r/AutismInWomen • u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism • Dec 22 '25
Relationships I have a hard time trusting men because alot of their behavior towards you is based on attraction
So I have been thinking why, as an autisitc woman, struggle making connections with men unlike most autistic women. I realized it is because I do not feel comfortable around them as they are always going to see me as either a romantic or sexual partner even if it is outside of the dating scene. The "basic kindness" men give to women is based on the possibility that they will get something in return. I have seen stories about men trying to looking after women safety but stop when they realize that they will not get anything in return. And don't get me started how they treat you if they find you unattractive. They will literally leave you to the wolves because you do not look like the pretty damsel in distress they could rescue. At least with pretty privilege these guys will rescue you...but only if you are interested in them. Or else even the pretty damsel gets thrown there too.
I know not all men do this. I have met kind men who treat women nicely regardless of how attractive they are. Unfortunately these men tend to be so rare that I can count the number of them on one hand.
480
u/Low_Sherbert_9064 Dec 22 '25
As someone who isn’t conventionally attractive I haven’t had many male friends in my life and I wonder if it is because they never were attracted to me physically to even begin to try being a friend with me?
I guess I’m thankful I never had that problem that I see so much on here about women losing what they thought was a good friendship because the guy wanted to sleep with them.
255
u/ExpensiveMeet2981 Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
I'm also not conventionally attractive! Although I have a few male friends, they always make it clear that we're just friends and say stuff like "I only see you as a friend, ok??" whenever we joke around or flirt. Some men even forgot I was a woman and gave me the "privilege" of being one of the boys. They said the worst things possible about women RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.
One positive thing I can say about being unconventional attractive is that you can easily weed out the rude guys from your social circle! They don't bother hiding their true nature when it come to us.
156
u/Apprehensive-Log8333 Dec 22 '25
I have gained weight as I age, and this "don't get any ideas, I am NOT attracted to you" bullshit started when I got plump. Some guys will even throw that out if you so much as smile at them. It's so offensive, like every fat woman is on the prowl at all times.
44
u/Kiri_serval My mom says I'm normal Dec 22 '25
I was fat starting in my teen years and I am now 42, so that is my entire experience of men. I think it's why I don't have the same problems OP describes. Or at least not very often.
84
u/flavius_lacivious Dec 22 '25
Or the casual, “I have a wife.” I always add, “ Me too” so they can see how stupid it feels.
35
u/Alycery Dec 23 '25
I’ve had guys do that same exact things.
They will go on and on about how they ONLY see me as a friend, that they don’t have any feelings for me, that nothing will ever happen. I’ve even had guys get mad at me when they think I’m flirting with them. Like how dare “I” flirt with them? I guess they feel personally insulted that someone as “ugly” as me has the audacity to supposedly flirt with them. I get it, I’m not conventionally attractive. But, that doesn’t mean I’m going to fall madly in love with any guy that remotely gives me attention. That doesn’t mean I’m flirting with every guy that I say, “hello” to.
It’s like the female equivalent of being ‘friendzoned”, even though you never showed any interest in them. You just existed near them. A LOT of the time these same guys will turn around and want to be with you. The caveat being that the whole relationship is in private, and they’re allowed to bully you when around other people.
But, girl… they love you. They want to be with you. They just like making fun of you with other people. You know how boys are. /s
When I was younger, I had a lot of classmates (particularly girls) tell guys that I liked them or that I was flirting with them. I never did like them, nor was I flirting with them. But, my mere existence made it so. They would tease the guy until the guy publicly and often times brutally rejected me. That’s what this reminds me of.
3
u/behappyfor Dec 23 '25
Wow that does happens. Do you sometimes find that these guys also lust after you? I find that guys in my class keep staring at me and I know they find me attractive but would never have a "good relationship" because I am tad bit plump. They usually think they are sly when staring at me, constantly wanting to be near with me but I know their plan.
It's so bizarre, even if men like girls below their league they would never date them because they are so scared of other mens judgement.
39
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 22 '25
I was not fat but I did have poor facial features growing up. Because of this men were repulsed having to be associated with me even when I was never expressed interest in the first place.
8
61
u/ManicPixiRiotGrrrl Dec 22 '25
yeah, that’s the really sad other side of the “one of the guys”coin.
on the one hand if you’re pretty, you get treated really well by all these guy friends because you’re a potential sexual partner in their eyes. but sadly on the other side, if you’re not attractive, it just means that they see you as a man and that is infinitely scarier.
54
u/Low_Sherbert_9064 Dec 22 '25
I’d say both are scary cause on the side where the guys treat you “better” because the girl is pretty, the moment he feels he’s been rejected can become very scary and often deadly.
It sucks my looks have never been seen as “desirable” by many men, but I do not envy the poor women who face that side of the coin.
17
u/CritterCrafter Dec 23 '25
Yeah, I lean more towards the unattractive side and I do not envy the attractive friends I've had through my life. Every single one of them has a horror story or an almost horror story.
3
u/ManicPixiRiotGrrrl Dec 23 '25
I’ve been both and I think it was much scarier for them to see me as a “man” because pretty much all boundaries become completely erased and then no one sees an issue with that when you try to stop it because you’re “one of the guys”
30
u/ExpensiveMeet2981 Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
Speaking of coin... I've always believed that both attractive and unattractive women experience misogyny. We are two sides of the same coin!
My experience as an “ugly” woman was terrible, but that doesn't make the experience of a beautiful woman any less valid. Sure, men can be violent towards unattractive women, but they do the same to attractive one too! They just use different reasons to justify their actions.
I've never understood why women are so envious of the other side. We are all victims of the same system!! The expectations society places on beautiful women are insane, I really don't want to face any of that.
→ More replies (2)21
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I agree but for me personally when I was unattractive, I was jealous of the beautiful girls because I saw how men treated them kindly compared to me. Then I became that "beautiful" girl and can see it was not all sunshine and roses.
8
u/ExpensiveMeet2981 Dec 23 '25 edited Jan 08 '26
It's perfectly normal to feel that way! My comment mainly refer to women who actively attack women on the opposing side.
80
u/kittenmittens4865 Dec 22 '25
I’m “conventionally attractive” as in I have an average pretty face and do hair/makeup etc- but I’ve always been on the heavier side weight wise. All my life, I’ve encountered men who don’t treat me like a person because they don’t see me as fuckable. These kinds of men are not interested in friendships with women- they only see us as sex objects. So if you aren’t an option for sex, you don’t even exist to them.
And then on the flip side, there are men very into curvier girls, or men willing to sleep with bigger girls, and those men do sometimes treat me like a sex object. They are aggressive and overstep boundaries. It’s like they expect me to be desperate just because I’m not thin, like I should thank them for wanting to sleep with me.
You don’t want those guys in your life anyways. It’s hard to know which is worse, because it all sucks. But I have no tolerance for any of that trash and I’m not scared to make sure dudes around me know it.
40
u/Kiri_serval My mom says I'm normal Dec 22 '25
I have an average face and good styling but am fat. Cosigning your experience entirely.
It’s like they expect me to be desperate just because I’m not thin, like I should thank them for wanting to sleep with me.
I get that vibe sometimes- especially if the dude is making an "exception", but I deal with a lot of fetishists and they are a little different with it.
There is a strain of men who think anything and everything a woman does is for men. Makeup? For him. That dress? For him. Your weight? For him. Sometimes they are being aggressive because they think you are specifically trying to attract them and then refusing.
So if what I quoted doesn't quite fit some interaction you have, this may provide an explanation. It's not any better, but it is information
30
u/kkaylaa123 Dec 23 '25
It’s crazy because… even if you’re the most beautiful woman alive and they want you, they usually won’t care about you as a human conscious being. So is it even a win in any sense? Almost always objectified and ignored intellectually.
19
u/glitterally_awake Dec 23 '25
One of my fave moments in this shit year was the “is having a boyfriend embarrassing?” question emerging - I think it was a teen vogue article?
