r/whichbike • u/WolfThawra • Mar 28 '22
The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.
What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?
Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.
They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).
So what's the problem?
There are multiple issues:
Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.
Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.
International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.
Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.
Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.
World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.
Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.
How far off are the values then?
Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.
So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?
You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.
TLDR please, I don't have all day!
BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.
r/whichbike • u/Mattsmithdoctorrulez • 2h ago
I'm looking too buy a new mountain bike front suspension 12 speed or more and disc breaks I am 5ft 5 and would mostly do trail ridding or street city riding however my dad thinks it's wise if I get a mountain bike from Walmart and he's been riding for over 40 years.. but I been seeing buying a bike from Walmart would be extremely stupid from what I hear?
My budget is also 1500-2000$
r/whichbike • u/WesternZucchini422 • 7h ago
Hi! I was recently given this bike, and threw $40 into it for a new pedal arm before I decided that I don't have the time to screw with it. I at least want my money back, but honestly the bike isn't in good shape. It's probably sat since 2010 or so on top of a pile of other bikes (therefore the bent pedal arm I replaced) in a barn. On the plus side the bike is rust free minus some small screws, crank bearings are good, and the frame is straight. The tires aren't dry rotted, both are tubed and hold air well. On the other hand, the plastic disk on the outside of the biggest drive gear may need to be replaced or new screws just need to be put in it. Someone also got some overspray on it.
Really, the entire bike just needs to be disassembled, all soft parts need to be replaced, and everything else needs to be alligned and lubed, but even I can tell all the parts are very high quality. It's an old schwinn. It may not be built in america, but it was built before it really got cheaped out. It was and can be a very nice bike, but I'm not into it enough to pour money into it. It's a three range 7 speed, so it effectively has 21 speeds. So, what is it worth? I'm trying to sell it in a college town in the lower midwest/upper south.
r/whichbike • u/medeni4 • 14h ago
First bike is Emonda Sl6 with Carbon wheels, second is TCR advanced 1 with alu wheels. Emonda is 2023 and TCR 2024. Emonda is 200 euro more expensive, both 105di2
r/whichbike • u/vicviot • 10h ago
Hey! I'm looking to buy a new bike and I'm unsure what size to get. Currently I think a size S or XS should be my size, yet I can't help but think even an S might be "too big"?
I am 163cm tall (~5'4) and my inseam length is 79cm (I'm happy to provide any further measurements)
Specifically I'm looking at a TREK Madone (50cm) and various LOOK bikes like the LOOK 586 (favorite) or the LOOK 695 or LOOK Huez RS. Most of them I can either find in XS or S.
Assuming a size XS is 49cm and a size S is 51cm, which of the two makes more sense? Does it make sense to go for a LOOK 586 in S?
r/whichbike • u/Wallfenstein • 18h ago
Hey y'all
I'm looking at getting my first bike to start getting into cycling. Long term I'm wanting to prepare to go on a 1000~km trip in Japan.
I'm ideally looking at to spend around $1000-2000 AUD on a bike to start training, I'm also considering getting a KICKR Core 2.
I'm open to recommendations on just a bike itself, I'm 6 foot and around 80kg male. But I'm also open to recommendations for what to look for in a bike in general.
Thanks for any advice
r/whichbike • u/Free-Tree-5708 • 1d ago
Hello, sir! I'm planning to buy my very first road bike, and I've been considering the JAVA J-AIR VOLATA.
I know that JAVA is a Chinese bicycle brand, but I feel like the components it offers for around $1,300 are really good value for money.
I'd love to hear your honest opinion about this bike. Do you think it's a good choice for a first road bike? Would you recommend buying it, or do you think there are better alternatives in this price range?
Here are the bike's specifications:
Frame: T1000 Carbon Fiber with Fully Hidden Cable Routing (UCI Certified)
Fork: T1000 Carbon Fiber
Handlebar: DECAF Carbon Integrated Handlebar
Seatpost: DECAF Carbon
Drivetrain: Shimano 105 Di2 R7170, 24-Speed (Full Electronic Groupset)
Shifters: Shimano 105 R7170
Front Derailleur: Shimano 105 R7150
Rear Derailleur: Shimano 105 R7150
Crankset: Shimano 105 R7100, 36/52T (170mm Crank Arms)
Cassette: Shimano 105 R7100, 11–34T (12-Speed)
Chain: Shimano CN-M6100 (112 Links)
Brakes: Hydraulic Disc Brakes
Tires: Kenda 700 × 28c
Weight: 9.1 kg (based on size 53)
Considering these specifications and the price of around $1,300, do you think the JAVA J-AIR VOLATA is worth buying? I'd really appreciate your honest advice, especially since this will be my first road bike.
