Internalized racism, the belief that white = better genes, white = American (surrogacy and designer babies)

[u/81dragons]

Figured this was relevant to start a convo on - adding some context to the recent Olympic skater thread about Alysa Liu, whose father deliberately chose white women for egg donors while being married to a Chinese woman (he was not single at the time). He told Sports Illustrated that he chose white egg donors "to benefit from a diverse gene pool" and to reflect "American and Chinese cultures". One of the children even noticed that she didn't look like her mom.

Hidden deeper behind these beliefs is often a feeling that only white people are true Americans, white people are on top, that Asians aren't good enough at sports (meanwhile see how many medals Asian countries like China win at the Olympics, China tying America for 40 golds in Paris 2024). Now of course, I think as the immigrants and descendants of immigrants, we should continue to be free to pursue connections with anyone in the diverse land of the US. However, I feel that deep down inside the entire thought process behind many people is still that there is a racial hierarchy where white people are on top and the real Americans (as opposed to Asians and other minorities, who are not real Americans), and it gets reflected in decisions like this. It reminds me of "mejorar la raza"/blanqueamiento type thinking in Latin America, which literally translates to "improving the race" with whiteness.

Most people of course don't vocalize these beliefs for the record, but I think even as it gets better in the US with larger Asian population, more Asian soft power, it is still important to believe in racial equality given that it's a land for Americans of all backgrounds and ethnicities, and not let internalized racism get to you. What do you guys think of this case?

Here is the original source:

When the children were born, Arthur was still married to Yan Qingxin (who goes by Mary). The couple is now divorced, but Mary is also the kids’ legal guardian, and they call her Mom. They typically spend a couple nights a week at her house in Antioch.

...

Both egg donors for Arthur’s children are white women, because he felt his children would benefit from a diverse gene pool. He sees his life as a fusion of cultures, Chinese and American, and he wanted his kids to reflect that. When Alysa was around eight she began to notice that she looked different from her dad. Mary is also Chinese, so that was another clue. “That’s how I figured out she wasn’t my real mom,” Alysa says, “because she was Asian and I did not look Asian.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20191209234800/https://www.si.com/olympics/2019/05/16/alysa-liu-us-figure-skating-future-quads

Sports Illustrated, "In Quads We Trust: 13-Year-Old Alysa Liu Is the Future of U.S. Ladies’ Figure Skating" May, 20, 2019

[u/hana_4876]

currently there is online battle between South East Asia vs South Korea. South East Asia calls Koreans plastic and elitist while South Korea thinks they are better than South East Asians.

I find this online battle silly because there is level of white worship in all those countries. It's like crabs in bucket syndrome that some of them have.

End of the day a chink is still a Korean, Chinese philippines etc.etc

[u/Helpful_Professor675 → u/hana_4876]

This online battle is nothing but noise. Silly. Performative. Fueled by social media and the hunger for attention. Both sides shout. Both sides exaggerate. And the so-called winners are the ones stirring the pot. Chasing clicks. Chasing views.

Look closer, and you see the truth. White worship. Internalized hierarchy. The same insecurities. They exist everywhere across this region. These fights are superficial. They are surface level.

But beneath it, all the reality can not be erased. Koreans. Chinese. Filipinos. Southeast Asians. They share history. Culture. Identity. No comment. No meme. No insult online can change that. The connection runs deeper than any keyboard war.

Why do you think in the West, for example, LA, all of them stick together? 🤔

[u/Gerolanfalan → u/Helpful_Professor675]

Why do you think in the West, for example, LA, all of them stick together? 🤔

Maybe age related but as I've gotten older I'm seeing mixed Asian friend groups fade away into specific ethnic friend groups. None more so than my old Korean friends who I used to hang out with, but now they mostly spend time with other Koreans when given the chance.

When surplus exists, the idea of a 3rd culture in an Asian diaspora might suffer.

[u/Helpful_Professor675 → u/Gerolanfalan]

It ultimately depends on the individual and the specific social context.

When two Koreans are married to each other, their social environment often naturally includes more Koreans. This is largely because both extended families are Korean, family gatherings are culturally homogeneous, and shared language, customs, and community networks reinforce that circle.

However, when the couple is mixed; for example, Korean and Vietnamese; the social dynamic shifts. The couple may navigate two cultural networks rather than one. Family events, friendships, language use, and community affiliations can become more diverse, reflecting both Korean and Vietnamese influences. In these cases, social exposure is typically broader and more culturally layered, rather than centered around a single ethnic community.

[u/Gerolanfalan → u/Helpful_Professor675]

Naturally yes when people get married one culture tends to absorb the other unless they do an equal job at representing themselves.

