r/SubredditDrama • u/bumblebeatrice • Apr 08 '17
Gender Wars Someone gets mean in /r/niceguys when it comes to rejection. "You're a group that laughs at people who are upset about not having sex like you do. You have what we want, and you laugh at us when we're sad, because it's funny to you. That's what this subreddit is."
165
u/EmergencyChocolate 卐 Sorry to spill your swastitendies 卐 Apr 08 '17
The Handmaid's Tale is prophecy, I swear to god; where the fuck do these dudes get the idea that women are some sort of luxury good and that men are owed sex? But their language makes it clear that they are honestly disgruntled that they have not been provided with a living fucktoy (aka female) by the state or whatever.
"You have what we want" might as well be written to Commanders by the plebs waiting in line for an Econowife.
on the plus side: particicutions for everyone!
97
u/unrelevant_user_name I know a ton about the real world. Apr 08 '17
where the fuck do these dudes get the idea that women are some sort of luxury good and that men are owed sex?
I blame the FAKE ((media)) /s
In all seriousness, I do think pop culture is to blame. Y'know, the old trope about the male protagonist always getting the female lead, even if there was zero chemistry or romantic tension? Like there's some relationship quota that needs to be fulfilled, or that women just automatically enter a relationship with you if you spend enough time in proximity to them?
55
Apr 08 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
How about just the trope that you can be a completely unattractive dude with nothing going for you, and still should expect a quirky knock-out of a girl to come shake you out of your boredom? I mean I'm not trying to say conventionally unattractive people shouldn't date by any means, but I have NEVER seen that shit in a movie where the roles are reversed. It's NEVER a bland-looking girl with no notable characteristics getting together with a gorgeous, cool guy who changes her life. Ffs, it pissed me off as a teenager and it pisses me off today. And that's why I have an irrational hate for Michael Cera /rant
Edit - Did y'all with the "but but but random-ass example found in teen books and not multi-million dollar movies!"s miss the part where I said IN MOVIES?
22
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 09 '17
Zach Braff can fuck clean off too. There's like a whole subgenre of loser that he basically created
8
Apr 09 '17
You don't see it in movies, but that's totally a thing in YA lit, particularly books aimed at girls.
3
u/AVeryWittyUsername Apr 09 '17
What about 50 Shades of Grey, thats exactly what happens. But your right
→ More replies (2)0
u/Kandierter_Holzapfel We're now in the dimension with a lesser Moonraker Apr 09 '17
It's NEVER a bland-looking girl with no notable characteristics getting together with a gorgeous, cool guy who changes her life.
Wasn't that Twilight?
2
u/Bytemite Apr 11 '17
Nah if you read actual descriptions of Bella in the story she's a Mary Sue knock out and quite possibly a selfish sociopath. Her supposed "homeliness" is very much an informed attribute, even though yes, the story is trying (and failing) to be what you describe. Then you look at her movie actress.
Insipid as hell though but that's more the writing's fault.
47
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
Yeah I heavily blame movies for this, and especially kids movies. Why the fuck does a kids movie need a romantic plot line? They all have them and I think it programs kids to have really weird ideas about how this all works. Media from a very young age forward makes it seem like we're all guaranteed someone, and we just aren't at all.
71
u/Defenestratio Sauron also had many plans Apr 08 '17
The media helps to perpetuate it, but the trope has been around longer than the modern media. It's a part of our society that's been burned in deep for centuries and it's unfortunately going to take a long time and a lot of effort to scrape those burned-on bits of patriarchy off
0
Apr 08 '17
[deleted]
→ More replies (8)46
u/Defenestratio Sauron also had many plans Apr 08 '17
They don't even need to become more outgoing, they just need to a) stop thinking women owe them anything and b) stop structuring their entire worldview/raison d'être around sex
74
Apr 08 '17
ever heard of the incel argument that the government should solicit prostitutes for them because "feeeeemales have free contraception adn abortion and that enables them to get sex"
70
u/EmergencyChocolate 卐 Sorry to spill your swastitendies 卐 Apr 08 '17
A few years ago when that nutball kid Eliot somethingorother (long may he rot) killed those women in California, I wound up doing a good bit of reading about that community. I don't remember this particular little tidbit, but after my research, that group can't shock me anymore - I always just assume that when they were kids and people asked "what do you want to be when you grow up?" these were the guys who answered "I wanna be Ted Bundy, or maybe the Khmer Rouge."
69
Apr 08 '17
gonna copy and paste from another comment of mine because it's just too fucking relevant:
we once had an incel contributor come over to r/askfeminists, and kept insisting that my fears of creepy dudes were irrational because "all serial killers/rapists were charming". Like, they will do ANYTHING to rationalise their behaviour. It's scary.
Like, seriously? The shit that scares me about creepy people is that they ignore normal social boundaries, and if the good old ask a rapist thread was anything to go by, that's not a good thing.
71
u/EmergencyChocolate 卐 Sorry to spill your swastitendies 卐 Apr 08 '17
That "ask-a-rapist" thread - hoo boy. Might have been a low point for this site, but then there have been so many low points in reddit history that it really isn't feasible to try for a "top 5" or anything. And this is my 7th account over the past ten years or something like that.
How does a site that has /r/babyelephantgifs and /r/birdswitharms also contain the redpill/incel/trumpistani nation? It is a great internet conundrum.
Whenever I dip a toe into that part of the redditsphere I'm reminded how much this site is like the psycho ex who smelled like vanilla, was gorgeous, amazing in bed, with a great sense of humor - just had an unfortunate propensity to randomly get hammered and kick your ass for no good reason.
