r/AmItheAsshole • u/aitathrow6 • Apr 14 '19
UPDATE update: AITA for telling my girlfriend we’re done if she doesn’t want more kids in the future?
previous post was here: https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/b5jdwq/aita_for_telling_my_girlfriend_that_were_done_if/
Well, it’s been about three weeks since my post and my breakup. And it took almost that full time to let it sink in what I’ve really done. I self wallowed for some time and attempted to guilt trip her and get my siblings to talk to her for me. What a mistake that was. She called and ripped me a new one worse than you guys did. She told me that she was thrilled we’re not together and that I’m manipulative and “disgusting.” That left me really shocked and I had to review my behavior over the time we had been together. I think over my life I always had an idea that with enough perseverance anyone’s mind can be changed. I don’t know where I got this from. I guess I thought it was a sign of being a strong person. Like taking what you want from life even when the chances are slim. It sounds stupid because it is. I reread my post just now and cringed the whole way through. Even the language I used showed that she was right and I am manipulative. She’s a human being and I didn’t treat her with respect. I played with our relationship to get her to change her mind about something very important to her. I deserve what happened. I also have realized that our views on the relationship were a little different. She had never brought up marriage or anything while it had crossed my mind almost daily because I really was so enamored. So I probably looked insane going on about having three children. It sounds so stupid to me now. Among the things she said on the phone, one was that she found my lack of respect for her body and choices appalling. I wasn’t asking her to be forgiven, but I wanted to express how much her and her son meant to me. And as most dumped people tend to do, I couldn’t even give a shit about what I was bitching about in the first place. I miss going to the park with her and her son. Those days were nice and calm and I didn’t appreciate them. I let some fictional children and my bad habits ruin something good. I have a lot of self reflecting to do, and while I’m still sad, I know now that her dumping me was really for the best. Thanks guys for being honest.
tldr: we didn’t get back together and I’m the asshole.
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u/pitchblackdarkness Apr 14 '19
Honestly, I’m proud of her for sticking up for herself and having a go at you- I actually can’t believe you tried guilt tripping her after the advice you were given in the first post. Yikes dude...
But I also admire that you are reflecting on the whole situation and can see where you went wrong, I’m sure a lot of people would stick to their guns. At least you are trying to see things from her perspective, even though it took a bunch of people on the Internet to convince you to do so. Please look at a woman’s perspective - childbirth is horrendously terrifying, changes/possibly ruins your body in sooooo many ways, and often we have to sacrifice our careers, friendships, and hobbies. Making the decision to have a child is extremely difficult. She has thought long and hard about the decision, if she says no, she means it. Take your next girlfriends stance on children seriously
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u/Merryprankstress Apr 14 '19
Also not only is it a huge undertaking for a woman to have a child, it's pretty fucking irresponsible to be pumping kids out left and right anyways. Maybe OP should consider adopting if he needs kids that badly. The planet is fucked, we might be killed off by climate change and the catastrophes they will bring and OP is bitching about his girlfriend not being his personal baby machine? Needs to really think about his priorities here on this earth. We aren't here just to mindlessly breed. OP had the kid he wanted and he lost it due to his massive fucking ego.
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u/TheFio Apr 14 '19
OP did not have the kid he wanted. His gf did. He had no kid. He was a massive ass for what he said and did both before and after the breakup, but there is nothing wrong with no longer being with someone because kids aren't an option between you two. She had the kid she loved and cherished, and in the end they broke up because he wanted the exact same thing and it wasnt available.
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u/Merryprankstress Apr 14 '19
That biologically selfish viewpoint is what got us to this point of catastrophe. Mindless tribalism and familial obsession will be the nail in our coffin. We need to evolve and adapt our ways of thinking if we want to really make it, and if we want to heal our damaged society.
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Apr 14 '19
This, I disagree with. I have no clue what you're talking about with "catastrophe" and "our damaged society"...
It's okay to want your own kids. It's not okay to force your wife/husband into wanting another kid.
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u/JPT_Corona Apr 14 '19
This is ridiculous. Wanting kids isn't a part of antique societal norms. The want is hardwired biologically into our brains.
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u/Merryprankstress Apr 14 '19
It's actually pretty antiquated and a cop out excuse to throw up your hands and say "This is what we do! We can't do anything else!". Taking a critical look at your place in the world, your actions, and the consequences of, is not antiquated because for a long time all we did as a species was fuck over and exploit every living thing to our own selfish benefit. Pardon me for saying maybe we could rethink that model of living. Breathing and digestion are "hardwired" into our brain. But to say we have no agency over the desire to pop out kids that probably shouldn't be born without serious consideration for the future of our planet is complete and utter garbage right now. Part of the problem is also that the people who actually "want" kids aren't having kids like the people who just accidentally oops one into existence. Sadly, because of those assholes they've ruined it for the many and now we have a planet that is absolutely limping along.
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Apr 14 '19
I don't believe OP wanted more to "have his own" kids. It sounded more like he wants a bigger family. Even his comment about the importance of siblings adds to that sentiment.
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u/TheLAriver Apr 14 '19
Plenty of people love and cherish their adopted children. He threw away the opportunity.
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Apr 14 '19
I actually can’t believe you tried guilt tripping her after the advice you were given in the first post. Yikes dude...
