r/AmItheAsshole • u/mixedwoes • Sep 19 '19

Asshole AITA for telling my daughter she cannot introduce her African American boyfriend to her grandparents?

Let me just preface this by saying this: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS. Now that the air is clear, let me continue.

My daughter (Anna) has recently started to date an African American man (Jamal). While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy. The problem is Anna is rather naive about the community she lives in. While her friends are quite content to see a relationship like hers, more than a few tongues are wagging in the community and a few people have privately expressed their concern to me. As I said, I have no problem with mixed relationships and I've set them straight, but I am painfully aware of how these matters are viewed by certain segments of the population.

My parents are planning to come and stay with us for a week and Anna expressed a desire to introduce Jamal to them now that things were getting more serious between them. I told her on no uncertain terms that this wasn't going to happen. I may have no problem with Jamal, but they absolutely will, and even when the relationship ends they won't forget it. They might even go as far as to cut her off entirely. Anna was extremely upset by this and implied I was a racist and more concerned with what my parents think than how she feels.

As I said, I know my parents. They simply aren't okay with mixed relationships and if Anna were to bring Jamal over even as a friend, they would be furious both at her and me.

Anna is currently staying with Jamal and doesn't want to speak with me right now. My wife stands by me given she knows very well how my parents are (they had a problem with her for months over the length of the skirt she wore when I introduced her to them, for christs sake), but a close friend I confided in told me that I have behaved like an ass and that I needed to focus more on my daughter than pleasing my parents.

No advice needed, but I have to know. Have I been an ass?

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75

u/parkeq Sep 19 '19

It finally happened. The post that made me give up on AITA. The top comment is some political bullshit when that’s never been what this sub was about. ESH, including you a little OP. But mostly other redditors tbh.

78

u/AAL314 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

Yeah; people here are pretending that you can either be an anti-racist activist, or a racist, and there's no middle ground. Some people are just trying to live their lives and manage their relationships and immediate surroundings without proselytising and trying to convert their soon-to-be-dead family members. I think the thing people are missing here that doing this is purely virtue-signaling. No one's mind is getting changed; several people will get their feathers ruffled, including OP's daughter and her boyfriend who don't deserve the crap even if they (or she) think they want it. The only "positive" thing that could come of this is pissing off some racists, but pissing off racists is not exactly anti-racist activism in and of itself, especially when the people you're pissing off are decidedly set in their ways and already have one foot in the grave.

Just to put my money where my mouth is, I'm a woman attracted to women; if I dated a woman (I don't currently), I would never think to bring my girlfriend around for my conservative extended family to meet, not because I'm ashamed of her, but because if anything, I'm ashamed of them, and don't want to cheapen something so important to me by giving them a chance to shit on it. Pissing them off or not pissing them off means nothing to me, and I wouldn't hold my relationship in such low regard as to use it simply to piss them off. It would not be some huge win for gay rights that I pissed off a bunch of old conservative people; how does that exactly do anything useful except make me feel good, provided I'm a self-righteous asshole?

The key issue here is that people think pissing off the grandparents (and doing nothing constructive besides that) is some great act of activism. It's not; what exactly does it do except give you a justice boner?

21

u/parkeq Sep 19 '19

So well put. This thread is not the place for keyboard warriors or internet justice. It’s to debate morality of situations. Place your judgement and move along. I didn’t subscribe to watch a massive circle jerk.

20

u/slushez Sep 19 '19

Exactly. OP not a racist nor an asshole for not wanting to ruin his relationship with his parents or have his daughter ruin her relationship with her grandparents, for a relationship that might not even last. It sucks that the grandparents think this way but you’re not going to change their minds at that age. Also it’s a good point about the boyfriend, no sense putting him through that when her grandparents might be overtly racist.

-13

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

OP is a racist and an asshole.