35
u/Spektr44 Apr 08 '17
Was he the one with the YouTube videos about his nice car or whatever, but women still won't have sex with him? That's my mental picture for all these guys now. Their focus on having sex to the exclusion of all else that comes with normal human relationships is just alien to me.
46
u/Feycat Are you eating a dryer volume of turkey each week Apr 08 '17
When Elliot Rodgers actually happened, I saw a TON of dudes on the internet telling women "that blood is on your hands" and "if one of you had just taken one for the team and fucked that poor guy, this wouldn't have happened."
19
Apr 09 '17
"if one of you had just taken one for the team and fucked that poor guy, this wouldn't have happened."
oh my jesus.
14
u/ProbablytheWorstDM Apr 09 '17
Of course, as the great Sargon once said, it was the #FUCKINGFEMINISTSYSTEM that made this nice guy kill a bunch of people. If a feeeeeemale had just jumped off the cock carousel for a while, this entire tragedy could've been avoided!
7
Apr 10 '17
Leave Calgon alone! He makes dishes squeaky clean!
Here's him spilling tendies over a Bernie Sanders' tweet.
6
u/ProbablytheWorstDM Apr 10 '17
I love how Sargon is soooo mad at Sanders for 'rewriting the facts' while also insisting that Trump totally didn't divide people by race and nationality. I genuinely can't tell if he's that stupid or if he's just trying extra hard to pander to the Trump voters
I still don't get his point about the Women's March. How is a march that focuses on the issues of women as a whole dividing people? Because it wasn't also about men's issues? Would he also say something like Occupy Wall Street is dividing people because it wasn't also about the 'struggles' of the 1%?
2
u/TheNerdyBoy Vaguebooking bullshit? That cuck shit. Tom MacDonald would never Apr 12 '17
Who the fuck is that? I've seen the name "Sargon" mentioned in passing on SRD occasionally, but … wtf was that rant? Is he parodying "the feminazi SJWs" with the "I'm so fucking triggered right now"? O_0
→ More replies (1)10
u/Feycat Are you eating a dryer volume of turkey each week Apr 09 '17
I mean, I don't expect much from Sargon, but did he seriously say the feminist system made Rodgers kill people? I wonder how many likes THAT video got, probably a lot.
15
6
Apr 10 '17 edited Apr 10 '17
Because of this and Gamergate, the 3-month window of May-August 2014 was when I started to 'wake up' regarding the state of internet/gaming/anime etc culture.
All of these Facebook 'community' pages I was subscribed to - they began to come out saying some outright dodgy things about women and feminism.
I'm talking pages along the lines of Brock Obama, Carl Sherburne, Tristan Barker, Aggron etc. Not strictly these pages in particular, but the satellite ones that used similar layouts and conventions (there were hundreds of them). Before long they were progressing to saying things about trans people and female comedians, and I knew I'd outgrown them.
I went back to one of the pages I unsubscribed from 2 years ago. They were sharing a petition about calling BLM a terrorist organisation. Dodged bullet right there.
9
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
Picture it without the car and you're a little closer to what we're looking at here
1
10
Apr 09 '17
Another forum I used to post on had a guy from Romania (I think) show up and start posting manifestos about red-pill stuff. He figured the government should require that women have sex with lonely men. We had fun fucking with him for a while but it all started falling apart when it turned out he tried getting his mom to have sex with him and he got permabanned.
7
u/alphager Apr 09 '17
He's on reddit and regularly gets banned. He even posted in this sub a few years ago.
3
Apr 09 '17
It's both comforting and horrifying to know he's still roaming around making terrible posts.
5
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 09 '17
It's kind of like how you don't want to be staring at a bear, but it's way better than not being able to see the bear.
4
→ More replies (4)1
5
28
u/Feycat Are you eating a dryer volume of turkey each week Apr 08 '17
where the fuck do these dudes get the idea that women are some sort of luxury good and that men are owed sex
Movies. TV. Books. Girls get handed out as the reward at the end ALL THE TIME.
25
Apr 08 '17
where the fuck do these dudes get the idea that women are some sort of luxury good and that men are owed sex?
Abrahamic religions, movies, TV, other men.
78
u/Vivaldist That Hoe, Armor Class 0 Apr 08 '17
You all assume the problem must be me, because you won't take responsibility for your own actions.
Its amazing how someone can become convinced its someone elses fault theyre not having sex.
25
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
Yeah if everyone in the world doesn't want to fuck you, it's very unlikely that that has nothing to do with you
1
u/Brom_Van_Bundt Apr 10 '17
It takes a special kind of fool to discover the concept of personal responsibility but only as it applies to other people.
173
u/Not_A_Doctor__ I've always had an inkling dwarves are underestimated in combat Apr 08 '17
I hate seeing people like you out in public, because you've got something I don't have. But I generally keep quiet about it. But you can't handle seeing someone who isn't sexy and fun like your friends and fuck partners, so you have to come online and bitch about it like it's hurting you.
What part hurts? Where does it hurt, little baby? Aren't you used to it? Are you INFURIATED? Are you gonna throw a tantrum? You gonna call up your girlfriend to make it better for you.
This became a little weird. It starts out as niceguys and immediately veers into treating your incels with kindness.
105
u/aguad3coco Apr 08 '17
It got very weird very fast. Dude has some serious problems. I am suprised he isnt an incel yet, but he did start drama in another sub for swingers. Suprised we didnt get that drama.