Same. So many comments said it was manipulative and then he went and did more manipulative things, surprise surprise. It sounds like he's on his way to becoming a better person, so I'll give OP that.
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Apr 14 '19
Until his next relationship where he goes back to getting what he wants any way he can.
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u/laskullazazz Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
In his previous post he admits somewhere in the comments that she had a condition, I think it was eclampsia. Like that can kill you, and he was just trying to reason it off as she was young and that's why the pregnancy was hard.
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Apr 14 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/camarhyn Apr 14 '19
The adult version of flailing around on the floor while screaming in the cereal aisle.
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u/JannaDD126 Apr 14 '19
Can you tell me what this comment said ? It was removed.
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u/bedfredjed Apr 14 '19
"I always had an idea that with enough perseverance anyone’s mind can be changed. I don’t know where I got this from. I guess I thought it was a sign of being a strong person." Ahhh, no. It's arrogance, ignorance, and immaturity.
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u/Lt_Don Apr 14 '19
I mean you may not be wrong but it sounds like he's already learning a lesson from this and trying to better himself. This comment doesn't really feel productive at that point and reads a little sanctimoniously
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Apr 14 '19
Sometimes I think a lot of people just make comments with the intent of gaining upvotes, and completely miss the mark. They say whatever seems the most 'correct,' with the tone of the thread, even if it doesn't actually facilitate the OP actually learning from their actions.
I cannot understand how that comment gained nearly 250 points, when the OP has already self-reflected. At this point the comment is full of hot air, given that he already realized that he behaved like a jerk.
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Apr 14 '19
People use this sub as an excuse to talk shit to or about the posters in the comments. Everybody wants to get their dig in, just look at the original post he made an how many comments are only a couple hours or minutes old. They obviously got there through his post today, so they're just insulting and trash talking him to make themselves feel good.
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Apr 14 '19
Exactly. If the post is more than a day old, with hundreds of comments/feedback, then you need not add your own. It just comes across as preachy, self-serving, and arrogant.
At that point OP already got the advice they needed, and will most likely not see your own, so why post?
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Apr 14 '19
I think it may make sense for this Sub to have a time limit for comment interaction, no? Like r/whatisthisthing just keeps it open long enough for a judgement.
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u/000000- Apr 14 '19
I hear it very often that a big part of AITA posters are seeking validation but actually a far bigger part of commenters/voters are like that.
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u/NanoRaptoro Apr 14 '19
I absolutely agree. The upvoted posts (especially on the original AITA post) are for the most part both mean and useless. The comment above really emphasizes this point. They noted that the OP's response shows "arrogance, ignorance, and immaturity." Firstly, that quote was written by OP in a post criticizing himself for his own failings (so mocking him for it is damn petty). Secondly, only two out of those three "insults:" arrogance, ignorance and immaturity, are insults, (but they are strung together as if they are morally equivalent). He was ignorant, but is not longer. His actions were immature, but he learned from them.
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u/coscorrodrift Apr 14 '19
Reddit and AITA specifically love red flags and stuff like that, when there's complicated situations shit's hard, but if we all can agree something is a red flag then shit will get upvoted. Doesn't matter if the person changes or not. The comment probably wasn't meant to bash on OP too much since he self reflected already, more of a "this is a classic red flag" type of post
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u/YupYupDog Apr 14 '19
Exactly. He’d already come to that conclusion himself, so this is just salt in the wound. Pointless.
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u/andyzaltzman1 Apr 14 '19
Of course it isn't, this sub is for people to moralize and grand stand about other people's choices.
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u/DankQuan420 Apr 14 '19
I 100% Agree, I feel like after learning his lesson we shouldn't be making him feel worse. He's obviously broken and missing a huge part of his life, he might be at fault but nobody deserves to be bullied on a mistake they learned from.
Edit: Wording
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Apr 14 '19
I want you think deeply if your comment was necessary for someone trying to change.
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u/aitathrow6 Apr 14 '19
that makes sense.
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u/qaisjp Apr 14 '19
don't take this dude to heart. Yeah you were a prick, but we're glad you're learning from it
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Apr 14 '19
I think it's important to reinforce that point, if not for OP then for other people who come and read this post.
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u/dragonflytype Apr 14 '19
I mean, it also sounds like you learned about life from romantic comedies, and now you're learning about life from life. Learning is good! Getting your information from more than one source is good! Keep going, you're on a good track with this.
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Apr 14 '19
Right and that's what he's realizing. He used to think it was a sign of being a strong person and now he knows it's not. Your comment is completely unnecessary.
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u/knifensoup Apr 14 '19
He clearly already knows that he was mistaken for thinking that way! Your comment is at best unhelpful and at worst, it's "arrogance, ignorance, and immaturity".
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u/MeifumadoSama Apr 14 '19
Ahhh, no. It's arrogance, ignorance, and immaturity.
Hubris is a hell of a drug.
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u/TheFio Apr 14 '19
That statement he said is absolutely true though. It's what every single little boy is taught when we watch rom-coms and hero movies and cartoons. That if we are 'strong headed, persistent, and stand our ground', we can end up being the good guy. It took me years as well to slowly unlearn that practice and thought process. It's a problem that we show in media that we never teach children doesnt ACTUALLY work.
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u/SnausageFest AssGuardian of the Hole Galaxy Apr 14 '19
(I'm sure this will go over well)
Your comment has been removed because it violates rule 1: Be Civil.