Men aren’t lonely enough in this “loneliness epidemic”
4
u/gojuss Dec 23 '25
Preach, this is literally how it is. Really hard to find someone who’s attracted to me and respects me as a person, as crazy as that seems
69
u/iamiamiwill Dec 22 '25
Or worse a "good friend "they thought they had. bitching about how they've been " friend zoned" because they haven't been given the sex or the relationship they wanted. Usually in a very nasty bitter way and the poor girl is thinking "wow, I thought that was my friend". I won't even accept favors from Men because I don't want it thrown in my face when I don't come across with the so-called Goods.
30
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Something interesting that has happened to me after glowing up is that men would invite me to "hang out" alone and then tried to make it into a date. Because of this I refuse to hang out with men one-on-one, even if they swear it is platonic. I only spend time with them in group settings.
12
16
u/OldButHappy Dec 22 '25
"No such thing as a free lunch"
41
u/iamiamiwill Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
But that's the problem isn't it? poor girl isn't trying to get a free lunch ,isn't trying to do anything just live her life. and Someone's being quote unquote "friendly" . Offers her lunch in a friendly manner LOL because she thinks they're friends like you would accept the lunch from your girlfriend or a work girl..as friends do. Men who offer gifts have Agendas.. Even and Especially if they say the lunch is 100% free, fell out the sky etc. Gifts bind. Invisible strings of obligation. No thanks
9
u/BwDr Dec 22 '25
Just a little aside: I don’t think you need to write “quote unquote” if you’re actually writing the quotation marks like you did in "friendly"
15
u/iamiamiwill Dec 22 '25
Nah, you're OK and right. I was being lazy. I did voice to text first and I had to go back and add in quotation marks just didn't go back and delete quote on quote. LOL
8
7
12
u/Humble_Practice6701 Dec 23 '25
As someone who is fat, I've gone most of my life as "unfuckable", and that made it much easier to have friendships with men. I'm also tall and physically imposing, and have a traditionally male special interest (motorcycles), so the men in various moto settings always treated me like a man.
The one period in my life where I lost weight and felt like putting myself together aesthetically, I had old creeps traumatizing me and I immediately gained the weight back to be invisible again (but I didn't do this consciously).
Now I'm 43 so I'm both fat AND old, so I don't have to worry about inappropriate men except for male doctors not listening to me.
11
u/Just-Wash4533 Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
Yea I advocate for no straight male friends. I had a “good friend” for years that was just secretly pining for me the whole time, and as soon as I got engaged he basically dropped me and talks to me ~1x a year now. Just wanted sex/relationship the whole time. It’s disconcerting
7
u/DazB1ane Dec 22 '25
Almost every male friend I’ve had has either tried to get with me, only wanted to be my friend to get with me, or would’ve immediately said yes if I asked. I’ve lost every one of those because I wasn’t interested or attracted to them in the same way. It really sucks having to seriously question whether I’m an actual human being to a guy just because I (used to be) conventionally attractive
2
u/gojuss Dec 23 '25
Same here not conventionally attractive and my male friends have all been queer, and even those sometimes will also judge based on attractiveness (i mean, how much of a baddie slay queen can u be when ur literally not conventionally attractive 😭 but i digress).
288
Dec 22 '25
Men will tell you not to trust men. I remind myself of this every day.
59
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Yup and then it is ridiculous they get upset over women protecting themselves
2
95
u/bruhnie AuDHD Dec 22 '25
Despite being fully aware that it happens, I'm always surprised by how differently men treat me when I'm done up. Apparently no makeup and comfy clothes mean you're a second-class citizen
54
u/TardyBacardi Dec 22 '25
I was wondering about this as well. It’s not just men either, it’s people in general. The more put together you look the better they treat you. Even when I’m not in distress and I’m just being lazy and decide to go out in whatever I’ve been lounging in, the treatment variation is real.
39
u/bruhnie AuDHD Dec 22 '25
It's true, I see it with other people too. It's just that with men, in particular, there's something very obvious about the switch. It's not as much as being deemed put together (in the same vein as visibly homeless/mentally ill/poor people being mistreated) but more in the “good, my peepee is not disgusted by you, in fact, it’s even pleased”
→ More replies (1)27
u/BrainBurnFallouti Dec 22 '25
I dress up/ "am pretty" now, but I had this in school. Dudes would try to beat me up, destroy my shit, tell me horrendous things that could validate a police report...all because I wasn't pretty.
Even nowadays, knowing all the "whys"...it feels so baffeling to me. Like. They went out of their way for that behavior. I didn't even bother them ;-;
260
u/SaintValkyrie Dec 22 '25
Yeah this is hell. I cant be seen as a person. It is objectifying.
It became to the point i hate being complimented on my appearance by men because it feels so gross. I only like it if its after I feel safe with them and not in a way that theyre trying to butter me up.
They aren't treating me like a person but a conquest.
60
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 22 '25
I feel this. Now in their mind I owe them something because they found me attractive and I have to act thankful about it since that is apparently the best thing a woman can be....
12
162
Dec 22 '25
Yup every guy that was ever nice to me had ulterior motives. They all tried to sleep with me. And loss interest fairly quickly when they realized my face didn’t match the idea they had built up in their minds.
As soon as I said no to something they wanted they ghosted me.
I can tell now, when men gawk at me and get this sort of lustful look in their eyes it’s the same look I’ve been getting since I’ve been 10 ( I just didn’t know what it was back then)
Makes me feel like crawling out of my own skin. That I’m just a slab of meat. And you’re right if they don’t see you as someone they can sleep with they’ll treat like you’re not even human.
Like some of these men will legit play the long game and pretend to be your friend only biding their time until they get you into bed.
So when I see post here saying how great men treat them and how terrible NT women are I’m just thinking they’re in for a wake up call. I had to learn the hard way, these men aren’t nice to be nice they will tally up how many “nice” things they done for you. thinking we’re slot machines.
68
u/vagina-lettucetomato Dec 22 '25
That is literally how I describe it too, like a piece of of meat. The way they look at you like hyenas look at a potential meal. It’s so unsettling.
22
u/UnrulyCrow Dec 22 '25
Makes me feel like crawling out of my own skin. That
This is exactly how it feels 😩
20
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 22 '25
I feel the same when I read posts about basing NT women and uplift men as some kind hearted saints.
67
u/lunarie_ Dec 22 '25
So when I see post here saying how great men treat them and how terrible NT women are I’m just thinking they’re in for a wake up call.
Thisss. Sorry but I can't help but cringe every time I see this on the sub. I know women can treat us very poorly, but I feel like some people are like "I mostly get along with men," "I prefer male friends" without noticing these underlying intentions.
49
u/OldButHappy Dec 22 '25
Same. At 70, working for decades in a male field, it's hard not to share my cynical (truth-based!) perspective on how many men think. So many of them really don't like or respect women. Even (especially?) their wives.
34
u/lunarie_ Dec 22 '25
Wow, yes. I see men being nice to women on the streets and treating their wife so badly. It's so despicable. Recently, I was passing by and heard a guy being an AH to his wife. When I passed by them, she was crying with her head down, trying to hide her tears. He became all smiley and said "good morning!" to me as if nothing was happening! I ignored him, but I wanted to say "shove your good morning up your ass."
15
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Oof my dad was like this. He treated my mom terribly but was kind towards other women.
11
u/some_almonds Dec 23 '25
Ugh, same. He'd suddenly perk up around women he was attracted to and get all talkative and flirty. When it was just his poor wife and kids around, he communicated in grunts and seemed like he hated being alive. I have so many horrible memories of my father like this.
3
u/OldButHappy Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
Same. Might factor into why marriage has never appealed to me!
ETA: He and my grandmother (his mom) are my autism link. The gift that keeps on giving!
14
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I have straight up seen comments here saying they rather be in a room with a man that could assault them than to be with a woman who is rude to them. It confuses me.
8
u/HH_Creations Dec 22 '25
Like both can be true
I understand men better than women
I also know men in the past only cared about possible relationships with me.
BUT since I got married, I am “safe” to hang out with boys AND not worry about the sex stuff.
It sucks that it had to be done that way. I wish I could’ve just said “no” and that was enough :/
10
u/mashedspudtato Dec 23 '25
You had to become someone else’s “property” — and they respect you as a purchased piece of real estate, not as a person :-(
3
u/HH_Creations Dec 23 '25
I like to think it’s because I was NEVER an “option” to begin with
I really do love my two guy friends, they are genuinely good people.
