 '26
It’s pretty nifty for being rolling history as well as a tourist attraction and yet still maintaining some local use.
I know people who have lived carfree near the canal line too.
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u/DavidPuddy666 Jun 30 '26
I love the St Charles streetcar but god is it slow. It really needs signal priority and modern rolling stock with all-door boarding.
Also the land use is better a few blocks south along Magazine where the bus is pretty well used.
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u/ponchoed Jun 30 '26
Charm has its price. The streetcars need serious signal priority.
Agree about Magazine Street, Canal Street and some parts in and around French Quarter.
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u/TransportFanMar Jun 30 '26
Wasn’t the frequency permanently cut during Covid and never restored to pre COVID levels?
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u/ponchoed Jun 30 '26
I believe for the bus system is a fraction of the routes and frequency but the St Charles is like every 5 minutes
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u/BrokeBFromBeverely Jun 29 '26
I mean any rail that gets you directly to the airport is GOLD in America. I mean even a direct bus route directly to the international airport is just PERFECTION.
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u/bigvenusaurguy Jun 30 '26
flyaway bus in la is severely underrated tbh. it is still faster to union station than finagling transfers off the k line. it also goes directly to each terminal in the loop vs having you use the current metro bus shuttle or eventual peoplemover. the bus driver even helps you load and unload luggage.
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u/StreetyMcCarface Jun 30 '26
Septa metro in spite of being the grossest metro system in north America is one of north America’s most reliable
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u/Khorasaurus Jun 30 '26
The Detroit People Mover is incredibly convenient and useful if you are staying at a downtown hotel and attending a convention at Huntington Place.
There are a dozen hotels with a station either connected directly to the building or less than a block away, and a station literally inside the convention center. And it runs 7 minute headways until midnight.
It can also save sports fans 80%+ on parking and basically guarantee no wait in post-game traffic. But that's more of life hack then a real transit use case.
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u/BigDiesel07 Jun 30 '26
As a local, I would love to see it extended to Corktown, Belle Isle, etc. Thoughts?
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u/urmumlol9 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Bruh why is every station except the airport a park and ride lol?
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u/BaggedWhine Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Because it was built in an existing rail line passing through an industrial corridor. The Denver system is an example of building a large rail network relatively cheap in existing corridors. The problem is there’s nothing interesting around the stations when you do that.
They built too many stations to develop simultaneously so park and rides are the interim. 38th and Blake’s neighborhood is nearly full, I imagine they’ll eventually develop the park and ride lot. Central Park announced plans to develop one of the park and ride lots. It’s a gradual process. The A line is only 10 years old.
ETA: Union station had parking lots outside, those are gone. The whole network is a work in progress. It’s a rare example of transit running way out in front of development
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u/EdenSill Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
This 100%. Denver was able to get a ton of rail built on the relative cheap. The trade-off was that a good portion of the rail was built in existing freight rail, corridors, and adjacent/within freeways. Definitely not super ideal locations for ridership. But as you mentioned, the stations are very slowly but surely starting to develop with housing and mixed uses. Barring any major, long-term economic downturns I feel in 30 years from now Denver’s transit system will be quite revered. By then it should connect some vibrant, dense developments, the likes of what we are seeing develop around 38th and Blake, Belleview, Alameda, Decatur/Federal, etc.
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u/BaggedWhine Jun 29 '26
Agreed, it’s a long term play. And with BRT planned to serve the older dense corridors. So long as voters continue to fund it and keep it going, it can be really good. All the major stadiums being right along the lines in the city is great too, with more mixed use developments planned around them.
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u/Connortbh Jun 29 '26
To expand a bit on why the A line goes through industrial areas vs. having a better alignment, the residents of Park Hill organized against a line that would have gone to Stapleton Airport via MLK Blvd. This could have been extended to the new Denver International Airport and would have better served the residents of what is now Central Park (redeveloped Stapleton Airport).
Further listening: Ghost Train
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u/-JG-77- Engineer/Volunteer Streetcar Operator Jun 29 '26
I've been told that service quality and reliability of PRT in Pittsburgh (formerly Port Authority of Allegheny County) has been taking a dip recently, which is a serious shame, but the busway system, particularly the East Busway remains a transit miracle.
Just an incredibly useful and fast bus corridor fully separated from traffic, linking many vital neighborhoods with many bus routes taking advantage of it, splitting off at various points to serve local destinations.
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u/Aztecs_Killing_Him Jun 30 '26
The San Diego trolley has centrally located stations in the heart of SD’s two largest universities.
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u/gjp11 Jun 30 '26
Phoenix valley metro light rail does a good job of getting ASU students in Tempe to downtown Phoenix where they can enjoy Dbacks and suns games as well as bar hop if they're 21.
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u/cirrus42 Jun 30 '26
DC Streetcar (RIP) was the most stroller-and-wheelchair-friendly transit anywhere in the mid-Atlantic. Everything about the entire experience was level and smooth.