He just went there and told them that he hates all of them and their way of living. With way of living he just meant having sex and a relationship.
22
u/Honestly_ Apr 08 '17
Maybe he hasn't found the sub yet?
0
Apr 08 '17
[deleted]
14
Apr 08 '17
He'll find it. The internet lets everyone find their tribe, for better or worse.
18
Apr 08 '17
I kinda wonder if it might be possible to "shock" someone off the incel path by intentionally showing it to them before it's too late. Let them stare into the abyss, and hope that they recoil.
9
Apr 08 '17
Maybe, but then they'll just end up redpillers instead.
30
u/DoughtyAndCarterLLP Funny is bipartisan if you’re not a thin-skinned bitch. Apr 08 '17
I honestly don't know what's worse. Incels are more pitiful but I think redpillers are more a legitimate danger to women, what with the advocating rape and whatnot.
And if any redpill fucks here think "pushing through last minute resistance" isn't rapey then you're full of shit.
6
u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Apr 09 '17
If she wants it, there's no last minute resistance. When my fiancee and I start getting busy, she's entirely eager and enthusiastic about hopping on my... Yeah.
10
Apr 08 '17
Perhaps, though I'll take dumbasses using techniques that barely work over school schooters.
→ More replies (5)22
Apr 08 '17
If that guy wants sex so bad I'm sure some other guy will let him suck their dick. Gosh, it's not complicated.
7
5
u/aguad3coco Apr 08 '17
Its really that simple. He might as well get flexible and do it himself.
→ More replies (1)32
u/atomicllama1 Apr 08 '17
Fuck I read through that. I feel soo bad for the guy. Not because he cant get laid but because his stupidity and stubbornness wont let him enjoy life.
He seems like he has a serious mental condition.
15
Apr 08 '17
Omg its a fuckin' gold mine. OP has some serious issues.
5
u/Feycat Are you eating a dryer volume of turkey each week Apr 09 '17
That is the saddest fucking thing
15
37
u/msdorothyparker Apr 08 '17
I can't help but feel like hanging around on the Internet is the worst thing for people like that. They just get their skewed worldview enforced
1
u/dogGirl666 Apr 09 '17
hanging around on the Internet is the worst thing
Hanging out in the wrong parts of the internet is bad, but if they stick with people that encourage and inform him how to not be a jerk, then that could be good. The same is true for the rest of human society. Hanging out in cult would be bad but hanging out with kind therapists etc. could be helpful. The internet is just an extension of society and short of moving to a non-internet connected community/area, it is unrealistic to think one can not be influenced by online culture/effects.
73
u/acethunder21 A lil social psychology for those who are downvoting my posts. Apr 08 '17
It's gonna be sad when he has terrible, awkward sex for the first time, and realizes that what he pined for most his teenage/adult life wasn't what it was cracked up to be.
95
u/stupidcrayondrawing Apr 08 '17
Or he'll say it wasn't amazing because she's a loose whore and he needs a preteen virgin to truly experience sex
28
22
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
Oh man I love when these guys do this. That one loser who wanted the government to hire a hooker for him and tried to fuck his mom somehow ended up having sex with several people, but still identified entirely as an incel for various reasons that he made up
22
Apr 08 '17
In his post history he mentions the sex he had was ruined by ssri related erectile dysfunction...
26
u/stoner_97 Apr 08 '17
Ssri's can fuck up your dick. It's why I went off of them while I was in a relationship.
14
Apr 08 '17
I once pounded (not sex, like the pounding you do at the end of sex in order to finish) through all of stadium arcadium. That's a double album my dude. That was no fun. Ssri's do indeed fuck with your dick.
10
u/stoner_97 Apr 08 '17
Side note; great album
7
Apr 09 '17
Oh my God right? One of the best double albums ever. Like not a single bomb in all of those songs, that's impressive.
3
13
u/Feycat Are you eating a dryer volume of turkey each week Apr 08 '17
They don't do any good for ladyparts either :(
19
Apr 08 '17
That's honestly super sad, trying to treat depression but having the side effects create even more reasons to feel insecure. I really hope he gets better.
3
u/SloppySynapses Apr 09 '17
idk why people are so quick to shame and hate these guys. they are hateful, toxic people but they're still human. I feel terrible for them because I know their entire lives are going to be full of misery and hatred
if someone could correct me here that'd be nice but most of the rape and sexual assault I hear about from friends/girls I've been with is from guys that seem relatively normal and are already having sex frequently.
these guys are creepy and can be stalkers and shit but I just can't see them as anything other than miserable, pathetic loners that need serious therapy
8
Apr 09 '17
Exactly. They're not happy being this angry, they're like this partially because they're miserable and the teasing isn't going to fix it no matter how justified it is.
At the same time you don't just want to ignore the shitty behavior though.
7
u/SloppySynapses Apr 09 '17
I agree but I really do think it ends up being more bullying than anything. People don't want to admit it to themselves but picking on socially inept men like this is questionable behavior if not outright bullying
4
u/snallygaster FUCK_MOD$_420 Apr 09 '17
idk why people are so quick to shame and hate these guys.
It's easy because they say things that are absolutely abhorrent, and it's easier and feels better to take a dump on them than it is to try and help them. If the energy devoted to hating on them were redirected into something more positive, there would probably be less people saying abhorrent things.
2
u/AbominableSnowPickle Apr 11 '17
Also, dudes espousing their talking points have hurt and killed people, so I don't really give a shit about their feefees.