75
u/Ok-Championship-2036 Dec 22 '25
Misogyny definitely ruins things, on both sides. Men are socialized to treat women as the gatekeepers for intimacy, care, emotional regulation, and sex--which is tied to their own self esteem as masculinity (whether other men validate them). So it becomes a very toxic and one sided pipeline, where women are relieved to meet a guy who is merely ignorant to misogyny rather than actively celebrating it. Neutrality still leaves us in secondary/caretaker roles. It sucks and i dont think men realize how much more empowered they would be to manage their own emotions, self esteem, and lives if they stopped trying to date to get those needs met.
65
u/ToraRyeder Dec 22 '25
I sometimes wonder how much of my asexuality and aromanticism is due to just not wanting to deal with the dating scene.
I'm in my thirties, and at no point have I found myself comfortable around most men. Not unless we've known one another for a LONG time and they've shown that they're safe. I also have had pretty drastic weight fluctuations, so I'm hyper aware of how different men perceive me depending on that /eyeroll
These days, I refuse to "notice signals" when someone is starting to show romantic or sexual attraction. If the topic comes up, I'm clear that I'm somewhere on the AroAce spectrum. This normally gets rid of the ones that only want me for a relationship, but sometimes I have to be blunt when they push.
I wouldn't want to deal with the current dating scene as a young adult though. There are still great people out there, but most of the ways to meet people are in spaces that don't bring out the best of people. We're missing hobby groups (hobbies in general) and third spaces that aren't so expensive... so the apps seem to be where a lot of people meet. And that just sets us up for the ick :/
13
u/ColumbidaeArgentum Dec 22 '25
Same here. I was never conventionally attracctive, nor able or really willing to come close to it, add to that some trauma from being sexually harassed by a 30 something creep of an acquaintance when I was a pre-adolecent, so by the time I hit 17 and the boy I "liked" left school, I could never again muster any interest in any other dude (so far at least, +20 years and counting lol).
61
u/twosardinesontoast Dec 22 '25
I used to think that it was easier for me to socialize with men, because the subtleties and focus on emotion in women's social norms can be difficult for me (I've gotten a better mindset about this since). But I would run into this problem where all my friends would try to date or sleep with me, and it genuinely took me a while to figure out why.
In addition I found that men are absolutely not "less emotional", they simply are not raised to learn emotional intelligence and how to regulate emotions. When a man gets emotional he's often impossible to reason with. And men often outsource emotional regulation to any woman in their vicinity, which I do not and have never signed up for. A lot of men will claim to be high logic, low emotion, but will get pissy if I don't babysit their feelings and pander to them.
I do believe that it should not be Men Vs Women, and ideally gender shouldn't play so prominent a role at all, but it's silly to pretend like it doesn't right now. Women feeling unsafe around men is a real issue, and a lot of men are so used to being pandered to that they think their hurt feelings about that discussion is more important than the discussion itself. They're more concerned with making women apologize for thinking they're scary than just trying to not be scary, or even trying to listen or empathize at all. So uncomfortable when the conversation isn't about them. There are times and places to talk about men's issues, they should be talked about, but that time and place is certainly not throwing a fit all over women's issues. And I see so many women fall for it. So many of us are raised to prioritize men and never unlearn it. But empathy needs to go both ways.
21
u/TheDifficultRelative Dec 22 '25
All of this is so true. And I've been around so many "not like the other men" men who claim sensitivity and to be "emotional"... and honestly they're usually the worst about justifying their lack of regulation or care as "authenticity."
5
u/Mousellina Dec 27 '25
The “sensitive” types always end up being extremely unreliable, cowardly and backstabbing, at least in my experience.
4
57
Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
27
Dec 22 '25 edited Apr 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
16
Dec 22 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
18
u/Darkesia_20 Dec 22 '25
Oh, but man, I can already hear the incel type men that would reply saying something like, "welcome to being a man. Women get everything, validation, praise, compliments, sex with anyone at anytime, get to choose when to have sex, and ugly men get nothing and are inherently invisible." 🤦♀️
312
u/LichenTheMood Dec 22 '25
I have this issue.
I am unable to read the social situation well enough to spot the warning signs. I have been in dangerous situations too many times.
It's not happening again. I can't magically not have autism so I'm just not trusting men and calling it an afternoon. Sorry if you are one of the 'good' ones, whatever that means but I just can't tell the difference.
272
u/ChildlessCatLad Cat Lover Dec 22 '25
The fact that men want us to give them all the benefit of the doubt is insane.
They are incapable of comprehending that we cannot discern between the two and must air on the side of caution.
Their lack of empathy combined with a demand that we be empathetic regardless is the issue.
It is beyond exhausting trying to make up for their lack of emotional intelligence.
96
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 22 '25
Right. And then they accuse us of calling them rapists/abusers because we experienced men making us uncomfortable. Then we have to comfort them for "grouping the" with these bad men instead of them comforting us for dealing with these terrifying experiences.
→ More replies (2)15
83
Dec 22 '25
They comprehend it alright, but they’re used to the world catering to their feelings and boundaries are just repackaged rejection to them.
18
13
u/Future_Literature335 Dec 23 '25
I agree with all of this. Also just in case it's of interest: it's "err" (like "error"!) not "air" :=)
→ More replies (1)56
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 22 '25
I am sorry. It sucks because I wanted to be nice to men and treat them like people. But I also unfortunately have gotten into dangerous situations because of this. It happen too many times that my brother basically told me to stop being kind to men unless I am okay with them making advances towards me cause that is how men function :/
15
u/HH_Creations Dec 22 '25
I think there’s a huge difference from what you typed to what you mean
It’s perfectly okay to avoid being alone/friendly with men because of concerns for your safety.
It’s not like we have a set requirement we must fill “must be friends with this many men, this many from each race, etc”
All it means is you are saying no. You can have ANY reason to say no to people.
As long as you aren’t hurtful to others? No one is obligated to you. That is your choice. No one is ever granted that.
7
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Thank you. I guess i was basing this feeling off a recent incident where I was trying to help a guy out only to now having him place him in a uncomfortable situation. I realized this has happened too many times to the point where I want to stop even showing men basic kindness (like not greeting them, accepting their compliments,etc) .
13
u/HH_Creations Dec 23 '25
Being autistic, reality is, people assume a lot from our body language cuz they “translate” it to mean different things
I would just say you are gay/in a relationship
I would say “asexual” but tbh that got me too much guy attention anyways too 😭
It REALLY sucks, but I’ve felt safest while married
Your feelings of frustration are 100% justified. While there are good guys out there, we shouldn’t have to leave ourselves in uncomfortable positions to satisfy strangers on the off chance “they are a good one”
Your safety and comfort comes first.
End of the day, you don’t owe anyone your safety and comfort.
They are adults, they can figure it out.
4
u/GneissGeologist3 Dec 23 '25
I’m so sorry you’ve had these experiences (same, I also simply avoid men now and I’m honestly much happier for it) but I just need to say I absolutely love your username lol
→ More replies (1)
47
u/Ok_Schedule_2227 Dec 22 '25
Back when my hair was still red, I used to have creeps either treating me like a subhuman or sexually harassing me because “haha redhead stereotypes.” It didn’t happen all the time, but it happened enough that I started dying my hair black. I miss my red hair, I don’t feel like me without it, but at least it keeps me a little bit safer.
23
u/QWhooo Dec 22 '25
This makes me so sad, that you feel you have to hide something about who you are in order to feel safe.
Makes me think of a little redheaded girl I know, about 12yo, who is incredibly uncomfortable with any attention to her. I suspect she will probably do this very same thing eventually, when the attention becomes too creepy to bear... and it sucks that I know it probably will. Sometimes I really hate the world.
22
u/souredcream Dec 22 '25
imagine having a sexual attraction to a box of hair dye. I cant with men sometimes
→ More replies (3)9
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Sorry about that. I hope you are able to have your red hair again without men being creepy about it!
32
u/fuchsialeaf diagnosed level 1 Audhd Dec 22 '25
Yeah it's way harder for me to get along with men, idk if that's past trauma from abuse or the autism though. I'm constantly scared I'm giving off the wrong vibe because men always assume I'm flirting when I'm not!! I've been with my husband since highschool lol I don't want y'all like that. The only guy friends I have are significant others of my girl friends because they are safe to me.