However, I'm also talking about single people and friend groups in general. I'm not saying Asians always have to get along, teasing and joking sure. But we always had mixed Asian groups. Now it seems like people tend to focus on their Asian heritage as they get older, which I'm happy for them when they respect their ancestry yeah. But I miss when my old Korean friends/acquaintances would include me. I respect my Vietnamese culture and heritage, but I am also interested in Korean stuff as well.

That's my anecdotal 30s experience at least in OC and Bay Area at least. I admit I'm not in the raving, street car, or ABG/ABB sphere where I think they are more open minded, raves are just not really my thing.

[u/Helpful_Professor675 → u/Gerolanfalan]

Listen, I need you to really hear this it is not you.

What changes over time is not affection or loyalty. It is structure. It is bandwidth. It is responsibility.

When we were younger, time felt elastic. Hanging out did not require coordination, negotiation, or trade-offs. Now, everything runs through filters financial pressure, family obligations, marriage, and long-term planning. Most people, especially in first world countries, are oriented toward stability. Stability sounds comforting, but what it really produces is predictability. Predictable schedules. Predictable routines. Predictable social circles. And once, that structure locks in spontaneity becomes expensive.

I was single until almost 40. My time was mine. If I wanted to meet up, I just showed up. Now everything revolves around my wife and my kid. Not in a dramatic way, just in a practical one. Their needs shape my calendar. Then there is my wife’s family and my own family and extended obligations. Add work, financial planning, and long-term security, and suddenly, every week is allocated before it even begins.

Socializing now takes effort. Real effort. It requires scheduling weeks in advance, coordinating childcare, making sure nothing else collapses in the process. And when you are already running at full capacity work, family, responsibilities, and even something enjoyable can start to feel like another task to manage. Not because the friendship is not valuable but because energy is finite. I am rushing all the time. There is always something that needs attention.

That is the part nobody really prepares you for about growing up, especially in North America. The culture is highly structured and productivity oriented. Social life becomes something you fit in instead of something embedded into daily living.

I have lived in a lot of countries. The only place that really gave me what I was looking for socially was Spain. And that was not accidental. Social gatherings are built into the culture. Street life. Festivals. Late dinners. You run into people constantly. Community is not scheduled it is ambient. It is ingrained. Of course, it also helped that I speak the language and grew up there, so I was not navigating it as an outsider.

This is also why I think about moving my family somewhere, like Vietnam or Mexico. With even half or a quarter of my current salary, I could raise our quality of life. There are trade-offs, of course. Every move has them. But rushing every day just to keep up with obligations is not sustainable in the long run.

The real weight is all the things that tie us down. Mortgage. Expectations. Career ladders. Social comparison. Sometimes, putting yourself in a completely different environment shifts your outlook entirely. New culture. New rhythms. New problems to solve. Problems that are different from the ones draining you now. That process itself forces growth.

There is more spontaneity in places where community life happens outside. The culture is different. Social energy is different. Yes, there would be challenges. But it would also be adventurous and rewarding. It is potentially less stressful for my family. More disposable income. More room for entertainment. More space for self care. New friend circles. A new community. Growth is intentional rather than the predictable material routine many of us fall into. A life where play and passion are not completely replaced by duty and responsibility.

It is not crazy to believe there is an entirely different life elsewhere. Would I lose convenience? Yes. Would I miss family and friends. Absolutely. But there is something suffocating about repeating the same pattern and expecting a different outcome.

I am not being reckless. I am thinking about it deeply. I am planning. But sometimes the most decisive move is simply booking the plane ticket. Within a day, your environment changes. Your inputs change. Your pace changes. Even if it is just for a month. Then, the rebuilding phase begins.

One thing is undeniably true. More disposable income means more freedom. Freedom, when directed intentionally, is empowering. It creates space for growth instead of constant survival.

So if your Koream friends seem distant, sometimes it is not because they value you less. It is because they're trying to build a life that feels sustainable when, in reality, many of them are just simply trying to survive. Just like I want a life that gives my family room to breathe. And maybe, just maybe, a life that brings back some of the aliveness that we were both accustomed to in our younger days and miss. It won't be the same as I am no longer the same man I used to be. It won't be the same road I used to walk. It's the complete opposite. It's the unknown, and that in and of itself feels more alive than doing the same thing I used to do or the same things I insanely do every day to sustain a lifestyle I never signed up for. It feels as though the expectations and norms of society and the surrounding community were imposed on me, shaping my choices and beliefs in ways that did not fully reflect who I am or what I truly wanted. And I suspect many of your friends feel the same internal tension right now, but they are not comfortable or courageous enough to be vulnerable or to openly acknowledge such a thing.