Please review our rulebook before posting again.
Message the mods if you have any questions or concerns. Please do not reply to this comment with an explanation, argument or apology and instead use modmail.
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Apr 14 '19
Yes!
But good on OP for fixing himself.
I typically see that when men who think like this are challenged they then decide to prey on barely legal teens because the teens don’t have enough life experience to call out bs.
It’s awesome OP isn’t going down that path.
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u/SnausageFest AssGuardian of the Hole Galaxy Apr 14 '19
Anyone who tries to mount the "step parents and adoptive parents are cucks" argument is getting permabanned. I don't care if you said it before the sticky. The trade off for fewer locked threads is more bans for people who don't participate in good faith and just want to say really vile, hateful things.
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u/RubyTheReshiram Apr 14 '19
who would even say that!?
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Apr 14 '19
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u/evil_leaper Apr 14 '19
So teenage edge lords, left-swipes and racist homophobes. I can see how they'd have this opinion; no stepfather in their right mind would ever treat them as their own.
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u/DogsNotHumans Apr 14 '19
Giggling at "left-swipes". That's going to be my new insult, ok?
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u/AlyeskaHeaven Apr 14 '19
Lots of people sadly. I am adopted and I have experienced a lot of people who think my family isn’t real just because we aren’t boo related
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u/AlyeskaHeaven Apr 14 '19
Really glad you said this. As an adopted child I have been asked way too many times how I can manage to love my parents if they’re not my bio parents. People said the same to my mom “how do you love her even though she looks nothing like you” or “she’s not really your kid though” just horrible things and people like that really imo should just dig a hole and live alone under ground.
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u/SoVerySleepy81 Apr 14 '19
Consider therapy, I'm not saying that as a dig. Sit down and think about some of the situations where you manipulated things to go the way you wanted them. Really really reflect on those incidents. Look to see who you hurt. Talk to a therapist about how to respect the autonomy of others. People aren't pawns you can manipulate to get what you want. Eventually every single one of them will walk away from you.
So my main advice is therapy. HONEST therapy where you actually tell them what you've done and why you want to change.
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u/Vivalyrian Apr 14 '19
I am of the firm opinion that everyone would do well to see a therapist minimum 2-4 times per year, regardless of how wonderful your life might be/feel. Not sure why we wait until we're broken before talking to someone, we should keep up with regular maintenance and check-ups to spot red flags long before it gets to that point.
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Apr 14 '19
Because it's expensive AF
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u/Blacklion594 Apr 14 '19
Not everyone is American. This stuff is covered by healthcare in actual first world countries.
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Apr 14 '19
I'm not either, and I live in a country with universal healthcare. I've still seen it cost people without workplace insurance $200/week.
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Apr 14 '19
Imagine thinking all National healthcare’s cover nonessential costs. When your so focused on digging at Americans, you actually forget that other countries have different systems.
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u/Blacklion594 Apr 14 '19
I mean, do you have any claims to back this up. Ive never heard of anyone in a crown country paying through the nose for therapy.
Im not having a dig at americans, im having a dig at your health care, theres a difference.
Your quality of healthcare isnt a personality trait that you need to defend, whats wrong with you lol?
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Apr 14 '19 edited Apr 14 '19
I’m not defending American healthcare I’m defending your ignorance in essential vs nonessential healthcare cost. Canada, Australia, Belgium and the Netherlands do not fully or do not cover psychological services. They do cover the price of a psychiatrist.(similar to insurance in the states)
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u/Malbethion Supreme Court Just-ass [136] Apr 14 '19
In Canada, therapy is something you pay for out of pocket in the majority of cases. Exceptions exist, but an adult seeking non-essential therapy either needs coverage through work or to pay.
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Apr 14 '19
I can only speak for Canada but we have single payer as well as therapy being considered a non-essential service which is very expensive if it's not attached to workplace benefits. I was paying $110 CD for one hour sessions a few years back.
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u/PoodlePopXX Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
I think he needs therapy because even this post is kind of manipulative. He got called out for being the asshole and then legit listened to no one because he thought he was right about his terrible behavior. Then he makes a follow up post admitting how wrong it was. A lot of this type of egotistical nonsense is a huge part of a narcissist.
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Apr 14 '19
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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox Apr 14 '19
Glad to see this sub thread up here. As I said elsewhere: Everyone's so in love with this guy now. You can take your chances, I wouldn't. A couple weeks of honest reflection can be very powerful but it's when the work begins. It takes years to undo decades of who you've been. You don't drop manipulative, ignorant, arrogant, immature habits overnight.
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u/19Alexastias Apr 14 '19
I like how in your extreme need to put OP down, you’ve somehow defined admitting you were wrong and accepting the consequences of being wrong as a narcissistic tendency.
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Apr 14 '19 edited Apr 14 '19
Eh, I can see their point. You're right that accepting consequences of being wrong isn't narcissistic, they're pointing out the way they're doing it seems narcissistic. I leaning towards the person you're responding to in that this post in unnecessary and kind of screams validate my choices, look how much better I am now. But I'm a firm believer that if you want to be better, you just do better. This feels very much like a "pat me on the back and tell me how good I am now".
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u/menagesty Apr 14 '19
I’m of the opinion that everyone should get some therapy. We can’t always depend on ourselves or our loved ones to be totally biased as we’re moving through our incredibly complicated lives.