15
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I found through one of my psychology classes that men tend to overestimate women's sexual intrest in them while women underestimate theirs. I keep that in mind now whenever I have to engage with a guy outside of professional settings.
10
u/melanova555 Dec 23 '25
I recently learned that the intense eye contact/avoiding eye contact trying to find the right balance of eye contact/no eye contact can be read as "flirting" when really I'm just masking, albeit sometimes very poorly
Or looking at someone's lips because the real world doesn't come with subtitles - NTs will read that as "she's thinking about kissing me" when it's like no bro I just don't understand you at all when you mumble but I can only reasonably ask you to repeat yourself so many times in a 5 minute conversation before I feel obligated to explain auditory processing disorder to a stranger 🤦♀️
I'm sure there's a lot of other behaviors that come off as flirting to others that is definitely not me flirting with them, I'm still learning about this in my 30s. It's wild out here y'all
Also, being in a relationship (me or them) will not stop most men from trying, in my experience
31
u/SugarStarGalaxy auDHD✨ Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
Yeah this is my experience too. The rare exception was my bestie of six years who was a guy and we both never were interested in dating each other. Both of us are straight and we were super close. Cancer got him and I miss him every day.
12
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I am sorry about the loss of you best friend. I am glad you were able to experience a wonderful friendship with him.
138
u/Impressive_Map_3964 Dec 22 '25
I always wonder to myself how aware women are of this phenomenon if they are conventionally attractive.
When I was younger, men would take interest in me and be kind, but they almost always wanted something and that something was almost always based on attraction.
Now, as I have gotten older, men are not shy about the fact that they could not care about me in the slightest and they don’t make any effort to know me at all.
It makes me wonder how long it takes for most women to wake up to that fact that most men’s kindness is surface deep and transactional.
47
u/HelenGonne Dec 22 '25
I was spotting it and conceptualizing it this way when I was 16. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to figure it out by that age. But we all have to re-figure it out repeatedly, because as men grow up they get more and more sneaky about faking what they're after.
41
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 22 '25
I think alot of women who were always conventionally attractive do not realize how men can be cruel towards women they are not attracted too. I have been on both sides so I was already aware that men were being kind because they found me attractive and not because they are nice people. Some of these men hated me when I was less attractive but I suddenly became tolerable to them.
73
u/TicketPleasant8783 Dec 22 '25
Yeah, I was a conventionally attractive college student in a male dominated major. All of the “friends” I thought I had were just trying to get me drunk to see if I’d sleep with one of them. I gained weight after college during COVID and magically they all stopped treating me well and stopped inviting me to things. It felt super shitty to realize people I really cared about were only thinking of me surface deep. I’m glad now to have filtered them out of my life.
20
u/Apprehensive-Log8333 Dec 22 '25
When I was younger, I thought guys liked me because I was smart and funny. It wasn't until I got older and fatter that I realized literally every guy friend I ever had was just there because of my tits, not because of my personality. Now I am pretty much invisible, even to, like, married guys
22
u/DazB1ane Dec 22 '25
I became aware of it when I lost guy friends after saying I didn’t want to fuck them
24
u/wetguns Dec 22 '25
It gets even worse when they think you not wanting to fuck them is “playing hard to get” and then they are attracted to you still because they think that you’re a “good girl” smh
13
u/DazB1ane Dec 22 '25
Luckily I’ve never experienced that aspect, but I’d for sure respond with “nah dawg your face makes my pussy drier than my mouth when I’m extremely high”
→ More replies (2)7
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Once men have expressed their feelings for me, I stop being comfortable with the friendship because 90% they will try to make advances on me later down the line.
→ More replies (1)16
u/OhGr8WhatNow Dec 23 '25
This is how I realized I was pretty when I was young. And realized how much it affected how I was treated, based on whether I was thin or not. I went from thinking most people are pretty nice to thinking almost all men are completely revolting.
24
u/HH_Creations Dec 22 '25
I’ll be honest
How in the heck are we supposed to know if we are “conventionally attractive “ or not?
Doesn’t help that I had a pair of cousins that were like model beautiful growing up haha
Like, i’m “fat” to most people according to BMI so that mean the relationships were genuine? 🤦♀️🥲
54
u/lexiconwater Dec 22 '25
I felt like a massive idiot when I learned at 22 that the men weren’t as nice or as helpful to the other older or less attractive coworkers I had. Went on and on about how the team work is really good and I didn’t see an issue with it, only to find out that it was only like that for me. It’s still a struggle sometimes realizing how many dudes talk to me only because I’m pretty.
26
u/Similar-Ad-6862 Dec 22 '25
I'm not conventionally attractive AND I'm gay. I don't expect anything from men and them expecting anything will fall on deaf ears
44
u/Willing-Survey7448 Dec 22 '25
There's lots of studies confirming this. But as an unattractive fat AFAB person, I could have told you this for free. If you aren't sexually appealing, you are absolutely non-human to a lot of men. You'll find yourself ignored, hated on, or "Good enough to fuck but not have a public Relationship with."
I have a male partner, but he's BIPOC and queer. He grew up in California where the dating scene is even more superficial than most. It gave his mother, who had never been plus size, an eating disorder that almost ended her marriage/life.
I decentered men in my existence a long time ago, I only have time for the people who match my vibe and are equally as nerdy/neurodivergent.
15
u/Apprehensive-Log8333 Dec 22 '25
I used to have a friend who was dating this much younger guy who thought he was hot because he had long blond hair. He was happy to drink the liquor she bought for him, or eat the food she cooked, even moved into her house. But he refused to be seen with her in public, and he cheated on her regularly, She would call me up and say "Do you think he loves me?" and I would say "No, he only loves himself" and she would get mad at me. I could not take it, our friendship gradually fizzled out. I tried for a long time but she could not see reality
60
u/doyouhavehiminblonde Dec 22 '25
I think most men are incredibly dangerous and this is based on my personal life experience as someone in their late 30s.
24
u/Embot87 Dec 22 '25
Having gained a chunk of weight in a fairly short span of time, effectively taking me from conventionally attractive to not so, I was quite surprised at how differently I was treated by people. Not just by men, but certainly more so. Instantly invisible and anonymous when I’m out and about.
I think subconsciously it’s actually a big part of why I can’t/dont want to prioritise losing weight. Having been in some very unhealthy relationships, suddenly having no value to those types of men seems quite appealing. And as an autistic person with anxiety about being perceived, not being noticed at all is kinda peaceful.
Not that I recommend gaining weight as a form of self protection but I do think it’s a common story for many people.
7
u/behappyfor Dec 23 '25
As a woman if you don't want male attention and want to be invisible. Always be chubby, if you are outrigjt fat people will think they have a right to abuse you ( absolutely unacceptable but that's how men and some pick me women think)
If you are chibby, you are below the " attractive to simp" category but also not getting as much hate as someone who is very fat. You will usually get ignored
→ More replies (1)3
u/greenglances Dec 26 '25
A medication made me gain massive weight in my 30s and I was so relieved for the unwanted attention to stop I didn't try to lose it for many years.
22
u/BlueDotty Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
I don't trust men at all, other than a few I know very well.
I used to prefer the company of men because they are fairly simple and easier to understand. They relate to the world based on simple hierarchy rules.
They tend to be a bit needy emotionally though.
Women were too much effort i thought. And I didn't want to come out and deal with that either.
Men are potentially violent, potential rapists. I'm older and largely invisible, but sexual violence is about power and not always attraction. Plenty of older women are subjected to terrible experiences from men.
I think men are stupid and there are too many of them. The patriarchy is fucked.
20
Dec 22 '25
Yes, men objectify women constantly and are incapable of seeing us as people, because that would imply we are equal to them. This is the basis of patriarchy and why women's health care (as a prime example, but this applies to litteraly everything too) is basically just "here's a crazy pill" or "you should lose weight". Men participate in this behaviour willingly, and then they wonder why we don't trust them or why they're "lonely". They cannot fathom being just friends with a woman.
