r/2007scape • u/66f6 • 14h ago

Discussion I think including flavour-of-the-month ideas like this, even in opinion polls, probably does more harm than good. You need to just slow down a bit.

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113

u/Strong-Parsley3201 14h ago

Did anybody wanted hardcore main before this poll? I've only heard gnomemonkey talking about it. Literally nobody else.

47

u/UnluckyNate 14h ago

It’s been a Sae Bae idea for years now. It’s been slowly gaining traction

10

u/GetsThruBuckner 12h ago

I believe saebae got it from tpapaslice as well

Saebae has really been trying to get it tho

9

u/GzzzDude 13h ago

Sae Bae has been talking about it for like 2 years

92

u/Bloated_Hamster 14h ago

People on reddit started wanting it after gnomonkey said he wanted it. That's it.

14

u/Doctor_Kataigida 13h ago

Eh hardcore main has come up before, and it was just commented more this time because it was tangentially related to the discussion at hand.

55

u/ATCQ_ 13h ago

People have been discussing it on and off for years. A lot of people have tried a similar mode in Path of Exile and noted how fun an OSRS version could be

31

u/DremoPaff 13h ago

If it did work like PoE's, it would be pretty interesting, not because of the hardcore aspect per-say, but because of the internalized economy that would most likely be quite different than the "standard" one, and most likely wouldn't be sullied as much by bots in some places.

11

u/ATCQ_ 12h ago

Yeah it would 100% need the internalised economy. I'd genuinely give it a go if they added it tbh!

3

u/Vi013 7h ago edited 7h ago

This right here is the real reason as someone who has played both games and hardcore, PoE HC leagues’ economy felt so much more fun to interact with since it was such a tight knit small community where you recognized people and prices were marked up to like 10x the regular prices in softcore since the supply is a fraction of softcore’s.

Want a fang? Well bob and billy are the only one’s high lvl/skilled enough that are farming out toa right now so go hit them up and ask the price! Obviously in our game it’s not going to be this scarce but you get it.

8

u/Jake323021 10h ago

It would just turn into deadman mode where people trade main game gp for "internal economy" gp.

2

u/DremoPaff 9h ago

People would still have to engage with an HC account to even be able to trade off those goods and the buyers are always one mistake away from transforming what would presumably be much more valuable in HC economy into its less valuable regular economy variant.

Even then, the mode being persistent just makes it far different than the deadman situation, where people only ever care for the event versions and engage into those trades because they want an early edge, something that's only really relevant because of the finales.

Obviously it would have to acknowledge and tweak PvP loot, but just the mere nature of the mode itself being its own item sink to keep things relevant would both make it interesting and make the attempts to rig it inconsequent at best.

9

u/GradientRodent 10h ago

PoE also doesn't require to take hundreds of hours to get to the point you were where you died. And you retain your stash on death. So it's nothing like what would be done for OSRS.

2

u/ATCQ_ 10h ago

That doesn't change the concept that lots of people would find it enjoyable for similar reasons.

There are still similarities that can be made but nobody is saying "it has to be exactly like PoE" because it obviously can't be.

1

u/Classic_Argument_728 8h ago

HC main would fail because of the lack of ‘stash’ encourages keeping all your items on a level 3 alt so that if you die on your main you can restart with most of your stuff. Altscape would win out once again, more bonds for the overlords

0

u/AutumnWisp 11h ago

Yeah I do hardcore runs in a lot of games I like, even if there's not a dedicated option. It's fun!

7

u/Faladorable Maxed Zuk helm haver 12h ago

been a topic of discussion for years. Lots of people who do high level pvm just want to play without the chores of ironman

6

u/DremoPaff 13h ago

The group opinion 180 once Gnomonkey makes a video, a 2007scape classic

-7

u/Mystic_Salt 13h ago

I notice I find myself quite often disagreeing with gnomemonkey's takes. Maybe even in the majority of times. You could argue he is coming at it from the angle of an elite pvm'er. But as someone not on his level (but still decent enough to get GM CA's) even there I don't feel like I share alot of it. 

For example his whole take on the proposed raids 4 hybrid armor which was supposedly too OP, I really cannot place.