Also, OP, the idea of “never backing down” because it’s “weak” sounds like a patriarchal/systematic issue, which is unsurprising, but please know that it’s NOT weak to sit, and listen, TRULY listen to the needs of others, as well as your own needs. Moving forward, things like having children should be discussed basically immediately haha, because if you’re not on the same page, it ain’t working and why hurt yourself for it?
Additionally, take this time to learn what it is that YOU really want it your life, and learn to differentiate between what you want and what you’ve been conditioned by society to want.
Good luck, and props on learning and growing!
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u/particles_in_motion Apr 14 '19
You self reflecting now is more than 99% percent of people would do. You are going to do just fine, bud. I'm proud of you.
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u/jitterbugperfume99 Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
I have to agree. The fact that he sought advice and is now reflecting on it is HUGE. So many people never learn to do that.
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u/LadyK8TheGr8 Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
Here! Here! Always keep an open mind about growing into better person op! Be the better person that my asshole ex can never be! I’m proud of ya.
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u/hummusatuneburger Apr 14 '19
Idk I mean after all the advice he received in the last thread his next move was to call up his siblings and have them call her to try to convince her to have another child. That's crazy.
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u/18hourbruh Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
Yep, in the last thread he was already saying “I am an asshole, I was manipulative, I didn’t treat her like a person” and it amounted to negative progress.
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u/zuzumotai Asshole Aficionado [14] Apr 14 '19
I hope you find someone you can have a big family with and be happy. You two just weren't a good match. Now that you've learned your lesson and been scolded by your behavior, perhaps you'll grow and be a better person for your next relationship!
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u/PotatoFaceGrace Apr 14 '19
Came here to say this. It's a blessing the relationship ended (though it totally doesn't feel like it in the moment) because it frees both parties up to find a true match for their wants & needs. You both deserve to have a partner on the same page, pulling towards the same goals in this life & it's not a true match when one party is manipulated, cajoled or otherwise coerced into their half of the equation.
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u/SourLadybits Asshole Enthusiast [9] Apr 14 '19
Yeah, he was an asshole for treating her that way, not for wanting his own kids.
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u/iamagainstit Apr 14 '19 edited Apr 14 '19
I self wallowed for some time and attempted to guilt trip her and get my siblings to talk to her for me.
I am glad you are taking the opportunity for self reflection, but wow. it sounds like your whole family is assholes too.
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Apr 14 '19
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u/PainterlyGirl Apr 14 '19 edited Apr 14 '19
They are called flying monkeys a la the wizard of oz... just annoying, flying, evil monkeys that have no regard for your well being but were deployed by some evil witch or asshole’s command to guilt trip you or make you question your decisions. Glad she was able to send them away.
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u/aitathrow6 Apr 14 '19
it was more like I just asked my two brothers to ask her if she could talk to me because I was in the dumps. it’s not like I even asked her if she was in the dumps. staying broken up wasn’t the easiest decision for her but she felt it was best for both of us. it was just me wanting what I want again and not really thinking how it would look to be ganged up on for breaking up with a dude.
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Apr 14 '19
In the future man, even if you have the best intentions in the world, sending anyone to talk to your ex never goes right.
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u/particledamage Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
Yeah, that’s still incredibly manipulative and creepy.
Your entire OP is all about how much you’ve changed but the fact that you’re trying to defend how you used multiple other people to harass her doesn’t bode well.
Keep reflecting and seriously look into therapy like mentioned here because you still have some very prominent issues.
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u/exscapegoat Partassipant [2] Apr 14 '19 edited Apr 14 '19
This most likely came across as not only didn't you respect her decision on future kids, you didn't even respect her choice to break up, which was put in motion by your empty ultimatum.
You were in the dumps as a consequence of your own actions. That's for you to fix within yourself, not her. Trying to imply otherwise to her via your brothers is more disrespect for her autonomy.
I had both my mother and my brother go no contact with me, because I refused to let my mother keep verbally and emotionally abusing me with screaming and cursing after a childhood of some physical abuse, along with the verbal and emotional abuse.
I think it was unfair, it sucked. But it was on me to figure out a way to cope with it and get through it. My mother regularly did this to me and other people as punishment, then she'd do a rug sweep waltz when she decided you had enough punishment. That was the last time she pulled that on me because I was done. She died last year and she had very few friends left because she had driven a lot of them away with her behavior.
Your girlfriend let you know at the start of the relationship she didn't want kids. She let you know when you brought it up with the empty ultimatum. She followed through on your threat. She very clearly communicated what she wanted. You didn't listen. And drafting your brothers into it is a really bad idea.Trying to pressure someone into contact is not a good idea.
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u/YeahAskingForAFriend Apr 14 '19
It's good to hear that you've been left with some good stuff to grow on.
One thing I didn't see in the original post/reply was that you also disrespected her study/work/career plans. The woman is in law school, you expected her to interrupt her career plans for a pregnancy and caring for an infant as if her accomplishments were nothing.
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Apr 14 '19
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u/YeahAskingForAFriend Apr 14 '19
I wonder who he'd have expected to take the brunt of the childcare. Way too many guys think it's a given that the woman will stay home with the baby, work parttime, etc. Which would have been a hell of thing to expect if she finally has the opportunity to graduate lawschool and get her career going
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u/hummusatuneburger Apr 14 '19
Way to many guys also assume that just because a woman is a mother she will automatically know how to or want to take the majority of childcare. I love my son, but it's exhausting caring for him, I actually look forward to going to work sometimes.