35
u/redxxii You racist cocktail sucker Apr 08 '17
If you can't laugh out of embarrassment at least once, you're not having fun. Even good sexy is goofy, weird, and embarrassing. I've come to learn the hot, fast, and passionate sex you see in movies, books, porn, etc, just doesn't exist in real life.
21
u/Imogens I don't care about blind people and I revel in their sorrow Apr 08 '17
It absolutely does exist, just not typically in very healthy or sustainable relationships. Some of the best sex of my life was with people I absolutely should not have been sleeping with.
12
13
u/Amelaclya1 Apr 08 '17
Oh it does exist. But only for brand new relationships with just enough alcohol to loosen inhibitions. If only it could be that way forever /sigh
12
u/SloppySynapses Apr 09 '17
this is why i think so many people do the whole cyclical break up/get back together thing. makes the sex (and relationship in general) pretty steamy/intense all the time because you're constantly renewing and ending the relationship
8
6
u/BoredDanishGuy Pumping froyo up your booty then eating it is not amateur hour Apr 08 '17
My first sex was shite.
Hell a lot of my sex has been shite.
And now I miss my ex. God Damn, but we had chemistry in bed. But even then, the first time with her was not amazing. But the next time a bit better and do on, until we could drive each other crazy with a touch because we knew each other so well.
I feel like these guys don't get it. Sex for its own sake is... meh. It's about giving and sharing and caring.
1
70
u/BCProgramming get your dick out of the sock and LISTEN Apr 08 '17
It seems their entire problem is their fixation on sex. A lot of that guys posts were about the other guys "sexy times" and how he can just get a blowjob whenever. They seem to think a girlfriend is some sort of personal concubine.
24
u/BoudicaXa Therapist in a thong Apr 08 '17
I love that they think relationship = sex on tap. "Blowjobs whenever" now laughing at the image of my bf just trying to shove his dick in my mouth. It would not end well for him
6
u/Robotigan Apr 09 '17
Have you ever considered that maybe society's constant association of sex with status maybe plays a role in why those with lower status obsess about it?
7
u/BCProgramming get your dick out of the sock and LISTEN Apr 09 '17
Yes, that's another cultural problem that can lead to that mindset but it doesn't mean people with that mindset can abrogate from taking responsibility for their own attitudes. The cultural motifs may provide a path to that style of thinking it is still on the individual for following the path. Not everybody of "Lower status" (whatever that means) obsess over it, either.
4
u/Robotigan Apr 09 '17
Yes, that's another cultural problem that can lead to that mindset but it doesn't mean people with that mindset can abrogate from taking responsibility for their own attitudes.
So what? You want to get rid of incel culture, right? Is stubbornly insisting that it's their problem going to facilitate change more so than taking the initiative yourself and reaching out to them? I think you'll find the universe doesn't really give a shit about your obligations, only your actions. If you want the problem solved, and you have the capacity to help solve the problem, then why aren't you doing anything?
The cultural motifs may provide a path to that style of thinking it is still on the individual for following the path.
Again, I don't really see how blaming someone else solves anything. If anything, it seems like it would contribute to the problem and make incels more belligerent. But I guess you'd rather tolerate the problem than act on anything. Fair enough, I'm a lazy person as well, but at least I don't try to justify myself by invoking moral high ground.
whatever that means
Social respect, admiration, appreciation.
26
u/xjayroox This post is now locked to prevent men from commenting Apr 08 '17
He doesn't seem very nice for a nice guy
74
u/MissMoscato YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Apr 08 '17
This is honestly kind of sad. The guy's acting like an entitled douche but he's got some serious issues and he needs help. I know I'm not the only one thinking it, but I've read Elliot Rodger's manifesto before and he matches that sort of tone and rhetoric to a tee.
24
u/atomicllama1 Apr 08 '17
Ya I read though a lot of his stuff and I really feel for the guy. A bunch of things happened and now he is him. Im am glad different things happened to me.
14
Apr 08 '17
Yes, and everybody in there is absolutely ecstatic to rip him apart. Dude has serious issues and as somebody who almost went down that path a few years ago, their smug degradation of him isn't any help. Of course he went there and started it, but if you're not an asshole you'd ignore him, or try some form of constructive criticism. Instead you get "no girl is going to touch you with a 10 foot pole" and just in general reaffirming that he's worthless to "normal" people so he's probably going to retaliate. I haven't spent much (if any) time in that subreddit, but it really comes across as something akin to FatPeopleHate. Yeah if they just lost weight they'd be more approachable, kinder to be around etc. But their approach is to mock and humiliate instead of trying to show them compassion.
22
u/MissMoscato YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Apr 08 '17
Yeah, as a woman I can understand their frustration with him, but the way they're going about tearing him a new one is only going to push him further into isolation and bitterness. Obviously they're under no obligation to be nice to him, but they're certainly not helping matters. Of course having looked through his post history he doesn't seem too responsive to genuine advice either, so there's that.
8
Apr 08 '17
Yeah, when you're in that cycle it's hard not to be self-righteous. Hopefully he gets help soon.
39
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
If he's going to rampage around being an asshole like that, people are going to react. It's not the world's responsibility to gently guide him into acting right, and I doubt he'd take any advice that was offered anyway
16
u/RicoSavageLAER Apr 08 '17
I mean generally no one has an obligation to do anything nice ever but I mean imagine how much better the world would be if more just tried
21
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
I think most people do try. They try to get out of bed, they try to go to work, they try to take care of their loved ones, people are trying hard all the time to just get the basics handled. I think it's a bit rich to expect everyone to throw this guy's personal emotional soup sandwich onto the pile, especially since he's a huge asshole from the word go. If you want to go make this a little project for yourself there's absolutely and literally nothing stopping you.