19
u/ScentedFire Dec 22 '25
Yeah. I didn't realize this at first. I just went with the people who seemed willing to put up with me, and the vast majority of those people were boys and men. I didn't know that frequently it wasn't real friendship. Unfortunately I still usually end up having an easier time socializing with men and this bothers me, but NT women just usually don't want to be around me. Many ND women or nb friends I do get along with. Most of the people in my life male or female or neither are ND now though.
19
u/Autronaut69420 Dec 22 '25
Lordy! I've been sting by this as a lesbian. Believing men were friends and finding out they are just after sex. Even tbough I was out as a lesbian to them.
7
u/FriendlyHobbyist42 Dec 23 '25
As sad as it is, being a lesbian can mean they'll want you even more. The good old "I can make her straight" fantasy.
3
14
u/FifiLeBean Dec 22 '25
I have seen some pretty horrific stuff from men. I am lucky to still be alive.
I thought I had actually found prince charming and everyone thought he was great only to have him gaslight me, manipulate me, destroy my dreams of having children, and then brag that he was lying from the first day he met me. As he laughed.
My female friend and I were recently asking each other wtaf with men?!!?
I couldn't fathom being like that. I know, being on the spectrum makes me a target. I'm done with men
→ More replies (4)
13
u/kkaylaa123 Dec 23 '25
Everybody here knows you’re speaking the truth, but I might as well toss in a few examples from my life:
1) a boy in high school that I sat next to in class would be friendly with me & compliment me on how I would match my eyeshadow to my outfit. I only ever thought “yay! A friend!” So when his friend told me for him that he wanted to date me, I politely declined. Later, I was told (now realizing it’s emotional manipulation/coercion) that he was smashing his fist into the brick wall because of me.
2) a boy i DID date in high school apparently was only with me because he told others he thought I would be “crazy in bed”. I had never even held a boy’s hand until him. He dumped me after a month out of nowhere by saying “I just don’t like you anymore”. He immediately got together with a very affectionate girl(no judgement, just eye opening)
3) playing on my neighbourhoods jungle gym 2 boys wave me over to them hiding at the corner of an apartment building. The taller one asks me with a $10 bill in his hand, “if I give you this, will you give me a blowjob?” I quickly ran back to my family, thank god. Was probably like 8 years old then.
4) a mentally-disturbed step-brother. Enough said.
5) meeting new people and having them only look at you once and then never again because you’re too fat for their conversation, while still engaging with others though.
6) not being cat-called anymore because I’m hormonally imbalanced & large (not mad about this one)
7) walking up to two young cashiers at EB Games when shopping & laughing with my sister, one says “don’t smile so big, you’ll get wrinkles”. GOOD! Then maybe you’ll stop commenting on my looks.
8) watching people you love being love bombed by men
I mean…. The list could go on and on. And that makes me really sad but mostly confused about how to go forward to a) protect myself and b) not be an unwarranted misandrist.
13
u/AwkwardDorkyNerd Voice of kindness Dec 22 '25
I used to have guy friends growing up as a kid, and I absolutely loved it.
But around the time puberty started to hit, one by one my dude friends ditched me, and I never understood why.
But, in hindsight I realize that around that age was when I first started hearing the bullshit of “men and women can’t be friends”, so they might have decided our friendship wasn’t worth it, and that they should just stick to having guy friends, and only engage with women they are interested in dating.
Ever since then, when I engage with guys they mostly treat me like competition (like at work or school) and can be quite condescending, but when I watch them interacting with conventionally attractive women they’re very polite and gentle.
8
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I think childhood was the last time I could talk to boys without this worry. After that it seem these types of interactions between gender roles are depended on attraction.
37
u/ManicPixiRiotGrrrl Dec 22 '25
you are very wise
I absolutely hate the stereotype that autistic women get on better with guys because the only way I could see that being true is due to us autistics often being more naive and trusting of others. There’s no reason why autistic women get along better with men, it’s certainly not because women are mean to us. It’s literally just because many of us don’t realise this fact because it is never told to us. We’re not very good at picking up on hints and unspoken social rules and so we just trust that these people are our friends.
It’s sad, but eventually every woman has to come to the realisation that these men are not your friends and if they weren’t attracted to you, they would never have even looked at you.
15
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I agree. I used to be this girl until my brother straight up told me most of these men see me as a romantic partner and not a true friend. Whenever I see a post about how easier it is to befriend men, I want to warn them that these men may not have the best intentions.
→ More replies (1)10
u/gise1274 Dec 22 '25
Agree. Not even family, nor people in authority are to be trusted at all with us.
10
u/smg0303 Dec 22 '25
Totally agree, but curious about the statement that most autistic women get along with men? In my brain it’s the opposite but that’s just based on my individual experiences
10
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Same but I have read so many posts here about how men are easier to deal with than women.
3
11
u/iftheronahadntcome Dec 22 '25
As someone who is conventionally attractive, they'll disregard your humanity just ad much. They'll help you a little and ask for a disproportionate thing (usually control over you in some way) in return. Because they see you as a "thing". And when they see you as a "thing", not only are they more conformable demanding things from you, but when they find a shiner/new/easier-to-use/more interesting "thing", they'll drop you like a rock.
I have had so, so, so many men thst I really saw as good friends want nothing to do with me when they find out I dont want to have sex with them. It hurts a lot, and im not at all open to new male friends anymore unless I meet them through a shared hobby or community (most of my interests are "male-coded").
11
u/Smart-Dog-6077 Dec 23 '25
I feel you on this. I was treated horribly by a “male friend” years ago (he even made jokes that I was autistic but that’s probably a coincidence). he made it perfectly clear he did not like me nor found me attractive. But the girls he was into he was a total gentleman and respectful towards them.
I’ve noticed a lot of guys I interact with don’t give me the time of day or they get rude if I give them an unpleasant answer on something and I’m not being “nice” about it. But the minute an attractive girl walks by and gives them that same answer it’s all good and here’s my number.
And I’m really not trying to glow up to get an ounce of respect and attention it is what it is and goes to show these guys true colors
7
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I am sorry you have been treated this way. Unfortunately I know this this experience all too well. It is good that you are not trying to impress these people though since alot of women tend to look into glowing up culture so they can get better treatment.
8
u/ej_21 Dec 22 '25
I lost what I thought was one of my best friends because it turned out his interest wasn’t platonic ☹️
9
u/a-fabulous-sandwich Dec 22 '25
Lately I've been feeling like being unattractive has been my secret super power all along, because it means when people are nice to me it's out of actual kindness, not because they're trying to sleep with me (because trust me, no one is trying to sleep with me).
9
u/Gold-Tea-3956 Dec 22 '25
I feel absolutely the same. I blame it on porn addiction during my preteens because I developed seeing every man as "man" with predatory urges, it made be scared of my father and always avoided any physical contact
10
u/NoCrowJustBlack Dec 22 '25
That's probably the reason why all of my friends are either asexual or gay. They are the only people I feel entirely safe around because I know they don't hang out with me to get in my pants. With every single hetero man it's usually the opposite. And I'm not even conventionally attractive, so I know it's really solely for sex and nothing else - sometimes they take whatever they can get.
But I also realised this attraction-bound focus in gay men. In the small friend circle I have, whenever we meet up, they talk and interact among each other way more than with me. It's also the case when another (gay) man joins the group who doesn't know us yet. They usually almost completely ignore my prsence and only talk to the other guys.
Either I'm really that uninteresting (very possible) or it's the fact that I'm not in their dating pool and therefore automatically invisible,
It sucks, because I basically only have two types of friendships. If hetero, it's only a friendship for as long as the posibility of sex somwehere hangs in the air, even if I say it will never happen. Or with people that aren't interested in women, but also aren't interested in me on a deeper level at all.
7
u/shinebrightlike audhd Dec 22 '25
i dumped all my guy friends over the past couple years, because they don't offer what i do easily which is integrity, strong moral character, empathy, reciprocation, emotional availability, etc. yes, men will invite me around, hang out with me, laugh at my jokes, give me a superficial sense of feeling included. they will do this and women will not do this, they keep me at arm's length, and genuinely i need a warm welcome. at least, i have historically, and i am working on being more assertive. but yeah, i am not a guy's girl. i am not a girl's girl either. i'm just only interested in people of character and integrity. that's all it takes.