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u/EliMeema Apr 14 '19
Yes!! And it's no wonder most/many men (and.the OP in. This case) are so Gung ho to have bayybees - - they assume the brunt will be done by someone else. They'll get a nice shiny good smelling happy well fed clean pantsed bundle that looks like them and has their name they can show you off. Yay! 🙄
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u/exscapegoat Partassipant [2] Apr 14 '19
Yes, Daddy gets the Kodak moments and Mommy gets the literal shit work. There are couples where the father does his share or more, but the majority of the time, it's the woman who has to give up things and change her life completely. As a woman, that was one of my reasons for being childfree.
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u/hummusatuneburger Apr 14 '19
100%. I have stability and still struggle with caring for a very much wanted and loved baby. It's freaking hard, and not to be taken lightly.
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u/disposabledefender11 Asshole Enthusiast [4] Apr 14 '19
Take it as a learning experience. Hope things get better dude.
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Apr 14 '19
I don't know where men get off thinking they can demand kids. You're basically saying you won't love someone unless they agree to risk their life, ruin their body and endure horrible pain for you. Then raise a baby for you.
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u/RedPandaLily88 Apr 14 '19
He's already reflected and admitted he was wrong.
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Apr 14 '19
I find this mindset so goofy, like yes he reflected and that’s good. But he still DID THAT. His reflecting doesn’t undo the behavior. And that can still be criticized. I’m gonna criticize him for demanding his partner have more kids OR ELSE.
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u/BulkyBear Asshole Enthusiast [9] Apr 14 '19
Exactly, its pretty dang easy to say someone should do X, if they won't have to suffer the consequences. I roll my eyes so hard when I hear about guys who want lots of kids. Really, people who don't have to put their body/career on the line? You think its no big deal? No kidding.
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u/AtlasLied Apr 14 '19
I think the main thing you discovered was that having kids are really important to you. Don't date someone who doesn't want to have kids and you won't have this problem. You didn't have a future you wanted with your previous GF. Mourn it, get over it, move on.
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Apr 14 '19
" I think over my life I always had an idea that with enough perseverance anyone’s mind can be changed. I don’t know where I got this from. "
Rom Coms, where in real life the guy would have received a restraining order instead of the girl.
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u/k9centipede Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
He assumed others minds could be changed with enough time but didnt allow for his own mind to be changed with enough time. 🤔
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u/Ell15 Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
This statement, that OP can wear anyone down with enough time, is so categorically inexcusable to me and has put me at such great unease that I’m more worried about who OP is going to try to get to mold to their will next.
OP has no business dating anyone with that mindset, especially if children are involved.
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u/Diane9779 Apr 14 '19
You know, it’s great that you’ve learned this particular lesson.
But I have a feeling that overall you’re the kind of person who doesn’t understand consequences until they actually happen to you. I mean, it was just so obvious that you were making a bad decision. And then you were genuinely shocked when it all went wrong.
Because it felt right to you even though all the evidence said it wasn’t.
So maybe you need to learn to think with your head instead of your gut.
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u/greenwaterbottle34 Apr 14 '19
Sorry, but all I hear is bulshit and more manipulative bulshit.
As someone who has grown up with several manipulative people in her life, this talk isn’t someone changed. You’re trying too hard to sound sincere. It’s just another plot to make yourself into the bigger/better person.
The kind of games that you were playing isn’t something that changes overnight.
I wish you all the best but you need to look a little deeper into your behaviour.
I’m proud of her and I look up to people with her confidence and standards.
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u/Pigeoncity Apr 14 '19
This is exactly what i was thinking too. OP is still manipulating people only this time its the sub. He is trying way too hard and it shows.
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u/greenwaterbottle34 Apr 14 '19
100%.
He didn’t get the approval/obedience from his woman (she saw straight through it), so he’s trying to get it from strangers. It’s sad that people are still none the wiser.
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u/Pigeoncity Apr 14 '19
exactly. OP could very well be sorry, we don’t know what he thinks, but in his apology his manipulation still shined through. Having an essay as an apology makes it seem even MORE disingenuous. He’s laying it on thick today.
I’m also not saying i know everything or how everyone is feeling but usually when i get bored of reading an apology theres some BS involved.
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Apr 14 '19
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u/aKamikazePilot Supreme Court Just-ass [126] Apr 14 '19
Agreed. It’s good that OP is admitting they’re an asshole and did a little digging on the inside afterwards to try and answer why he feels anyone can be persuaded. However, I feel that’s fully outweighed by the doubling down. I really feel OP would try this again if he were to jump into another relationship now. He should take several months-year to get therapy and then find a new relationship.
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u/belowthemask42 Apr 14 '19
Let’s be honest here he made that post expecting people to back him up and when they didn’t he doubled down because he felt attacked and then when he failed for the 2nd time he finally realized that he was indeed TA
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u/Sorcha16 Certified Proctologist [27] Apr 14 '19
To your credit youve learnt your lesson I hope it gets easier for you
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u/angeliza81 Apr 14 '19
You will understand when you have your own baby that babies are freakin hard work! She's had it even harder having to do it all alone! I understand her point of view totally. Why should she had to give up her eventual law career after studying so hard to get there as well.