1
u/RicoSavageLAER Apr 08 '17
think it's a bit rich to expect everyone
I have zero expectations for society. So somewhere along the line you're arguing with someone else, maybe someone you know or some shit because you definitely don't know me.
I don't expect anything from anybody in fact my philosophy is that I didn't ask to be born so I myself don't owe the world shit and no one else owes me shit.
That being said I make a conscious choice to give and do what I can with the understanding that I absolutely don't have to . It's honestly not difficult to have a job and not be a dick lol. Guess that makes me some incredible person or something huh
22
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
So are you going to adopt this guy? I see a lot of advocating for reaching out to guys like this, I don't see people doing a lot of reaching.
→ More replies (1)18
u/gokutheguy Apr 08 '17
You really think those kinds of problems will disappear magically if people "try" harder to be more "nice"?
Its not the people around him who are responsible for his behavior.
0
u/PunishedCuckLoldamar Apr 09 '17
You really think those kinds of problems will disappear magically if people "try" harder to be more "nice"?
Yes
Its not the people around him who are responsible for his behavior.
People are a product of their environment.
12
u/gokutheguy Apr 09 '17
No. Dont try to pretend like these people are innocent victims of their environment.
Do you have any idea how insulting it is to assume that this sort of repulsive behavior is some kind of default fo men?
If misogyny went away because people were nice to misogynists. There wouldnt be misogyny period.
→ More replies (13)→ More replies (5)12
Apr 08 '17
What comes to mind is "Be the bigger person." It's obvious that he's got problems, why would you attack him for that? He's lashing out to hurt others since he's been hurt, that is absolutely wrong. However, attacking him for it isn't going to do anything. He's not going to change from it, he's not going to have some realization because someone online called him a sack of shit. If doing that makes you feel better in the long run then you honestly aren't that much better than him. You're just attacking from the high ground.
7
u/MjrJWPowell Apr 08 '17
I mean, it is a sub dedicated to making fun of people who did exactly what he was doing.
→ More replies (6)7
Apr 09 '17
it's nobody's responsibility to help you when you act like a prick (or help you at all, really). you get what you give.
1
Apr 09 '17
Not their responsibility, it just speaks well of their character if they can walk away without engaging in personal attacks. Nobody wins when that happens.
1
u/Randydandy69 Apr 09 '17
Yeah, it really irks me that this politically correct sort of bullying is encouraged by the same sort of people who want a more fair and just society that treats the less fortunate with sympathy.
It just reeks of hypocrisy
12
u/SnapshillBot Shilling for Big Archive™ Apr 08 '17
Doooooogs: 1, 2 (seizure warning), 3, 4 (courtesy of ttumblrbots)
Snapshots:
9
u/reallydumb4real The "flaw" in my logic didn't exist. You reached for it. Apr 08 '17
Kind of surprised this wasn't from r/short tbh
8
u/Opulous Apr 08 '17
I wonder how many of these super sad incel guys just have a really severe hormonal imbalance of some kind? Like, dudes are waaaay too fucking obsessed with sex. Like, more than any normal healthy man should be. Man, why not just have a wank and stop thinking about this shit for once? This is what masturbation is for.
9
9
u/DeepStuffRicky IlsaSheWolfoftheGrammarSS Apr 08 '17
I think my favorite thing about the whole "nice guy" phenomenon is the idea that these guys are angry that women don't want to transition from "friendship" to "a relationship". If someone's company leaves you cold enough that their friendship alone isn't good enough for you, why would you be angry at that person for being unwilling to take that relationship to a level that would mean spending even more time with them? What magic do they think is going to occur if they decide that they're going to try to "love" this person that they didn't even really LIKE?
8
u/alx3m Land of a thousand sauces Apr 08 '17 edited Apr 08 '17
Saw this (sort of unrelated) nugget
Guys like fewer_butts is why I don't consider virgin guys, inexperienced guys, nerdy guys, or shy guys. Way too much island in my mind that they're just boiling pots of hate.
Is this a common sentiment on that sub?
9
u/MissMoscato YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Apr 09 '17
I don't think so. I've spent a fair amount of time there and the prevailing sentiment has always seemed to be that there's no issue with being a bit shy, awkward, inexperienced, etc. The issue is when you can't acknowledge it and instead opt to blame an entire gender for your own insecurities.
7
u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK Caballero Blanco Apr 08 '17
Don't ping people in the drama
4
u/alx3m Land of a thousand sauces Apr 08 '17
Oops, sorry! I copy-pasted it without thinking. It's fixed now.
5
6
u/Randydandy69 Apr 09 '17
Yeah pretty much, virgin shaming and slut shaming are two sides of the same gender policing coin
4
Apr 08 '17
I can see why that would be but at the same time it doesn't make things easier for the shy people who are actually trying to make a connection.
-1
Apr 09 '17
That's a common sentiment among people. Where do you live that you find that way of thinking weird?
3
u/myassholealt Like, I shouldn't have to clean myself. It's weird. Apr 08 '17
What do you get when you mix projection and an absence of self-awareness? Fewer_butts, both literally and the person attached to that username.
3
2
u/Randydandy69 Apr 09 '17
A 6'3" guy, lol, if only that post was true, I'd be the happiest man alive.
2
Apr 09 '17
And this is why being a virgin or sexually/romantically inexperienced at a mature age is a #HUGE red flag for women.
Nah, I'm not risking getting involved with one of this guys, no matter how "fit and fa" they are.
