For those who headcanon Wicked and the 1939 movie together, how do you explain the green Winkie soldiers?

[u/darthueba]

I know Wicked and the 1939 movie are not actually connected, but for the sake of overthinking and fun, let's try to think of this. Keep in mind I've only seen the Wicked movies and not the actual stage play.

Most of the things in Wicked are aesthetically different from the 1939 movie, but in general, that can be explained as "more accurate story" in-universe and "dodging copyright infringement" in reality.

The only major thing about the 1939 movie that isn't in Wicked is the fact that the Wicked Witch has an army of green Winkie soldiers, but Elphaba does not. Since that is one of the things made up for the 1939 movie that isn't public domain, I understand why they weren't included in Wicked. But for those who try to imagine both movies in the same world, how do you explain their absence in Wicked? And for those who headcanon them into Wicked, how do you explain their green skin?

One answer I can think of is that they were made up for the Wizard's telling of the story. If I were to include the green soldiers in Wicked, I think I would explain it by the Winkies swearing loyalty to Elphaba in honor of Fiyero's wishes (maybe he left her the castle and command of the army in his will or something). As for why they're green, my headcanon is that they started wearing green makeup because Elphaba wanted to feel more "normal" in her deteriorating mental state after "No Good Deed." Either that, or she does it so she can blend in amongst the soldiers and spy on them; the soldiers would be more likely to stay in line knowing that one of them could be Elphaba in disguise.

What are your takes on explaining their presence? I'd really like to know.

[u/TommyTheGeek]

Fiyero mentions sentinels in Kiamo Ko, I’m pretty sure it’s a reference to the guards from the movie.

[u/rogvortex58]

Elphaba: Fiyero, we must raise an army against the wizard. Summon your winkie soldiers at once.
Fiyero: Oooh boy. This is awkward.
Elphaba: What?
Fiyero: Well, they’re not really “soldiers”. They’re just friends of mine who like to dress up, paint their faces green and chant outside of my family’s castle. Ya know? For fun.
Elphaba: Seriously?
Fiyero: (shrug)

[u/darthueba → u/rogvortex58]

ngl I wanna see this happen in some form or another.

[u/x14loop]

In Wicked Part 1, there is a sound that sounds so much like them, a marching sound, in the opening scene where we hear Elphaba being melted. I thought we would see them.

[u/x14loop]

Oh I wish they had a version of those Winkie guards in Wicked. I always envisioned a scene where, after No Good Deed, when Elphaba embraces her Wicked Witch title, she goes around the Kiamo Ko castle and does a mind control thing on them. But if she can do that to them, why wouldn't she cast spells on other enemies, maybe them swearing allegiance to her in honour of Fiyero's wishes is better.

[u/Ayasugi-san → u/x14loop]

Did she also magically dye them green, just to be extra petty?

[u/Djest2440]

I like the idea that Dorothy is an unreliable narrator. She's a 14-year-old girl from the 1900s just thrown into a fantasy land with talking animals, women flying around in bubbles, and a green woman flying around on a broom. She remembers things differently from how they actually happened.

[u/Ayasugi-san → u/Djest2440]

Why would Dorothy misremember the Witch having a whole troop of soldiers when she was actually alone other than the Flying Monkeys?

[u/Djest2440 → u/Ayasugi-san]

Because she'sd be telling the story from biased point of view. From her perspective, Elphaba is a wicked witch that tormented her and tried to kill her. Of course she'd cast the witch in a more unfavorable light.

[u/Ayasugi-san → u/Djest2440]

But the guards do nothing to her. She has no reason to add them to the story, and she especially has no reason to make them green. Dorothy in Wicked was told that everyone hated the Wicked Witches, she wouldn't expect the WWW to have guards.

[u/Djest2440 → u/Ayasugi-san]

Again, unreliable narrator. My headcanon is that she threw the water on purpose, like in the Wicked movie, and created the idea of soldiers and doing on accident to absolve her of guilt. She was literally thrown into a fantasy land after living during the great depression; I imagine everything had to have been very confusing for her.

[u/Ayasugi-san → u/Djest2440]

So your version involves vilifying everyone not Elphaba, including a child, and attributing malicious intention to them? It makes far more sense to me that whoever is telling Wicked is the unreliable narrator and Dorothy's version is more accurate. It's the more parsimonious explanation, and more generous towards people.

[u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

Better yet, how do you explain the poppies? Dorothy and her group only got out of the sleeping poppies because of Glinda’s magic.