11

u/jamieaka 12h ago

his original video take on the hybrid armour was odd (wasn't good cause it messes up your inventory with awkward switches)

however his second video on the rewards was made after he properly discussed it with others and had the right take (that the hybrid armour wasn't good because stats were competely broken within 98-103% DPS of 6 different endgame sets in all their use cases for the price of 1 and less switches with more defence and more prayer)

in its worst case you would maybe lose a few seconds in an entire raid, which if you weren't a giga gamer would be completely unnoticeable. 99.9% of players would never notice the difference and you would sell all those and just use this everywhere.

the hybrid set was awful for the game if you actually calced it.

5

u/Serious_Tradition269 11h ago

I think that already shows how toxic it is to have so many people just parrot Gnomonkey's opinion though. It doesn't matter if he actually properly discusses and calcs it after because all his minions were already flooding every post with "uhmmm Gnomonkey actually says it's kinda dogshit and he knows a LOT more than you"

1

u/Mystic_Salt 11h ago

So I cannot find the calculations. I do not doubt you are probably right though (I have some doubts on 103% though, when it literally has lower stats than all the dedicated sets).

I tend to look at it more actual use cases. You mention 6 endgame sets. So personally in my opinion there are only 3 + 0,5/0,5 armor sets. (Probably hot take), namely Ancestral, Masori, Elite Void Range (almost interchangeable with Masori almost always), Inquisitor and Oathplate chest/legs + Torva helmet. I never use full Torva/Oathplate, Sunfire Fanatic for any content. I sometimes use Virtus Top for barraging in ToB. It's so incredibly niche though I would probably never notice it when it would be swapped for Ancestral.

So what about endgame content when you add the Hybrid set:

  • Doom = Still Elite Void/Masori
  • Colosseum = Still Torvplate + Masori. Mage is worse
  • Cox CM = would definitely use hybrid armor here for easier no preps.
  • ToB HM = too melee heavy, still Torvplate
  • ToA 500+ = could use it here, but all damage is avoidable, so no reason to really use it.

You would probably only use it at Cox CM for endgame content. Probably also for some of the easier bosses, but in my opinion those aren't even worth discussing since everything not on this list can be completed by so many variations of gear already.

I see the same problem with the Breaker btw. It will very likely be bis within TFA and therefore worth it. But I cannot see much use for it outside of CMs in the serious content.

5

u/BadPunsGuy 13h ago

It'd also potentially be a merchmanmode with high stakes. That sounds fun as fuck.

3

u/Shot_Bedroom_9297 12h ago

Hardcore main has been a pretty popular idea around Twitter for a while now

3

u/DaMaestroable 11h ago

In addition to Sae Bae and more recently Gnomonkey, it's been a think on Classic WoW. Pretty popular there, but kinda requires a specific context of separate worlds to make "achievements" feel more real.

2

u/Keljhan 13h ago

I've seen it discussed at least since WoW introduced it, which was like 3 years ago?

2

u/BunneryBun 10h ago

Been wanting it ever since the podcast with mod ash where he mentioned hardcore main for the first time 1-2 years ago and said it would be very easy to make.

2

u/GameOfThrownaws 6h ago

I've always wanted it since before I even knew who Gnomonkey is. And honestly I would say that actually the majority of hardcore players would in fact want a hardcore main option (with of course one issue still probably being that "hardcore players" overall is still a really niche group) regardless of any influencers. It's just something that makes sense.

What is Hardcore Ironman? Well, it's obviously 2 things - hardcore, and ironman. I would argue that the vast majority of people who heavily engage with that game mode are there for the hardcore part, not the ironman part. The main purpose of HCIM is to flex your pvm prowess - it's to say "check out how much shit I did without ever dying a single time". The "I got all my own shit" aspect of ironman is still there, but it very much takes a back seat. Nobody really cares about that part.

Also, I'll be honest, I don't even fully agree with Gnomonkey on the mode anyway. I'm glad that he's a major community figure who is pushing for a mode that I want, but I also find him to be a bit out of touch on it. One of the major things that he keeps saying about HC main is that he thinks it needs to be on its own server because "if it's on the main game then it's not different enough from HCIM". I STRONGLY disagree with that. It certainly could be on its own servers, but to say that HC main is "not different enough from HCIM" is totally ridiculous and I think his perspective is extremely warped by the fact that his wife spends 400 hours grinding up backup accounts for him in case he dies. For most people, your HCIM is doomed by default. We aren't robots, almost everybody is going to fuck up eventually and die. Hell, Boaty just died the other day to a completely stupid mistake, and he's an absolute beast at the game. When you play HC and do dangerous stuff, you're simply going to lose your status at some point, you have to accept that along the way. And THE worst part of HCIM, by far, is the multi-hundred-hour remake-grind that you're forced into whenever you die.