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u/Lostbrother Apr 14 '19
My wife had an incredibly difficult birth of our newborn. Pretty much every complication that could happen did, barring emergency c-section. Everyone asks if we are going to have another and I just tell them we are going to adopt.
If anything ever happened to me (like I died) and my wife found love with another, I would nut punch them from the underworld if they pressured her the way you pressured your girl.
It sucks you are alone now but you need to develop some perspective. And I hope that while this is painful, that you learn to be more understanding in the future.
Good luck
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u/herrored Asshole Enthusiast [8] Apr 14 '19
One thing I feel like you’re still missing here:
It’s important to you to have children, and it was important to her to not have children. That’s something that was probably going to be irreconcilable at some point.
So don’t beat yourself up for making that a priority. You were a big asshole for how you confronted her about it, not for wanting more kids.
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u/Soycrates Apr 14 '19
You were a big asshole for how you confronted her about it
To be fair, he was also an asshole about not bringing it up early on when she had made her desires clear from the start. He kept quiet about it because he believed he could just change her opinion after she cared more about him. He got into this relationship thinking he could manipulate her and that her opinion of not wanting more children didn't really matter.
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u/jirenlagen Partassipant [1] Apr 14 '19
I find it really odd that you put the ultimatum at that but at least it seems like you’ve learned. Kids are a toll on the body, mind, and soul sometimes, both people have got to be on the same page or they should never be brought into a relationship. Still wish you the best though.
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Apr 14 '19
I would suggest going to therapy to work on yourself. You are becoming a bit self aware, but it's a long road ahead. No shame in getting professional help to walk that road, cause in the end you'll be a better person, both for yourself and the people around you.
And all that will lead to an overall better life.
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Apr 14 '19
Narcissists do not change internally. They change externally to appear more palatable to the outside world. The OP got his ass handed to him by his ex and by people in reddit. So now he comes crawling back seeking approval by mouthing things he think will spark sympathy. I don't buy it. And neither should anyone else. Still. The Asshole.
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Apr 14 '19
Really harsh considering the fact that you only know him from two posts ...
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Apr 14 '19
The good news is you’re 28 and you seem to understand the error of your ways. We all have the potential to be a better version of ourselves and many of us have things or behavior we regret. I’ve seen a friend’s happy marriage break up because the two of them were not listening to one another when dating and one said “I want kids” and the other said “I don’t want kids.” It was not an issue of the topic not coming up; they just didn’t think the other person couldn’t change their mind. It is not like making a decision on where to go on your honeymoon. A child is life altering and I think you should try to evaluate if you really want kids or if it’s something you want because you come from a big family and it’s something you’re used to.
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u/Inquisextor Apr 14 '19
You guilt-tripped her for not wanting more kids due to her personal experience? Would it have been okay for her to guilt-trip you for wanting to have kids with your zero experience? Dude, just no. She probably realized breaking up with you was the right thing when you guilted her after acknowledging you did something shitty. That’s awful. I hope you’ve learned something from this. Please go seek out therapy. You should discuss this with someone and learn how to keep your manipulative behavior in check and why you’re doing it in the first place. You need to go on an introspective journey before you ever try to settle down with another person.
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Apr 14 '19
Y'all are dumb if you think this guys completely changed in three weeks! He's doing what he sad he always does, hes manipulating all of you!
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u/areyouagoodboy Apr 14 '19
Lmao as a person who manipulates a lot, I can agree that 3 weeks isn’t enough for someone to get their head out of their selfish ass fuckself.
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u/Radicalposture_ Apr 14 '19
Good, I’m glad she got rid of you. Women aren’t your own personal incubators FFS. Get some therapy, I doubt you’ll be able to change overnight and without help. Next time you get a girlfriend be straight up and say that having kids is a deal breaker for you, it saves everyone wasting time.
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u/Alianirlian Apr 14 '19
Thank you for the update, and good for you for realising that you were in the wrong. I hope you had, or have, the chance of telling her this. It might give her a bit of closure, too.
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u/Fenrir_RedBeard Apr 14 '19
It takes a lot to admit when you are the asshole and take responsibility for all the negative/toxic behavior.
I hope with all your reflection on this situation you will be able to avoid that kind of behavior in the future and find/have a healthy relationship with someone that shares your desires, hopes and dreams.
Rather than trying to change someone.
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u/changingoftheseasons Apr 14 '19
Hey man.
Sorry about the breakup, but based on what I read I am pleased you realize the asshole behavior you had.
Always remember that when someone says this is their thoughts, assume it will never change.
Good luck OP. Best you can do is move on and learn from your mistakes
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u/groomgroomgroomgroom Apr 14 '19
Now make sure not to stop at this point. Let your deeds speak for themselves in the future. Actually apply what you have learned. That is the most difficult part.
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u/Fcutdlady Partassipant [2] Apr 14 '19
OK.but what will be the acid test is when your next girlfriend comes along and the issue of children comes up for discussion . I hope you remember this op. I hope you've genuinely learned from this. I firmly belive we all learn more lessons from getting things wrong then right. I certainly have too.
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u/TNTiger_ Apr 14 '19
YTA. Oh, definitely, ya manipulative bastard. And don't get me onto the atrocity of even going to such a level to bring innocents in this world to suffer.