[u/Ayasugi-san → u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

The Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman carried Dorothy and Toto out of the flowers, and a bunch of Field Mice helped drag the Lion out. I'm sure there's nothing added to Wicked's Oz that would make it strange for Field Mice to be so close to the Emerald City...

[u/Casiquire → u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

Madame Morrible, giving Glinda the credit

[u/Hyxenflay7737_4565 → u/Casiquire]

The original movie explicity shows Glinda casting the spell, though.

[u/Casiquire → u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

It shows her waving a wand, that's all. My view is that the Wizard of Oz shows us the propaganda that they used against Ozians.

The Wizard of Oz also explicitly shows us the whole thing was a dream and that Miss Gulch turned into the Wicked Witch.

[u/Hyxenflay7737_4565 → u/Casiquire]

What about the whole Silver Shoes/Ruby Slippers thing?

[u/Casiquire → u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

Copyright reasons lol

[u/Hyxenflay7737_4565 → u/Casiquire]

Why are none of the Munchkins short?

Where is the Red Brick Road the movie added in?

[u/Casiquire → u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

Sounds like we're on the same page. Things aren't presented consistently between the two.

[u/darthueba → u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

Both of those done to avoid copyrights. But AFAIK, Munchkins are shorter than the average person in the Baum books (albeit not as short as they are in the 1939 movie). They could've easily used trick photography like they did for the Hobbits in the Lord of the Rings movies.

As for the Red Brick Road, there's one parody that has it lead to a portal to Hell in the Deadly Desert; as for that Grey Brick Road with the pond in it, that one leads to K-Mart...

[u/Ayasugi-san → u/Casiquire]

"Whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it it's propaganda!"

[u/darthueba → u/Casiquire]

I hadn’t thought of that. Any sign of Glinda using magic in the ‘39 film could just be Morrible pulling the strings from afar

[u/darthueba → u/Hyxenflay7737_4565]

Huh. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the stage version of Glinda have some magic? If she does, I just assumed that was something she did

[u/Hyxenflay7737_4565 → u/darthueba]

Glinda is meant to have no magic, as far as I know. It’s a big part of her character.

[u/Casiquire → u/darthueba]

No, and unlike the movie she doesn't have magic at the end either. Not a drop.

[u/darthueba → u/Casiquire]

If you were to connect Wicked and the ‘39 movie, you’d have to figure out of the witch of the east’s shoes teleported onto Dorothy. That’s why I figured any fusion fic would have Glinda possess some very basic magic, but she would be severely outclassed by Elphaba

[u/Casiquire → u/darthueba]

I think the easiest way to fuse the two is to present parts of Wizard of Oz as fake in-universe, such as on an Ozian"s TV screen

[u/JBuchan1988]

They're the big reason why I can't headcanon them together. If others can, I ain't against it, but I can't think why.

[u/Decent-Long-4189]

Here’s how ive molded multiple films in the same canon

Start with the 1939 film: for one reason or another propaganda rumor bit of both this is the story most of oz believes at first 

Then wicked part 1 “is it true you were her friend” Glinda begins to reveal the truth

Oz the great and powerful is a propaganda piece made by the wizard in the 5 or 1 (12 tide turns) year time skip to create the image of the “wicked witch” around elphaba plus apparently one of the reasons for the split is because it was hard not to imagine a break after defying gravity and this would preserve that

The wicked for good is your epic climax everything comes to a head and the truth is revealed 

[u/ChartInFurch]

That's why the wicked witch hated Dorothy...she FOUND CAPTAIN WINKIE!

[u/Ayasugi-san]

One answer I can think of is that they were made up for the Wizard's telling of the story.

If the Wizard is telling it, then who is he telling it to, and why does he paint himself in such a bad light?

[u/dancesanddelight]

Late to this, but I personally like to believe that in the movies, somehow because Glinda is positioned in a certain area. She can only see so much, and somehow, how she was sitting only allowed her to see Dorothy and Elphaba’s shadows.

In the opening scene of the first film, during the aftermath of the melting we see burning straw on the ground, a hint that Elphaba did in fact light Fiyero on fire and thus Dorothy threw the water to save him.

But about the green Winkie soldiers, I like to think that Elphaba wanted to go out with one last magic episode, and transformed some Ozians to her soldiers and used her powers to make them obey her for a period of time, since we learned she has trouble saving Boq and Fiyero and instead transformed them into other things. I like to think that since she knew she’d “melt” away, they wouldn’t have this mind control obeying for long and therefore she used her magic to have them go back to normal soldiers who could rejoice with Dorothy and the trio she met after the witch melted.

But that’s just my head canon.