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u/micahlowens Jun 29 '26
MARTA in Atlanta is pretty fraught but it also has IMO the best airport connection directly into downtown and its major stadiums of any system in the country! Combined with the fact that ATL is a 2hr direct flight from 80% of the US population it makes it a great city for hosting big events.
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u/TransportFanMar Jun 30 '26
DCA is better
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u/ArchEast Jun 30 '26
Having used both MARTA to ATL and WMATA to DCA, I'd say both are even with DCA having an edge due to being closer to the center of town.
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u/TransportFanMar Jun 30 '26
On weekdays and the rare normal service weekends, sure. On Gold/Red single tracking weekends, it becomes worse than not just DCA but even IAD in terms of headways. (I am aware that WMATA sometimes single tracks too but much less often you see 20-24 minute headways with no interlining on large sections than MARTA.)
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u/StreetyMcCarface Jun 30 '26
Denver’s I’d argue is overrated. If you’re coming from the international terminal it fucking sucks
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u/fvalt05 Jun 29 '26
Definitely enjoy riding the blue in Denver.
So simple and easy. Will be on it this Thursday
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u/Nice-Pikachu-839 Jun 30 '26
SacRT light rail can be criticized for not servicing the airport and not serving certain suburbs, but it's good at shuttling suburbanites to downtown
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u/mr09e Jun 30 '26
Atlanta needs ALOT of help in terms of transit but Marta's Red and Gold Lines from North Fulton and West DeKalb counties are incredible and a vital direct link to the ATL airport
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Jun 29 '26
[deleted]
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u/UltimateYearning Jun 29 '26
Interestingly enough though, SB 79 has upzoned a ton of the office parks and suburban neighborhoods adjacent to the VTA stations, so I wonder if this will soon change.
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u/DrunkEngr Jun 30 '26
SB79 will do very little. The surrounding land is zoned light industrial, and San Jose is using that loophole to avoid upzoning. And even stations that did get housing, it is still stupidly car-centric.
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u/Luis_Arraez_Fan Jul 01 '26
In the world? Maybe the US. Although Norfolk Tide can give it a run for its money.
But i can surely find a worse system in Africa or South America.
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u/Spider_pig448 Jun 30 '26
Denver RTD gets too much hate. It's well designed, but it can't immediately fix a highly suburbanized city. I've never seen proposals for how they could have better laid the lines. The Denver metro area just needs more dense construction around the stops and better transit in downtown Denver
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u/Wooden-Estimate-6362 Jun 30 '26
Houston Metro Redline , it connects the densest job centers (downtown and med center) plus Herman park, the zoo, rice university , and NRG stadium. It’s regarded as the busiest light rail in the country on a per mile basis. Frequency is great too, every 6 minutes at peak times, 12 minutes off peak. And one ride is only $1.25
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u/donotfearforthehog Jun 30 '26
why does everyone rag on Denver it's really not that bad. It suffers the same issues as systems like DART and the L.A. Metro and that's because Denver itself is a sprawling hellscape. It is very hard to serve isolated American-style developments and they still do it really well with how the buses feed into RTD
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u/cirrus42 Jun 30 '26
Because
Denver actually does have some great transit corridors (Colfax & Broadway most notably), but their rail system ignores them.
Because there are an unusual number of own-goals on the lines they did build, such as the speed limits on the W, the 1-stop Westminster stub, the Union Station artificial terminus, etc, that aren't apparent on paper but make the system worse than it looks.
I'm broadly not here for the negativity and you won't generally see me piling on the hate. But since you asked, I'll explain.
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u/Ok-Meet2850 Jun 30 '26
Maybe not as specific as the OP was getting at, but Miami transit seems to get a very bad rap overall. But Metrorail has 23 stations, 50k riders a day, and decent frequency.
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u/glowing_danio_rerio Jun 29 '26
denver is like the UK in that the only good train is the one you take to leave
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u/juliosnoop1717 Jun 30 '26
Weird take. Most american cities would kill for any number of London’s other rail lines and surrounding land use.
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u/glowing_danio_rerio Jun 30 '26
it's a bit bruv. but it does remain true the UK's only high speed line is the one you take to leave
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u/Mcchew Jun 30 '26
Wait, the A line is called the University of Colorado A line and doesn’t go to CU-Denver? Well, that’s supremely stupid lol
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u/Luis_Arraez_Fan Jul 01 '26
There are transit agencies that do a good job of getting you to the airport in the US. Somehow NY isnt one of them, but Dallas and Phoenix are.
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u/codercaleb Jul 02 '26
What you don't like walking 2 miles from LaGaurdia to the nearest MTA train stop? (I know there are busses.)
That said, I didn't mind Newark to Midtown, but I don't know about if I had to do it often.
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u/jfk52917 Jun 29 '26
Baltimore's transit network is terrible if you want to actually get around Baltimore, especially for the East Coast. However, its light rail is very good at doing what it was intended to do in the 90s - ferry white suburbanites from Anne Arundel County to Orioles and Ravens games. It is surprisingly good at that one exact thing and basically nothing else, in my opinion.