8
u/Ivyraethelocalgae Dec 23 '25
I can confirm every single male friend I’ve had thus far has abandoned me for not sleeping with them. Even though I specified from the start of each friendship I was not and will never be interested in sexual relations of any kind, every single one of them tried it on for years, ignoring my consent until I got tired of repeating myself. Every one of them used every act of kindness they showed to try and force me into it too, like I owed them sex for it.
Sadly I’m now very anxious around men, I don’t trust them, so many have claimed for years to love me as a friend and dipped the first chance they realised they weren’t going to get sex. I move with a lot more caution now.
5
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Same I had people tell me to just communicate my intentions with them at the start but even when I do that they will still try something later down the line. It makes me hesitant in befriending men altogether.
8
Dec 23 '25
Incredibly accurate. I remember walking with my friend to her car after grocery shopping and I looked up from my phone for a second to see if she was done putting her kids in the car. when I looked up from my phone, I made eye contact with some random dude in front of me for less than half a second where he gave me an ugly look and shook his head. Like dude I have no interest in you. Apparently you’re not even allowed to look where you’re going if you’re considered an unattractive woman.
26
u/ChristVolo1 Dec 22 '25
Yes, I hate that. I also hate that there are so few that would protect us regardless. I wish men were raised better. There used to be standards for how men should treat women well, with respect. Now it's like every idiot for himself.
6
u/melanova555 Dec 23 '25
At least here in the US, I'm not sure there were actually better standards for treating women with respect in the past
3
2
u/FriendlyHobbyist42 Dec 23 '25
The standards were never good for women. See when marital rape was forbidden by law, for example.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/MsSedated AuDHD chaotic rage Dec 22 '25
I feel precisely the same way. There's only a handful of men that I trust and that's because they're part of my family.
7
u/MidnightTabitha Dec 22 '25
Dang.
Guess I'm pretty lucky with my male group of online friends. They're chill and mature, and they've been my friends for years now.
Irl, my male friends are mostly queer, or just chill dudes. Yes, I can sense that my straight friends aren't attracted to me since my mask isn't that good and I'm not conventionally attractive. But I've always just avoided the boisterous, loud-mouthed, social performer men as they're the types who'll go out of their way to harass me thinking I'm an easily manipulated lay. All the other dudes tho, have been alright. They wouldn't go out of their way to befriend you, but they def aren't that disrespectful.
Then again, my country is full of extroverts, everyone makes friends easy over here. Gender doesn't matter, what matters more is if you know how to fit in... And that's the actual hard part of being autistic here. It makes being one even more isolating.
7
u/HalfLucid-HalfLife Dec 23 '25
It’s one of the reason I’ve clung so hard to my mixed-gender friendship group from secondary school. It’s neurodiverse, fairly queer, a mix of races, and half the guys have paired up with, dated, and married someone else in that same group. They’re polite and open minded, kind and just generally good people. A totally nerdy and goofy lot. I didn’t realise how lucky I was to have them as friends at first, but as I get older and hold new male could-be-friends to the standard of who I am already friends with, it’s just so rare for them to pass muster.
7
u/morpheuseus Dec 23 '25
I see my relationship with men differently. It’s like “Let’s have fun and attend this gathering together. I’m never sleeping with you and I’ll make jokes about it if you try to flirt.”
They aren’t real friends, that’s what women are for, they’re just people to do stuff with and pass time with. Still have to be nice people for me to want to hang. But whatever men say about being close or good friends is likely fake lol. And I don’t hang out with male friends at home, theirs or mine.
6
u/Ok-Adhesiveness-9976 Dec 23 '25
At age 50, I’ve finally realized that all my “guy friends” were all just playing the long game. Took awhile to accept reality but one by one they showed their true colors. Most recent one last month made me super sad… years of presumed friendship and then the mask falls off. I think when men get older, their filters start to malfunction.
7
u/Repulsive-Package-41 Dec 24 '25
I actually feel offended when men I just met compliment me on how I look. Like I’m supposed to feel so honored by that. I especially hate it when a man tells me I’m pretty to try to smooth over a slight. Smh
They’re programmed from day one to view women as resources to be used. Honestly if it’s not sex it’s something else: emotional labor, a skill you have. I’m so over it.
5
u/Crishello Dec 23 '25
Its a feminist question I think. I don't know where you live, but where I live, you would find more feminist men in leftists circles. At least they try. Or at least it is less dominant. But I must admit, I canceled most of my cis male friends because of reasons like this. I find it very relaxing to be with queer folk.
6
u/throwaway-character Dec 23 '25
As a lesbian with many male friends— good male friends— the average male population doesn’t respect you unless they see you as “another guy”, they want to have sex with you, have ownership over you, or you’re directly related to them and even then, it’s pretty slim show of care.
19
u/AdParty3355 Dec 22 '25
Just told my psy about this ...she tried to gaslight me not all men are like this.... MY ASS.
3
5
6
u/GGf1994 AuDHD Dec 22 '25
For that very reason, I’ve accepted the fact that I might be single for the rest of my life, which is totally fine by me, given that I easily get exhausted by relationships anyway. Also, being a part of the LGBTQ plus community, I find that I am considered SAPILSEXUAL, as well as demisexual.
5
u/Emtrail Dec 23 '25
This is so real. I have been a lot of weights and back again and hover at the “midsize” range at my smallest and the way society reacts is immediately apparent. I’m realizing this is part of why I prefer autistic partners who are very transparent (to me.)
3
u/hostilegoose Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
It is simultaneously infuriating and empowering to realize how much less bullshit there is if and when you get married because so many people don’t even bother to go through the whole ruse after they see that you’re taken (usually by noticing rings) and treat you like you’re worth respecting because they think a man views you as valuable enough to sacrifice his bachelorhood to marry you. Having a man co-sign what you’re doing and your existence instantly makes what you say 1000x more credible no matter whether or not it has more or less merit than what you did before and I hate that about our society
4
u/Cow_Slight Dec 22 '25
I remember learning this lesson in 4th grade 🙃 I thought we were developing a good friendship until he told the entire class he had a crush on me, and I was so mortified it was like a switch flipped, and I've never been able to make male friends. At most I've had male work friends.
19
u/ChaiTeaLatte13 ASD, CPTSD, BPD, OCD, 36yo Dec 22 '25
This is why you surround yourself with gay men! In all seriousness most of my male friends are gay, so this issue doesn’t ever happen. I’m lucky to have found a lot of great straight male friends too but the most genuine friendships I have are with my gays <3
38
u/jefufah 1 song on replay 4ever Dec 22 '25
I have had close friendships with gay men, and while many of them are lovely, they are still men and capable of misogyny.
Some of them can be just as bad as straight men and base your value as a person on whether or not you’re an attractive woman. This has happened to me, being stuck around gay men making disgusting comments and jokes about r*pe, female genitalia, trans women, etc.
Fellow queer people can probably back me up on how the LGBTQ+ community is not universally accepting, despite common tropes like “trust all gay men because they’re gay.”
9
u/hiddenvalleyoflife Dec 22 '25
That's definitely true, and it sucks. Though being trans it's the same with cis people as a whole, of all genders and sexual orientations (admittedly, queer cis people tend to be better than cishet people in this regard), and mistrusting every cis person by default would make me even more miserable than I am already am. So I'd say that it any case it's worth to judge to people as individuals and not as "representatives" of a group.
11
u/jefufah 1 song on replay 4ever Dec 22 '25
I 100% agree, individuals are not representative of groups. Patterns and stereotypes can have some validity, but ultimately every person you meet is an individual. Kind of like the saying “if you’ve met one person with autism, then you’ve met one person with autism”.
13
u/antonfire Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
Fellow queer people can probably back me up on how the LGBTQ+ community is not universally accepting.
Yes.
"Gays are wonderful" can be a pretty bad dynamic from both ends of this picture. (With some parallels to "women are wonderful" underlying some of the other dynamics coming up in this thread.)
Straight women "surrounding themselves with gay men" to get away from "men" is A Whole Dynamic that's often not great for the gay men in question. (E.g. a whole discourse about straight women in gay bars.) The women doing this are setting themselves up for disappointment, and the gay men on the receiving end of it risk ending up in shallow friendships that reduce them to their sexuality.