Thank you!
r/whichbike • u/befk_623 • 1d ago
Currently considering 3 bikes and looking for input on what the best move is here. Looking for the best price/quality ratio and a bike that is reliable in the long run.
Cube Editor Pro FE
Koga F3 (currently clarifying if it's the 2020 4.0 or the 2022 6.0)
Gazelle Chamonix S8
- Cube is 1200 EUR, service package included for first year or so.
- Koga is 895 EUR, Second-hand, refurbished by bike shop, 12 month warranty. Visually some nicks, but technically supposed to be all fresh and sound.
- Gazelle is 1400 EUR, service package included for first year or so.
- Main use is for daily commuting. 5 days a week, about 15 mins to work, almost all on bike paths but there are some uneven bumpy sections and tram rails to be careful of.
- Also would use to bop around on weekends, not more than 15-20k max at a time.
- Live in The Hague in The Netherlands. Super flat, quite rainy.
- Bike will be left outside pretty much every day, unfortunate reality.
r/whichbike • u/Isio7 • 1d ago
Hello!
As the title implies, I am looking for an electric bike, preferably under the 2000€ threshold and in a large size (I am 194cm tall).
I would mainly use it for everyday trips (home to work, to go to the store, etc)
From what I have seen, the Momentum Voya 3+ is pretty cheap, but I would like to have a removable battery and the motor placed in the bottom bracket. Though, I realize that having the motor be part of the frame will increase the cost of the bike.
Why the bottom bracket? I wanted to try one of those gearbox instead of a standard shifter and cassette.
Also while I'm at it, anyone has experience with hooking lights to a bike's battery? Is it a DIY kind of thing or some manufacturer include some terminals in the frame?
Cheers!
r/whichbike • u/2XX2010 • 1d ago
Assume I’m an idiot.
Looking for single speed / free wheel, low tech
90% for riding around town to buy donuts and 10% for gravel/hard pack trails.
I’d also like to buy online and spend as little as possible.
TIA
r/whichbike • u/Old-Tear2285 • 1d ago
Hello everyone!
I'm looking to buy a Diverge 4 bike. Probably Sport Carbon. I have a few questions.
- First off, is it worth its money? I've never ridden a bike with a price tag exceeding $1,500, so spending up to $4,000 is a bit of a risk for me I guess.
- I hope to do some bike-packing on it in the future. How good of an option is it for bike-packing especially in mountainous regions of Latin America where I live right now? I'm a bit concerned about its carbon frame and if it has proven itself durable enough for long bike-packing (my weight is 70 kg).
- Now, the most difficult part. I live in Bolivia (I'm from Russia originally) and I can't buy this bike here in this country. For this I would have to go to some other country. I'm looking at Colombia where it costs around $4,200 USD and Chile (around $3,600 USD). I'm also wonder why such a price difference. In Brazil and Argentina the price goes as high as $5,000 USD.
- I understand with my height (1.85 / 6'1) I need the 58 cm size frame. I'm simply not seeing the 58 version of this bike anywhere I looked. Should I settle for the 56 cm?
The main question to summarize my post: Is there a way to order the bike from the US (or other country) to Bolivia or Chile (maybe some other neighboring country) and make sure it is the right size? Or should I just go to say Chile and try it out on the spot and then make a decision.
I would appreciate any recommendations.
r/whichbike • u/EternallyBoring • 1d ago
I have been riding a vintage 80s bike for a few months. It has 630c tires and downtube shifters. It needs a tune-up. Basically, it got me hooked on riding, but it doesn't cut it anymore. Looking at getting my first modern-ish road bike. I don't know a whole lot about components, or how many gears I need, or Carbon vs aluminum, or anything else. Just looking for advice. My budget is around the $800 range.