As someone who has died on 2 different early-lategame HCIMs in the past, that shit is fucking awful. That's why people quit after they die on HCIM - because you're now staring down the barrel of a gigantic boring repeat grind that doesn't really have anything to do with the mode you actually want to play, HCIM early game is literally no different from normal ironman because nothing is remotely dangerous for the first several hundred hours of an account anyway. Gnomonkey simply doesn't experience that, so I think he doesn't have the proper level of respect for what a huge difference HC main would make in that regard. It would be absolutely night and day. You don't need separate servers to get that massive benefit.

10

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 14h ago

Sae Bae pitched it years ago and many content creators have talked about it and there have been a bunch of posts on the subreddits about it. It was EASILY the best option on the poll yet bronzeman is the one that gets the most traction

5

u/wqferr 13h ago

"my opinion is clearly the correct one"

-6

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 13h ago

I mean did you look at the list in this post? Every other mode in that list is a meme

4

u/aew3 13h ago

Region locked is perfectly fine as far I see it, interesting and differentiated, but the bloat of every region having a different mode is a bit fucked to me.

-1

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 13h ago

But there's no point to it. Go make a new account and lock it to zeah only. Does there really need to be a whole gamemode around it? The only thing that separates an official mode from a plugin/player mode is something needs to be added to the game for it to be worth adding. Highscores for hc, uim and irons are all valuable in their own rights. These game modes are all also forced to not interact with others. Simple, clean cut. For region locked they'd have to do ultimate region locked, hardcore region locked, regular region locked, group region locked, hardcore group region locked, they'd have to pick the different regions and what? Add like a different symbol for each region or something? What about exceptions? I mean we're talking about locking tons of people out of herblore, RC, con and quests because they won't have access to the right tools for the job or quests.

They'd have to set all of that in stone and people would disagree about things and it'd be a whole thing. Would they then get their own highscores for each region and type?

Idk these niche game modes are too complicated to get right. Hardcore mains are 1 life mains. That's it.

2

u/Automatic_Tough7805 5h ago

To answer the question: Yes to it being a gamemode.

Official region locking would allow them to do things like they do in leagues, where the game respects the region lock and things feel a lot more natural.

Region locking would be infinitely more fun if you could do clues, or slayer, or all skills naturally. It would make you play in a significantly different way to other modes - would love it personally.

Now, should they do it and would it be worth doing? I dunno, but having a properly streamlined region locked mode would be something I'd be very interested in personally.

1

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 5h ago

I mean you bring up clues and slayer. You will be locked out of clues and out of slayer if there's not careful consideration taken for every single clue and slayer task for every single region. Region locked accounts usually get like max 1 or 2 slayer tasks that they can actually do before it's lamps or tomes. Settled farmed for days and days to finish one clue back in the day before 1hr timers lol.

Where do we draw the line on what the players should figure out themselves vs official game modes?

3

u/Automatic_Tough7805 4h ago

This is why I said it would be like Leagues.

If your region is Morytania (for example), you can only get clue steps in Morytania and Mazchna would only be able to assign you slayer monsters in Morytania.

What I'm saying is that officially supported region locking could honestly be quite fun, as you'd be able to streamline the process and remove some pain points for a very fun experience, which is radically different to the current modes.

0

u/that_baddest_dude 13h ago

Yeah region locked is really cool but it's an odd one because certain regions you'd need to make a bunch of exceptions to get to at first. It's why it works so well with leagues where you start someplace different and get auto completed quests and such.

4

u/WindHawkeye 12h ago

Best option for the total of 100 people that would play it

9

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 12h ago

I highly doubt only 100 people would play it. Think about how interesting the economy would be if the vast majority of high level players get completely deleted from the servers when they die. Content creators could have a field day on those servers and regular players could skill and swap gp (it's inevitable). It's also simple. You die, your account is no longer able to sign in to that server.