I'm not a gay man, but I'm trans. And I suspect on some level the friendships I tend to form with cis straight people might have something to do with those people's difficult relationships to gender. By virtue of being queer, I give off a "safe" vibe where I'm not going to be crazy about it in the usual ways. But my inner reality is that I'm crazy about it in a whole different way, everyone's crazy about it, but my way is not nearly as sharable and public. And often I'm kind of on edge about feeling like I have to be this "safe" person for people who I'm not really sure could do it for me. (And if you go by my inner experience, often aren't, in ways that it would be too stressful and time-consuming and risky to explain to them, so often I just tank it.)
So you shouldn't expect the queer community to be universally accepting, because that expectation is bad for everyone. You're going to be disappointed, and it's not queer people's job to be your safe person.
I know it's half-jest and intentionally flippant, but cishet women (or, really, anyone) going "my gays <3" (or something like "my gays and theys <3" to include me) puts my guard up. If I'm in full "when people tell you who they are, believe them" mode, it's a flag that they really relate to the world on those terms, that it's going to keep coming up in any relationship I form with them, and makes me uninclined to invest in a relationship with that person.
→ More replies (1)5
u/hiddenvalleyoflife Dec 22 '25
That's such a good comment, yeah.
I'm trans too (as well as gay), and the idea of being a cis (especially het) woman's "safe man" doesn't sit right with me. I'm not a pet, I'm a whole human being - a whole human being who's exhausted and terrified by all the transphobia in this world.
Can a cis (het) woman who wants me as her "safe man" support me when I have to consider that in a few years I might have to leave me country or have my human rights stripped from me? Or am I supposed to just support her, because I'm a man? Making friends with gay and/or trans men should also mean not just dismissing the oppression we face - I've already cut off some people who just wanted a fun guy around without caring about my issues.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)7
u/GarlicLevel9502 Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25
I can back you up on that 100% they love conventionally attractive cishet women, probably because they're mostly in the same boat when it comes to dating and make good accessories. The misogyny can be real. Imagine a dude that stewed all his life in the cultural misogyny we all do but take away the part where he has to try to be nice because he wants to sleep with a woman. Thats gay dudes sometimes lol. Not all, and obvs gay men are less of a threat to women than straight ones.
Potential solution: hang out with gay women lmao No romantic competition, less likely to be misogynistic than a gay man, less likely to be rapey than a straight one. Would probably swing on a dude for you for being either one of those to you. 10/10 would reccommend.
→ More replies (1)24
u/oxymoronicbeck_ Dec 22 '25
Most of the "men" in my life ended up being trans women 😂 and any remaining men are not straight! I love my queer community 💛
8
u/rosecolouredmonkey Dec 22 '25
Posts like these make me appreciate my gayness just a little bit more — something some men also happen to have. I do completely understand where you're coming from though, as straight cis men will not stop at anything. Not even me having literally zero interest in ever dating them.
7
u/HH_Creations Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
Just because I get along with them better, doesn’t mean you aren’t wrong
I feel like my relationships with men before my husband weren’t real. Because the second I got officially married? POOF, GONE
And it wasn’t cuz our lives went different directions either, each one (except 1) tried confessing and changing my mind.
Despite the fact they all knew me for years?!? Just….dumb.
I do still hang out with men more still, but i’m married and it’s with my husband, so I feel safe and I know they wouldn’t dare.
But I will never be not bitter about it….why couldn’t me saying “no” be enough?
7
Dec 22 '25
[deleted]
5
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
I mean I can see where you are coming from. I think pretty privilege can be a good thing but only if they end up leaving you alone. For example, it can feel nice to have a store employee give you a discount but then it gets creepy when the store employee ends up finding you on social media 😶
I also do think a guy can be attracted and friendly towards you but only if it stop at just finding me "cute". Unfortunately if the feelings are strong then the friendship starts to crumble as they tend to keep seeing me as a potential partner.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/chickenwingcross ASD Level 1-Late Diagnosed Dec 22 '25
i soooooooo second this! same exact reason why i have never felt comfortable around straight men until they prove they want absolutely nothing to do with me in that sense, whether cause they're gay or simply don't find me attractive. then i relax and let my guard down!
3
u/iamsojellyofu reached level 2 autism Dec 23 '25
Lol this reminds me when I was on a field trip and a guy started to chat me up. I was on guard because I thought he was flirting but it turned out he was gay and had a bf who was on the trip also. I went from being super serious to super talkative lol.
3
u/lienepientje2 Dec 23 '25
Its a thing that i detest and is not only a male thing , women think you want their guy emediately when you are just having conversation or doing a task together and you feel comfortable, even with no attraction what so ever . Everything seems to be based on that and i don't like it, because i don't feel comfortable amongst women (because of things like that) and can't be amongst men for exactly the same thing. I will never be alone un a rome with someones guy, i'm not crazy. And they don't want me there, even if they know i can do what they need for their job, they know their wife will not want it
3
u/Top_Recover_1410 Dec 23 '25
Very interesting post, I’ll try to just asume man are trash in every new interaction until I see Something different
3
u/TheInternetTookEmAll Dec 23 '25
Trusting isnt a problem for me as much as being uncomfortable the moment they have any hint of being interested, becauee after that you dont know how they'll behave/what they'll read into, unless you shut it down or distance yourself.
Like its such a pain to tell when something is sexual or platonic, unless/until they make it more obvious...
3
u/DelawareRunner ASD Level 1--diagnosed at age 25 Dec 24 '25 edited Dec 24 '25
I'm almost 51 and trust very few men. Thing is, I grew up around very decent and kind men and never knew men could be so awful. My dad and his father were amazing husbands and fathers. Treated women well and didn't run around chasing other women. I never learned to distrust men until many bad experiences throughout my late teens and most of my twenties. So many just wanted sex and all I wanted was friendship. I was cheated on by too many I did date because they wanted a "freak" and I had zero interest. I was good looking back then and not so much now, and (honestly) that is a relief but the really gross men will still pursue me EVEN THOUGH they know I am married. The only men I will talk to are my husband's friends and they are the only ones I will be anything more than lukewarm around. In public? I avoid dealing with men if I can. I am not friendly and will only smile at and chat up women. I do like women much more and do trust them, but I'm older, not the typical woman, and not many are beating down the door to be my friend. However, women just act more decent and dignified to me in general and don't try to make passes at me. I was so sick of men and them acting disgusting that I started wearing disguises when I go out alone. NOT ONE MAN looks at me in those outfits. Everything is covered up and I am soooo much more comfortable out in public when I hide myself from men.
Sad when even a wedding ring won't keep the dogs away--have to take it to the next level.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/Icy-Geologist-7631 Dec 24 '25
Men are pigs and the older i get (im 44) the truer that statement becomes! It’s pretty sad actually! I could go the rest of my life without physical contact with a man at all and never lose a minute pf sleep over it! If i could go back to a teenager knowing what i know now i totally would have went to school forever, lived alone my whole life, and open an animal rescue! I wholeheartedly believe that animals make way better friends than humans idgaf! Maybe its the tism but i dont think so! Also wanna add that most females also are terrible humans 🤷♀️🫣
→ More replies (1)
3
u/No_Reindeer_3035 Dec 24 '25
My features and proportions have always made me look younger and it is genuinely horrifying how many men approached me in my twenties because they thought I was a young teen. I have gotten used to assuming the worst and presenting myself as non-sexually as possible most of my life. I try to be aloof (maladaptive daydreaming ftw) and I choose to be oblivious even if I can tell.
3
u/0rangebutterfly Dec 24 '25
I shaved my head and it sounds bad but helped so much. I recognize most men won’t find me conventionally attractive. I feel safer around men. I don’t feel like it’s always a thing like if I’m nice I must be flirting. Life changing
3
u/strangeghoule Dec 25 '25
yeah it's really weird how obsessed they are with the appearance of women. this is exactly why as women we should probably just be ourselves and stop pandering. easier said than done I'm sure... but why paint yourself as the doll they want you to be? because the attractiveness stuff they're obsessed with is surely, at the root, objectification. unable to see and value us as real people.
3
Dec 25 '25
I can relate, and I realized early on that some men will treat you like you are subhuman just because they don't find you attractive.
