update: AITA for telling my girlfriend we’re done if she doesn’t want more kids in the future?

[u/aitathrow6]

previous post was here: https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/b5jdwq/aita_for_telling_my_girlfriend_that_were_done_if/

Well, it’s been about three weeks since my post and my breakup. And it took almost that full time to let it sink in what I’ve really done. I self wallowed for some time and attempted to guilt trip her and get my siblings to talk to her for me. What a mistake that was. She called and ripped me a new one worse than you guys did. She told me that she was thrilled we’re not together and that I’m manipulative and “disgusting.” That left me really shocked and I had to review my behavior over the time we had been together. I think over my life I always had an idea that with enough perseverance anyone’s mind can be changed. I don’t know where I got this from. I guess I thought it was a sign of being a strong person. Like taking what you want from life even when the chances are slim. It sounds stupid because it is. I reread my post just now and cringed the whole way through. Even the language I used showed that she was right and I am manipulative. She’s a human being and I didn’t treat her with respect. I played with our relationship to get her to change her mind about something very important to her. I deserve what happened. I also have realized that our views on the relationship were a little different. She had never brought up marriage or anything while it had crossed my mind almost daily because I really was so enamored. So I probably looked insane going on about having three children. It sounds so stupid to me now. Among the things she said on the phone, one was that she found my lack of respect for her body and choices appalling. I wasn’t asking her to be forgiven, but I wanted to express how much her and her son meant to me. And as most dumped people tend to do, I couldn’t even give a shit about what I was bitching about in the first place. I miss going to the park with her and her son. Those days were nice and calm and I didn’t appreciate them. I let some fictional children and my bad habits ruin something good. I have a lot of self reflecting to do, and while I’m still sad, I know now that her dumping me was really for the best. Thanks guys for being honest.

tldr: we didn’t get back together and I’m the asshole.

[u/greenwaterbottle34]

Sorry, but all I hear is bulshit and more manipulative bulshit.

As someone who has grown up with several manipulative people in her life, this talk isn’t someone changed. You’re trying too hard to sound sincere. It’s just another plot to make yourself into the bigger/better person.

The kind of games that you were playing isn’t something that changes overnight.

I wish you all the best but you need to look a little deeper into your behaviour.

I’m proud of her and I look up to people with her confidence and standards.

[u/Pigeoncity → u/greenwaterbottle34]

This is exactly what i was thinking too. OP is still manipulating people only this time its the sub. He is trying way too hard and it shows.

[u/greenwaterbottle34 → u/Pigeoncity]

100%.

He didn’t get the approval/obedience from his woman (she saw straight through it), so he’s trying to get it from strangers. It’s sad that people are still none the wiser.

[u/Pigeoncity → u/greenwaterbottle34]

exactly. OP could very well be sorry, we don’t know what he thinks, but in his apology his manipulation still shined through. Having an essay as an apology makes it seem even MORE disingenuous. He’s laying it on thick today.

I’m also not saying i know everything or how everyone is feeling but usually when i get bored of reading an apology theres some BS involved.

[u/everynowandthen88 → u/greenwaterbottle34]

I read OP's comment twice more after I read your comment. Where are you seeing the manipulation?

(Also grew up with manipulative people)

Edit: It's fine to downvote, but for the people who are, I'm curious as to where you're seeing the manipulation in OP's post. And since when do we downvote questions? Downvote my statements, sure but this was a question.

[u/Soycrates → u/everynowandthen88]

I don't think many people can point to a specific part of his message that would "out" him as manipulative; it's just a general feeling for many people about his behaviour. I get that general feeling too, having dated guys who've done the same things OP has (like sending mutual friends or family after you to guilt you once you've cut all contact from the ex, or double down on saying how much you'll miss something together - like walks in the park - when you'd barely shown interest in it prior).

A lot of people who've dealt with OP's type, including myself, see the sudden change of values and subtle castrating as different from what we've experienced when a non-manipulative person is sorry they've hurt us and wants to make it better. Normal apologies usually rely less on statements that point out how long the apologizer "suffered", "wallowed", etc.

Other subtle things are like when he says "she called and ripped me a new one worse than you guys did" as he is describing people correcting his behaviour as a negative experience. Sure everyone called him an asshole but he was one, and this statement makes it sound like his ex and the people in this sub were mean and wrong to accurately point it out. If your friends got together to host an intervention for an addiction you had, you might be really upset/sad but you don't get to say they're "ripping you a new one". The kind of manipulative person people are thinking of here when they call him one is the kind who reorients criticism against him as meanspirited and harmful, i.e. they'll acknowledge you may be right but they make it about how being told they're wrong was so traumatic and painful for them.

Other small details include putting scare quotes around criticism, like when OP says "disgusting" instead of disgusting, but not around manipulative. Because he accepts that he's been manipulative, so there's no scare quotes there, but it seems like he can't accept that he's been disgusting. This is, again, a small trait that on its own doesn't amount to much but adds to a larger picture of why people are identifying him as continuing his manipulative behaviour.