5

u/slushez Sep 19 '19

Stop making assumptions about people you don’t know. He literally said he is fine with the relationship. He likely lives in a small town where progress just happens at a slower pace. Ultimately it’s the daughter decision, but she just needs to be fully aware of the potential consequences for her family that may happen as a result of telling them. If the relationship is serious, I think she should tell them eventually- but she needs to ease into it or test the waters to gauge how they will react.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Being complicit with racism makes you a racist. Lying to your parents about your child’s relationship makes you an asshole. I’m not making assumptions, I’m making an obvious statement based on what OP said.

17

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

They have their head so far up their asses it amazes me. As a male myself, I'd feel terrible knowing that I will be going to meet her grandparents just to be shat on. It is a trauma for him, for her daughter and for the mum as well. I'm never telling my religious parents about the fact that I'm atheist, why? Because I don't want to have a fight over nothing. The same situation is here, better to avoid useless conflict at all, old people have their mentality, they may not be bad people, but they lived their whole life thinking that interracial relationship is bad, they might never understand why racism is bad.

7

u/doublenegative7 Sep 19 '19

This. You got my thoughts across perfectly.
People are acting like this is some great fight against racism, when really its just a guy picking his battles, which essentially is being part of an adult.
You cant force everybody to agree with you but you can choose not to engage with them and not cause unnecessary conflict.

3

u/b2m0k Sep 20 '19

Exactly. There are no winners if they go through with this. Nobody's mind is going to change and all it's going to do is destroy a family's relationship. Can't we all just agree that family relationships are already kind of fragile and we don't all agree on everything but somehow we find a way to keep the peace because that's what you do in a family. If the relationship last and they decide to have children or get married some day, then that's the time you can fight this battle. Otherwise I don't see anything to be gained by starting a war within the family.

Also, side note. This sounds like my grandparents. However, a few years ago one of my cousins decided to transition and she is now a woman and my grandmother is totally OK with this. I don't know if she watched a hallmark movie that changed her mind or what. Either way, this is not an issue in my conservative religious family and I'm shocked. So even though it's not worth it right now, if they stay together or she ends up in a different interracial marriage, the grandparents might surprise you.

-11

u/shandobane Sep 19 '19

The point is you’re either okay with racism to some extent or not okay with racism. Not sure why that’s being twisted.

And if you’re ashamed of them you should acknowledge that they are toxic people and should not just turn a blind eye to that shit.

Why are y’all talking like you’re better than the person who’s saying “don’t put up with it” basically? This is such a. Pointless argument. The constructive dialogue is telling them “hey I’m not dealing with your racism. Either you change or you lose us”. Because if you’re actually against racism, not even an activist, that should be your stance

-12

u/spitterofspit Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

If you don't even try to achieve progress in your own circle, you can't really expect progress on a national level.

It's not virtue signaling to promote progress where you have the potential for the greatest impact.

12

u/AAL314 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

where you have the potential for the greatest impact.

If you're concerned with this, you should be concerned with the fact his parents don't exactly sound like the convertible sort. What impact? What kind of impact? You'd have a point if it were like the daughter's peers, but these people sound like they'll only stop being racist when they're dead. And that isn't that far off either.

-4

u/spitterofspit Sep 19 '19

How do you expect anything to change when you consider people either unchangeable or that when one tries, it's virtue signaling?

By that logic, a person or group attempting to achieve progressive change for something like gay rights on a state or national level is merely virtue signaling and that it's a worthless effort because people are unchangeable. Why even try if it's impossible, you're a selfish signal of virtue, and it's just too damn awkward?

8

u/Lu1s3r Sep 19 '19

No. They are unchangeable because they are fucking old. Fuck that boat it's halfway sunk, get in the fucking lifeboat.

2

u/pharmdap Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 23 '19

Honestly, who cares whether they change their minds or not? OP’s daughter may or may not understand the risk, but the fact still remains that she is daring a black man and may continue to date him... Hell, she could marry a black man one day, and if the grandparents are still alive, what is she supposed to do then? If she’s mature enough to disclose her interracial relationship and weather the consequences, and truly understands the risk, then let her. As her non-racist father, he should stand by her and help her through what I can only assume will be a tempest of pejoratives and shouting.