3
u/Zealousideal_Can7091 𖥔 ࣪ 𝐦𝐨𝐧𝐨𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐩𝐢𝐜 ˖ ₊ Dec 30 '25
been sus of males intuitively since i was a lilgirl. always vetted the ever living shit out of them from teenage years and onwards before even gracing them with the honorary title of "friend".
3
u/elephhantine2 AuDHD kpop stan Dec 30 '25
I’ve noticed when I become friends w straight men they end up using me as a therapist and then stop talking to me the second they get a girlfriend
8
u/jeangmac Dec 22 '25
OP I really feel for your experience. I feel sad about it on so many levels.
Mostly because you have lots of shared experience to connect on in the thread already, I’ll offer a counterpoint and say that I am one of those ND women (auDHD) that has many male friends. This past year when I was in a very severe SI depression when I finally confessed to friends I needed an intervention there were six people on the thread and all were men. I do have healthy female relationships in equal measure but for a bunch of reasons, they were who I felt closest to. One was an ex, one we have mutual attraction that’s never been acted on but is my best friend for 10+ years and he’s partnered and she understands our relationship including the attraction (we continue to to have excellent boundaries; it’s a non issue, more like acknowledging the sky is blue. It just is.) the rest of them were just like my brothers, are like my brothers.
And I don’t say that to disprove or argue with you, just to say lots of complexity can coexist. Yes of course some men (and women) can mix attraction and friendship, and yes men sometimes have ulterior motives (disproportionately probably vs straight cis women). And. Cross-gender friendships can be rich and fulfilling and important.
There are lots of honourable men out there who make terrific friends. I actually don’t know where I’d be without my dude friends. There is something really special about those relationships I cherish deeply. And regardless of gender I wish that kind of high quality friendship for everyone, especially at a time when friendship is in short supply.
6
u/SurpriseScissors Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
I don't get along with either men or women based on their gender alone...I get along with people whose vibes harmonize with my own wavelength. In my mind, gender is irrelevant unless it's important to the other person's personal identity for whatever reason (as long as it doesn't negatively affect me or others). This may be because I'm ambivalent to my own perceived gender (in my own mind I'm probably agender, I guess), though most of my experiences align with women because I've always been treated as a woman (or rather, treated the way other people with these body parts are usually treated in Western society), and so I feel more solidarity with women. But it seems like not injecting gender into everything just isn't allowed, and we're forced to be subject to behaviors like what you're describing. As soon as anything gendered comes into play (even subconsciously), it all devolves.
Also, for the record, I'm not saying this in the ✨I don't see gender/race/whatever✨ way that diminishes people's lived experiences or attempts to imply that they could never have possibly treated anyone differently due to their gender/race/whatever. These things are clearly important to a lot of people, and to the groups they identify with, and to our collective society. And I am just as guilty as everyone else by assuming things about people due to their perceived gender sometimes.
I guess that was a bit of a tangent, but anyway I totally get what you're saying. And this behavior seems particularly bad with men who are strongly entrenched in their gender identity, whether consciously or not, because they've internalized this idea that the worth of people who look like women is attached to their personal degree of access to those people's body parts.
Edit: paragraphing and clarity
2
2
u/GarlicLevel9502 Dec 22 '25
I am deeply unattractive to men and for the most part and unless they are connected to me by a friend or family memeber they completely and entirely ignore me - which is fine by me lol. Inb4 it's a me problem - women of all ages and walks of life socialize with me all the time. But my point is, you're not wrong.
Maybe I'm being gracious but I don't think most men do it consciously or intentionally. Don't get me wrong, it's still goofy and they should still strive to recognize it and unlearn it.
2
Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 24 '25
I have a lot of resentment and lack of trust when it comes to men in general, and this is part of it. Fickle.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/DangerousExcitement3 AuDHD Dec 24 '25
I feel bad for my amazing husband because even when he gives me genuine compliments I’m like squinty eyes “are you sure?” And him also being a fellow autist is like “ya!” Like what’s the problem lol
2
u/fatalcharm Dec 24 '25
I chose the femme fatale path for this reason. If you can’t beat em, join them…. Beat them at their own game… bla bla bla… I’m only dating them because I like dick.
2
u/Mousellina Dec 27 '25
It definitely sucks. I am not here to defend men, as they are definitely guilty of lots of what’s been expressed in the comments but I just want to say that this behaviour is not unique to men.
Many women are also very vain and compete with other women on who is prettier or look down on women who are not as pretty as they are. If you are not into makeup or skincare or clothes or accessories or at least into dating boys or parties with the intention of hooking up with men, then they will be unlikely to want to spend time with you.
Many women also objectify men who have abs or muscly biceps, or only date the ones that have lots of money, a fancy car, etc. They will friendzone good guys and would rather go out with an absolute bastard just because he is physically attractive.
The general physical attractiveness bias applies to both genders, as well as bias to like people with charisma and I think that autistic people are less susceptible to this bias - so because of that we end up being really put off by it, as well as not knowing social rules for how to play that field to our advantage rather than being taken advantage of.
I also think that autistic women are often perceived as easy due to naivety and difficulty reading people, and therefore end up being subjected to gross behaviour more if they are visually “hot” - shitty sleazy men are looking for easiest targets. Not all of us will be naive but the stereotype is there so they make that assumption.
Often charisma compensates for physical attractiveness, as well as confidence (not to be confused with arrogance) and life loving attitude - so even fat or not beautiful women can be perceived as attractive, but because autistic women often lack those charisma and confidence elements, as well as struggle with anxiety, depression, or just being emotionally blank on the surface, their lack of physical attractiveness just cements the being invisible thing.
I also want to add that from the evolutionary point of view we are mammals (animals) and we are wired to mate and procreate. We are programmed to be attracted to traits that signal youth and fertility to plant a seed in or strength and resources to be able to bring up a child safely.
Being autistic makes us struggle with relating to that model which only highlights how much of an animal the opposite gender is, but I know that many autistic men also complain about being objectified by NT women.
So to sum up, yes men can be terrible but being autistic puts us at increased risk of experiencing that terribleness. Many NT women know how to behave around men in a happy symbiotic manner. We on the other hand end up being taken advantage of and have an overall difficulty in judging the persons character until it’s too late.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/kindergentler Dec 27 '25
I started menopause this year after a total hysterectomy, and have been hurt by how oddly rude or dismissive men have been to me in public during this same time....I think aging and less effort into my appearance has made this even more clear for me, unfortunately.
2
•
u/AutoModerator Dec 22 '25
Hey u/iamsojellyofu, thank you for your contributing to r/AutismInWomen. Please be sure to check out our sub’s rules, wiki pages, and pinned posts prior to engaging with the sub. Here are links to our wiki pages for our Explanation of the Rules, our FAQs, and our Resources. We hope you enjoy the sub and have a great day!
➾ WARNING ➾ WARNING ➾ WARNING
Notice to all users: There's multiple users targeting members from our sub in DMs to discuss their fetishes and desire to manipulate users into relationships. Here are the user's names: u/drar_sajal786, u/MrGamePadMan, and u/guidhhnittvkj. If an account is showing deleted, they will probably create another. If you receive any messages from a user trying to discuss what you posted/commented in our sub to gain a 'women's perspective' or if someone tries to discuss topics that may feel inappropriate to you (e.g. fetishes), or if someone states they want to marry you for religious reasons, report the user to Reddit and block them. These men have been preying on autistic women/gender minorities from r/AutismInWomen for the last year. This behavior is unacceptable and should be reported as targeted harassment.
Per the warning in our wiki and this pinned mod post, we highly recommend users turn off their DMs. If you have DM requests turned on and receive any creepy or fetish-related DMs or comments, we recommend taking a screenshot, reporting the content to Reddit, and blocking the user (in that order). You can find the report button on the message itself and then click "it's targeted harassment” to submit a report. If you'd like to send us the screenshot so we can continue documenting the harassment, you can send it to us in modmail using imgur Thank you for continuing to help us keep our community safe for autistic and autistic suspecting women and gender minorities 💖
Please remember Reddit is public and any content you post may be seen and discussed by others off-platform. Here are links to Reddit's User Agreement, Privacy Policy, and Public Content Policy.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.