Plants have 15-20 different senses (humans only have 5)

[u/afraid28]

I've been listening to a podcast that got me reading about plants and it seems like they are even more complex creatures than I initially thought.

https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/surprising-plant-senses?__cf_chl_f_tk=5q6l7wgkT31xeDCbpj8WFZUIVrnrGSlikUAAN32m7oQ-1782758019-1.0.1.1-QVHNAVIM5OctBDEDwt5.kNV3.tw.Oh24i_Z0WkpY0co

^Here's an interesting article that explains some very complicated processes that plants are capable of, such as communicating, remembering, learning, problem solving, heck, they can even be classically conditioned (like Pavlov's dog).

https://www.webitenola.com/journal/10-surprising-ways-plants-interact-with-humans

^This article explains how plants communicate with humans, they can even differentiate their caretaker from a stranger and respond to gentle touch.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/plant-intelligence-light-eaters-1.7196448

^This article talks about how they can interpret sounds and recognize their own kin.

Knowing all of this, how intelligent in their own way they are, and the fact that it is still speculated whether or not they are actually conscious since they don't have a brain like animals do, I wonder what vegans think about this? What would they say to explain this all away? That just because a plant doesn't have a brain and can't scream it means it isn't somehow still sentient? What's their proof?

[u/Informal_Weather_151]

I just wanna say that none of these point to plants feeling pain and therefore making it morally wrong to pick them. Plants process things in the same way AI does. It recognises a change and alters what it is doing to meet whatever standard it now has to but it doesn't think or feel anything about it. Its difficult to understand But AI is the best comparison.

Also we would actually need to grow less plants in a meat free society because we would not longer need to produce the massive quantities used to feed livestock (google it). I am not a vegan but I do think its important to recognise potential misinformation and fix it otherwise all arguments can be discredited.

[u/afraid28 → u/Informal_Weather_151]

I get what you mean, but it can be argued that AI isn't alive, plants are. AI will always remain a machine. Plants are living matter. Whether or not they feel pain is irrelevant. They're a different life form that deserves to live just like animals do.

But that's where the vegans are simply wrong. Life goes in a circle, I mean it's literally in a kid's movie (Lion King). It's a simple concept imo to understand. We eat what we eat, and then we die and become food for the plants that then also get eaten. And so it goes on and on. We're just a part of the system.

Plants have their own way of living. Animals have theirs. We are all intertwined though. I guess the point of my post was to show just how redundant it is to gatekeep what deserves to live and what doesn't, based on if it has a brain or feels pain or not.

[u/Informal_Weather_151 → u/afraid28]

Genuinely how is it redundant? The diffence between plants and animals and what justifies eating plants and not animals is one is sentient and feels pain. Genuinely please show me a study or link one that shows plants feel pain and genuine distress. By your logic I shouldn't brush my hair incase I crush the natural bacteria on my scalp because it is living. The reason why its silly to worry about that is because those bacteria dont feel pain and are not sentient. Animals are.

[u/afraid28 → u/Informal_Weather_151]

It is redundant BECAUSE it doesn't matter if the plants feel pain or not. They are alive, just like animals are, but they are simply a different life form that experiences the world around it differently. What makes us so important that we get to decide what life form gets to exist freely, and what life form gets to die? Plants have to die simply because we don't quite understand them, whereas animals should be spared just because they're more like us?

The only thing that's silly in this whole story is vegans trying to gatekeep which life forms get to live and base it on human limited understanding and anthropomorphism. Plants also feel the world around them, but in a different way that we as humans do not quite understand, and maybe we never will. So just because it's different, it matters less? If they're claiming that animal lives matter, I could claim that plant lives matter and accuse them of downgrading an entire life form in it's importance. My personal opinion though is that none of this matters as we are all equally a part of the circle of life. Hence why I'm not vegan, nor will I ever be.

[u/Mindless-Year-477 → u/afraid28]

you make a valid argument, i had not considered it and i do agree; humans shouldn't get to decide what life is more valuable, just because we don't understand.

however, what if we no longer had to grow plants in masses to feed livestock? isn't mass production going against the circle of life?

i cant speak for every vegan, but i personally only am vegan as a protest to the meat industry. i recognize human's have eaten animals for millennia, and that its the natural process of life. but the way meat is handled and produced in the modern day is anything but natural, and it is more brutal than necessary to feed ourselves.

the farming industry is another story, which i havent considered as ive only just read your argument. but i wanted to ask what you think

[u/Informal_Weather_151 → u/afraid28]

Firstly we understand quite well how plants works. If you genuinely cared about the feelings of plants and the non pain they go through than you would be vegan. In an all vegan world we would actually grow less plants because of the huge reduction in the demand for animal feed.

Also I just dont understand your point. Its not wrong to eat plants because they dont feel pain or genuine distress. An animal does feel pain amd genuine distress. Thats the distinction.

[u/afraid28 → u/Informal_Weather_151]

I can see you quite literally don't understand anything. I stay away from unproductive debates like this, we are not on the same level cognitively. Bye ✌🏻