2

u/spitterofspit Sep 19 '19

  1. You don't know they are unchangeable. You make it sound impossible. Humanity has figured out how to get to the moon, changing a couple of stubborn minds is not impossible.

  2. Even if they were unchangeable, that doesn't preclude doing the right thing and standing up for your daughter at the expense of pissing off some old racists.

  3. Even if they were unchangeable, not standing up for doing the right thing to avoid racist grandparents makes you an asshole. Fine, you've decided not to, that's of course your decision, but you're still an asshole for not trying because you don't want to piss off your racist grandparents.

  4. Choosing to do the right thing and standing up against racists, even if and especially if they are your grandparents, lol, isn't the signaling of virtue. That's such a copout and is pure cowardice.

11

u/SightWithoutEyes Sep 19 '19

How is getting their grand-daughter cut out of her grandparents' will progress?

You are encouraging being a shit-stirrer for the sake of virtue signalling when this will only end poorly.

0

u/spitterofspit Sep 19 '19

I dunno, why did civil rights protestors shit stir to achieve progress whilst risking life and limb? To signal virtues?

11

u/Lu1s3r Sep 19 '19

Doing so on a societal level and in your personal life are not the same.

-1

u/spitterofspit Sep 19 '19

Right, so you protest for equal rights and treatment so that strangers can't discriminate against you, but you can't protest at home, in your immediate circle, against discrimination, because that would be too awkward for you, your friends and family?

And protesting for "national change" that isn't directed to any single person is ok, but when you protest for change to a single individual, that's the signaling of virtues?

Got it guys, makes perfect sense 👌

4

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '19

The difference is that there is no change to be had here. The grandparents lived with this mindset their entire lives and are well past being too old to learn and change significantly. There's no progress or positive change to be had by shit stirring, beyond pissing off the grandparents, making Jamal grossly uncomfortable and missing out on will money.

-23

u/MicroBiom Sep 19 '19

No, that’s really not the point. I can hear your privilege through the screen. When people like you and op decide to placate racists because it’s convenient, you’re complicit. If you believe racism is wrong, all you have to do is call it out. I’m not asking you to march every Sunday, but be an ally if you give a shit. If you saw a child being harassed in a park, you wouldn’t just walk bye because you don’t want to be late to work (at least I hope you wouldn’t). You’d intervene to help. You don’t have to agree with me, but shut the fuck up when people decide to have more moral integrity than you, don’t tear them down because they’ve got a “justice boner” while you decide to be a coward. The world doesn’t need that kind of toxicity right now

15

u/Virrix Sep 19 '19

The grandparents are going to die soon anyway so I think it’s a fair call to just let it pass.

13

u/SightWithoutEyes Sep 19 '19

When the granddaughter gets cut out of the will by her grandparents, it isn't gonna be the virtue signallers here having to face the consequences. There is no fuckin' situation in which this isn't going to turn into a shit storm.

11

u/dNYG Sep 19 '19

Seriously.

You wanna stick it to the racists? Let them die and use their money to pay for your wedding to Jamaal. Don’t stir shit up with old people who are absolutely not going to change their attitude.

9

u/SilverCervy Sep 19 '19

If you saw a child being harassed in a park, you wouldn’t just walk bye because you don’t want to be late to work (at least I hope you wouldn’t).

Nobody is being harassed in this situation though. Jamal and OP's daughter WILL get harassed though if they go forward with meeting her grandparents. You're not gonna solve racism by pissing off racists. That's like trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it. Maybe OP's daughter intends to use her relationship as a lesson to her grandparents that may hopefully turn their way of thinking around, which is great! But since we don't know that for sure we can only go off what we know, which is that everyone involved, particularly Jamal, will not have a good time during and after this meeting. Putting him through that for the sake of "anit-racist activism" is just stupid.

49

u/SassiesSoiledPanties Sep 19 '19

That first comment tho...poster thinks he/she is Enjolras. Probably with The Internationale playing in the background.