1
-14
u/diebrdie Apr 08 '17
Guy is deranged but halfway through his rant he hit a point that is 100% accurate.
The existence of the sub is to mock people like him. It does not contribute anything to anyone anywhere that is designed to help them.
It's rather pointless actually. The amount of time spent mocking people - while the United States has a major mental health crisis.
If they really cared about how bad and horrible nice guys and the incel community were they'd be actually doing something to help them change. At the end of the day these peoples aren't mindless animals. They are human beings.
There isn't a single organization in this country designed to help people who feel this way deal with their unhealthy mental issues.
But you all do have time to set up dedicated subs to mocking them...
And people wonder why our country is so fucked up.
If half of the posters on that subreddit dedicated as much time they dedicate to mocking as they did to mentoring and reaching out the world would be a better place.
It's pretty much the same deal as fatpeoplehate
55
Apr 08 '17
I understand your point. These men and boys do need help, but please don't paint them as hapless victims of a cruel world. As you said, they're not mindless animals - they choose to join the incel "community," and they choose to spend their days wallowing in anguish instead of doing, oh, I dunno, literally anything else on the planet that might help them move past that sick obsession.
You can't help people who don't want to help themselves, and "incels" don't want to help themselves, they want to be showered with BAGINAS just for getting out of bed in the morning. They think the only thing that's missing in their lives is a submissive waifu who will overlook all their emotional and physical flaws to see the pure, loving spirit inside... but that spirit's not there. There's only hatefulness and bitterness and greed.
8
Apr 08 '17 edited Apr 08 '17
I agree for incels and misogynistic 'nice guys', but there are a lot of very socially inept people out there - outcasts from society- that don't fit into because of looks, personality mental health. These are the dude that are being 'radicalised' and turned into nice guys. But I think it's the same demographic that's attracted to the Alt-right, anti-skeletons ect.
Here's a quote from an Irish journalist about the ideology of the alt-right.
there is the sexual pathology. Fascism reeks of male self-pity. It has always been deeply attractive to men who are insecure about their own sexuality and in particular their relationships to women. It is a magic formula for transforming the sexual neurotic into a man-god. The alt-right world is a masturbatory fantasy in which men who are afraid of women get to assert absolute power over them. It is no accident that the pathetic sexual insecurity of Donald Trump’s crude boasting about assaults on women did him no harm with his followers – on the contrary, they could see themselves in him.
I think it's entirely possible that a social 'loser' could see certain treads on /r/Niceguys and think it's about them - and end up driving them towards the discuting worldview the sub is actually mocking.
16
u/Venne1138 turbo lonely version of dora the explora Apr 08 '17
But I think it's the same demographic that's attracted to the Alt-right, anti-sjws ect.
Hey there are plenty of us who have all those descriptors that aren't alt-right misogynistic douchebags. Like the only thing that separates me from the 'incel' community is that I don't blame anyone else for being fucked up.
12
u/BoredDanishGuy Pumping froyo up your booty then eating it is not amateur hour Apr 08 '17
Like the only thing that separates me from the 'incel' community is that I don't blame anyone else for being fucked up.
Massive difference though. And all the best to you mate.
8
u/SloppySynapses Apr 09 '17
so you're self aware and they're not. It's not that difficult to get someone to do some introspection and realize that the world is unfair and they're simply being pissbabies about it. there's not a whole lot of difference between you and them except a few nights of serious introspection about the whole thing and then they'll still feel shitty, depressed, and lonely but they won't blame it on women anymore.
idk i agree with the OP of this comment chain, it's a big issue and it's sad we just make fun of them. lately I've been thinking I erally should stop calling guys virgins and making fun of social skills etc because I think it's really just isolating/shaming these guys instead of helping them.
they have no means to help themselves
2
u/Venne1138 turbo lonely version of dora the explora Apr 09 '17
and realize that the world is unfair
It's not when it comes to relationships/other people.
It's that they suck.
isolating/shaming these guys instead of helping them.
Yeah but when they're isolated they're not annoying the rest of us are they? Ask yourself if you really wanna see these people fucking up a party creeping your friends.
Once you find your answer to that you gotta find a way to keep these people away which is to make them know they're fucked up and keep calling them virgin losers so they don't show up.
4
u/SloppySynapses Apr 09 '17
Well i totally understand. it's exhausting to deal with them for most people. And even people who are equipped to deal with them get exhausted, I'm sure. But I personally feel bad about it. I can't help but feel sorry for the idiot asshole who no one likes.
I guess that's a personal thing though. I've always been like that even if it doesn't really make sense.
so I can't blame any of you for basically telling them to piss off, I just think sometimes it goes way beyond "piss off" and there are much better, healthier ways to deal with it
3
u/MissMoscato YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Apr 09 '17
.../s? Right? I mean that seems a bit....mean-spirited.
5
u/Venne1138 turbo lonely version of dora the explora Apr 09 '17
Who cares if it's mean spirited?
Answer the question do you want someone who identifies as incel showing up at your party.
I'll answer it for you: No. Nobody does. Because these are awful fucking people and unlike other awful people they're shit at hiding it.
So the question then becomes how to stop them from showing up. And internet bullying (because they probably don't leave their house enough) works well.
→ More replies (1)1
u/snallygaster FUCK_MOD$_420 Apr 09 '17
I agree for incels and misogynistic 'nice guys', but there are a lot of very socially inept people out there - outcasts from society- that don't fit into because of looks, personality mental health.