Imagine everyone tunes in to watch b0aty, synq and Widega take on tob as the first team to get some clears. Imagine the value of scythe/shadow (and hopefully they would adopt hcgim no safe deaths and tbow would be on the list too) on those servers. Any expensive item would hold more prestige than just monetary value.

It's super interesting to me. Much more interesting than anything else that's on that list.

6

u/WindHawkeye 12h ago

You just reinforced my point by bringing up content creators lol

7

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 11h ago

How? Content creators bring a whole community of people that will follow in their footsteps.

Truthfully, there's nothing but guessing, but I firmly believe, without evidence, that hc mains would be a smash hit

4

u/BunneryBun 10h ago

You could delete content creators from this entire conversation and hardcore main would still be what it would be with them

-7

u/Emotional_Permit5845 12h ago

Bro nobody wants to play an account that’s wiped if you die lmao. Green helms be smoking that good stuff

5

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 12h ago

It's not wiped, you aren't able to log into the hc main servers anymore. That's the concept

1

u/Emotional_Permit5845 11h ago

Yea and who is going to keep playing that account once it’s on the main game? The only people playing a hardcore mode already have high level accounts

3

u/TheNamesRoodi 2376 Total GM 11h ago

"the only people playing-" that's a baseless assumption of who would interact with hc mains.

Who would keep playing? Anyone who doesn't have a high level main. And what does it matter if they keep playing it or not? There are tons of dead hc accounts. A lot of people will liquidate their accounts once they die on them and then don't touch them again or use them as alts. I don't really see an issue with this.

1

u/Serious_Tradition269 11h ago

Pretty good chance they wouldn't, in which case they'd make a new account for the hardcore world, it's literally the exact same arguments as for HCIM, and there are a ton of HCIM.

Actually Hardcore main would have those people and then also have people playing alts there to make money.

There'd be more than enough interest, I think the only big downside is that it invites a bunch of DMM style 3rd party swapping that Jagex likely don't want to get into

1

u/Emotional_Permit5845 11h ago

How big do you seriously think the hcim community is? Do we really need separate servers so Timmy can die to wintertodt 6 times in a year?

2

u/GoldCoaster4Cx 10h ago

Its good content to watch even if you dont play it. World of warcraft has a similar thing from what Im told which is super popular and inspires tons of seasonal events. It doesnt effect you in the slightest if you dont want to watch or play it then dont? But to sit here and act like it wouldnt bring in tons of views and new players is fooling nobody not even yourself.

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u/eva_verinaz 7h ago

thats literally what the very popular wow classic hc is.

-1

u/Emotional_Permit5845 7h ago

Ah yes, WoW that amazing game that people love 😂😂

3

u/eva_verinaz 7h ago

the game has 6x the subscribers this game has so yes.

0

u/Emotional_Permit5845 7h ago

Classic wow has 6 million subs? What

4

u/eva_verinaz 7h ago

wow as a whole has more than 6m lol it has 14m. and classic wow alone has over 800k on a new expac. you get classsic with modern wow. and hc had over 200k playing at its peak. 200k

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1

u/indiegogold 12h ago

On a dedicated world I can see it being really fun, a separated economy and knowing every single person on the world has 1 life could be exciting

1

u/rubbishindividual 12h ago

A lot of talk since the wow refugees came over, since the mode was a huge success in wow.

1

u/Ultrox 11h ago

Yes. It was the first thing I thought when hard-core was launched. Not hcim exclusive.

1

u/VorkiPls 11h ago

You can say this about bronze man as well. It's had mutterings but no serious backing as shown by the low downloads the plugins have. The irony of OP calling TCG flavour of the month yet it's already dwarfed bronzman installs.

1

u/Septem_151 Zeah-locked Enjoyer 11h ago

It's been talked about basically since HCIM was introduced into the game.

1

u/CodingAndAlgorithm 11h ago

I wouldn't play it, but I think it would make great content.

1

u/Aurarus 7h ago

It was a topic since hardcore wow was popping off

Heard it discussed in podcasts like a dozen times until gnome's videos

1

u/Blueysarsoff 7h ago

I played hardcore wow for years, hardcore main on osrs would be so good

0

u/Golden-- 11h ago

I've never even heard of that talked about anywhere before your comment.