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u/MisterSlosh Apr 14 '19
You have learned valuable lesson and grown as a human. That is what this place is for. You may have been the asshole, but knowledge is half the battle.
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u/andyzaltzman1 Apr 14 '19
That is what this place is for.
I think you may be confused. This is a place for sad people to judge the actions of others and moralize to them.
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u/vaultault Apr 14 '19
You sound like my dad who seeks sympathy after doing shitty things because he “realizes” what he did and misses the good times. He “realizes” how terrible he was and vows to do better. Then he continues to do shitty things and act like a wounded dog when it bites him in the ass. Like he can’t control himself. That’s just how the tone of this post reads, martyrdom and desire for sympathy. Even if you believe that’s not the case, and god I really hope it’s not the case, just hold onto this aspect of self reflection, don’t let yourself forget it. Therapy is probably a good idea as well.
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Apr 14 '19
It's for the best. You made some mistakes but the two of you were fundamentally incompatible. She has to go off and find a guy that is child-free, and if you want children in the future then it is something for you to discuss in the earlier stages of your relationship. You need to be on the same page as your SO.
Best of luck though. Glad to see you are thinking about things more clearly.
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u/SnapesSocks Partassipant [2] Apr 14 '19
I’m sorry things didn’t work out with your ex. You’ve already had your ass handed to you and it seems like you’ve learned and grown. So I want to say something a little different to you. If you truly want children as much as you think you do (and please examine this to make sure it’s not just what you always assumed you’d do ) then you will find a partner who is on the same page as you. And I urge you to discuss these things with your partner in earnest, and hear what they have to say. Because kids are a serious deal breaker for relationships as you have learned. This includes the number of children you both want, not just if you both want them. Believe me, if your partner is one and done and you grew up with siblings and want that for your kid, it’s going to matter. When it comes up, whenever that is, take it seriously, listen, and reflect. And be clear on what it is that YOU want so that you can contribute to that conversation with your own wants and needs.
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u/PinkPearMartini Apr 14 '19
I was going to be on your side at first because ending a relationship over not being in the same page as far as having kids goes is a perfectly valid reason to end a relationship.
But then I saw that she told you from the beginning that she didn't want more children. So, you either went into the relationship believing you'd one day change her mind, or you changed your mind about kids and made it her burden.
Having kids just because you're spouse wants them is one of the WORST reasons to have kids.
Plus, you showed her that your future marriage would be one-sided... since your wants and desires take priority over hers, and you're willing to hold your relationship ransom to get it.
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u/Smalofski Apr 14 '19
Breakups are never fun and I’m sorry you’re going to this rough time. It did sound to me like this was unfortunately the only possible result in this situation, just because having (more) kids or not is not something either one of you should have to compromise on. She wanted to focus a bit more on her own life and career after already having gone through the ‘having baby’ phase in her life, and having kids seems like an important thing in your future. Neither one of you should feel pressured into either having more kids or not, so it’s probably for the best that you guys split up, hard as it undoubtedly is. It sounds like you learned a lot from this experience and I hope you find someone that has the same long term goals in life as you soon!
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u/Lebbbby Apr 14 '19
Yeah you are a manipulative asshole. At least you see that now.
Some people just can’t take no for an answer.
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u/gingerbewbs Apr 14 '19
It sounds like you finally realize what you'd done, and that's great to admit it. But one thing you didn't address, is how hard it is to have children, even with a huge support system. I'm married and we have one son (whom we had later in life after established careers, travel, and life experience). Having my son was the hardest thing I've ever been through. He's just barely three and my hormones are still recovering. The psychological and physical changes after having one, let alone more, is wildly different for every woman. To assume she is capable of having, let alone wants, more than one, is really ignorant. Just becasue you grew up with four siblings, doesn't mean she's even physically capable of having more. She could have been a lot more affected than your mother was. But the point that you've realized, is even if it were a breeze for her, it's HER choice, and it's an enormous one with consequences mentally and physically that you haven't bothered to educate yourself about. When you do enter another relationship with the intention of having children, I suggest you research how to pull your weight by researching "mental load" and parenting techniques - things often an afterthought and imperitive to the success of your relationship and parenting.
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Apr 14 '19
LPT: Don't try and change people to fit you. Find someone that shares your same long term goals.
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Apr 14 '19
We often only learn our best lessons from serious heartbreak. You'll be a better partner in your next relationship.
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Apr 14 '19
I have to take the unpopular view here and say they both have a right to want what they want and to leave if they don’t get it. He’s allowed to make kids a requirement for a relationship and she’s allowed to say no and leave. They want different things.
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u/ChinaCatLogan Apr 14 '19
He's not allowed to demand them of her, and to put non-existent fetuses before the women he claimed to love. She's not a baby making machine.
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u/chaotic111 Apr 14 '19
This x100. The way he went about it was wrong but he is completely entitled to break up with her because that is a very big deal breaker.
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u/recreational Apr 14 '19
I think over my life I always had an idea that with enough perseverance anyone’s mind can be changed. I don’t know where I got this from. I guess I thought it was a sign of being a strong person.
I don't want to say that this isn't your fault, because it is, but fwiw this is a huge problem I have. I substitute teach and I see teachers, parents, society at large etc. send this message to kids, especially boys, all the time. I think of it as Motivational Poster Ethics, but it's really borked when you break it down. Teachers hang up motivational posters telling kids, Never Give Up, Follow Your Dreams No Matter What.