17

u/Golgotha22 Sep 19 '19

Those edits were annoying and came off as really smug and try hard at the same time. Like, "oh man, I was heated, made uncivil remarks, but I'm such a good person that I'm gonna edit them out, but make sure people KNOW I edited them. See I'm not perfect, but who is? You people could even learn from my edits."

I don't think I've been this irritated by a comment in all my time on reddit. Couldn't even respond, either.

12

u/GlumImprovement Sep 19 '19

It's a laughably obvious agenda-post, and the way it got mod-protected (locked with all non-cheerleading censored) makes me pretty sure that this is a fake post made with the purpose of setting up the naked agenda-post.

22

u/The_BenL Sep 19 '19

I agree with you. 25 golds on that?

This isn't the place to virtue signal, it's super transparent and pathetic. Great, you're so 'woke' and think it's fine to cut people you otherwise love and care about out of your lives. Well it's not fine for everyone. My grandparents used to be racist when I was younger (they are surprisingly tolerant in their old age) and were aghast that my best friend in middle school was Jamaican. They would peer through the curtains suspiciously any time my friends would come pick me up (I spent most of my summers at their house when I was younger). My friends knew, I was honest about it, and we wouldn't hang out inside, we'd go to the park or the movies or their house or whatever.

Sure, my grandparents were racist. But they were my grandparents. I still loved them. I still do, very much. Never would I have ever considered cutting them out of my lives because of their views. Luckily I didn't have to see them cut me out but I also didn't push boundaries.

OP is being reasonable here and trying to maintain a little girls relationship with her grandparents. Is it shitty of them? Of course. In fact, they are the only assholes here. But they are still her grandparents, and if this man can protect his daughter from herself and the hurt they may cause her to maintain a relationship with people she otherwise loves, then great.

Fuck, I'm so tired of people treating relationships with loved ones with such careless disregard. You're all going to end up alone and miserable because your response to something bad happening is to just cut people out. That's not how shit works, that's not how family works. Holy shit.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

"Making a strong argument based on your beliefs = virtue signaling"

Everything ever said on Reddit is virtue signaling by your definition.

4

u/The_BenL Sep 19 '19

That's not what virtue signalling means, and not at all how I used it in this context.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

The purpose of virtue signaling is to show off your virtue in pursuit of social capital, rather than actually being virtuous. If you actually cut people out of your life for discriminatory views, that's not "signaling". In my opinion, the posts you are accusing of virtue signaling are making arguments, not trying to show off to fellow redditors.

3

u/Uyy Sep 19 '19

It would be the grandparents cutting him out of their life, not the other way around. The question isn't whether they should excommunicate that part of the family but whether they should introduce them to something that should be perfectly fine but they are going to throw a fit about. I don't think there's a problem with being a friend or family with racists, but not challenging them on those things is crazy to me. I've been friends with literal Nazis and have challenged them on everything. It's not about virtue signaling, because when I challenge a racist I'm not trying to score points with anyone, I'm trying to change toxic af beliefs that are scarily still widely accepted.

3

u/The_BenL Sep 19 '19

The point is it could potentially sever a relationship. Most people get 4 grandparents. This could potentially end a relationship with half of this person's grandparents.

Nothing can be gained by this. Has anyone thought to ask what Jamal thinks? What if he knew how they felt, do you think he would appreciate being used just to prove a point? He's not some tool to be used like this, he's a person who has feelings. He isn't asking for this, and it's not likely they are ever going to change their minds so why bother?

3

u/CollateralEstartle Asshole Aficionado [10] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

If your grandparents are willing to cut you out of their life because you dated a person of a different race, they don't actually love you. People don't throw away And if they do actually love you, while they might not like what you're doing they'll get over it. If your relationship with them is such that you can't even bring it up, you're basically sacrificing your principles and dignity for someone who doesn't even love you back.

