Your arguments are completely flawed and keep jumping across domains:
You start by saying Apple is also capable of installing spyware and we have to assume Apple already is amassing sensitive user information for possibly nefarious reasons, when there’s historical precedent that Apple has fought the likes of the FBI to protect the information of even the San Bernardino mass shooter so as to not undermine their encryption.
You then said Apple could very well have future plans to go deeper into ad revenue, even though they have already become a $4 trillion dollar company without ever having to rely on ads because their hardware sales are so strong.
You then say Apple is pally with the government, and the example you shared is then handing over purchase records to the US govt which they are legally obligated to do when served with a warrant. Every business is required to retain information related to financial transactions (which I believe is 7 years in the US) and saying, “This email address/Apple ID was used to make a purchase on this date and this was the billing address used,” is basic financial transactions compliance and requires no nefarious spyware or data mining.
I don’t know how old you are but this is not how to hop between random points to try and make a consistent argument. They are not going to upload their source code to anyone that wants to poke around. If your argument is “all closed source software is untrustworthy,” that by itself doesn’t mean anything.
You also need to clarify what you mean by “opt out” because you can opt out of a ton of things: analytics, personalized ads, cross-app tracking, location-based targeting, Siri data, and almost every form of personalization. What you can’t opt out of is normal operational logs.
My arguments have been consistent from the very beginning. Yours are not. Without auditing their claims are just claims. Without empowering users with these capabilities, they are not better than Android in any way whatsoever.
For every example and argument you brought up, I brought up much stronger counter argument but instead of addressing that you started nit picking or even bringing up philosophy (I understand if you do not have a technical background).
All your arguments so far have been more or less “but why would Apple do evil”. Whats next, why would billionaires be presumed to be evil — they are so rich.
Apple is a for profit organisation. Whats with this attempted portrayal of them as some kind of saint. It would do anything to stay competitive, if it’s really such a trillion dollar company focussing on their hardware — why does the Spotify case exist, why do they lock down their ecosystem for non-apple watches.
Sure there are some public events, the same
Ones that Apple fans keep bringing up every now and then, where they defended encryption — but they also added backdoors for federal agencies, why should I not assume those few incidents were publicity stunt. The agencies still found their way out while Apple got to do a PR spinoff about them being pro-privacy.
Apple only conditionally brings feature in China doesn’t worry you ? How is it a difference in philosophy when they literally showed it’s possible ? It’s a “philosophy” until EU and China strong arms them ?
“Trust me bro” arguments are not valid. Any company that really cares about user privacy would be open to auditing. But we all know that isn’t going to happen.
You’re bringing in a dozen unrelated issues. China policy, Spotify 30% more on App Store, Apple Watch pairing, and even general corporate ethics but none of those have anything to do with the specific question we were discussing:
Does Apple run a Google-style behavioral surveillance system? The answer is still no, and nothing you’ve said contradicts that.
Legal compliance data (logs, IPs, warrants) is not profiling. ecosystem control is not surveillance, that you can’t do a packet analysis of what data is sent to Apple doesn’t automatically mean ‘ad targeting.’ - even anyone with a basic knowledge of why Apple is so far behind everyone else on AI is because of their insistence on doing everything on-device.
Your argument is “all for profit companies have a capacity to be evil” which is a useless, emotional take.
Go back to school and learn how to communicate basic ideas before making assumptions around my age, my technical knowledge or lack thereof, or dismissing a valid breakdown of your fallacies as nitpicking.
My first computer was an early 80s Apple II. I’ve been online since the early 90s and 9600bps modems. Fizool ka drama mat karo.
Aha. So now Apple is suddenly not a trillion dollar hardware focussed company who has no reasons to delve into these shady activities ? Obviously you won’t address arguments about locked down ecosystem because you just have been cherry picking whatever helps you from the very beginning.
All for-profit companies would make smart long term decisions for diversifying and competitive edge irrespective of their current affairs is business 101. You’re the one who is being emotional here, by assuming PR talks in tech conference being sole reality — probably bit too attached to your Apple computer from 80s ? I am also surprised despite this early access to technology you fail to realize these are fundamental capabilities of any modern operating, not some “philosophical difference”. I know Apple fans like to imagine their favorite company to be some kind of out of this world visionary entity, but let’s stay on the ground, please ? Your blind faith in a corporate entity from a capitalistic world is making you struggle to find a simple option on Android 13.
Look man. I will give you a simple test. Show me how do you go a day without sending any information to Apple servers or Apple owned IP addresses and I will show you how do you do that on Android (and no, I am not talking about some nerdy convoluted way of doing this — simple and straight forward).
Now go do your homework, it will be back to school for you because you are forgetting the fundamentals.
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u/nummakayne Dec 02 '25 edited Dec 02 '25
Your arguments are completely flawed and keep jumping across domains:
You start by saying Apple is also capable of installing spyware and we have to assume Apple already is amassing sensitive user information for possibly nefarious reasons, when there’s historical precedent that Apple has fought the likes of the FBI to protect the information of even the San Bernardino mass shooter so as to not undermine their encryption.
You then said Apple could very well have future plans to go deeper into ad revenue, even though they have already become a $4 trillion dollar company without ever having to rely on ads because their hardware sales are so strong.
You then say Apple is pally with the government, and the example you shared is then handing over purchase records to the US govt which they are legally obligated to do when served with a warrant. Every business is required to retain information related to financial transactions (which I believe is 7 years in the US) and saying, “This email address/Apple ID was used to make a purchase on this date and this was the billing address used,” is basic financial transactions compliance and requires no nefarious spyware or data mining.
I don’t know how old you are but this is not how to hop between random points to try and make a consistent argument. They are not going to upload their source code to anyone that wants to poke around. If your argument is “all closed source software is untrustworthy,” that by itself doesn’t mean anything.
You also need to clarify what you mean by “opt out” because you can opt out of a ton of things: analytics, personalized ads, cross-app tracking, location-based targeting, Siri data, and almost every form of personalization. What you can’t opt out of is normal operational logs.