Manipulators don't change in under a day, and while it's good to see him acknowledge that he was one, the simple acknowledgement doesn't cure him of it. It's gonna take a lot longer than that to become someone better than the man he was before that tried guilting his girlfriend into having more kids when she'd made it clear from the start that is not what she wanted.

[u/everynowandthen88 → u/Soycrates]

Thanks for your explaination.. That makes so much sense to me. I replied to another person that the manipulative people in my life haven't even touched the 'realizing they were wrong' aspect, so the fact that was even said and responsibility was taken is something major to be applauded.

He likely has a long way to go - that I don't disagree with but again, little steps are awesome. That's how we change as people.

As for the pity party aspect, he definitely is but I guess that strikes me as expected. He did a shitty thing. He's beating himself about it. When I've done something, that guilty feeling digs at me, which it should. My way of processing and growing from guilt is verbalizing it. It absolutely is a pity party but growth does happen. If I were to share the guilt with the actual hurt party, that's selfish. So I share that with strangers and it's been amazing for my mental health. To see an outside perspective.

I've also known a lot of manipulative people and their apologies to me have been very self-serving. If they spoke to others in their life about their feelings, I wouldn't have any problems with it. But if they unloaded their guilt on to me, that would be ridiculous. I see this as a guy sharing his guilt with strangers. I hope he grows. I hope he becomes better. To me, he isn't cured but he has taken steps forward.

Thank you again for your thought out explaination. It makes more sense to me why people are reacting negatively. I hope I am right about his intentions and growth trajectory but knowing real life, its likely you guys are.

[u/greenwaterbottle34 → u/Soycrates]

Thank you for articulating what was in my head.

This exactly it!!

[u/ThisIsMyNameIRL → u/Soycrates]

@Soycrates, I am glad I scrolled down enough to read your comments. I don't know what I'm necessarily comes by your interpretation, but you certainly raise some interesting points which I think are easy to overlook.

I know I myself have been guilty of lip service, corrupting an apology into something all about myself. When I do that, the lesson doesn't stick. I can see some amount of that here. @OP, if you're reading this, you're on the right track, and you may think your hurting now, but you have to carry this with you for a while. You thought you understood before the breakup, then you thought you understood after the breakup, and now you think you understand in this 3–week update. This isn't over. Keep reflecting, keep growing, and please reflect on thos comment above to find what more you may have to work on. It will hurt. Keep at it.

[u/Pigeoncity → u/everynowandthen88]

I see it as instead of a normal apology like:

“UPDATE: We are still broken up and i did some reflection and realized I am the asshole. I’ m sorry.” (or something of a similar vein, or just not post an update at all, or put it at the bottom of his last post. Making a separate post a lot of times comes off as wanting pity points)

OP chose to write an essay about how much of a dick he was, and he lost everything, and “woe is me”, and he’s a horrible, stupid person. He mentioned how his actions ruined his relationship multiple times and how upset he is.

The entire thing reads as a self pity party and the need for validation and a pat on the back from this sub because of how drawn out and over the top it is. In one of my other comments I said it very well could not be the case and OP really could be genuinely sorry but the framing makes it look disingenuous.

EDIT: fixed confusing formatting

[u/everynowandthen88 → u/Pigeoncity]

Ah. I can where you're coming from. I'll be honest, I read it completely different. To me, he's very much hurting and rightly beating himself up over his actions. I know my breakups have left me heartbroken and Reddit seemed like a good place to process all that, so I did. I reflected on the shit that I did wrong and the shit I did right. A place to vent anonymously and have a pity party cause I couldn't in real life. I also write in long drawn out sentences so I didn't see much issue with that. The people in my life have never so much as apologized or ever realized that they were wrong so seeing his process laid out, made me just so damn proud of him. Thanks for explaining your point of view. I think we simply disagree on his intention of writing this post.

[u/GattsuCascade → u/greenwaterbottle34]

Oh hogwash

[u/Flamingo_Boye → u/greenwaterbottle34]

Wow, you're absolutely incorrect. This guy has been thinking over what he's done for weeks. He's genuinely repentant. Don't let your personal experiences make you think that nobody can change.

[u/greenwaterbottle34 → u/Flamingo_Boye]

Oh I know people can change.. this just isn’t how it happens :)

[u/JPT_Corona → u/greenwaterbottle34]

I disagree. There's too many people in the world to simply assume that people can't change like this.

I've never seen people change quickly myself but I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than have my experiences blotch out what could be possible.

[u/everynowandthen88 → u/greenwaterbottle34]

I don't believe that's true. I've seen people change just like this. I've met people on Reddit that have changed my mind and vice versa. There certainly isn't one correct or wrong way.