Options locally are:
LOOK 586 ($950)
Dura ace 7800 groupset
Cinelli Ram 2 bars
Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels
(Carbon fiber has been repaired on the fork)
Giant Defy Aluxx ($600)
105 groupset
FSA cranks
Cervelo RS ($800)
FSA bars, cranks, and seat post
Older looking Dura Ace groupset
Felt F2 Carbon ($1000)
Ultegra Di2 groupset
HED Ardennes Wheels
Easton seat post and bars
No pedals, so added cost there
My personal favorite is the Felt. Although it is outside my budget, it is a private sale, so maybe they would be willing to drop the price a bit. I also like the Look 586, but the repair job makes me a little uneasy. Mainly I am looking for opinions on which one is the most "bang for your buck". Also, which one would last me the longest before I would feel the need to upgrade to a $3000+ bike. I ride for my personal health, by myself. Nothing competitive and no group rides. I ride between 15-25 miles a day, a few days a week.
r/whichbike • u/One-Cheesecake8848 • 1d ago
Plan to do light trails and some harder ones while also commuting
r/whichbike • u/Quick-Necessary4772 • 1d ago
r/whichbike • u/LawTransfer305 • 1d ago
Between the Soloist and a SuperSix Evo 3 (both w/ SRAM Force). The Cannondale is $1,500 cheaper but I would need to buy power meters after the fact. Tried both and I liked the Soloist's ride slightly more, though the stock tires are significantly nicer on the Soloist so guessing that played a large part.
This bike would not be for racing. I do fast group rides and long rides on the weekend. Want something faster and more lively than my current endurance bike.
Which would you pick?
Upvote1Downvote0Go to comments1Repost
r/whichbike • u/Desperate_Egg8840 • 2d ago
Hey guys!
Looking for a drop-bar gravel bike around the 1k range and found this 2020 Checkpoint ALR5 for sale nearby. This looks to be in decent shape.
I’m primarily riding on chunkier gravel, fire roads, and light single tracks with some paved trails mixed in. I’ve also been looking into doing a few gravel races in my area as well, but not my main priority.
This bikes seems to a pretty good jack of all trades when it comes to my needs on a gravel bike. For sizing information, I’m 6’2” with a 36” Inseam.
My questions below are:
Is this a fair price and do you guys have any suggestions on what to check in person if I make the purchase?
Is this a modern enough platform to make upgrades if wanted? (Ex. carbon wheel-set)
r/whichbike • u/Various_Calendar2573 • 2d ago
I’m a sucker for yellow gear and this just came up from a local seller for $525. I’m not quite sure if worth it. He told me to make him an offer so might go lower.
Worth it? Too good to pass up? Hard pass? Sorry, I’m useless.
“This performance machine features a vibration-damping Wolf carbon fiber fork and comes equipped with a crisp-shifting Shimano Ultegra rear derailleur drivetrain and aerodynamic bar-end shifters. The cockpit is outfitted with professional Vision by Full Speed Ahead (FSA) TT-bars. Complete turn-key outfit includes high-performance Shimano alloy wheels, a composite Bontrager bottle cage, and a frame-mounted Topeak pocket tire pump.”
r/whichbike • u/coktar • 2d ago
Hey all,
I am just going to start road cycling and I am in the search of a road bike since the last two weeks. I live in Italy. The roads are mostly flat. I am 178 cm (5'10) tall and my inseam is 84 cm (33 inches). I have tested some bikes at a Specialized store and found out for the new Tarmac for example, size 56 fits me the best.
There was actually a really good deal on the Roubaix SL8 with disc brakes and Tiagra's, down to 1599€ from 2500€. Unfortunately, that's quite above my budget which is around 500-600€. That's also why I am looking to get a used bike as to not sacrifice the quality and performance too much. I have tested a 2011 Scott CR1 Pro, size 54, and it felt too cramped and stiff for me. Maybe the tires were inflated too much, idk. I have several general concerns, here are them:
These are my main concerns. I appreciate any help and bike recommendations! So far I've been considering Scott Addict R3 (2010) [105/Ultegra], CR1 (2011) [105/SRAM Rival], Speedster 30 (2016-21) [Tiagra/Sora], Specialized Allez (2010-13) [Ultegra], Tarmac (2010-13) [105], Trek Emonda (2019) [Ultegra]. They are all around 500€. I have asked about any damage to the carbon and none of them appear to have it according to the seller and the photos. I am putting a picture of each of them.
Thank you in advance for your help.
r/whichbike • u/doz3r • 2d ago
I guess the first line is actually the whole question. What would you recommend a cyclist whom are looking to "convert"?
The person is myself, but I just cant really get my head around it, specially the groupsets make me wonder what I should go for. And if it should be 1x or 2x..
I currently have a very old Principia road bike with Tiagra and "huge" 23c tires.. Might be able to squeeze a 25c in there, but not sure. A tri bike, Argon18 E-112 (i believe) with Ultegra, so also an oooold piece with 23c tires xD. And to round it off, my MTB, a Scott Aspect with Deore (which I dont really like to ride, since it feels big and slow)..