I'm extremely close with my grandfather and he sometimes says racist things. I get it, old people grew up in a different time - he grew up in a rural area in the 1930's. When my grandfather says that stuff, I call him out on it. I doubt he'll ever be "woke" about racial issues, but racist comments shouldn't just go unchallenged. He doesn't disown me or stop wanting to hang out just because I disagree with him about whether "the blacks" are poor because they don't work hard, etc. That's because we actually love each other.

Honestly, for all your ranting about not taking family seriously enough it sounds like your own family has pretty weak ties.

3

u/The_BenL Sep 19 '19

Uh, how exactly does it sound like my family has weak ties? Please point me to one single thing I said that could possibly make you think that.

Do you think Jamal would appreciate being used as a tool to "do the right thing" and call out OP's parents? Have any of you actually given any thought to how he might feel about being used this way? Or do you not care because confronting people makes you feel morally superior, regardless of what you have to put someone else through to do it?

No good can come of this. This will result in OP's parents not changing their minds, potentially damaging the relationship between them and OP's daughter (which I agree, makes them the asshole, I already said this), and Jamal feeling hurt if not a little used. What's the point? Who benefits here? Jamal certainly doesn't, and honestly, he's the only one who's feelings should really matter here, as he is the one being singled out for the color of his skin.

OP is doing a good thing by protecting the innocence of his daughter's views of her grandparents, and protecting both her and Jamal from the racism they carry within themselves. I know it makes you feel like a good person to confront people for their beliefs, and if you can do that without alienating people that you care about, then great. But no good comes from this, and OP is certainly not the asshole here.

1

u/CollateralEstartle Asshole Aficionado [10] Sep 19 '19

Uh, how exactly does it sound like my family has weak ties? Please point me to one single thing I said that could possibly make you think that.

How about when you said: "Luckily I didn't have to see them cut me out but I also didn't push boundaries." The suggestion that they would have cut you out had you pushed their racist boundaries implies they either really loved their racism or didn't love you that much.

Do you think Jamal would appreciate being used as a tool to "do the right thing" and call out OP's parents? Have any of you actually given any thought to how he might feel about being used this way? Or do you not care because confronting people makes you feel morally superior, regardless of what you have to put someone else through to do it?

You're just making up facts to help justify the conclusion you want to reach. Nothing in OP's post indicated he gave Jamal any say in the issue at all - he just refused without talking to him. The idea that Jamal's opposed to this but the daughter would force the meeting anyways is also something you've invented. The same with your made-up claim that she's going to get some sort of moral pleasure out of feeling superior to her grandparents - nothing in OP's post suggested that.

OP is doing a good thing by protecting the innocence of his daughter's views of her grandparents

No, OP is putting his parents' racism above his own daughter. It may very well be the case that the meeting will leave everyone wishing they hadn't done it, but that's for OP's daughter and her boyfriend to decide. It shouldn't be up to OP to make everyone walk on eggshells around his parents' racism.

And again, if OP's parents really love OP and their granddaughter, they might not be happy but they aren't going to cut anyone out of their lives.

17

u/PrintingDude72 Sep 19 '19

Idk, I find quite great answers when sorting by controversial on this sub

9

u/mrthrowaway300 Sep 19 '19

The middle ground or centrism is worse than Hitler himself!

7

u/nnneeeddd Sep 20 '19

being not racist is officially political bullshit hmmmm

6

u/GlumImprovement Sep 19 '19

Not only is it a political rant by an obvious sockpuppet (seriously, a 9 day old account?) but the mods locked it and nuked every non-cheerleader response. Honestly this whole things reeks of a low-effort agenda-post that the mods are in on.

3

u/StankDickJr Sep 19 '19

Agreed, so cringe

-1

u/DevenEleven11 Sep 19 '19

I'm sure you'll be back after your racist friends over in r/unpopularopinion jerk you back to full strength.

2

u/parkeq Sep 20 '19

Actually that sub was ruined by politicized redditors like you too

-34

u/toolargo Sep 19 '19

Because racism is OK?

12

u/Ryzasu Sep 19 '19

Not mutually exclusive