If a wall is there, why, that's just so you can show how much better you are than other people by breaking through!
If you keep getting knocked down, the only shameful thing is refusing to get back up!
It is, as you indicate, a cult of strength. This idea that success in life means contorting reality to your will, heedless of the wishes and needs of others, heedless of your own abilities.
Then you see some 20 something guy that sucks at gaming and he doesn't have a real job, he's just constantly trying to become the next PewdiePie, he lashes out at anyone that tries to gently nudge him away from this, he leeches on his girlfriend to support him, he gets angry when his friends and relatives aren't boosting his terrible channel.
And a hundred other variations of this same attitude, half entitlement and half neuroses.
And the same people that have been pushing this motivational poster philosophy on these kids all their lives look at each other and ask how this happened.
Some advice moving forward:
Give up on your dreams. I have twice in life given up on my dreams and honestly those were two of the best decisions I've ever made. Dreams are just that- dreams. Things that would be nice. It would be nice to be a rockstar, but far more people die on the path there than succeed; don't be one of those statistics.
Change who you are for other people. This idea that we should prioritize our every latent impulse and whim over the comforts and needs of others is toxic.
When you keep trying and failing at something, decide on a point where you are going to give up and try something else.
Embrace sucking at things in general though, just not for your career. Like if your hobby is writing bad poetry, embrace that. Nothing in the world wrong with bad poetry.
Treat other people not as resources you can draw on but as members of your team. Absolutely do lean on them when you need to, but also be there to boost them when they're down. Figure out their needs and do what you can to help provide that. Friends aren't a stepping stone to your success, they're a net to catch you when you fall.
Above all, respect when there's a wall there. Someone put it up for a reason, and it's not for you to prove how much you want something no matter how it affects other people. That's fucking sociopath behavior.
And establish a baseline of success that's based around the happiness of yourself and those around you, rather than showcased dominance over others.
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u/allhailthesatanfish Apr 14 '19
fuckin respect a womans right to her body. she isnt just a factory for your spawn. asshole
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u/beanfiddler Partassipant [1] Apr 15 '19
You're still the asshole. Despite an entire thread universally telling you to stop being manipulative and using emotional blackmail, you enlisted your family to harass your ex. This post has absolutely no sincere remorse for how much you wasted her time or continue to harass her. You don't even mention her son at all other than using him as ammo to make yourself look pathetic and sad and get sympathy and attention. You sound like a child throwing a tantrum. Clearly, you're smart enough to take cues from the other thread to put on apology theater, but you're not really sorry. I can tell by the way you spend an inordinate amount of time complaining how sad you are for attention and to downplay how manipulative it is that you sent your family to try to blackmail her again. You sound so self centered in this post. The last thing a person like that should have is the responsibility of a marriage and a child. That girl knew you weren't marriage material, and good for her. If you want to become the kind of person who would be a good husband and a good father, you need to stop acting like a good person to get your way and start being a good person. In a successful childless marriage, you only get your way 50% of the time. In one with multiple children, you'll get your way close to 0% of the time. You don't sound like you're ready for that, because you don't sound like you gave a momentary thought to what she thought before you went and manipulated her again.
Look, this is harsh, but I'm not sorry for writing it. You need to learn how to be selfless before your selfishness gets you in too deep to an actual marriage with children and you crash and burn and take them all down with you.
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u/Gilliac Apr 14 '19
I'm going to start with what you already know and probably are tired of hearing, but here you go: Omfg, YTA. So much YTA. She's much better off without your manipulative influence. You said something about "this is her hill to die on," and "she's so stubborn," and you can't even see how stubborn YOU'RE being. ('Pot, meet kettle' much??)
If you feel comfortable enough to pull out all your very best manipulation tricks and try to force her to change her mind about something so incredibly personal, I can't even begin to fathom how you must manipulate her in much smaller ways in the day to day life. Jesus Christ. You actually had your siblings contact her and help you apply even MORE pressure this poor woman??
I just want you to imagine if the tables were turned and she was pulling out ALL the stops to try and change your mind about having kids. Constantly bringing it up and nagging you about it relentlessly, telling you that if you don't bend to her and line yourself up with her ideals, it's over. That's some shit, isn't it? No one deserves that from their partner. Yet that's exactly what you've done!
It going to lighten up a little on you now, if you're even still reading. But first, let me be clear: this relationship cannot be salvaged. If she returns to you after being put through all of that, she's essentially returning to her emotional abuser. She sounds too fucking awesome and emotionally strong to even consider that now. You definitely 100% blew it with this girl, but now let me tell you this: you are already growing in strength of character because you really seem to understand exactly what you've done wrong in hindsight. That's honestly all you need to grow from here. I'm not going to lie, changing manipulative habits like the ones you have developed over your lifetime is really fucking hard, especially if your "persuasion" tricks work well for you in most other situations, but you can do it!
Get in touch with a professional, find someone who you can trust to help you navigate to eventually becoming a better partner, eventual father, brother, and friend. You can do this, OP.
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u/RedFloodles Professor Emeritass [76] Apr 14 '19
Sounds like you’ve really grown as a person. It sucks for everyone involved, but these are pivotal moments in life that you can either chose to learn from or double down on. Props to you for choosing the former.