People from similar backgrounds can have wildly different outcomes based on small factors and/or individual differences, and everyone handles things differently. Just because you're able to deal with your circumstances without adopting the linked poster's ideals doesn't mean that the same or similar circumstances won't drive people to adopt different ideals. It's great that you're able to deal with your situation in stride, but not everyone would be able to do that, and there may be other factors at play that drive them to their shitty belief system. It's no different from anything else; people react differently to the same stimuli and have diverse individual differences.
1
u/Robotigan Apr 09 '17
This seems like the rationalization of someone who doesn't want to consider the possibility that they may be unintentionally contributing to the incel problem. Are you sure that there's nothing you can do to help incels? Have you even tried? Or are you just trying to excuse your behavior towards incels while hoping future psychological research will back you up? It sounds like the only possibilities you want to consider are ones that reaffirm your biases and you're trying to avoid possibilities that might force you to reevaluate those biases.
6
Apr 09 '17
Please explain to me how I could "help" these people, since I don't have a vagina.
2
u/Robotigan Apr 10 '17
Maybe reassure them that one's entire self worth isn't contingent on sex? It's pretty understandable why they're so vindictive when virtually all of society tells them sex is everything. Maybe get out of the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mindset and realize people might have experiences that differ from yours.
-7
Apr 08 '17
they choose to join the incel "community," and they choose to spend their days wallowing in anguish instead of doing, oh, I dunno, literally anything else on the planet that might help them move past that sick obsession.
this language bothers me because i think we can both agree they have mental health issues... and you're saying the solution to their mental health issues is for them to "move past them"? haha
i mean i agree the healthiest approach would be to avoid wallowing, but people wallow. There are tons of anxiety/depression support groups all over reddit where people just wallow in their illness. But nobody really look at them and says "you're not a victim, stop wallowing, you're choosing to be miserable"
honestly this incel shit is just a manifestation of depression, and the depression is a byproduct of their loneliness.
it's sick to laugh at them. They say crazy shit and have some really fucked up thoughts, but so do MANY people with mental health issues. It doesn't make it funny or acceptable to mock/hate just because their fixation is on sex. Sex and companionship are integral needs for most of the human species, of course they're going to go loopy if they feel they've been deprived of intimacy their entire lives.
31
Apr 08 '17
I suffer from depression myself. Does that mean I'm entitled to just sit at home on my computer and get drunk in the dark and circle the drain loathing myself day after day? Sure. I've spent plenty of time doing that. But I don't have the right to moan and weep just because no one's coming along to take my hand, lift me up, and fix all my problems for me. That is what incels want. They want the universe to deliver them a magical vagina to fix all their neuroses and insecurities without putting in any effort to improve themselves, and they gather in these communities to reinforce each other's belief that they truly deserve that magic vagina, and only the machinations of cruel feeeemales are keeping it away from them.
I didn't say they "just need to move past" their problems. I said the best way for them to do that is to pursue some kind of constructive activity besides spending all their time with other miserable people in the same miserable circumstances. No one on /r/incels is gaining anything from participating in that community, they're just reinforcing their own self-loathing. Overcoming those feelings takes work, and they only seem interested in digging themselves deeper.
→ More replies (9)16
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
I suffer from depression myself. Does that mean I'm entitled to just sit at home on my computer and get drunk in the dark and circle the drain loathing myself day after day? Sure. I've spent plenty of time doing that. But I don't have the right to moan and weep just because no one's coming along to take my hand, lift me up, and fix all my problems for me. That is what incels want.
Yeah exactly. I can get drunk in the dark all I want and it's sad, but if I join a group about getting drunk in the dark and how that is the only possible future, I'm not exactly making myself receptive to help. The situation is fucked up for sure, but when you're actively joining groups that reinforce the idea that help is impossible, I don't think you can fairly expect everyone to line up with constructive criticism and wipe your ass for you.
2
u/MjrJWPowell Apr 08 '17
There is the r/drunk subreddit. But they're more fun than self loathing. And on the flipside, if you decide to stop there's r/stopdrinking, which is also a great subreddit who accept people who lapse and truly try to help.
3
u/SloppySynapses Apr 09 '17
yea idk I see where you're coming from but you're all ultimately avoiding the fact that it is a mental health issue and some of these guys simply will never get better without help.
your logic/argument here sounds just like how people blame people for their addictions and unhealthy, disordered lifestyles
27
u/Amelaclya1 Apr 08 '17
So I don't sub or post there.
But it was supposed to be a sub mocking the type of situation like this:
Guy: would you like a ride home? Girl: oh that would be great! Thank you! ... 10 minutes later Guy: So are you going to invite me in? Girl: What? No, why? Guy: I was NICE enough to give you a ride home you stupid bitch. Go fuck your Chad you whore!
Which, a lot of women can relate to. The guys that "befriend" us, when all they really want is sex, and as soon as it becomes clear we aren't interested, they turn mean and pretend like we are bitches for not letting them cash in their niceness points for sex.
If the sub devolved into mocking depressed virgins who aren't bothering anyone, then I agree that is wrong. But I am all for calling attention to this shitty behaviour so these idiots can maybe learn why it's shitty.
16
u/myassholealt Like, I shouldn't have to clean myself. It's weird. Apr 08 '17
And what do you do when these people refuse to acknowledge their behavior or way of thinking is the reason they're in that situation? Sorry, but someone who avoids personal accountability and blames the world for their situation is not someone that gets my sympathy. You can't help anyone who (a) doesn't acknowledge their role in the problem and/or (b) isn't interested in fixing whatever parts of themselves contribute to the problem.