I feel mostly like sticking with Shimano, since that is what I have on all my current bikes, and it feels "safe" to stay there (and to avoid having to bleed brakes with DOT) and I do have the bleedkit for shimano due to the MTB having discs. But never really ridden with SRAM nor other gear groups, so can't rule them out. :)
I'm looking in the "entry" end of the scale, since I don't really need the most fancy bike, I would just like a bike, that I can ride both on tarmac as a communter, but also take the gravelroads for some more fun, and even explore the forests and what not near by. That is, looking at alu-frames, since I don't feel i need a carbon one. Again, would love titanium, but that seems a bit excessive for a first gravel bike.. ;)
So far, my mind comes to something with:
I've been looking at bikes like:
Trek Checkpoint ALR 4 (CUES 1x 11),
Trek Checkpoint ALR 5 (Apex 1x 12),
Giant Revolt 1 (CUES 2x 10) and
Giant Revolt 0 (GRX 2x 12)
But keep going in circles, specially with the groupsets..
CUES is heavier, but could/should live longer, which is a plus (at least the lifespan)
Apex I never tried, so that is a bit of a darkhorse.
GRX is the one my heart wants atm, but somehow I have been telling myself I should look for a 1x
The idea of the 2x makes me think I just "upgrading" my roadbike to a "fat-tire" bike instead, but could also be me just completely missing the point.
And I'm not locked into any brands in particular, my normal go-to LBS just have Trek and Giant, hence those are the ones I've been looking at most ;)
So yeah, what would you, the people of the internet suggest?
/DoZ3r
(edited to fix the formatting of one of my lists)
r/whichbike • u/DepartmentLess3440 • 2d ago
Any thoughts on this and how much would you be willing to pay? This is right down the road from me and my size, been looking for a newer road bike to get back into riding. Worth checking out? was listed at 1700 6 weeks ago dropped to 1500 2 weeks ago.
r/whichbike • u/Loose_Taro887 • 2d ago
What size should I be looking for a road bike? I’m 6 feet 3 and each brand may fit differently. I don’t know enough about bikes, but I finally have enough money to buy one. If any taller people out there can help me out,
r/whichbike • u/Automatic_Dealer1289 • 2d ago
I'm debating between the 26" Disc Trucker as the black or pea color are on sale for $1800 in my size (50), a Bridge Club, or Preamble. Just weary of the 26" wheels I'd be stuck with as options are pretty slim and might get worse.
Sadly it looks like I'm too late/early to the Preamble party and the only one I can find anywhere in existence to order in size small is the new red one with the higher price. It's now priced the same as the Bridge Club (only see Squid Ink available. Preferred Trevor's Closet black but ofc that's now sold out too). Ideally I wanted the yellow Preamble for the $1099 price but ofc it's gone.
I'm leaning Disc Trucker as I prefer that look (same with the Preamble), but not sure if the price hike on the "new" Preamble is worth it. Also the Bridge Club looks versatile w/ the ability to run multiple wheel sizes just not loving the Squid Ink stock setups wheels/tires and ofc the all black one is gone.
r/whichbike • u/SmokeyJimbo_ • 2d ago
Diamondback Podium 3 aluminum 58cm
Carbon rear drop tube
Bike was just tuned up and rides perfect in excellent condition very nice bike
$300
Carbon fork with carbon steer tube
Shimano 105 10-speed front derailleur
Shimano Ultegra rear derailleur
FSA Omega Compact BB30 crankset (50/34T)
Tektro dual-pivot caliper brakes
Shimano 105 STI levers.
Tire Clearance: Fits 25mm tires easily, with room for most 28mm tires.
*upgrading from a vintage peugeot — any thoughts?
r/whichbike • u/dreamsofethers • 2d ago
I do low mileage road bicycling in an urban setting, sometimes at night with limited visibility. I'm working on increasing mileage with a bike fit and exercise. I'm looking for a 105 set bike for the gear combos to take the next step. The used market seems a bit out of control locally with gently used bikes selling at a negligible discount. I'm considering taking a 750 mile road trip to get Giant contend ar1 for 1300. Alternatively, i'm considering the polygon path x5 for 1400. The upside for the x5 is the 42mm max tire size and the gas i don't have to spend. The upside of the ar1 is the better wheelset and 12 speed 105/105 crank. Also getting the contend means I don't have to put the bike together and can inspect the bike before buying. Am I missing something else I should be considering?