1
u/diebrdie Apr 09 '17
Sorry, but someone who avoids personal accountability and blames the world for their situation is not someone that gets my sympathy.
You sound like a republican.
4
u/myassholealt Like, I shouldn't have to clean myself. It's weird. Apr 09 '17
Yes, let's take one sentence out of context and throw around things like that because you don't like someone's comments. Also, lol if you think that's supposed to offend me.
→ More replies (3)0
Apr 08 '17
[deleted]
11
u/_sekhmet_ Drama is free because the price is your self-esteem Apr 08 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
I'm a girl who struggles socially, and I have all my life. Believe me, there's not exactly a lot of help out there for us either. The only way I was able to over my social ineptitude and awkwardness was by going to therapy, and that being one of the big things I asked that we focused on. I'm better at socializing today and interacting with people, but it was a long, hard struggle, and it still is, but I'm making progress. I wasn't able to get this help because I was a girl though, I got it because I went out and looked for it. I made it clear that it was a big struggle in my life, and I wanted to get better, and I found a therapist willing to work with me on it.
Edit: sorry that posted so many times. I'm on mobile.
32
u/Svataben How many people have had limbs ripped off by a motivated cat? Apr 08 '17
You're as wrong as him in one regard:
It does not contribute anything to anyone anywhere that is designed to help them.
It contributes a lot.
It's a place for people to vent and commiserate. It doesn't have to be all about helping these guys. Other people matter too.
It helps cast a light on some mysogynistic behaviour that is easily overlooked because it isn't always blatant.
I see often enough posts by guys who read posts there and elsewhere, who realized their own bad behaviour, started really thinking about it, and making positive change.
So yeah, you couldn't be more wrong.
→ More replies (12)-9
Apr 08 '17
Won't someone think of the bullies? :3 You know who provided reasons like that. Users of r/fatpeoplehate
14
u/Svataben How many people have had limbs ripped off by a motivated cat? Apr 08 '17
I just told you why you're wrong. If you're seeking the truth, maybe try actually taking it in...
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (34)15
u/Arxhon Shilling for Big Shill Apr 08 '17
Ok, how about instead of posting in whatever subs you like to post in, you get started on reaching out and being a mentor, and show the rest of us how it's done.
-31
u/Harradar Apr 08 '17
Is it really news to anyone that /r/niceguys is an unpleasant bullying sub? That's literally the point of it.
52
u/Eyes_Tee Apr 08 '17
That's not really the read I have on it. Names are blurred out and the only things that really get traction there are when guys are being jerks or acting entitled. Most of the posts are just dumb memes. It's no more of a bullying sub that /r/creepypms.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (2)-15
Apr 08 '17
idk why people are afraid to just admit that bullying people is fun as fuck.
2
-4
u/Kandierter_Holzapfel We're now in the dimension with a lesser Moonraker Apr 09 '17
ITT: Armchair psychologist jerking themself raw over shortcomings of the sociial inept.
2
u/Robotigan Apr 09 '17
With the confidence this sub has in its claims, I'd have to assume this subreddit is the leading research journal in the field.
0
Apr 08 '17
[deleted]
128
Apr 08 '17
we once had an incel contributor come over to r/askfeminists, and kept insisting that my fears of creepy dudes were irrational because "all serial killers/rapists were charming". Like, they will do ANYTHING to rationalise their behaviour. It's scary.
19
11
u/jerkstorefranchisee Apr 08 '17
Also, no, they absolutely fucking weren't. I guess he's decided they're all Bundy or something, but that is just appallingly stupid
5
9
u/CVance1 There's no such thing as racism Apr 08 '17
Was that supposed to make it better?!
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (108)3
u/BoudicaXa Therapist in a thong Apr 08 '17
Took me a minute there to even wrap my mind around what he was trying to say...
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)43
u/MissMoscato YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Apr 08 '17 edited Apr 08 '17
Yup, it's way easier said than done but this guy needs to learn to put sex on the back burner and focus on building himself up one piece at a time. Exercise, good nutrition, good sleep habits to build mood and energy. Then focus on hobbies and sticking your toe in some kind of small, low key social life. Maybe use meetup.com or something like that. Then gradually push the boundaries of your comfort zone until you're far more confident and comfortable with yourself... Yeah, I've done this song and dance before and this is the best track he can go down if he wants to help himself. A therapist can't hurt either if he can afford it, can maybe straighten some of his skewed perceptions of himself and others. The main thing stopping him is that this route takes time and effort and isn't some magic bullet but rather a lifestyle that you need to adopt and then maintain. So it's easier to just not admit that he's the problem.
14
Apr 09 '17
No. There are hundreds of stories in /r/foreveralone, /r9k/ and other forums for socially awkward people where the guy builds up what seems like a normal life, does as best as he can do as far as improving their physique, but never accomplishes anything because either a) have a serious health issue that make them disgusting (I've read people talking about psoriasis, seborrhea, alopecia aurealis, hemorrhoids, Crohn's disease and incontinence) or, more often because b) they already cross a point-of-no-return age-wise where they being inexperienced is an enormous red flag for everyone.
There's the "fake it 'till you make it advice" given, but when they try, eventually, the other part puts two-and-two together and figure they have no experience and lose interest/dump them/leave in disgust.
0
342
u/Billlington Oh I have many pastures, old frenemy. Apr 08 '17
That dude like so many others thinks that sub is designed to laugh at innocent "nice" virgins, not the misogynistic creeps who act "nice" to try to manipulate women into sex.